What is the purpose of this website?
December 27th, 2008 by ikallicrates1913I’ve visited other sites for the suicidal. They attract mostly teenagers, who say they want to kill themselves because their parents won’t let them get their tongues pierced, or because they are – or think they are – gay.
Their posts usually get a lot of responses. Some urge them to stop whining about suicide and just do it, and I can understand why. Not being allowed to get your tongue pierced isn’t the worst thing that can happen. Even being gay is not necessarily a tragedy.
But most of the responders try to be sympathetic. They tell the kids that, however terrible their problems may seem to them, they aren’t unusual. They’re just part of growing up. Eventually things will get better.
Of course they’re wrong.
Telling these kids to stop whining and just do it, and telling them not to kill themselves because eventually things will get better – both assume these kids are too wrapped up in themselves to know what real trouble is. But those of us who read their posts don’t know the full story. Perhaps there are real problems in these kids’ lives, and they complain about not being able to get their tongues pierced because they can’t talk about what’s really bothering them. And sometimes, for kids like Matthew Shephard, being gay really is a tragedy.
The sympathetic and unsympathetic responses are both wrong because we Americans don’t know how to respond to others, how to put ourselves in the other person’s place. We are taught that we’re on our own, and shouldn’t expect to rely on our family, our neighbors or our government. If others suffer, that’s their problem, not ours. If we suffer, it’s our own fault and of no concern to anyone else. That’s why, if and when we do try to empathize with others, our efforts are usually clumsy and inappropriate.
But I don’t see any responses, sympathetic or not, to the posts on this website. Perhaps that’s because the suffering these posts describe is too obviously real to be pigeonholed as mere adolescent angst. We Americans don’t deal well with reality.
I see links on the right to ‘mental health resources’ for ‘those in need’. Is that the purpose of this website? They’re not what I need. Like most ‘mental health professionals’, the people who set up these links assume that happiness is the norm and unhappiness an aberration, so that depression can only be a mental health problem. But can anyone look at this world and see what we’ve done to it – and to ourselves – and not be depressed?
Freud claimed that suicides kill themselves only because they cannot, or will not, kill the people they really want to kill. Some people claim to find this hard to understand, but in the ancient world everyone understood it. Slaves killed themselves to protest, in the only way they could, the cruelty of their masters. Roman senators killed themselves to protest, in the only way they could, the corruption of the Caesars. The early Christian saints welcomed martyrdom, but today people calling themselves Christians claim that ‘suicide bombers’ who die martyrs for Islam are either insane, or evil, or both. We Americans don’t deal well with a reality that is driving more and more people to suicide.
I could go on, if I thought anyone was interested. Is anyone interested in a dialogue? I know it wouldn’t change anything, but it would kill time.
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January 6th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
You make an interesting point, but as a mental health specialist (sorry!) who has dealt with many suicidal people in the past (and I have gone through a rough life myself) I can say that I couldn’t disagree with you more.
When you said, “That’s why, if and when we do try to empathize with others, our efforts are usually clumsy and inappropriate,” I was a bit confused. Could you perhaps elaborate? Maybe give examples? If you are dealing with professionals, then there is no such thing as clumsy efforts. If you are dealing with people who genuinely care and put forth an effort to help their fellow man, I do not see how this is inappropriate. This also ties to what you said about happiness being assumed the norm. Life is not a journey to be crossed alone, it is to be shared with the ones you love. People help other people to accomplish things.
I am not saying that only morally good/superior counselors are only lecturing morally gray/evil suicidal people or mentally ill ones. With the world today, I very much agree that culture, politics, etc, has a focus on us and changes the way we look at things. But’s that’s all I can agree with you on. Where do you get your facts that Americans (or forget just in the context of the U.S. Let’s take it worldwide, it’s all the same, we are all humans together) don’t deal with with reality, or are taught that every man is for himself? You cannot just assume that things are in turmoil, because truthfully they aren’t. Sure, the world has problems, but suicide and mental health, while still important, are not on the forefront. We can’t let the world get the best of us. We can’t all let the burdens of the very fabric of existence and past mistakes fall on us. How could anyone live like that?
The real problem is that not enough teenagers seek help before they commit suicide. Maybe they don’t share their feelings with their parents, maybe they are confused morally. Adults today might not want to be called crazy and seek help either. But we do know for a fact is that there is a lot of suicides due to them not seeking resources to cope with their problems. This problem is not the government’s, the world’s, history’s, or heck, even the people who abused the “sucidee” if there was one, it is the person who commited/want to commit the suicide. They need to find inner strength to tell the police. Tell their parents. When you’re an adult, talk to friends or loved ones. Seek counseling, therapy, do something. If they wanted to live, they would have put forth an effort to do so. But nobody is on their own, nor is this “tough love” for making hard choices. We all work together to help each other. I try to help people understand that.
We can argue about religion and all things like that with morals and how things should/could be this way or that way. Here is how I look at the world: In a neutral, yet positive, way. How could one say that happiness is not normal? Honestly, I don’t know how ANYONE, even the most insane of chaotic murderers would not live like that. They take pleasure and happiness in, well, murdering. Everyone has to have some form of happiness. Everyone. In my opinion, depression is something that always exists within us, it can’t be cured completely because it’s not a sickness. It’s a normal part of us, just as natural as breathing and eating. But it can be worked on to let happiness have more power than depression.
If you let yourself succumb to depression, then you are giving up. Forget about religion and what people tell you is right. Do what you think is right, don’t listen to Freud, Christians, slaves, etc, unless you firmly believe you want to. Choices are all yours to make, that’s a simple fact. But what’s also a fact is that you don’t have to let unhappiness take over your life.
You have, from what I can see, lost your hope and your meaning. Don’t give up hope. With no hope, there is no use even acknowledging these problems you talk about in this Earth. You don’t seem to have any *hope* to want to fix these problems, and instead seem to want to just let the worries get the best of you. But you’re not alone. Please, I implore you. Talk to someone. Talk to a friend, find a good therapist, maybe even explore new things in life. I know you did not fully write your post with talking about yourself; you put everything in a more broader view. But I’m sure you’d much rather talk about you then the problems of the Earth which we can’t do anything about.
What’s the purpose of the website? I think it’s to find some meaning within your life. To show that you manner. To show we’re all together. To show happiness means something. I think everyone can agree that they’d like to be happy. All it takes is to want to be happy.
February 4th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Even if happiness is just “the norm” and being depressed these days really is what should be considered normal and even “sane”, isn’t it better to be happy, even if that means that you’re not feeling what you should?
February 13th, 2009 at 2:05 am
But not all the people who respond feel that they are wrapped up in them selves, and hell, maybe they ARE.
February 17th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Another of the purposes of this website is to allow people to tell their story. Sometimes getting those feelings out can help, if only for a while at least.
April 6th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
i was just about to try to kill myself or suicide to make it sound more decent lol or whatsoever and so i came in this site and read peoples stories and so i thought maybe i could right my own and i was on the middle of my story when i deleted it.. the urge of killing myself is gone.. so i guess that is the purpose i have gotten out what is in my chest though no one ever read, cause i didnt continue to post,but then atleast i realized how it is to still be here yey! lmao well thats for me..
*oh gotta go date my babygirls! im 22 i have 6 yr old twin babygirls =) yes i got pregnant at an early age of 15 *wink* but never regreted and its not the reason of my suicidal, its the reason why im still living.. confused? me too *wink*
June 26th, 2009 at 6:23 am
We need to face reality. These types of responses to people with suicidal thoughts such as ” you are only going through a phase” sometimes can add fuel to the fire. we need to be better active listeners, understanding what the other person is telling us. I am ready for interaction.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:16 am
oh its just a phase..itll be over soon…you have to want to be happy…your obviously doing this for attention….noone really wants to DIE…ha. thigs DONT get better. when i try to think positive, it makes me more depressed, because i know the key to happiness, is stupidity. And if one more person tells me to smile i think imma kill something.
there are people that care. but there nowhere to be found.
there are officials who know what their talking about and really try to help…but ive never even heard of one. and damn sure never met one.
you want a happily ever after?? go to disney world.
February 16th, 2011 at 3:03 am
This is a REALLY old post.
I love this post. Sure, some points are arguable, but it really should be published in a newspaper.
Society is too much about individuals and not enough about families. All too often people are labeled mentally ill when all they need is companionship, money, and REAL assistance from others. Just saying “it’ll be okay” can only go so far. But if you give someone some money, teach them a skill, find them a job/college/place to live they want, help them get medical insurance, and be their friend, that will help them so much more. What people need more than anything is REAL, tangible help, which is so hard to find these days. The government puts up so much red tape around assistance, that if you are physically disabled or brain-damaged, you will get hell.
Sure, many people have mental problems, but many others could be saved if only they are given the real help they need.
I have to agree with both ikallicrates1913 and Dontgiveuphope to some extent. To see the world in one way or another would be too closed minded. The world is not dark and bleak nor is it butterflies and rainbows. We all have our own choice, but too many people ARE alone. And that’s a major problem we have to solve. Sure, ikallicrates1913′s entry generalizes things a bit too much, but Dontgiveuphope seems to as well. But you really tore down ikallicrates1913′s nice post there, Dontgiveuphope — I don’t appreciate it. There is truth to both posts, and I refuse to succumb to any one idea.
There are many who go in and out of hospitals like crazy. And they never get “cured”. Like I said before, people need REAL help. Not a five-second check-up. They need a personal doctor/therapist to be with them all the way. Good therapists cost $$$, and many people don’t have $$$.
I agree with you, ikallicrates1913, on one thing especially: Real change needs to happen. Not an idea of change, but REAL change.
February 16th, 2011 at 3:31 am
@NeverKnown: pretty much ditto/agree with what you said. thank you as well for digging this old thread (this is what I mean by my new-created thread of “Suggested Readings”,..due to a simple reason that good ‘enlightening’ posts like this simply got ‘drowned’ deeper into the shadow due to the layout nature of this otherwise great website).
but getting back to your points again, I’d highly suggest you doing this:
1. Google “Social scientists build case for ‘survival of the kindest’”, and just click on the first link, and read it.
2. as for the REAL change, this might be a really good ‘spark’ for further thoughts and discussions, but it does bring HOPE, at least to me: Google “Zeitgeist Moving Forward”, and just click on the first Youtube link and watch the documentary.
I’m sorry I don’t want to post the URLs links, because strangely this site would view it as ‘pending’ or ‘spam’ sort of.
February 16th, 2011 at 3:47 am
@niki
Okay. Now I understand what your “suggested readings” is about. That’s really a great idea! Too bad the Admin doesn’t show up much. You could email them: the.suicide.project@gmail.com
1. I read the article. It’s very interesting.
It reminds me of how students are pushed to do volunteer work for “the greater good” when in reality, they’re just trying to get into a good college “and thus raise in status”… Not very fair for those who can’t spare the time/money/transportation for volunteer work.
But, it’s also a nice idea. The fact that the kind tend to survive… wouldn’t the world gradually become a better place? But so many kind people show up here, saying they want to die… I wish that Survival of the Kindest always held true, but that’s not always the case.
2. I tried to view the Zeitgeist Moving Forward video earlier, but I have dial-up internet.
Maybe I’ll see it the next time I go to the library or something.
Yeah, the website’s weird like that. Sometimes url links work, sometimes they don’t.
February 16th, 2011 at 4:01 am
@niki
Sorry if this double-posts, but I am sick of waiting for moderation.
Okay. Now I understand what your “suggested readings” is about. That’s really a great idea! Too bad the Admin doesn’t show up much. You could email them: the(dot)suicide(dot)project(at)gmail(dot)com
1. I read the article. It’s very interesting.
It reminds me of how students are pushed to do volunteer work for “the greater good” when in reality, they’re just trying to get into a good college “and thus raise in status”… Not very fair for those who can’t spare the time/money/transportation for volunteer work.
But, it’s also a nice idea. The fact that the kind tend to survive… wouldn’t the world gradually become a better place? But so many kind people show up here, saying they want to die… I wish that Survival of the Kindest always held true, but that’s not always the case.
2. I tried to view the Zeitgeist Moving Forward video earlier, but I have dial-up internet.
Maybe I’ll see it the next time I go to the library or something.
Yeah, the website’s weird like that. Sometimes url links work, sometimes they don’t.
May 26th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Do you want HARDCORE change, Google “Jonathan Adampants” and watch his videos.