I have just spent the last week or so reading through the posts and responses on this site. Firstly, there is are two huge differences involved with suicidal people. One is outside influences that make a person so ‘depressed’ that they feel they can no longer live. In most cases, if you could rectify this persons problems, say for instance, give them money, give them health, make that one person that they love love them back etc, then they would chose life over suicide. The second is the person who simply doesn’t care about the world, or it’s influences, you could offer this person all the money and relationships in the world and they would still want to kill themselves. It’s the world itself that they hate. Â These are very important factors to consider when a person is suicidal BEFORE YOU RESPOND TO THEM. I’m sorry for shouting that last point out, but it is so blatantly dangerous for people who are trying to do something good (and I commend you for trying, but this really isn’t about YOU, or YOU feeling good by doing good). Reading the responses to these posts has deeply saddened me, not because of the posts themselves but because of the responses and ‘advice’ that so many of you are giving. I know even by writing this post, hopefully getting through to those particular people, it wont get through to those, only to the ones who already know what I’m talking about. The rest of you are so BLIND and so wrapped up in your own self. This very site itself is a clear view on how ALONE most people are, and not because there are no voices in the dark, or no hands reaching out to help, there is no real understanding. I guess only the ones who feel like you can understand you. Yet, I have read countless responses of people saying ‘I felt just like you’ but to then proceed in saying how they got better and how they now see some point in living. DO ANYONE OF YOU REALISE HOW RIDICULOUS SAYING SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO SOMEONE TRULY SUICIDAL IS?? No, and that’s why the world is the way it is and that’s why suicide will NEVER be stopped (not in serious cases).
Like I said, there are those whose suicidal feelings are because of outside influences. These people ideally, want to live, but feel that they can’t. Kind words and similar stories might alleviate some of their pain and maybe even pull them through this harrowing time. But PLEASE PLEASE learn to spot when your kind words are going to help and not hinder, PLEASE learn this, it is vital. You could be doing more harm than good in most cases on here.Â
You wanna know how you can REALLY help someone that’s suicidal? It’s pretty simple really, lets face it, sharing your stories and offering kind words over the internet is pretty easy and kind of therapeutic for yourself isn’t it? Be honest. So if you really want to help someone (instead of just validating yourself) firstly, take time to read the post TWICE, leaving a few minutes inbetween (because as an outside observer I have noticed that about 95% of the responses on here don’t even really relate to the god damn post very well!). Understand and digest what that person is saying – which category are they in? Do they have outside influences that they need help with? Now here’s the helping bit (and believe me, this is the ONLY help they really want and need);
1) Physically give them what they need (give them a job, find them a job, donate money, pay a bill for them, be their ACTUAL friend (face to face), help them with the disabilities that their illness inflicts on them (do errands, clean their house) take them to the god damn cinema! Do what it is they are asking for! If you can’t do what it is they are asking for TRY TO FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN, maybe use your ‘communication skills’ to open up a charity dedicated to physically helping people who are suicidal due to their circumstances.
If you cannot do any of that then please GET OFF THIS SITE and stop preying on suicidal people because that’s exactly what you are doing. You are also ‘sick’ yourself. You are thriving on people’s pain to hide and validate your own.
Now; If the suicidal person does not have any outside influences affecting their situation, and they (for many many years) have felt that this world is an awful place to be, let me just guarantee you right now, they have not got here overnight and ‘without a fight’ FOR FUCKS SAKE YOU IGNORANT BUNCH OF PRICKS! (not all of you, a very small few of you are doing okay) just because you are ignorant does not make the person posting ignorant and that’s what you’re assuming. I cannot believe how insulted these poor bastards must feel when they pour their heart and soul into a post and then some idiot responds with insults wrapped up in ‘sweet comforting  words and advice’. Unless you have super human powers, there is no advice you can give to someone who sees the world entirely different than you do, so unless you give them your own heart, eyes and brain, there is not a lot you can do. You certainly cannot tell them that they just haven’t seen how good the world can be, and you certainly can’t (and shouldn’t) tell them to stay here when it is torturing them to be here. How highhanded of you all?  It’s like a sober person being at a hard core rave, wanting to leave and some raver on LSD is trying to show them a reason to stay and enjoy it – that in itself makes them want to leave more. The only people that can relate to those in that circumstance are the ones who feel the same and see the world the way that they do. So PLEASE
2) If you read a post that describes this, and those descriptions are NOT your view on the world then LEAVE IT ALONE, keep your own view to yourself! Do not feel sorry for that person. The only way you can help them is by offering to be their friend, tell them you will listen to everything they have to say and that you are interested in their views and that you promise not to subject your own views on the world onto them. The absolute BEST thing you can do for someone in this situation is to offer friendship until the end, however they choose to end it (if they do – not all do) and not judge them or try to talk them out of it, but wholeheartedly be there for them every step of the way.
If you cannot offer this then please GET OFF THIS SITE and go help someone else, the poor, or your local elderly folk. This is serious stuff here, it’s a persons life and death that’s happening here, not the samaritans! I am not saying that anyone on here trying to help in the wrong ways is a bad person, of course I see that you are trying to help in some way, but it is wrong. It’s exactly the same as handing someone a hammer to do the job of a screwdriver or someone not qualified to do heart surgery.Â
Those who are suicidal without any outside influences, the ones who view the world as very wrong, haven’t gotten here overnight, or in a matter of months. In most cases it goes way back to their childhood. They have more often than not tried very hard to fit in, to give life a go. They have no doubt looked into religion in the hope it can help them, and in nearly all cases, they have read all the self help books and ‘life changing’ books so they are probably more aware than you of all the sayings and tactics to see the world better. Do you really think that what you are saying is some revelation to them? You must do or you wouldn’t say it.Â
If you don’t believe me, please take some time to read back on all the seriously suicidal posts on here and read the responses and count how many of those people posting responded to those responses positively. Maybe you could come back and say for instance, okay 2 lives were saved out of 1000, but at least that’s 2 lives that were saved so we have done a good job. But how many lives were pushed by the responses? How many read those responses and went immediately and topped themselves? I feel sad reading the posts on here but reading most of the responses makes me feel like killing myself!
Please guys, really think before typing out response and ask yourself why you are here if you yourself are not suicidal, or you are not willing to physically get involved with these people in some way. If you have a deep need within yourself to get involved on here and the only way you have convinced yourself you can do that is from the comfort of your own home in your spare time, then at least offer you phone number to actually talk to them – if you can’t even manage that, and have convinced yourself that your wonderful skill of typing out kind words on a computer is your purpose in life then please, I am begging you, keep your own opinions to yourself and keep your kind words neutral.
22 comments
I wont name any names but there are a few people on here that respond to a lot of the posts that are put out, with absolute nonsense and they actively encourage others to do the same also. Not so long ago, someone published a post just telling everyone not to kill themselves because there’s always someone else who cares about them and all that nonsense – and obviously quite a few people took insult at that and said so, and so one of those useless do-gooders then encouraged that person to continue ‘helping’ – honestly, it’s a hopeless situation. But you are s o right when you say that those kind of people are just validating there own existence and they don’t care one iota if they harm in the process, they are blind to that. They want so desperately to help someone when they are simply not qualified to do so (in these cases) so you’re right they should put their efforts somewhere else instead.
I couldn’t have put it better myself!
Thing is, the world is full of idiots, to think that something as serious as suicide is gonna be free of em is wishful thinking!
Wow! I find it very difficult to read this post. You feel qualified to totally bash a very large group of people trying to do something good without regard to how this may affect them. You don’t believe any of these people understand what the’re doing, but you sure seem to believe you understand what everybody is doing and what everybody needs.
If you need a cause to validate your life, why not ***** at the people who simply post “yeah go ahead and do it if that’s how you feel.” Those are the one’s that can push someone over the edge. An attempt at something constructive is much more difficult than encouraging someone to kill themselves.
Did you actually read your post even once before you sent it!?
Many people write in hoping for a response that can help. You guys are putting suicidal people in one category, “hopeless” with no chance of return. Your just giving up on people and criticizing those who won’t. True in many cases people won’t return, but often even the “hopeless” can end up finding hope. Saying people are just trying to validate their existence by trying to help someone sounds like something out of punk rock. You usually here that kind of comment from people too lazy and/or hateful to bother helping anyone.
Often people want the back and forth communication. If they don’t want posts attempting to help them, they can delete it or just ignore it. You really think these posts are the ones that will push someone over the edge? Absurd!
I understand where there can be feelings that these posts are not sincere, and sometimes I’m sure they’re not, but you really need to think this out. And people are much more understanding, loving and sincere than you give them credit for. People often can understand how someone else is feeling. Maybe the circumstances are different, but once you’ve at stayed at the brink of suicide, often what ever the circumstances were no longer matter. Nothing at all matters except figuring out how to die. So past circumstances are not even in the thought pattern. And that is where there is the possibility of “knowing how you feel”. It is the ugliest place to ever be, and to be able to return can make someone, at least me, want to help people who are there or headed that way.
I started a project called Victory Over Violence 13 years ago because I didn’t want people to have to experience the violence and hopeless feelings I had gone through for 32 years. I don’t need to be kind to validate my life. That is my life and who I am. Sorry if that offends any of you.
If you don’t like positive responses, don’t keep reading them. You’re all entitled to your opinion, but realize this site isn’t just for you “experts”. It’s for all of us. And it really is sad that even in love you see ugliness.
I’m not sure of what any of your qualifications are, but you are saying that people are idiots and an ignorant bunch of pricks and not qualified if they try to help someone, and that they will push people over the edge. But the people that don’t try to help someone and therefore encourage suicide either are qualified or don’t need to be qualified. OK, that’s not ignorant.
Where does all of your righteousness and bitterness come from? NOT EVERYBODY WHO COMES HERE IS READY TO DIE OR NEEDS TO DIE. You need to have respect for that and quit trying to make this site a dieing ground. There are different aspects people want and need to discuss.
I would hate to think of my sister Sharon writing in prior to her suicide and her last response came from one of you. She didn’t need to die. I do understand how she felt.
John
John,
Thank you so much! Thanks!
Everyone here is entitled to their opinion and should not be bashed, attacked, persecuted or condemned for it. I do agree that some people come on this site sometimes only to leave a comment or two and then carry on with their happy lives as if it takes only one or two words to change a persons life. However, some of us ‘do gooders’ have built relationships with those on this site in need. Some of us have made a difference in the lives of persons here and have received gratification for it.
See it’s not about making yourself feel good by doing something good for someone (which is rather ridiculous), it’s about showing people that someone out their cares for them and reminding them about it, it’s about giving them hope when it is hard to find, it is about preventing them from doing something that may not be worth it in the end. It’s about truly and genuinely caring for someone’s life, one human to another. It’s about the sanctity of life and the care for humanity.
Some of these people here on this site may come here just so that someone can show them a different route. I know that we are in no way professionals, however we still have the RIGHT to feel for persons, to reach beyond the psychological aspects….to touch their hearts.
Honestly, if sometimes I may have offended the people on this site then I am sorry. I REALLY do care and would hate to push someone over the edge. That is not my intentions! Even so, i believe that I have helped countless people and I do not bask in it. Its not about me. It’s about them!….. THEM!
May peace be with you:)
Angel Of Light
Unity: I have read many of your posts (and there’s a lot of em) YOU’RE AN IDIOT.
UNITY YOU ARE A SELF RIGHTEOUS PR!CK
This really made me laugh. It’s funny how your post actually says that ‘not all’ and ‘a few of you are doing good’ etc but these people took it as personal insult as they must be be guilty ones! haha!
Also, unity: I don’t think he/she actually says that he knows everyone and want everyone’s needs are – just the same as you have no idea if he is qualified to know, he could be for all you know! He seems to be talking perfect sense to me, no insults unless you are doing the things that he says are useless or possibly harmful and they ARE, he is right, well according to me they are right. So you take you OWN advice and don’t speak on our behalf either.
Blimey calm down please guys, remember where you are for gods sake this is not facebook!
I think there is some anger in paulinanj post, but I don’t find it insulting, I think she/he could have worded it better but his point is something that ultimately I agree with. When someone is really suicidal (like I am) often people come on here talking about their own survival and their own faith/joy/ reason for living etc – such as Unity, whilst I am happy for you and your back story and that you are doing well, I do find myself skipping over your responses as I would find them insulting and annoying if it was me. Which is actually the reason I didn’t post my story on here, I am gagging to talk to someone about how I feel but I just can’t cope with someone like Unity talking to me. And it’s a public forum and a free world so I can’t stop those responses but it does put me off.
I agree with this post, I don’t see what the fuss is about. It might be bluntly put but there’s nothing bad about it. Theres nothing worse than reading someone’s heartfelt take on life only to see some pretentious w@nker tell them to ‘keep the faith’ and rabbiting on about how they found the faith! People are just too polite to tell them to sod off!
Some fools are so touchy!
AngelofLight = I’m sorry you have took offense to my post, but you are actually one of the few people whose posts I have found to be inspirational, I don’t see how I have upset you?
I have also not said at all in my post that offering kind words is not helpful at all, please read it again. I have said that talking about your take on the world in response to someone who sees it differently is useless and can actually be harmful, I stand by that. I did say that if all you can offer are words over the internet then please ensure they are neutral and supportive of the person in need – not ever did I say encourage them to kill themselves! But also, do not criticize their feelings – I know about this believe me, I cannot talk for everyone no, I never said that I could, but I KNOW that I can talk for a lot of people and that’s all that maters to me.
I too have a terribly horrific story and I too help people now in the same position, but I know from years of experience that most shrinks and most people whose heart is in the right place but not qualified to help can actually be a hindrance to the person getting better. Yes nice words are comforting but they generally are not help. And I did say that of course you could pull up examples of having said a handful of people from committing suicide but I also said how many have you unknowingly encouraged to kill themselves in the process.
AngelofLight: none of this was intended at you, I promise.
Unity: I didn’t read your response I’m sorry, I have no interest in what you have to say, I read some of your older stuff and I don’t like it. I’m sure you can help some people with your story but I feel very sure that you have annoyed far more.
Unity, you are such a hypocrite! You say that paulinanj ‘if you need a cause to vaildate your life’ how is one post validating his life?? YOU post on here all the time validating YOUR life. I can actually only read the first paragraph of your response cause it infuriates me and I’ve seen some of your others and so I know what to expect . . . just you going on and on about your own bloody life and imposing your self rightious views on others – just cause you made it through does not give you a god given right to help others! You are always attacking other people pn here if they don’t agree with you. Like you saying that people who agree with suicide are the bad ones – MY GOD you’re on a site that is for the purpose of suicidal people, so suicidal people are gonna respond to posts as well as publish posts you narrow minded knobhead! That in itself proves how stupid you are, you are trying to save the one person who has published a post and you bad mouth all the other equally needy people in the process of you being heard!!!
Very interesting thread this . . . .
I feel ‘paulinhej’ has made some rather compelling points here, maybe his passion overshadowed that. I am not directly involved (as I have never posted on here before this) and so I cannot feel insulted in any way. So objectively, I agree that he is right with what he says and I can only agree with that because my wife committed suicide last year and I have been suicidal since then. His publication does not worry or insult me, and he is trying to talk on behalf of suicidal people yes? That’s his only concern from my understanding, and not whether he insults the ‘helpers’ along the way.
However, he seems to have insulted a few of you, but then apologized to one of you. I have to say that suicide is a serious matter, you cannot play samaritans with a persons life, I accept that. I appreciate that hearts are in the right place for wanting to help, but for instance, with Unity and his take on things, I know that could not have saved my wife and nor could it save me and if I am pushed to be very honest, I would rather he not post to me at all with his ‘story’ it seems rather all about him than anything else. I’m sure it will help some people, but not many and in you trying so hard to fulfill your own purpose you are quite possibly annoying the already annoyed. But yet, if you have helped anyone then you should be commended for that, i applaud you. But please just be careful in how you do it, I completely agree in the keeping things neutral stage unless the person asks you then tell them, but other than that it’s best to keep your opinions to yourself. Help by all means, but this is not about you, it is about the other person, remember that.
This is why it’s called a forum. Look it up.
To just sit by the side and be quiet when someone is hurting someone, is part of why the world has so many problems. Understand the point is that by doing nothing or saying go for it, we can contribute to suicide. I don’t think that’s a hypocritical point to make because it may offend someone. Not said, how many people will it hurt. It’s a fact. Post something that can prove that wrong. It’s a simple point and something people need to consider. It’s unfortunate for those who skim the surface and can’t understand the depths.
I wouldn’t expect paulinanj to read my comment. It doesn’t follow your opinion. farahxx: knobhead?! That hurts.
While I did read and consider what everyone wrote, I certainly take no offense. It is hard to believe any of you read my posts from awhile back, as none of your names were around.
It’s actually also hard to believe most of read my post here. Or , as some of you mentioned, your mind was already made up so you felt you didn’t need to read it. I very much stand by every word I wrote. Am I self righteous because I’m not here saying how messed up my life is? I have the audacity to try and help someone? Do you really think it’s self righteous to try and help someone?
Every type of response here is going to annoy someone or some group of people. I would be ashamed if I were to stop posting because some people don’t favor constructive posts. Hopefully slamming me works for you. Bring it on if you feel it necessary. Your welcome to send comments to my e-mail if you wish to not clog up this site (peaceyeswecan@gmail.com). I doubt you feel I worth it. That’s OK too.
I know this may irritate you but I do sincerely wish you the best, whatever that may be for you.
Take Care,
John
Unity/John; I didn’t want to ad to this thread as it seemed too negative, but your second response has really bothered me and I just want to say this in response to it please;
Your comment on forum – This upsets me. A lot! Yes it is a forum and anyone can join but like one of the other posts says, this is a person life you talking about. I think you are missing the whole point of what is being said here! It’s completely going over your head. You are angry because you feel that you have some clout on this site, i can tell, any post I have seen of yours is very ‘self righteous’ and hugely egotistical. Your second response is just ludicrous and doesn’t even have anything to do with what any point anyone is trying to make. it’s like you’re in your own world.
Just the very fact that you say you will not stop posting because some people ‘can’t handle constructive posts’ it absurd in this case – this is a suicidal forum not some business forum or educational forum!!!
You had tough times, you pulled through them and you want to shout about for the rest of your life and validate your future by helping others whether they want it or not and you justify that in your own ludicrous words. You also show no regard whatsoever for anyone you offend in that process, in fact, you slag them off THE VERY PEOPLE YOU ARE TRYING TO ‘SAVE’ you clearly only have respect for the people who are responsive to you. The reason for that is clear to obviously quite a lot of people – because you are egotistical and controlling.
You also confirm this in your comment about most people in this thread being ‘new here’ and so couldn’t have ‘read your old posts’ you clearly think that you rule the roost here don’t you? It’s obvious in your comments, it’s obvious in your posts and it’s obvious in your high handed manner. And by the way, just because someone may be new to this site could actually only mean they only just posted, they could have been viewing this site for years, and anyone can look at old posts. That just further shows your ignorance.
and you know what’s worst in all of this? The fact that this post only initially has told people to think about what they are saying to people who are in a bad way (maybe it was put across harshly) but that was the only point and plenty people think that was a valid point I can see. But you have created a whole big hooha about it because obviously someone stepped on your toes. Control freak!
It’s NOT self righteous to try to help someone. It’s self righteous to force your own opinions and your own ‘story’ onto someone else – what is it that you don’t understand??????????????
Tammy, well said, but your wasting your time, I get the impression that no-one really takes this guy (unity) seriously, I think he preys on the more vulnerable ones, he seems to be pretty ignored by the vast majority. He’s clearly not ‘recovered’ himself and being here doing what he is doing is in fact his recovery in process. He’s bound to ‘get lucky’ sometimes and he thrives on that. It’s like someone says in one of these responses, they just glide over unity’s responses when they see one because they know that it will be awful and annoying. Just leave him be.
UNITY – what a stupid thing to say that people who are new on this site couldn’t have seen your old posts, I have been viewing these posts for ages, I just haven’t posted like you have.
For fear of jumping on this bandwagon – and I wouldn’t if it had been anyone else, but I’m very aware of your name because whenever I have seen it, it is attached to the most insulting and offensive self centered bullsh1t I have ever seen. I have worked for 20 years with severely depressed and suicidal people and I deeply dislike what you do here. To those who are not suicidal they wont see what I see and what others see in your ‘advice’ – and maybe even not all suicidal people will see it, but I guarantee that MOST will.
I think the very vital point you are missing in this unity is that the help your particular case can offer, will only work with a very few people, surely you see that?? Come on you can’t be that ignorant? No-one is saying that you should not post here or offer comfort, but what you are doing is forcing a medicine onto everyone that is only suitable for a few – that medicine will make some people sick! And on top of that, you get angry at the ones (the suicidal ones for christ sake!) if they do not respond in the way that you want them to! You actually attack them! This is why it is clear you are on this website for your own self and no-one else – it validates you as a person to help people. It is so important to you that you are blind to the fact that it clearly is upsetting a lot of people to.
I sort of want to jump to unity’s defense, but it is difficult to. I have seen the way in which he attacks those who question his tactics, yes even suicidal people which appalls me quite frankly. He’s very heavy handed and does come across as very self righteous I have to admit. What scares me is the way he sees no harm in verbally destroying one of the suicidal person if they don’t act in accordance to what he considers helpful, with no regard to that person welfare – if his heart really was in the right place he would be caring and loving unconditionally to ALL the needy people on here and not just the ‘chosen few’ who allow him to show them the light. It does prove that he is only it for himself. He seems a very emotionless person and I do worry about anyone that is being ‘helped’ by him.
I too have been visiting this site for years now, I just never posted before. Unity had the monopoly on posts I suppose and so now he must feel a bit pissed off by someone coming and setting up a post such as this, offering the ‘advisors’ advise – heaven forbid hey unity? Maybe now people are just starting to speak up because you have been annoying them for so long?
Seems this post hit the very person it was meant to hit hey!
My take on the point that paulinanj makes in this post is that first and foremost isn’t there something physical that the ‘helper’ could do instead of just words – I see no harm at all in asking that, it’s proactive. Secondly, if not, could you find someone who can help physically, or could you offer friendship, actual physical friendship – I see no harm in that either. Thirdly, could you set up some kind of group (charity) thing that can organize some physical kind of help – no harm in that either, seems like a fine idea to me and a long time coming too! (sounds like from his second post he physically helps people so maybe he feels frustrated that this site offers nothing physical?) and lastly, and I think THE most important point which I think Unity and AngelofLight seemed to miss, is that he says if you cannot offer anything but comforting words that you should make them void of your own opinions – THATS ALL! I don’t see how anything insulting is involved here and I just dont see what all this fuss Unity is making is about?
Just because someone survives cancer does not give them the authority to fight someone else’s cancer. Same if someone fights a drug addiction does not always give them authority to cure all drug addicts. Suicidal feelings are very personal, when talking to someone who is suicidal (seriously suicidal, not just depressed) you can only listen to them and support them. I am one of them so I should know! Yes I agree that your own survival story will in a very few cases help others but you are a fool if you think it will help everyone and unity seems to think that he knows whats best for everyone, well clearly he doesn’t! And I agree that it can be very damaging to many others. I too have read some of his stuff and found it disturbing, in fact, I have not read one thing that he has wrote and thought of it as helpful so god only knows who he’s helping.
What has worked for you unity will not work for everyone else, its something you have to wake up to. If you really want to help people you have to do it objectively.
Paulina:
In no way have you offended me my dear:) I stated that I actually agree with you slightly. I love the fact that you took the initiative to correct anyone that can do more harm than good on this site. I appreciate that. I’m just trying to remind people out there that some of us really do love and care for the people on this site and that not all of us want the GLORY in saving lives. I agree that some persons come off very ignorant when they post by telling the people stuff they already know. As a matter of fact, i hate when people in general do that to me. IT IS RATHER ANNOYING! lol. But sorry if you and the others read my post wrong. However, I would like to remind everyone that this site is not here for us to argue or fuss and fight, rather assist those that need someone who can truly relate to them. Even so, Thanks for your post! It makes me think twice, perhaps even three time before I run on with my happy go lucky words of encouragement. I am now very meticulous about the way that I word things to ensure that those in need of enlightment receive the message in a positive manner. May peace be with you:)
Im dizzy from reading all the posts, but everyone here makes a good point. Though I dont really get what Unity/John is trying to say… I think everyone on this site is matters, suicidal and non-suicidal. Sorry im a bit of a goober and I care about everybody. lol
Community.
Huh. This is an oldie but a goodie. This post really makes some good points about the dangers of intteracting with fragile people. The answer here could be summed up with one word:
EMPATHY.
If you try to imagine what the other person feels like, what the other person wants, or wants to hear, you’re on a better path to giving them what they’re looking for.
For all the do-gooders there who will pay lip service to the simple and magical answers to depression that worked for them, I will say: You’re heart’s in the right place, but your ethics aren’t.