So, I got to thinking about how a parent’s personality can really screw a kid up and effect them throughout their lifetime.
Then that thought led me into another about the state of the world.
I came up with a question for all of you insightful people on this site. I’m curious and I’d love to know what everyone thinks.
Before I ask my question, I want to highlight some facts (that you should already be aware of);
-The world population is now 7 billion and counting. Overcrowding is becoming an issue.
-Global warming is getting increasingly worse. More natural disaters destroying homes and land. Ice caps melting, anyone?
-Corrupt politicians and bankers possibly bringing the world economy to a complete collapse.
-Ever increasing violence the world over.
-Threat of a man-made airborne super virus being released via bio-terrorism.
lol Okay, I could go on but, I won’t. Now my question is this:
Do you think bringing a child into this world is selfish?
My question takes place in the here and now and for the future. Not the people who have already had kids for years. Who knew that things would turn out how they have? In my opinion, it’s selfish. The thought of bringing a child into this crappy existence is, well, crappy. Sure there are good things in life. These bad things really overshadow anything good that life can bring. So I was left wondering, why would anyone subject an innocent child to it?
Thoughts?
96 comments
No – Of course not!It could be that child who creates a cheap clean energy or the cure for cancer or a new way to grow more food or to purify water. I completely reject that “the Bad overshadows the good” … the “bad” just has a MUCH better publicist 😉
Haha. Good point. Okay qrsdawg, what if the kid is just some regular joe that can’t get a job and ends up suicidal on this site like the rest of us? The future babies of this world can’t all be cancer curers.
yes. its unfair
yes. its horrible
yes. its unkind
yes. its has to happen
solution: Nuclear winter
Nuclear winter…sounds cold. It’s probably bound to happen.
not so much cold as the sun being blocked out, and all forms of life being destroyed
The sun being blocked out would make it cold though.
yeah i guess hmm but would it be as cold a normal winter? or would it be colder
Hm, probably colder since nuclear winters can last for years. I’m sure it would eventually get to be well below 0.
GG – it’s just like the lottery – you can’t win if ya don’t “play”. But seriously – I used to think much like you some 30 years ago … I became a grandfather this month 🙂
Has my kid cured cancer? – no … but my daughter and her fiance have given each other a reason to be positive about their little slice of the world – they have Hope
@SW – nuclear winter ain’t gonna happen – except in movies and video games – bet on it 😉
@qrsdawg, Congrats on becoming a grandfather. And I’m glad your daughter has found happiness in life. :]
I wish I could say the same. Also, about the lottery, isn’t like a zillion to one chance? Not very good.
Nuclear winter could happen if someone is stupid enough to start a nuclear war.
i don’t know, there is a slim chance that i will become a highly repected goverment official that would have control of nukes…then i would unleash my wraith ON THE WORLD!! thus causing nuclear winter
See… lol
all I can say is:
1) yes it’s unfair, but @qrsdawg gave some fresh new perspectives that I’m grateful to hear for the first time…quite new & interesting~
and
2) 2012 is near, o humans… be prepared (whether you believe “it” or not), and be warned of the more ‘worse’ things to come soon…
You think the world will end in 2012 niki?
solitarywalker seems to be stupid enough to start a nuclear war haha, let’s do it!!! >=O
You and solitary seem to have a little evil genius in you… ;]
i can’t argue with that
2012 is all about the galactic allignment
i haven’t seen your name before…
@x-boy, I know it’s about the alignment of the planets supposedly. I seen some guy on the news though that bought a whole bunch of new stuff and he wouldn’t have to make payments until after 2012…he figured the world was gonna end so he was like “what the hell, why not?” NOT a smart move.
@SW – You might become a highly respected Gov’t official – but unless you become prez or chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff you won’t get your hands on ‘the football’ – but if you do make it to that level, I’d bet you wouldn’t want to do it because THEN you’d have too much to lose
okay, just asking, but is “the football” a the mouse that roared reference?
“I’d bet you wouldn’t want to do it because THEN you’d have too much to lose”
Very solid point. Power would get to your head sol, and you wouldn’t want to risk losing it.
meh, id rather be a mathamation or a banker
Hey at least you’d make millions.
Sorry – mid-90’s (or was it the 80’s?) movie reference – I think it was the original “the Dead Zone” movie – that you might not be familiar with … “the football” is supposedly a briefcase with launch access codes for ICBMs that only the President can initiate
@GoodGirl: not necessarily a world’s end, but I personally believe there would be some MAJOR, big things going to happen at that (or THE) year: 2012. seeing and judging from many UN-related sources I’ve read/heard all this time..
@niki, Yeah, I suppose something big could happen. I mean something is always happening, right? As far as the world ending, I think that’s BS.
@niki maybe, I really don’t know what the year brings
@Dawg Is it anything like the book?
hey everyone
Hi Daissy. Have anything to add?
Even this year 2011, we can already see those ‘big’ things happening at the face: all those worldwide protests, movements against the “status quo” or “The Elites” (regardless if you believe in the Conspiracy theories or not..), some quite strange climate changes, basically all those things you’ve mentioned at the OP above.
and I honestly don’t see any reason why it couldn’t get worse and BIGGER, like a Snowball effect, in the upcoming year: 2012.
“I honestly don’t see any reason why it couldn’t get worse and BIGGER, like a Snowball effect, in the upcoming year: 2012”
Agreed. I like how you think, niki. Always questioning authority. I admire that. haha :]
hi dais
Trust me – the only thing that will happen at the end of 2012 … is 2013, and new monthly bills
Sure it’s romantic to think of all the drama … but what if the mayan calendar ends there simply because they thought they’d have PLENTY of time to update the calendar before it reached the end?
@qrsdawg, I think the Mayan’s ran out of room for their calendar and it led them to the conclusion that the world would end. lol
@SW Yes – it was made from the book by Stephan King 🙂
2012 will not end the world. My opinion in a quick and simple statement.
Okay, what about bringing babies into this harsh world? Did you read my OP?
@Dawg, well the book I own, I hate stephen king because all of his books are exactly the same, yet i read him all the time
I love Stephen King. :]
Yeah i read it, despite hating the fact that the world is filled with too many people (most of which i dislike) I really want to have a child. Babies/babysitting is like one thing that makes me really happy.( Okay that sounded a little pedophileish, but i didn’t intend to make it sound that way)
Nah, didn’t sound pedo-ish. Thanks for your input though. It’s good to have a different opinion.
@GG – the world has been harsh since the beginning of recorded history and beyond – you somehow our species finds a way to learn, grow and prosper.
@SW – his books are similar, but FAR from the same – “the Stand” was one of my faves – you might like it since you seem to like apocalyptic, dark end of the world scenarios 😉
@qdawg, I know, yet lately it seems like we are taking a step backwards or in the wrong direction. Even with more knowledge and new technology, we still kind of live in the dark ages. Never really got out of a sort of primal state. Or maybe we’re prospering TOO fast and that’s why so many are struggling to keep up.
yawn, im tired, and i just got my bed back, so im going to bed
already?
i had to do stuff today tht sucked the life out of me.
Night Carolyn.
ohh well goodnight Carolyn
I won’t be surprised if a kid accidentally finds a cure for cancer, I mean scientist still haven’t yet.
OR, if you’re into conspiracy theories, maybe they have found a cure but medicine is big business and they are being forced not to share a cure? lol Honestly, who knows.
I actually am into conspiracy theories 😀
Primal state? dark ages? feel free to check the actual history of the dark ages – it’s so horrific and bleak that it’s a shock that mankind even survived it! Yet we did! … and now we have instant-on lighting, movie picture boxes and goggle machines 😉
Although it does feel somewhat “rustic” without my Xbox360 LOL
Once upon a time when fantasize, i see myself (i see myself) sitting down Almighty … in a dark room.. in the light ……. and from this room I watch (and from this room I watch) I watch I watch I watch (and from this room I watch) and from this room I watch …. Once upon Again …. The Wrath of God’s graceful destruction… on a Holy Mission to save back Mother Nature and her Children, Once upon Again setting back time giving Us a New Start and a New Chance …. To Achieve the Ultimate Purpose …
i was rapping with this tune …
@Daissy, yay :]
@qdawg, Ahh, I learned about the dark ages but, it was so long ago I don’t remember that much of it. And lol, you are so optimistic, I’m jealous of you. ;]
Many of you here are very young and although you’ve had some really bad things happen, the truth is that life has many facets that you have yet to experience yet – I’ve experienced a lot already and have ridden the rollercoaster for a while – there’s good things aplenty yet to come! when I was in my teens, I could not and WOULD not see a future – I felt like many of you do today – you thing the world has nothing o offer you and nothing can “make you better”
Well – thankfully, I’m a great big painchicken – I endured … and can to find many fun things in life … and a LOT of heartache and pain too … but there is a balance if you endure and persevere. Of course almost 30 yrs later, here I am on TSP website :/
But even if I “punched my ticket” tonight I’d do so content in the fact that at least I exhausted every last opportunity and possibility to make the most of my life that I could.
I had successes and failures but not too many regrets – i hope that each of you can find a way to make it through just one more day and find something good or funny o fair or soft that can make you smile and/or relax – if just for a moment. And you can make it through your dark times to a time where good things outnumber the bad.
Don’t be jealous – I had to WORK at my optimism – it didn’t come easy – I had to retrain my brain on how to process things that I used to hate and get angry at – re condition myself to ask “why does this make me mad – How does this REALLY affect me?”
I just realized I typed a book – and everyone will say “that old bastard is SOO out of touch with reality” … But it’s how I learned to be more optimistic 😉
when you get mad at something, you are giving it POWER over you – the offending thing or person OWNS you when you SUBMIT your anger to it – at this point you need to say “NO – I do NOT give myself and my anger to you – I choose to KEEP my power and not LET you control how I will feel”
This IS HARD! It takes time, effort and practice but when you find you can rationalize away someone or somethings ATTEMPT to anger you (and thus control you) and CHOOSE TO be happy, or at least indifferent – you will begin to realize that YOU have the power and control to CHOOSE how you feel
@qrsawg: your post & personal story sharing kinda gives me a Hope…honestly. so thanks for sharing this.. hopefully I can become a better person in the upcoming new year, wait, I mean THE year: 2012.
and this is also for everybody here to read:
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Thankful/1903942
hopefully it can give some different perspective on life.. as it kinda did to me.
@ Niki – Please disregard my last post … the world will end anyway so …
LOL – just kidding
Seriously – I hope my words can help in some small way – but I really mean it when I say that it’s HARD – you have to catch yourself when you feel your blood boil then CHOOSE to react in a way that is TOTALLY alien to you – it will feel unnatural – but if you can succeed – you will feel the power of NOT letting the situation control you but YOU will control the situation
FYI – If I REALLY told my personal story – everyone here would die of either boredom or laughing 😉 … but I can assure you It would take until February to finish typing it
Well i cant wait to read it!
Trust me – it’s not all that exotic or romantic – much like the above mentioned roller coaster this many hills and valleys … that’ll probably make everyone puke
I have been on MANY roller coasters despite my short size, i don’t puke unless I’m sick.
Well – not everyone has your Iron Constitution – tell ya what – anything you wanna know about this old geezer – feel free to ask me 😉
Intersting question. I am reluctant to make whole generalisations that certain actions are ‘selfish’ or ‘unselfish’… mostly because ultimately, it doesn’t matter. Motives don’t change desires, and for many people having a child is the only thing they desire in the world, so I’d loathe to deny anyone of that on the grounds that it’s selfish… mostly because they would just go ahead and do it anyway, so making them feel guilty about it isn’t very constructive.
In a way you could say it’s selfish for all the reasons you mentioned but just to play devil’s advocate: what if the child grew up to be Malcom X? Or Nelson Mandela? Wouldn’t the world have been a much worse place if they hadn’t been born? So while it may be selfish, the point is, you can’t make black and white judgements on what is right and wrong, because NO ONE knows the future, or what is going to happen. Every child is born with a world of potential and none of us can say how they are going to impact the world.
Having said that, though, I think there should be reasonable limits because there are those strange people who just endlessly breed. I saw in a crappy tabloid magazine there was this couple with like 20 children and they said they wanted another baby for xmas. I wondered if they were like those people who get puppies, and then when the puppy grows up and isn’t cute anymore, they get board and get a new puppy. shudder.
@One_day – Brilliant! 🙂
Additionally I’d add – who says that being selfish is AWAYS a derogatory thing? what appears to the casual passer-by to be selfish – may be completely selfless to those “in the know” For instance – a surrogate mother carrying a child for a couple that is incapable – selfless to sacrifice for others? or Selfish for “bringing a child into a harsh world” or “doing it for the money”?
@qrsdawg – yup! Have you heard these hypothetical question:
Q1: If you knew a woman who was pregnant, and she had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend that she have an abortion?
If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.
Q2: It is time to elect the world leader, and your vote counts. Here are the facts about the three leading candidates:
Which of these candidates would be your choice?
Candidate A associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists. He’s had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.
Candidate B was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whisky every evening.
Candidate C is a decorated war hero. He’s a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer and hasn’t had any extramarital affairs
Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt
Candidate B is Winston Churchill
Candidate C is Adolph Hitler
Moral of the story… you really can’t judge ANYONE! People are full of suprises!
I agree that sometimes the ‘selfish’ action is not always a bad thing… that’s why I feel those kind of all-encompassing judgements just really useless in talkng about morality.
I think about this just about every day. I used to not want children for those very reasons you listed GG. It wasn’t until this summer that I found myself pregnant that I realized how amazing it was to know I was carrying a life in me, I felt like a real woman. BUT as amazing as it felt I was troubled by it. I never intended to bring a life into this horrible place we call home. Idk how you all feel about abortion, but in the end I decided not to have my baby. For many different reasons, but not for the ones you mentioned, surprisingly. For a couple of months I hurt, I regretted my decision, I just wanted my baby. But as time goes by I realize over and over again that I did the right thing. Not only did I never plan on bringing a life into this messed up world, but I’ve been dealing with depression since I was in my early teens [im about to be 24 next month], and it’s only been getting worse. My mother has also had her own mental health issues, and it’s clear to me that it is hereditary. Most of my day I spend wishing I had never been born, wishing I could just disappear without my family noticing my absence [I can’t stand the thought of hurting my family if I were to commit suicide, even though they are a weight on my shoulder and contribute to my depression]. What I’m getting to is why would I want to bring a child into a sucky life like mine? I may be able to give it everything [as my parents did to me] but I cannot be assured that it wont hate its life the way I have mine, so why bother?
So as physically sick as I was during the couple of weeks that I was carrying a life in me, I felt amazing and I would love to have that feeling again, I would love to hold my baby in my arms. But I do believe it would be incredibly selfish.
I have an 18 year old & a 22 month old.
The earth has taken care of itself & has undergone many changes during it’s life & it will undergo many, many more regardless if ppl are on it or not.
Global warming, wonder if that’s what the dinosaurs called it. Remember there was ice age? It is said, history repeats.
Corruption, white man raped the Indiana’s wives back in the Pilgrim days, Happy Thanksgiving.
Hundreds of ppl dye everyday making room for ppl.
It’s what you make out of your child’s life that’s important, not what’s going on around the world. Your children are a reflection of you. If you have a potty mouth, break the laws, hit them, expose them to drugs, trashy tv shows, then this is what YOU taught your child to be.
If you love your child, monitor what they see & hear, treat them with respect, hang with a good crowd, be an active part of their life, YOU will have raised a wonderful human being that deserves every life has to offer.
Life is to short to worry about all the worlds problems, were all on here for a set amount of time. Make the best of that short time the best you can. Being a parent is the best job in the world, if you embrace it with love.
My life would of been a waste without my 2 boys.
Wow. This site is better than therapy. lol Thanks for replying everyone. Alrighttt…
@qdawg, Thanks for sharing at least part of your story, it didn’t bore me at all. I actually found it interesting and to be very good advice. I am young, only 20. I am that person that you described, letting anger control me. Even though I realize that it’s only hurting me and no one else. I still do it anyway. Like I told one_day before, it’s so hard to change how you are, how you’ve always been. Change scares me, honestly. I have a hard time adjusting to it. I think I will TRY to at least change my reactions to certain situations and my outlook on life. I don’t expect it to be easy at all.
@one_day, I think the people in the tabloid magazine you’re talking about are this family here in the states that has a reality show and it’s called “19 Kids and Counting” or something. Yeah, I agree, it’s kind of sick. They recently got pregnant and she miscarried, I believe. Don’t really understand why they feel the need to have so many kids. I’ve never watched their show, because I hate reality tv, so I don’t know what’s up with that. And speaking of people who get puppies and when they grow up and aren’t “cute” anymore they get rid of them, I told someone else on here that I had a neighbor like that. He was a real bastard.
Also this one: “Candidate C is a decorated war hero. He’s a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer and hasn’t had any extramarital affairs” With the answer of Hitler, I think that’s a bit misleading. I mean, all of the choices are. There’s not enough info given. lol If someone really asked me those questions I would be immediately suspicious as to why they only said bad things about the first two and only good things about the last person. But, maybe that’s just me.
Anyway, appreciate your insight. I sort of figured your answer would be something of that nature. :]
@str0121, I kinda feel the same way as you. If I were to find myself pregnant right now, I would want to have an abortion. I wouldn’t even consider adoption because, in my opinion, that can be worse than abortion. That poor kid would grow up his or her whole life wondering why the hell didn’t mommy want me? I couldn’t provide for a child right now, I can’t even provide for myself. Not to mention my current mental state. So, I see where you’re coming from.
I hope that you can eventually feel as you did during those few weeks. :]
@AllHope, Thanks for sharing. A couple of things though…
“If you love your child, monitor what they see & hear, treat them with respect, hang with a good crowd, be an active part of their life, YOU will have raised a wonderful human being that deserves every life has to offer.” My parents aren’t like, super-human, perfect beings but, they are generally good parents like that. Yet, here I am. On this site. Sure there have been bad times but, I don’t know if just being a good parent can prevent your kids from growing up suicidal, I suppose.
As for the global warming thing, I know that it is a process. It has happened naturally in the past. We are exacerbating it, however. And just the fact that there are so many people on this planet is what makes it so horrific. So I thought, why add to that? Why possibly put a future child in harms way sort of thing? I know you can’t control everything and everyone, just maybe prevent it from happening to your hypothetical kids. I’m just looking out for the kids. That’s the point I think I was trying to make in my OP.
Anywho, I’m glad you’re life isn’t a waste because of your kids. :]
the very first word that caught my eye when i saw your comment was hitler…
If the world does end in 2012, I would like to be either in a nuclear submarine or high flying propeller plane and watch it all happen. I think that would be awesome and the greatest show on earth. I would feel like Woody Harelson. (movie -2012 reference) I would not want to die until I saw most of it happen. Hahaha.
FYI – I had help with the benefit of an anger management counselor to give me the tools to retrain my brain. Then, at my office job I had the benefit of a great customer service class that reinforced much of what I learned in anger management and offered many real world applications – these opportunities changed my whole outlook on life.
What was ironically funny to my was, one of my ex-wives actually cited the fact that I “didn’t show appropriate emotion/anger” in many situations where it could have normally been expected – as one of the reasons for leaving me LOL 😀
But what’s most important is to open your mind to being receptive to learning the new methodologies. The first anger management class was not by choice, it was court-ordered. I really didn’t feel I “needed” help and could have just as easily “put in the time” and left and disregarded everything they were teaching – but instead I recognized it as an opportunity to potentially learn something new. Had I not been open, like many other attendees, my life would likely be VERY different today.
I see many folks here on this site react almost with open hostility at the thought or suggestion of a professional counselor. What they don’t understand is the counselor doesn’t want to “change” them or kill their personality – they just want to offer them tools to help them see the world in a different, more calm and positive light.
Nobody’s life is a waste and everyone deserve to be happy sometimes – but it is an impossibility to always be happy. Anything that can be done to increase the odds of being in a more happy or at least content frame of mind, should be attempted at every opportunity 🙂
Dawg
@Carolyn, lmao. It does stick out like a sore thumb…
@deadright, that scene in 2012 with Woody Harrelson was hilarious. But, what would you do after you watched it? Kill yourself? Because there would be, like, nothing left..
@dawg, I keep shortening your username. lol Curious; what did you do to get court-ordered anger management? You don’t have to tell me if you don’t want, I was just wondering.
Hah, did your ex-wife not know you had had anger management which caused you to change your reactions?
I think a lot of people on here that react badly to the suggestion of a counselor have either had bad experiences with them or are not comfortable talking about their feelings to someone. Or, like you said, they feel like they’ll be forced to change who they are.
Thanks for sharing. :]
taylor, i just see the worst in paragraphs
No, no, I do the same thing. It’s just something you don’t expect to see there so it sticks out, of course.
I just woke up, fell asleep in a middle of a conversation and now i missed A LOT!
forserious?
hey, go to youtube tomorrow, and look up exorcist with solitary and alyssa, we’re reading aloud the book
@GG – in short, 20+ years ago, a police officer saw a large man (me) restraining a small woman (my 1st ex) and jumped to the assumption that I was doing harm – when, in fact, I was preventing her from running out to the car and driving drunk and possibly killing people or herself (she ended up crashing into a building drunk a year later and has now racked up 4 DUIs … and is a raging and mean alcoholic to this day) … but it’s hard to change someones thoughts when they already have it firmly rooted in their brain … since we were on a vacation, we were hundreds of miles from home so since I had never been in any trouble I simply pleaded no contest and walked with probation and anger management (this decision would come back to haunt me in my 2nd marriage)
It would have been costly if I would have pleaded innocent and it would have dragged out a bad memory over a long period of time so I figured it would just be easier to cop the plea, go home and put it behind us – we divorced about a year later when SHE was arrested for spouse battery (on me) … since I clearly could not lift a finger to protect myself without appearing to be the “aggressor” and risking a 2nd charge
I am not afraid or ashamed to share my past at all – but i do worry about being too specific as to becoming identifiable by folk who know me so If I seem vague – that is why.
And calling me Dawg is fine (and preferrable) 🙂
Dawg
@goodgirl, you are totally right, those questions are obviously biased and I also would be suspicious of anyone who said only bad things about the last candidate too. But the point of these ‘ethical’ questions is to point out the very important point that ethics and morality are NOT universal.. as you pointed out, not adequate information. Each case is unique and needs assessment on a case by case scenario, that’s why universal ethics just don’t work.
@dawg, I totally agree, it is possible to retrain your brain, in fact I think my brain was actually already ‘retrained’ to be negative when I was a kid, so I think of it as ‘untraining’ my brain!
I agree I notice a lot of people react very badly at the prospect of seeing a councillor… I have a theory about this. I think a lot of people (me included) really cling to the idea that they are unique and special and defy catorgorisation. So they don’t think councilling would help, because counselling by and large involves catorgorisation and applying tried and tested techniques that have worked for other people. No one wants to believe their depression is the same as other people’s. People want to believe their depression is so special, like no one else has ever suffered so much. That’s why I think depression often goes hand in hand with a kind of self defeating egoism or sense of superiority… any thoughts on this?
@GG – My 3rd ex wife was well aware of my history before we married – I make it a point to be up front and honest about it so women can make informed decisions – there were situations where she expected me to use my size and intimidation to “persuade” a situation to her desired result … I was able to gain similar results by being calm, friendly and patient 😉 … it frustrated #3 to no end LOL
@dawg – that sux what happened to you, all over a stupid misunderstanding. why did your partner just tell them what happened and get the charges dropped? would they not have believed her, assumed you were pressuring her to defend you?
@One_day – you theory seems pretty good – the bottom line though, is there is a negative stigma with brain health – but I think you’re onto something especially when you consider that many depressed folks seem to feel invisible, they want to cling to anything that makes them stand out. I really don’t have a lot of experience with clinical depression (I don’t think I am) so you probably know more than me.
Dawg
At the time she was drunk and very pissed off – she’s a very mean drunk. And I wasn’t exactly sober either – there’s a little more to the story and in part I earned a night in jail … but it was NOT for spouse abuse … FYI – she did bail me out the next day – but by then the damage was done.
@dawg, Jeez, you were only trying to save some lives, and that’s what you got? That does suck. I’m glad that the anger management worked for you though. I couldn’t help but laugh at the irony of her being arrested for spouse battery on you. You don’t seem that vague, I mean, you don’t have to tell us every little detail.
Except, what’s your full name and address please? lol kidding.
So I take it number 3 constantly wanted you to defend her by beating up other guys?
@one_day, Ah, I see now. I totally get that. Very valid point.
What you said about your theory of not wanting to see a counsellor because depressed people feel like their case is special, you could be right. I mean, I can think I’m a special case until I see other people who have it worse. I don’t know. I still think that it might be out of not wanting to an outside party. Maybe they think that person wouldn’t understand?
*talk to an outside party
Yeah it’s very common… like I think it was Procel here the other day posting about how he though depressed people were the only smart people in the world or something like that? I think it’s a defense mechanism that develops from having low self esteem, or depression, and having to justify it somehow, having to justify the burden by turning it into somekind of misunderstood ‘talent’.
I also understand not wanting to talk to an outside party… that’s different, thats just you being shy. But there are other people who don’t want to see a proffessional because they firmly believe they CAN”T help, when they’ve never tried it. It’s a totally irrational believe, not based on personal experience or anything.
When I was a student, we were all forced to do this seminar and we had to do one of those personality tests where they put you into catorgories…. ‘poistive emotional thinkers’ or type 1 personality and such. The class I was in was a highly elite art school, and it was amusing to see how badly all these top class artists reacted to being catorgorised. They really rebelled against the excersice and as such, didn’t learn anything from it because they were too busy rebelling (the point was, depending on your personality type, to find out the best way to react to problems). Ultimately I think they were being arrogant to the idea of catorgorisation, but I don’t think it’s such a bad thing, as long as you’re not being judgemental. It’s a tool to quickly identify your strengths and weaknesses.
Some people need to project their stuff on to their children in order to avoid themselves..-that’s when you get abuse in all it’s forms-they may intentionally or accidentally get pregnant. That’s one scenario.
On some level we chose to experience this place, so if you accept that notion, someone had to bring us in.
3rdly, it depends on someone’s intentions. Some people genuinely want to raise children as an enriching experience…watching a child go through all their stages can be quite amazing. As souls some children are older souls meant to teach their parents valuable lessons. For me, I’d like to be back home meself. 😉
@one_day, yeah he was the one talking about how being depressed made you enlightened. But if it’s some way to cope or to justify having depression, do you think it’s a bad thing? I mean, I suppose it’s a bad thing; you’ll never stop being depressed.
I’ve never been to a counsellor, myself. I can’t afford it. I don’t really want to go to one. I don’t know if being shy would stop me if I really wanted it. And I don’t think they would help me either. lol I’m totally aware that that is irrational, though.
Being categorized doesn’t really bother me. Honestly, I don’t put that much thought into it. Since it was about personality types, I probably would have been okay with your class’s exercise, even though I do enjoy rebelling. ;]
@soft soul, You said, “On some level we chose to experience this place, so if you accept that notion, someone had to bring us in.” So do you believe in reincarnation or a higher being? See, I don’t really. Although, I like the idea of being an “old soul”. I think that’s interesting.
As a coping mechanism, it’s not a bad thing… until it gets to the point where you are belittling other people. I take offense to the idea that non-depressed people are blind and ignorant – simply put, not true. What is the difference between self-confidence and arrogance? Arrogance is at the expense of others.
It’s up to you if you want to see a councillor or not. My feeling is that you’re not in so desperate a place that you need to talk to someone, you are ok just spewing your guts here 🙂 that’s a good thing. But some people are litterally teetering on the brink of suicide and they STILL STILL STILL refuse to talk to someone. If it ever gets that bad for you goodgirl, I hope you bite the bullet and recognise you’ve got nothing to lose by talking to someone, at that point. Until then, keep spewing, your guts are quite an enjoyable read!
😀 Well, I’m glad my guts are an enjoyable read. lol thank you.
Actually, recently, I seriously considered seeing a therapist. It was when I was in such a dark mood and I felt like dying. So, I guess it’s good that I’d at least consider it even in a dark place.
I am comfortable spewing my guts out here. Still a little self conscious every time I make a post. It’s a good thing everyone is so helpful here. I don’t think a regualr blog would work.
That’s true about arrogance at the expense of others. But would a depressed person be able to see that clearly? Like, you aren’t in the right frame of mind being depressed, so you can’t recognize that it’s being arrogant? You know what I mean? Ugh I feel like I’m not making any sense. lol
You’re making perfect sense.
I’m very comforted to hear that you would consider going to a therapist if it gets bad again. At least you’re not completely closeminded to it.
You’re right – a depressed person can’t see a lot of things clearly or objectively. That is why it’s such a crippling illness to have, because depression uses the brains’ strongest tools against the brain itself. I’ve noticed… when I am depressed, my brain turns EVERYTHING into supporting evidence of how I am not good enough. It’s completely skewed logic, but because it’s a rational process, and logical in a sense, it becomes easy to believe. But I do believe you can teach yourself to recognise this behaviour, recognise how bias it is, and to some extent, overcome it. I did it 🙂 and I believe that’s what therapists help people to do as well.
Good, I wasn’t sure how to word my thought exactly. Yes, if I get to a really bad place again, I would try therapy. I wouldn’t want to be put on meds, though. That’s a fear of mine. I think a lot of doctors are just too prescription happy.
Depression does that to me as well. I think I’m not good enough. I criticize myself. But I never think to myself, this doesn’t make any sense. It all seems to make sense when you’re depressed. I’m glad you overcame it, one day. That gives me hope. :]
@goodgirl, well I kind of overcame it but.. you know that little voice is still there. At least I can recognise it for what it is though… insecurity. I’m not ‘fixed’, but… I’ve learn to work with what I got!
It kind of started with me when my sister was dating a guy with very low esteem, and she called me and told me about all these things that he did that upset her… like he would not want to meet her friends, little things like that. I explained the rationale behind it… when you’re depressed you make EVERYTHING about how you’re not good enough… so I explaine that he didn’t want to meet her friends because he was scared he would embarass her. When I explained it like that she understood… before she thought he was just being a douchebag.
That’s about when I realised that I had depression as well. Because all these behaviours that I could recognise in my sister’s boyfriend, I understood them because I did the same thing! But then I also saaw through my sister how mean some of those behaviours appear to other people, and how frustrating and irrational they are when you don’t understand the logic of ‘EVERYTHING is about how I’m not good enough’.
So yeah, it’s WAY easier to see these things in other people, rather than yourself! But, it’s a start… maybe the more you look at other people, the more self-reflective you will get, that was the case for me anyway. There is always hope for those who help themselves.