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Like a relapse…

by clevername

I just caved and wrote to the wrong person.


It had been a while, but i know that writing is at best futile, and at worst, potentially problem-causing.


But just the other day, i had a series of “seemingly connected experiences,” which resulted in… memories, thoughts, feelings i just couldn’t shake, and they wanted control… and i lost that battle. Maybe i forfeited. Maybe i hate my vulnerability so much that i lash out at any little thing that might expose or exploit it. When something is going to hit you where it hurts, the only “right way” to react, is to “go all in,” and either minimize the impact, or sacrifice for counter-strike positioning. I guess i felt like it was too late to defend, so i might as well run with it and… in this case, say what i needed to say, since we’re not talking about actual combat.


Either way, i “couldn’t resist,” and words happened. Immediately i felt like a relapsing addict. I didn’t even get to “enjoy” the feeling of knowing i had expressed what i needed, to the right (only) audience. No, just the “how long will i last this time…” and “how long will the paranoia last, before i can check my email without anxiety…”

People say words are powerful, but really they’re not. They’re only really powerful as a catalyst for events that are already likely to occur.


I’ve noticed that “bad words,” or “harsh words,” are far more likely to be interpreted as “true,” or “believed,” whereas “good words” are often doubted or disregarded. It seems that the typical audience prefers to give power to negative words, or perhaps, to infer negative meaning, when the intent is not completely unambiguous. Lots of people tend to take words the wrong way, when that wrong way is available.


Anyway… it feels like a relapse. Even though writing doesn’t give me any sort of “high,” and really doesn’t relieve any tension. It doesn’t solve a damn thing, especially when what i write is disregarded, and what the audience wants to think, is substituted for my intended meaning, instead.

I wrote to the person who “stole” music from me. I’ll skip the explanation and simply state that this is a big deal. This is a huge problem for me, and i can’t fix it.


Part of the reason i embraced my musical gift at such an early age, is that music, unlike words, does not require a specific meaning. Music allows a feeling to be expressed, without perfectly eloquent verbalization. A note sounds the same in every language. Music “speaks” in ways, and conveys things that words simply cannot.

I felt like music freed me from that whole “language” construct, and allowed expression to bypass that typical linguistic translation/interpretation barrier, although i realize that music is largely about interpretation, as well.


But now… i feel like i’m stuck with just words, as the only tools available, through which to express what can only be conveyed musically. What i once found so… spiritually moving, in music… now feels like… you know what, i can’t even bring myself to describe it. It’s just terrible. Nails on a chalk-board terrible. I can’t stand it. Even the most mellow and supposedly soothing sounds, just send me to a horrible place, where all i want is Out, and Silence.

Before this happened to me, i didn’t know it was possible for someone to ruin Music for me. I didn’t know that was something i could lose. I miss it, and i’m angry about it. I want it back, and i’ve tried, but it’s been years, and i just… can’t. I have this crazy involuntary reaction to anything musical, and i can’t handle it. Oddly enough, i’ve recently been playing The Sims and SimCity, and the music there hasn’t bothered me. That of SimCity is thoroughly hypnotizing. It’s like “oh, i’m gonna play and work on my city for a bit… OH, it’s DAWN!” Weird right? Yeah. I know.


I guess the only reason i’m sharing this is because i feel ashamed for attempting to express things to someone who does not appreciate them.

It’s like battling an addiction that never goes away. It’s constant, consistent, perpetual… and all i get out of it is the onerous task of practicing restraint, and refraining from expressing what another won’t understand, as if i’m the villain, and not the victim. I’m definitely not just “playing” the victim, in this. I am the only one who has any consequence, and it’s a life sentence of something i can’t maintain, didn’t earn, and don’t deserve. It’s completely unfair, and disproportionately harsh. But that’s not to say i expect the world to be fair. I just can’t get past how in the world i managed to encounter this degree of unfairness. I must have had a gaping hole in my heuristics… and then encountered someone who intended to exploit that vulnerability. And that is the key here: intent to exploit. I am completely certain that the evidence at hand, does in fact indicate this, quite clearly. At this point, denials are insulting. It’s like saying fire is cold, or water is dry. But i know fire is hot and water is wet. You can’t tell me otherwise, unless you want to look like a fool.


I hope that “forgetting pill” becomes available, while i’m around to try it. I’d trade like half my memories, and risk possible brain damage, just to forget this one person. The memories are toxic to me, and i don’t know how to forget… especially when what i want to forget, is constantly in my face, with countless reminders everywhere i look, everywhere i go, in every moment of all of my days.


Thankfully, my dreams are relatively safe, and rarely intruded. I rarely even remember having dreams… or, i am dreaming of a deep, dark, infinite void, in which i am not myself, or even aware of existing. It’s almost like drifting, disembodied, through the cosmos, aware of limited perception, but not as “me.” Just a perspective floating in space, completely disconnected from all of this misery.


Speaking of dreams… that’s about how i dreamed, when i slept for… idek how long, maybe 10+ hours, and woke up feeling strange, and wondering: is any of this even real?

As someone who almost never questions the reality of reality, i had this strange, surreal feeling, and the thought occurred to me.

It sure seems real… and it’s probably just my mind breaking. With all the prolonged psychological torment i’ve endured, it’s bound to happen eventually.

Whether it’s “really real,” doesn’t really matter, because even if it isn’t, i’m stuck here anyway. And if it is “really real,” as i usually feel quite certain that it is… then it’s not a question that needs asking.

All i really need to know, is that “this” is as real as anything i’ve ever known, has ever been.

Perhaps my senses “embellish” reality a bit, sometimes. Maybe my senses tell me that it’s “more real” than it actually is.

Maybe i need to try to just be an animal like everyone else. Maybe i just can’t. Maybe that’s the real problem.


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Painman 7/6/2013 - 4:42 pm

How did someone steal your music, clever? I am quite often having my dream (singing) bashed and smashed away at by other people but I know if I was to lose my dream completely then id just have nothing to warrant carrying on in life really. Quite scary situation tbh but a true one.

clevername 7/6/2013 - 8:40 pm

by speaking only through songs, and making it a toxic experience… and other things. It’s difficult to explain.

And by “my music,” i mean both literally and figuratively.

Any type of tonal or rhythmic organization resembling music, brings me involuntary discomfort. A beat, a chord, a melody… even just a single sung pitch, noticeably out of normal speaking range… it’s upsetting. I watched helplessly as it gradually slipped from my grasp.

By “stole,” i mean… imposed conditions that resulted in my inability to enjoy musical things. Maybe “ruined” or “killed” is a better word. Just seems a little hyperbolic, i guess.

Painman 7/6/2013 - 10:28 pm

Sounds a pretty strange situation, I’m finding it difficult to understand though exactly what someone could do to permanently change someone’s experience when listening to music? I take it you’re a musician, or maybe used to be? what do/did you play?

clevername 7/6/2013 - 10:55 pm

Maybe it would be best if you are never able to understand how such a thing could happen.

It was never my career, but it was my “thing,” for a long time. I always had “the musical ear,” and though i wasn’t exactly a vocalist, i had some vocal ability. I started learning guitar at ~11, and aside from a few extended breaks, was always pretty serious and dedicated about it. There was a time my “chops” were pretty good, but I just never reached the level i wanted to reach, mostly due to circumstances beyond my control.

About a year and a half ago i just… couldn’t do it anymore. Every song i’d hear would make me feel terrible, even the stuff i used to love. I’ll even say that i still love all those favorites, but i just can’t listen to them.

It’s all just noise now. It’s like something convinced me that all music is just… pointlessly poignant, emphatic emotionalism… or something. It’s all overly positive, or tragically hopeful, or artificially whatever…

It got to a point where liking the sounds wasn’t enough to tolerate the flawed messages. So many lyricists are so full of shit… and those who aren’t, seem to only sing revolting truths that make me cringe.

Most music just triggers me now. It all brings pain, in different ways, for different reasons.

Painman 7/7/2013 - 12:02 am

Yeah, I’m a lyricist myself, I like to think I’m quite talented. I’ve written loads but apart from a band I was in at college years ago I’ve not turned them into music yet, been busy trying to get my singing to a standard good enough to hopefully get somewhere! .. I very much WISH I could say I had ‘the musical ear’ too but I don’t really, Have been trying to develop one tough.

Music is whatever you interpret it to be I guess, maybe you just need to find something that re ignites your passion? or maybe try to be a bit less critical with it? I listen to some stuff with ridiculous lyrics but yet I enjoy the tune ..

clevername 7/7/2013 - 12:28 am

You don’t need a great voice to succeed as a vocalist. Just a relatable message and enough range and control to nail the notes you need.

I personally find the most appreciation in lyrics that are sung almost as if they were just spoken that way in conversation. Like if you took a phrase you’d speak in real life, and built music around it, so that it ends up having the same type of cadence and emphasis that it would, if you had just said it to someone.

I know some music theory, can read tab, but not sheet. I’ve done a lot of improv and abstract experimentalism, even had a few cool song ideas, built from core riffs or rhythmic expressions… but at some point i just felt like i might as well just half-mute the strings and make noise, because what’s the point of passionately crafting something that only a few people will ever enjoy? Unless you “win the rock star lottery,” it’s a ***** to make a living with music. And if you have to make a living some other way, you don’t really have enough time and energy left to really focus on music. Then you end up with trite, cliché, typically rehashed, slapped-together-sounding stuff that everyone will accuse of being “a copy of a copy.”

So much “music” has already been written and played… it’s hard to find any space between what exists, to make anything new or original that’s still appealing, and isn’t too bizarrely abstract.

Idk. It’s complicated.

I don’t mean to come off as discouraging, but i question whether it’s possible to acquire “the musical ear” through training. I can’t help but think of all the times i’ve seen people on american idol who “were trained,” but still sounded like they might have been tone-deaf (or rather more accurately: “pitch deaf”).

Physically hitting the pitch is one thing, knowing whether you’re at pitch, is another. If your difficulty is only in the performance aspect, but not identification, then you can surely train that. But if you have trouble “hearing pitch,” then i’m not sure.

Still, not all musicians are “born for it.” Look at Bob Dylan. (okay maybe he was born for it, but in a different way)

Ultimately, what matters is the songs themselves, more than anything else. “Close enough” is all the “talent” you really need. Focus on writing good songs, and don’t leave your instruments to wither. But like anything else involving writing, you must have something to write about, and that requires life experience.

SadBk 7/7/2013 - 10:00 am

I can relate. I used to think “as long as I have this, I’ll be okay” — not even realizing that one’s enjoyment of ANYTHING can be poisoned or ruined. I remember your difficulty with music (after I unknowingly triggered :\ so sorry)… it’s worse than mine. I can at least carve out a little niche of “acceptable” songs. And mine’s only lasted one year. If time truly does heal all wounds, it takes its motherfucking time doing it.

For a while my Sims game (I play Sims2) was poisoned too, but after about 6 months I tried it and found it wasn’t… soon got re-addicted… now I just stay away from one particular neighborhood that would make me lose it. Can’t go there yet. Maybe I never will, but I don’t have to, there’s all the other ones to play…

Are you still anxiously checking your email? I HATE that feeling. I feel like once I end on a positive note, that’s it, it can be done, no more emailing, nothing initiated by me… then he might write something small, which makes me false-happy… but usually it’s my will breaking down and I just HAVE to say a little something. Always shallow, now, because anything else won’t get a response. I’m pissed at myself now because my last shallow-but-relevant-to-his-interests one didn’t even get a response, which makes me irrationally angry, and convinced that he now hates me. Why couldn’t he just tell me to fuck off instead of go for the “let’s be friends” bullshit? So I have a bad taste in my mouth, and the only thing that will rinse it out is a friendly little something from his end. THEN I can go back to being strong/ignoring him peacefully… I hope. NO RELAPSING.

Anyway. The last time “words happened” that had any significance was October. And as predicted, they were ignored. Not shallow, you see. But that’s okay… as soon as I sent that email I became terrified that he WOULD answer it. Maybe his way is better. Keep it simple and shallow, don’t show anyone what’s truly in your heart. Tell someone you’re still going to love them after you dump them and just let them wonder “for how long.”

Sorry I babbled… just wanted to say I can relate… but as you can see I’m quite verbose… bah.

clevername 7/7/2013 - 7:53 pm

after my previous comment, i started to realize the irony of discussing music and musical talent/development, when i was just talking about how the person i wrote to, ruined music for me.

This has happened many times over the course of years, and believe it or not, i was not always the one initiating, and was not just inferring positive or “hopeful” indications. It was at a level i almost have to call “blatant.” I have to call it psychological torture, because i’m quite literal like that.

The “anxious email checking” feeling usually lasts for quite a while… because whether or not any response may come, it could be up to a month or more before i receive it, and i have no idea what it might say.

And i know this happens if i allow myself to send anything, and i know i will want to send, if i write at all. I know i will want to write, if i even allow myself to think… but thinking is something that i can’t completely stop. Sometimes, as mentioned near the top of the OP, some trivial thing just inexplicably sends me to a place where i can’t help but think “happy thoughts” of impossible things… and that infuriates me. It’s a long, hard struggle out of that place, every time, and far too easy to just suddenly be transported right back there. All this amounts to a process i can’t adequately control, which is too great a requirement on my coping mechanisms, which completely disrupts my life. The only ways that have proven effective in minimizing this, are totally isolating myself from anything that *might* trigger that occurrence… which includes avoiding all music. But it’s impossible to completely avoid music, and you only really realize that when you try. It’s everywhere… and the things that i am involuntarily exposed to, are often the most triggering kind. Pop, emo, sad songs, love songs, songs about irrational hopes and determination and waiting forever for what will remain gone… so i want nothing to do with “that world.”

As someone who used to pretty much just go along to get along, just go with the flow, and take things as they come… i now want to control every aspect of my environment, because of things i can’t control within myself.

As for “ending on a positive note…”

I’ve long since given up on that. The best i can do is end on a neutral note.

The last time she initiated verbal contact, was a month after the last thing i said, which, after a string of many things, i was finally prepared to just leave it at that. I had no intention of writing anything else. And so i was just leaving it where i put it down, with no intention of ever picking it up again. But then, seemingly out of nowhere, i receive an email containing an obviously provocative song-quote… and i just went off.

And then she had the audacity to suggest that i shouldn’t be angry, and implied expectation of me “getting” whatever she was trying to “say without saying.” But how can i know? She has proven that i can’t really know who she is, or what she means. I know who i observed and interacted with, when there was a “we,” but she’s gone out of her way to not be that, whether she ever really was, or not. The person i miss, no longer exists; so how can i know what this other strange woman might have meant by some cryptic song quote, which she then refused to clarify?

If you want me to understand, then explain. But if you won’t explain, don’t blame me for not understanding, and for being angry that you’re mad that i don’t understand what a stranger won’t explain. And on top of that, it’s invalid to take offense if i judge you by your actions, and the content of your character, especially when that’s all i have to work with anymore. I see actions, i see lack of actions and words, and i see distance. I can only “assume” intent, but no other explanation fits. If i’m wrong, then explain. Otherwise, STFU and GTFO my life!

Still, i can’t help but want that person i remember. But she’s gone. It’s infuriating… profoundly depressing… utterly agonizing… and just plain sucks.

There is no one else, and there will be no one else, because that’s just the way life is.

Honestly, i did immediately feel that “shit i hope she never says anything else…” feeling, but i already know how much it sucks to feel that perpetual lack of response void.

It all sucks either way. If she does respond, i hope it’s nothing too nasty, but i wouldn’t put it past her. If she doesn’t… it’s probably “for the best.” She’s not the person i ache for, anymore, anyway. But she was… and that’s the whole problem.

I haven’t been able to bring myself to delete the account i made to use exclusively for her. I feel like it’s the right thing to do, but “what if,” (irrational) and so part of me doesn’t want to. “What if” things i wrote to her, are all i have left… not just of her, but of anything resembling “love?” I know if i’m dead, none of this will matter. I want “this” not to matter, even more than i want a better life.

I hate the idea of never finding anyone else, and missing this terrible **** for the rest of my life. But finding someone else and going through all this again, would probably be worse. I don’t think i’ll have to worry about that, though.

SadBk 7/8/2013 - 1:20 am

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Some people say the only way you move on is by finding someone new. Well. Hmm. It’s not like strolling into Walmart and buying a new coffeemaker. I don’t think it’s fair to the new person, if you’re hung up on someone else — someone they can’t live up to the memory of. It’s better to allow enough time to pass to heal your wounds in whatever other way one can do so…

…but obviously I don’t know shit, so maybe they’re right. Maybe it’s NOT just perpetuating the cycle of hurt. I just don’t understand how they do it. I’m not one of them. I wish I could be. I’m in love with someone that’s not real, and the feelings are as intense as when he WAS real. It’s pathetic.

You’re right — it only gets worse. If we make better choices as we get older, it somehow hurts more and more each time as we get closer to what we want but can never quite grasp. I found someone broken in the same area that I’m broken in, which had never happened before, that was quite intoxicating… and it still wasn’t real, wasn’t enough. I’ll never have that particular luxury again.

I hope she responds in some kindly manner, and that it perhaps closes some door of addiction for you, if that’s even possible. *hugs*

clevername 7/8/2013 - 1:55 am

But that’s just it.

If the only way to move on is to find someone else, but you can’t find someone else until you move on… that’s just a paradox.

“Other people” need to accept that sometimes things happen to people that never really heal, or they never completely “get over.” Damaged people are still people, and, like myself, are still fully capable of appreciating another person.

But nope! Gotta “get over it and move on” first. Which is apparently only possible by finding someone else. Which apparently isn’t supposed to happen until after getting over and moving on.

I can only assume this is humanity’s way of thinning the herd. If the one who meant so much doesn’t want me, well then i must not be good enough for anyone.

But as soon as i actually say that about myself, oh, then i’m suddenly wrong! Somehow i’m wrong to state the truth i do not choose, which is forced upon me by those who blatantly deny doing so. I’m somehow wrong, despite stating what is being done to me by the rest of the world.

But i know i’m not wrong. I wonder if they know, too… or if they really believe their own lies. Sometimes i think they all do this on purpose, and it makes me angry… and other times, i think they’re all just cattle, sheep, dirty apes, who have no idea wtf is going on in the world. I guess that makes me angry too, but in a more “fuck it, i give up” sort of way.

I don’t need anyone to live up to a memory of a fantasy. I just need one compatible person to be real. Apparently, that is just too much to ask. Just one compatible person out of billions. But really, if you break it down, i’ll never have a chance to meet 99% of all those billions of people. I’ll only meet maybe a few thousand, and of them, most will be completely blinded by their environmental influences, and “tainted” by every experience they have, prior to our potential meeting.

My only real “choice” is whether i will continue to live a life i don’t want, because what i do want will not be available to me. It’s really not even a choice. Sooner or later, the distress caused by the only life available, which is mostly what i don’t want, will deteriorate me beyond any sustainability.

All i can really do with my life, is keep trying to do things i’ve always known i can’t do. Knowingly striving against utter futility, with zero hope of any chance to ever reach anything worth living for.

My ONLY “hope,” is that i could somehow not be distracted by knowing how bleak and dismal my life has been and will actually be… so that i could possibly focus on making lots of money. It’s pretty unlikely to work out, but that’s all i’ve got now. And i was always someone who thought “money isn’t everything,” and that experiences, how we feel during them, what they mean to us… is what is really important.

And so… what’s really important is over; probably never really existed for me. A few irrelevant people who will otherwise never amount to much of anything, might have sad lives if i leave before they’re ready. But those same people are responsible for many of the conditions which have hindered my development and prevented me from doing the things i needed to do, to produce results for myself, which could have fulfilled me. So i’m not really worried about making a few people sad. It’s unfortunate they will be upset… but that pales in comparison to how i value my ruined and unlived life.

Anyway… i’m not sure i actually want her to respond. I know she can’t say anything i’d actually want to know. It wouldn’t even be “her” responding, anyway. It would only be some heinous abomination that still pilots the flesh of someone i thought i knew. I just wish she would have explained the song quote, instead of being a *****. And here i am, still overwhelmed by the urge to waste time and energy on something from which i will never benefit.

I think that maybe for lots of people, it really is like just strolling into walmart and buying a new coffeemaker. That must be why they act so appalled that we struggle with such things so much.

SadBk 7/8/2013 - 5:28 pm

“You think too much.” Cliche, though I suppose in your case it’s true? I’ve been told I’m too serious and I suspect you have too. Ignorance truly is bliss.

If you don’t mind another person not living up to that fantasy, then I think there’s still hope for you.

Trying to focus on other things instead of what you really want is so difficult. I am grateful that I can at least lose myself, for a while, in fantasy and other distractions. So I just don’t accomplish anything. Oh well. I don’t really understand why anyone should care if I kill myself or not, but on some level I know that they do, and I can stick it out for their sakes. I’ve asked my therapist if she can help me learn to live without what I want instead of endlessly painfully wanting it, and she said she “won’t allow” me to believe that I can’t have love. So, life is still over.

If others can buy a new coffeemaker without much thought or discretion, I wonder why I (and others like me) am the one who allegedly has “shallow relationships.” I don’t know how to do it right, obviously. Deep feelings but shallow relationships? Whatevs.

clevername 7/8/2013 - 9:22 pm

People who don’t think enough, are often the ones telling me i think too much. So, who are they to know the appropriate amount of thinking? How is their opinion valid? I don’t think it is. If i don’t think, i end up stuck in the same pit forever. Thinking, discovering the right course of action, and enacting it, is the only way out, or forward.

Ignorance is indeed bliss. If i didn’t know these feelings, how could they bother me?

“…learn to live without what I want instead of endlessly painfully wanting it…”

Buddhism can help with that. If desires are unattainable and painful, then remove the desire to remove the pain. Life is suffering. Suffering is caused by desire. To eliminate suffering, eliminate desire.

Remove the need for what hurts to go without, if you can’t, instead, take action to attain what should not be gone without.

It’s sort of unethical for a therapist to decide whether you should be allowed to release yourself from an unattainable desire. What you believe is up to you, not anyone else.

If a therapist tells me that they “won’t allow” me to believe i can’t have love, i will say: “how will you stop me from believing that? You can’t. I dare you to try.”

Most coffeemakers seem quite averse to being purchased by yours-truly. It’s like their price suddenly sky-rockets when i walk down the isle to browse.

SadBk 7/9/2013 - 11:56 pm

I envy the ones who don’t think, though, because of course it’s simpler for them.

I tried to get into Buddhism and I just couldn’t do it. The whole impermanence thing just… rattles me, or doesn’t sit well with me. Maybe I’m just stubborn.

Well, to be fair, I suppose I shouldn’t put it like that out of context… you’ve probably heard that therapists take on the role of what you most need them to be in your sessions? (not sure what other role they could take other than parent, or mentor… not like they can be intimate O.o) She is a mother figure to me and I’m the one that brings what’s “allowed” into the picture, in a joking sort of way at first but I do sort of want her to tell me what to do >.> Apparently if I didn’t have such low self esteem I wouldn’t feel so much pain. But self esteem is also not something you can buy in the coffeemaker aisle… speaking of which… maybe it’s not you personally so much as it’s you giving off bad vibes? Like of the “I’m fucked up so stay away” variety? Idk.

clevername 7/10/2013 - 12:37 am

Hi again.

Maybe it’s “bad vibes,” but i think it’s more about the involuntary stuff that i can’t change, being either readily apparent, or sub-consciously detectable. You know that whole instinctual “women’s intuition” thing. Plus, there’s also some likely accurate judging going on. I don’t look like i would be what anyone is looking for. The “right ones” would never get close enough to find any of the good parts. And if i’m the one approaching, i would need to have something “better than the next guy” to offer, in order to even have a chance, which i really don’t.

On some level i know that whoever she might be, would most likely enjoy time we could share, but i, and they, also know they are looking for more than i can be. “Self esteem” or “confidence” might be good bait, but either the hook isn’t sharp enough, or the line breaks. Metaphor is wonderful, isn’t it?

I don’t know how to explain it exactly, but i’ve never felt right about false confidence, and that’s the only kind i can really have, because i know better than to think what i actually am, is what anyone actually wants. I’m not the one who chooses to allow that to prevent me from enjoying those parts of life. The truth is that i’m just not good enough. I know what i “could do” about it, but… like i was reminded a while ago when rereading one of my earliest comments here, regarding something Letmesleep said… i’ve taken steps in the right directions, and realized just how much further away i am, than seems feasible to traverse. It’s like i already know, even if i do all i can, for the rest of my days, i’ll never get to the place or become the ways that makes the journey worth the determination to continue. I’ll never reach the place where persistence pays off. Maybe even if i had 50 years to try, maybe even if i get there tomorrow, i’ll find it still isn’t enough. Maybe it’s literally impossible for me to ever “have a nice life.”

I’ve thought for a while that “lack of access” was always my problem. But maybe that’s only part of it. Maybe i’d still fail, even if i had access to everything i think i need, to “make it.”

Lots of people are “fucked up.” I’m one who understands that, and isn’t looking for someone who has miraculously made it to middle-age without being damaged. I would have no business with such a person, and said person would be utterly unable to relate to my experiences. I need someone who knows what it’s like to be damaged and still need someone. Most of those are either recluses, or locked into codependency with someone who supports them. Or, they are, like most, still looking for some “perfect fantasy,” and will likely see things about me from beyond contact range, that would convince them to pass on by.

I’m just being honest. I have neither financial nor physical prowess. Almost every female is looking for one or both of those things. Some won’t admit it, some will… but the truth seems pretty consistent throughout the last 20 years that i’ve actually paid attention to such things. And you know… why should i expect it to be any different? I bet if i were female, i’d be looking for those same things. I might still value other traits, but it would be unlikely for me to “waste my time” on someone who obviously doesn’t have the two most important features. I’d probably feel bad about feeling that way, while also having to justify it. Why shouldn’t anyone want what they want? Why shouldn’t anyone want what’s best? Why should anyone “settle” for less than what they really want, if they have reason to believe better options exist? It’s not about who i am. It’s about what i am. That is what the evidence shows. I suppose i could be wrong… but i feel that is highly unlikely. I guess i need someone to prove it, to prove me wrong, to prove that something about me is more valuable than what i’m not, and will never be. Once upon a time, i met someone who was able to temporarily convince me that “who i am” actually mattered, enough.

If i can’t find that again… then what’s the point? I don’t think it’s too much to ask, but it seems like everyone else does. So maybe it is. Maybe me being good enough for someone, just isn’t realistic, or even possible. Maybe i literally cannot have “love.” It’s surely easier said than done, to “remove the desire for that, which lacking, causes suffering.” I can only think of one way to truly remove that particular desire. That’s not what i want to be the only or best solution, but i really don’t see any other option. Plus, there are copious other problems i can’t even deal with, which also seem to have the same unfortunately singular effective solution.

One of these days, either the world will decide for me, or i’ll finally feel like i’ve mourned my own life enough, and am truly ready to just go. I try not to think that way, but… i’ve always been a realist. No amount of wishing things were different, will make anything different. But, you know… i wish things were different. I don’t see any real way to make them so.

theobserver 7/10/2013 - 1:23 am

I think you can fall in “love” with anyone if you allow yourself to.. whether its the type of love you are both looking for, is a different story. Perhaps financial or physical prowess will catch a girl’s eye, but there has to be something more.. of course like I said, you can be in “love” with anyone you please, so the person may not indeed be “right” for you.. and you’ll just make it work.. and stay “in love”.

But I don’t know.. I think there are people out there who will be able to judge exactly how you feel without any words – just given a certain look you both receive a mutual understanding of what each others feeling at a given time and place.. although people like that are hard to find.

You have a really lovely mind – very interesting, I might say, and its a shame that you haven’t found the “one” to share it with.. maybe if not in this lifetime, but in the next you will be able to find her (if you believe in that).

If you’re enjoyable to be around, she’ll be willing to overlook many things, I would think. Happiness is the top priority for a person, right? so it makes sense.. but then again, people seem insatiable.. and often can’t see when they’ve already got something good because they keep wanting something better..

You should keep trying, and try new things that you haven’t done before.. perhaps you’ll find something that you didn’t expect.

clevername 7/10/2013 - 2:40 am

I appreciate your comment.

Whether i can “love” is not the question. It’s whether anyone would reciprocate, or even allow themselves to encounter a scenario where that decision might be made. I am not interested in falling into unrequited love, ever again (nor falling into a mutual love which becomes unrequited due to what i can only refer to as “bullshit”).

Sometimes unspoken conveyance can occur. I’ve been there, and it’s nothing short of amazing. However, i also think that very few are capable of accurately interpreting such things, and many are likely to misinterpret the facial expressions and body language of another, due to their own expectations (likely mostly based on past experiences).

I don’t really believe in anything “after” this. And i’m pretty sure that if reincarnation of some persistent part of my “energy,” or “soul,” if you will, actually occurs, that i will have no memory of this life. The idea of reincarnation, even completely removed from this existence (or perhaps especially so), does more to hasten my wish for an end, than to delay or decrease it. If i thought i could just have a new life, a fresh chance, even without anything i’ve learned this time… i can’t see how that would be any worse, or would not be somehow better.

I would like to believe there is more than just this one miserable, ruined life… but i see no justifiable reason to expect any such thing. It’s a nice idea… but it’s probably just that, and even if it does actually occur, i probably won’t even know i was ever this “me” that i am now, or that i had ever existed before that “next life.”

I’m probably not all that enjoyable to be around. I suppose it depends on what those i’ve encountered would find enjoyable. Most people enjoy expensive things, or things that the non-thinkers tend to gravitate toward. It’s not that i’m averse to fun, and if i’m in the company of someone i find appealing, who i know finds me appealing, i’m very unlikely to be displeasing or unpleasant. I’m so far from being a “jerk,” and i see so many guys who just don’t even know how to act… and far too many women who seem to find justification in tolerating foul behavior, in order to retain accessibility of their preferred physical features in a mate. It seems most women would choose to tolerate quite a lot of abuse, in order to benefit physically and be financially supported… while “guys like me” (though few we likely are) get told that they hope we find someone, and that we’re interesting, etc.

I suppose happiness can be the top priority… but for some, we’re too busy struggling to survive, to let happiness take precedence. Far too many people have only thoroughly miserable and inadequate survival options, which barely enable survival, without leaving room to afford what most people require to experience “happiness.” Most people are too busy surviving, to have any real “fun,” or to contemplate the world so deeply, as to understand the things that make happiness quite difficult to attain.

I have a recently developed “saying” that i’ve been fiddling with for a while, that i thought about when reading one of your other recent comments:

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Absolute knowledge corrupts, absolutely.

In other words: finding the truths behind the hardest and deepest questions, often reveals the very truths we hoped to disprove, which cannot be unseen. That is the essence of corruption.

Knowledge is indeed dangerous. That’s why ignorance is bliss. There are truths that can only hurt those who perceive and understand them.

And yet… still… i have no need to question my capacity for love. I am corrupted by the truth that lies beyond the veil of illusion. I think “most people” would find that somewhat terrifying. That probably has a lot to do with why i find so few people who are even capable of compatibility… not to mention my inferiority in the two most important and highly valued traits.

It’s not that i’m “so terrible.” I’m really not. It’s that those people who see through the filter of illusions i’ve shed, expect far more than i can ever be. There may be many billions of people in the world… but for me, there are probably at most, two or three, who could actually “enjoy” both who, and what, i am.

Plus, i don’t want to find myself in a situation where i have to maintain close to 100% of my “output” at all times, just to barely meet someone’s minimums.

theobserver 7/10/2013 - 4:50 am

Haha, I love how you write long replies for everything.

The part I wrote about “love” was assuming that both people were willing to take a chance.. which I suppose is the main issue. In truth it would actually be quite difficult to get in that situation, especially as it seems you are the type of person to fall for someone rather deeply as opposed to having several fleeting moments of affection towards people. But I guess, maybe you will one day.. find yourself in that situation – a small chance is better than no chance at all eh?

Personally I don’t believe in the afterlife either, that part was aimed to be reassuring more than anything else.. but since you don’t believe in reincarnation, I regret mentioning that as I do not want you to hasten your wish for an end. There have been so many instances in history where persistence has been proved to be futile.. and people have gone and died trying to accomplish these things knowing that.

Relating to your previous post about never reaching the end destination that you so desire given any amount of time.. on one hand, perhaps you could argue that giving up and travelling further down the path doesn’t make a difference.. but on the other hand, maybe it’s the journey that matters most. After all, whether you give up or keep going will in effect determine the type of person you are when you die and how others will look upon that / remember you. But maybe you’ll argue that once you’re dead, none of it matters or that you don’t want to be remembered. However, wouldn’t you rather die knowing that you gave it your all.. that you waited for the faintest miracle to happen.. and squeezed out every opportunity you’ve been given?

I like your “saying”: “Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Absolute knowledge corrupts, absolutely.”

There will of course, be a limit to how much one can know because “the more you know, the more you don’t know” and on top of that.. nothing really is for certain, it’s just how you deem it to be.. Ignorance is truly bliss, and I think a lot of us choose ignorance half the time.. like not asking the questions we don’t want answered.. only hearing the things we want to hear, etc, etc.. but I guess this all ties back into “the more you know, the more you don’t know”.. because once you’ve answered one difficult question, you keep finding more and more to answer.. and because you can’t resist.. because it keeps you up at night.. and gnaws at the back of your mind, you end up in this spiral where you keep on learning things that often are best not to be known.. (this is just my opinion of course..)

Sometimes it’s just nice to keep chasing fantastical ideals.. and keep pretending that they exist.. perhaps that why you find yourself in situations where people expect more than you think you can ever be. It’s just hope – hope for the best, and expect the worst.. although we often see the extremes where one outweighs the other significantly, in a person’s eyes..

Not quite sure what I had hoped to achieve in my reply.. hopefully I didn’t offend you in any way D:

clevername 7/10/2013 - 6:07 am

There was no offense. I am very accustomed to the frequently encountered need to discuss “meta-life.” Before, after, all the stuff we can’t really know…

I like the thoughtful replies.

And you’re right. It’s the journey that matters, and mine has sucked quite a lot. My journey cannot become anything worthwhile, until i reach and surpass a certain destination, which i may never reach. The only things really happening with my “journey” currently, are needless complications and wasted time, due to the fantastically elevated expectations of most people i have, and am likely to encounter.

The only major difference between “trying as long as i can” and “calling it now,” is the value and amount of suffering i will experience, versus whether anything worthwhile is happening during my journey.

I don’t really care how anyone might remember me. I used to care… but i’m fairly certain that no matter what i do or don’t, almost no one, if anyone at all, will ever have really understood me, or appreciated what i tried to do, or any of what i went through. People will think whatever they think, regardless of whether it’s right or whether it’s what i want.

Honestly… my dog is the only reason i’m still here. There are other contributing factors, but that’s the one that matters. He’s a dog, can’t understand if i’m just gone, won’t be okay without me. No one else really understands him either.

Sometimes not even that is enough. But so far, it’s been enough to guilt me into staying. Should one of us depart, the other will soon follow.

theobserver 7/10/2013 - 6:58 am

What if you were thrown into a very different setting far from your own (location-wise) as a means of starting anew? Do you think there’d be a chance of it changing somewhat dramatically? Sometimes when you’re immersed in a completely foreign culture you experience a different way of living.. I don’t know, just a thought..

Just as a dumb confession, when I was younger, I used to think that if I somehow undertook all the sufferings that could be encountered in the world.. there wouldn’t be any left so no one would feel bad – so it’d be worth it. Haha, a bit naive and I don’t think that’s how it works.

I do understand that there will come a time when the amount of suffering will override any chance of things getting better. And I admire your friendship with your dog. Very loyal and caring, both ways it seems.

It’s just sad that sometimes that particular outcome is inevitable.. I don’t understand why such things like pain.. and misery.. need to exist at such great levels.. that people would take their own life.. People always just say “That’s just the way it is”, “Life is unfair”, “You can choose to be happy” but that’s just not good enough..

Anyways, enough of me rambling. I wish you and your dog the very best <3

clevername 7/10/2013 - 8:50 am

The different setting would have to be different in a few particular ways. Just any old “difference” won’t suffice. I would like to believe that relocating to the right place would indeed have dramatically positive impacts, but i can’t really be sure. I’ve given that some extensive thought in the past. I think of that quite often, actually, but i just don’t have a way. I don’t think what i need is so much a “foreign” experience, but rather a more appropriate, more reasonable, more compatible locale. I live in one of the worst states for non-religious people… because i don’t have a feasible better option. If i had a reliable way to support myself, i’d move now.

I like the idea of absorbing all the suffering, as a means to fix the world. I wouldn’t really call it “naive,” unless you actually thought such a thing was possible. It’s a noble ideal, at least. If one person were capable of such a feat, willing, and actually did so… i’m sure most of the world would consider it a sacred act of self-sacrifice. But then it starts to sound almost “jesus-y.” lol.

My dog has a story. It’s rather poignant and bittersweet, but… well, i don’t feel like it right now. 🙂

Someone recently shared a japanese poem on this site, which did much to succinctly convey how i often feel. Something about… helplessly watching the approaching premature end to a life that never blossomed (paraphrased).

The part that most disturbs me is that such pain and misery DO NOT “need” to exist at such great levels. But because “that’s just the way it is,” “life is just unfair,” and “people are people, and will do what they do…” They do what they do, and cause more problems than necessary. Particularly religious people do this. They so commonly persecute anyone who isn’t “one of them,” while preaching from the pulpit about how their savior was crucified and their people persecuted. Seeing what i’ve seen has always driven me toward secular, naturalist, humanistic morality. It’s all about avoiding causing undue suffering to other beings, and attempting to eliminate the suffering that may be caused. I’ve also been into buddhism and taoism… but no one set of ideals has ever “nailed it.” I like the core of buddhism, based around the four noble truths. I like the ideas of “the way” in taoism. But i can’t label myself either of those things. Philosophically, i’m basically an existential materialist. I believe that what i do, and what is experienced, is what truly matters. I can’t go around expecting the world to somehow become my ideals. But that’s not to say i lack any. Most of my “ideals” are centered around wishing people would just “get it,” and naturally choose to behave more appropriately, choosing as often as possible to avoid causing unnecessary problems and undue suffering.

And well… no. You can’t just choose to be happy. Some people have options others don’t have, and some of those options can be chosen to increase enjoyment. But that’s not everyone. Not everyone has the option to be happy. Not everyone is equal, despite everyone being inherently entitled to their own existence.

I think that if i could find a way to make enough money to own a “nice” house (my definition of nice is basically having enough space and no leaks or problems), and plenty of time to do whatever i feel “matters,” with my remaining time. This might sound silly but, i would love to live in a semi-rural area and grow lots of all natural, all organic “kindbud,” have a workshop where i can make and build things, mess with computers, play video games, make music, write, think, feel connected to nature on a regular basis…

I can imagine a life alone that i would be content with. It’s just that i can’t figure out how to afford it, and “time waits for no man.” I figure i don’t have a whole lot of time left, and at some point, the math will rule out most of what i want to do. At that point… i will only want to be peacefully away from everything that bothers me, and just do nothing. And that’s not really worth the amount of effort it would take to achieve. So few things ever really are. So in the end: am i really missing out on anything? Did i ever truly possess the potential i feel has been squandered? Maybe it just doesn’t matter.

SadBk 7/10/2013 - 9:37 am

“Who you are” should matter, and supposedly there are enough compatible people out there for everyone that we all should end up with someone who makes us happy if we keep looking… but… pffffffft that sounds like wishful thinking to me. Putting yourself out there obviously helps more than being a recluse… but how many of those “out there” are going to be compatible when, as you say, the fucked-up recluse would-be-more-compatibles stay in?

I used to think I needed someone “normal” to balance my crazy, because two wrongs don’t make a right, and if I can’t even handle my own crap how can I handle someone else’s? But now I tend to agree that another fuck-up would be the way to go, because the normals can’t possibly understand. My ex had some issues, sure, but I would put him more in the normal category… at least, he doesn’t have a diagnosable personality disorder. Maybe if he was more messed up he wouldn’t have ditched me? Who knows. I’ll never understand it, I’ve just accepted that me being myself drove him away.

I’ve been with good-looking guys… and I’ve been with guys others have deemed “ugly”, or “you can do better” just based on their looks, but to me, when I was really into them, they weren’t ugly at all. The mental connection IS more important to me. The financial… hmm, that one is tougher. Am I one of those who “won’t admit it”, or does it not matter? I have NEVER been with a guy who has more money than me. In reading my old journals (I’m now up to 2001) it’s kind of painful to read about the relationship I was in at that time with a really nice guy, whom I should have been content having fun with, at that stage, just a few months in… but I was worried about the future and how he didn’t have any plans and didn’t seem to be thinking of or planning for some kind of future with me. That did bother me a lot. I don’t know if it should have. I’m thinking it shouldn’t, because like I said, we’d only been seeing each other a few months. I always want too much.

But! My ex from last year had quite a bit less money than me and it didn’t bother me at all…. perhaps because he was like me, jumping ahead too soon — he DID envision a future for us. I wanted to help him out a bit with finances and he wouldn’t let me. (maybe THAT drove him away too) I have some issues with trying to “buy” people. And feeling in control if they are indebted to me, I think >.> That’s bad. And I know it never even works.

Aside from that… yeah, confidence is definitely appealing. Crushing on a wuss who won’t make a move is eventually a turn-off (and of course for some it’s an immediate turn-off)… especially when I’ve felt encouraged enough to make moves myself that are met with wussiness. I can only assume that if someone isn’t willing to take any risk at all, then he just doesn’t want it bad enough, and what kind of relationship would we even have? I’m probably a bit old-fashioned but I think it’s the girl’s job to give signs of interest and the guy’s to make the move. Some are bitches about it and some give unclear signs so it’s not like the guy’s job is easy… but I feel like I’m enough of a straight shooter that a guy knows if I like him. (then again, some guys are dense about such things…lol)

I should put all that in the past tense because I can’t do any of it any more. If I lure some hapless guy in it will only be to somehow drive him away and I can’t go through that again. I need to forget last year ever happened, the bad AND the good. I’d be so much better off if I could do that :\

clevername 7/10/2013 - 10:31 am

Oh, awesome, i get to use one of my sayings again!

” ‘should’ and ‘is’ are two different things.”

People suppose lots of things very inaccurately, especially from privileged perspectives.

There are not “enough compatible people out there for everyone.”

“Putting myself out there” will certainly only help me encounter people who are likely to be “out there,” and i tend to think anyone “compatible” will most likely feel the same need to reject society and avoid being “out there,” just about as much as i do.

Example: i don’t drink, hate being around drunken fools, so i dislike bars, or any atmosphere/environment where the primary goal is to consume alcohol and “act out.” I’m also broke, so there’s virtually no chance i’ll be wasting money on going “out” to be around people i primarily, predictably dislike, with whom i am simply incompatible.

I don’t need someone to balance me. I can “balance” myself. Therefore, i need someone like that. Broken but whole, “balanced” on her own. I’m not looking to be a grown woman’s parent, nor am i looking for another parent for myself.

Another thing i thought of: with regard to my confidence: the level of confidence you’ll perceive, will almost always match the level of interest i perceive from “you.” If you’re not interested, you won’t think i’m confident. If i can’t tell you’re disinterested, why should i act like i think you’re into me? If you’re not into me, what is this “confidence” people expect me to show? It’s so stupid. How can anyone be confident, when all i ever get is rejected, avoided and shunned? So no, i’m not going to risk feeling even worse, for what i perceive as a likely slim-to-none chance of a positive reaction to any potential advances. I might find an attractive girl in whatever environment, and simply observe her for a moment or few, and decide very quickly whether i think i have any chance at all. Depending on the attraction level, i might try on a slim chance, or i might not.

It’s not even that i lack confidence. It’s that my realistic evaluation of what i think others will think of me, doesn’t make me think i have a chance. I have plenty of actual confidence about my “good qualities.” The problem is: that’s not enough for “you people.”

Another interesting thing: debts are like promises. People stress and worry themselves to death over repaying… but have you ever really paid attention to how often people just break promises? If you decide you don’t like the debt, or don’t want to deal with the hassle of being obligated to repay it, you can just decide not to honor the promise. You can just say “Ohp! don’t feel like it! Nevermind! Too bad so sad kthxbye!” Most people don’t seem to feel the way i do about them. You don’t make promises you don’t fully intend, and believe yourself able, to keep. That’s the whole /point/ of a “promise.” But like everything else, nothing ‘means’ anything to anyone anymore. It’s all about the first and the biggest and the most and the highest frequency, so you can feel like you won at life.

None of this is personally directed at “you,” because i obviously don’t know you that way.

Anyway… like someone else around here mentioned recently: it’s like everyone is ants in a disturbed-mound-frenzy. It’s profoundly annoying, irritating, frustrating, disappointing, and just… throw my hands up and scoff, because i just don’t even know what to say. The world is stupid and crude and primitive, cruel and harsh, and i am usually not impressed. Finding a valuable individual in all this mess, is a moment that always leaves me pleasantly surprised. Like “oh! hey! not everyone is absolute trash! Fantastic.”

SadBk 7/11/2013 - 1:59 am

Yeah, I was agreeing with you on the whole first half there…? Not sure if you were just expounding (in which case, nevermind) but if you were arguing… dude, I get it 😀

The confidence thing I’m thinking of applies more to a repeated exposure situation. Like, people at work or school that you run into all the time, as opposed to someone you just randomly met once. Guys who ask girls out almost immediately REALLY seem to have confidence… although, if you’ve just met and don’t have any sort of relationship with the person and never have to see them again if they reject you, it’s easier to handle the rejection, yes?

People do break promises pretty casually. “Oops, I lied. Didn’t mean it, sorry, fuck you.” Argh.

I don’t actually despise humanity, though. People generally treat me pretty well. They think I’m nice and all. I view humans as mysterious creatures to be observed… perhaps so I can imitate them enough to get by…

clevername 7/11/2013 - 3:04 am

I was afraid that might come off as argumentative, and forgot to include clarification that it wasn’t intended as such.

If you just met someone, appearance and assumptions based on meeting circumstances, can be the only criteria by which to determine potential interest.

I’m not equipped to entertain “random hot chicks,” so why should i even ask? Should i ask if they want to take /me/ out? lol. I’m sure that would go over really well. Like, so well that i’m convinced i shouldn’t bother. Unless, of course, i’m being intentionally absurd for “shock value,” or something.

But yeah. I’m not beyond adventurously striking up conversation with an attractive and potentially single total stranger. It’s just that my expectations, unlike those of most people, are quite realistic… and so why should i even bother? Literally the only reason is: “because i feel like it.” Even when i know there is no chance. Sometimes i feel like beating my head against that wall, because monk-like perpetual solitude gets really boring sometimes.

The fact is, i am beneath the minimum acceptable requirements for consideration, and cannot afford any “fun.” Everything is just… wrong. I have nothing to offer but time, attention, and good intentions. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to quickly, effectively, reliably generate enough material resources that i could actually have a “life,” but… “everything is just… wrong.”

Everytime i start to get up, i get knocked down and the kicking-while-down never ends. I can’t stay up long enough to get anything done. I fully expect this to be the sum total of my life’s efforts. The only reason i have left to try at all, is because “if you don’t ask, the answer is always ‘no.’ ” But the answer is almost always still ‘no,’ even if i do ask.

So idk. It’s all just… whatever. I don’t have much to lose, and i don’t see much to gain. It’s all just a bunch of dumb, all day, every day. At least i know this doesn’t last forever. Sometimes, it seems like all i can really look forward to, is the moment it’s all finally over.

SadBk 7/11/2013 - 9:54 am

Ah, okay, no worries.

So then perhaps the “it’ll happen when you least expect it” or “when you stop looking for it” cliche applies… I believe in that one, because the only good relationships of mine happened that way (including this last one that ended so confusingly… it was still good, for me, while it was going on) … a person is more attractive when they have a variety of interests and seem well-rounded and all that shit… but a person still has to let themselves be open to possibility or it still won’t happen. So I feel like I need to focus on other things, if for no other reason but that, yet I absolutely can’t, I’m obsessed with my failure and inadequacy and self punishment. Hardly attractive.

In this past year since my downward spiral I’ve only had one guy show interest (aside from a couple on the internet who I don’t really count because they can say whatever from the safe confines of their homes in other countries)… and then he apparently quickly LOST interest. We chatted a bit and it was friendly, not flirty… he gave me his card… told me to look him up on Facebook… I told him I’m not on Facebook anymore (but I spared him my rant)… he wanted me to have the card anyway… so, a couple days later I sent him an email (I sure as hell wasn’t going to call him out of the blue)… no response. Now, it may have gone to his spam folder, and perhaps he doesn’t check it often, but I wasn’t about to do anything else after that because a) it was just a “what the hell” thing for me anyway, I knew it couldn’t really go anywhere and I wouldn’t have lied to the guy about that, and b) obviously he wasn’t THAT interested if he gives a girl a card with his email address but doesn’t bother to check said email in a reasonable amount of time. Oh, and because I learned this on He’s Just Not That Into You, c) he obviously doesn’t care much because he gave me HIS info and didn’t bother to get MY info. For all I know he could hand out cards to every girl he sees and figures one of them might call him. Or he’d build up this Facebook posse of women. He didn’t seem like a player, he looked like a nice guy. Probably my level of looks — not beautiful, but some might consider cute.

I don’t even know why I felt like mentioning that?!

I hope you find other crap to occupy yourself with. Like this website, even! You write such long thoughtful comments to everyone, that’s nice 🙂

clevername 7/11/2013 - 3:47 pm

I’ve been “least expecting” for a very long time. It isn’t happening. I’m pretty sure my current and recent long-term state of existence qualifies as “when you stop looking for it.”

I haven’t had “relationships.” I’ve had a few encounters a long time ago, and a devastating heartbreak a few years ago, with someone i really should have avoided in the first place… but it was just “one of those things.” She was just irresistible; both due to how she was, and also the way things were. Just one of those things where you discover what can only be described as “the love of your life,” who then turns out to be a monster; the stuff nightmares and tv-dramas are made of. I stared into that abyss enough to become quite similar to that which has long-since consumed me.

It’s one thing to vindictively insist that “everything she said was a lie,” but it’s quite another to watch as everything she insists is true, is proven false… only to ultimately result in exactly the outcomes i feared i should expect, but was criticized for doing so. She is either evil to the core, or psycho, or criminally insane. She is a textbook “control freak,” and is surrounded by an illusory fantasy land, false constructs, and a court of loyal and deceived, manipulated subjects, who are all under her “spell.” But she’s no mastermind. She’s probably as oblivious to the manipulation of others, as they all seem to be to hers.


I have lots of interests. It’s just that i don’t have enough time for all of them, and i can’t afford to actually engage most of them, and i’m really just not /that/ interested in anything. I’ve had enough of almost everything other than what i really want. Life has lacked luster for quite a while.

I wouldn’t call myself “well-rounded,” but… maybe that’s not quite as inaccurate as i’d initially guess. I could say that i like nature and being outdoors, just about as much as i like computers and internet. I could say i enjoy silence as much or more than music (blanket music triggers notwithstanding).

What i think is most important, isn’t so much that i “know what i want,” but am completely certain of many things that i absolutely don’t want, and will not accept, and refuse to waste time doing, and will actively reject and avoid, and refuse to allow myself to be exposed, as much as i possibly can. The rest is pretty much “fair game,” despite my preferences for some things.

In short: i don’t mind if someone likes different stuff than i do, or has different favorites. You don’t have to like what i like. You just can’t like what i dislike. And you can’t demand i like what you like, or that i change to like something i have already decided i will never want. (the general ‘you’)

Of course i’m always “open to the possibility.” That problem is one i’m not responsible for creating. It’s actually them, who are not open to the possibility, with Me.

Being “open to the possibility” and “thinking/expecting that possibility will or should occur,” are entirely different. It’s like this: I’m an atheist, an ‘anti-theist,’ but i’m still “open to the possibility” that there could actually be a “God,” who is powerful enough to be capable of removing any trace of “His” existence, or not even leaving any identifiable “marks” in the first place. It’s “possible,” but i see no reason to justify the belief and subsequent assertions that said possibility “is true.”

There could be stuff we don’t know and can’t locate. It’s just that i don’t think that particular “possibility” is true. I don’t think it’s a justifiable belief. And in the face of overwhelming lack of any evidence, i can’t be around people who think that is a reasonable thing to justifiably believe, to the point of insisting and persecuting those who have justifiable reason to disbelieve utterly unsupported claims.

I see no justifiable reason to expect anyone to be open to the possibility of wanting me.

I have to laugh at myself for writing so much already, based entirely upon responding to only your first paragraph in that last response. lol. I look at the rest of your comment and have… probably a few thousand more words worth of stuff i want to say… and actually, i didn’t even finish responding to that part.

I’ll just say… i find it paradoxical and ironic, that, i’m forced to choose between feigning higher and more varied interests, in order to increase my chances to be perceived as appealing, so that i can get what actually interests me… or, artificial apathy, in order to attempt to eliminate painfully unfulfilled desire for what is unattainable.

And just because it may or may not be relevant: i once sent a barely acquainted stranger, upon whom i had intensely crushed, a message on facebook. I figured she just chose not to respond. Eventually, i received a response, including the claim that she had somehow not received my message for EIGHT MONTHS (evidently it arrived intact with its original sent date). It was apparently floating in cyberspace somewhere, all that time. It seems so weird, i almost can’t believe it… but this /is/ facebook, so… maybe.

SadBk 7/11/2013 - 11:08 pm

I’m curious about the non-relationship with the evil **** but only what you’re comfortable disclosing, of course. Your brief description calls to mind a person I encountered online, and spoke to on the phone many times, but never met in person, several years ago. He had a certain charm about him that drew people in… perhaps people with certain vulnerabilities like myself… I’m always seeking validation from others and looking to feel special and he did that. I knew he was insane from the beginning; that was part of the intrigue. But then he revealed himself to be a master manipulator, and I suppose I’ll never know how much of it was evil versus how much was insanity… have you ever heard of soulbonders? He was one of ’em. I talked to a mutual friend, someone he took advantage of even more than me, and we both found the strength to cut all ties — which he did not respond to very well at all, naturally. I doubt he can carry out any threats but still pray he’s lost my address (I had given it to him multiple times and he always lost it, so it’s probably okay, esp. after this much time has passed)

I was going to say it doesn’t behoove you to be extremely picky and wait for someone to come along who likes and believes alllllllllllll the same stuff that you do, but it sounds like you don’t have a problem there. Having fundamental non-negotiable values is fine, imo. Not giving someone a chance because she doesn’t like Dr. Who and it’s your favorite show, is not. Anyone that picky is gonna be waiting a loooong time.

My “picker” has gotten naturally pickier over time, so this last time I really hit the jackpot — only, nope, apparently too good to be true. Before him I had thought myself incapable of love in my “old age,” he proved me wrong only to break my heart. Lovely. No going back now. Sigh.

Eight months?! I think she’s full of shit. (but Facebook is evil so yeah, who knows)

You’re interesting to talk to so if you want to spew out 1000 more words or so, feel free! I’m going to be gone a few days but I always check on old threads 😀 If you feel done with it though it’s cool.

clevername 7/12/2013 - 12:34 am

This is the first i’ve heard of “soulbonders,” but the word seems semantically intuitive enough.

You’re right, i don’t have a problem in the “accepting people’s differences” or “not needing someone to like all the same stuff i do” departments. I’ve never had the opportunity to not give someone a chance. It’s always the other way around. It’s quite possible that i’ve simply not been aware of an attraction at times, but i’ve re-analyzed the past so much over the years, and i just can’t find any instances where that seems like a reasonable notion. I’m pretty sure “it” was never about me not giving someone a chance.

It’s a little ironic you mention Dr. Who. As a child, i watched the old version of the show, and had some fond memories of it. I didn’t even know it had been revived/rebooted until it had already acquired a new hipster-cult-following. And so, being the original hipster i am, i couldn’t get into it, because it was too popular. lol. (actually, as i’ve previously mentioned elsewhere, i just can’t stand TV these days, and so the existence of a new Dr. Who show doesn’t much interest me. I think it’s “kinda neat that they’re doing that,” but that’s about as far as that goes)

The irony is that “her” last contact involved a reference to a Dr. Who character. Prior to that, i hadn’t even known she was “into” such things.

My problem isn’t that i’ve ever thought myself incapable of giving or feeling love, but rather that i am actually unlovable, that there is no one out there who would. It seems that i’ve always been inferior and/or inadequate in the face of the fundamental non-negotiable values of others, which, i don’t often deem appropriate or valid, and have some natural disdain for those who “automatically” view me as ineligible. It’s not that i’m not ineligible, or that i think i should have a chance. It’s that i hate the obstacles i can’t conquer, and i know i am ineligible. I can’t seem to solve what causes that problem, nor can i remove or bypass the requirement to solve it.

I won’t say there aren’t any particularly appealing features i would desire in a mate, but honestly, so few of the things i know i’d like, are “required.” The only real requirements are that i must find her appealing, and she must be willing. If two people are not mutually attracted and mutually willing to engage, indulge, explore, and try to really understand and enjoy each other… then it’s probably “correct” when/if/that it doesn’t happen.

SadBk 7/15/2013 - 9:49 am

They’re crazy freaks. I wouldn’t have a problem with that by itself, but this one was a manipulative scammer abusing people’s trust. That, I have a problem with.

Oh jeez, I did it again? Sorry :\ I’ve never watched Dr. Who myself but I am biased against it for very stupid personal reasons. Maybe it popped in my head as something I would be annoyed with my guy liking that I don’t?

You don’t strike me as unlovable, but what do I know, right? I’m unlovable myself, and others on this website have labeled themselves such. It would be narcissistic of me to think I’m the only one deserving of the title. I’m not sure how much of it is who I am at my core versus what I do. If it’s the latter, maybe there’s some hope. In your case, if it’s the looks & money stuff… definitely hope there. There ARE people who will look past that. Perhaps not as many who won’t, but there are.

My therapist (very diplomatically) told me I’m ugly now. I whined to a friend who diplomatically agreed. Thanks, people! Thing is… I AM trying to be uglier, so shouldn’t I be glad it’s working? Stupid vanity. Why do I want someone to say “no matter what you do you can’t be ugly” or some crap? Maybe I’m more shallow than I thought.

clevername 7/21/2013 - 2:18 am

Oh, didn’t realize you commented here again.

While i have a sort of innate revulsion toward manipulative types and scamming in-general, and especially abuse of trust… when i look around at the world, i can’t help but see “their side” of the argument (or whatever), and consider the validity of those tactics. It’s almost required in this world. I’ve seen how successful and happy those manipulative, trust-abusing scammers’ lives can be. I’ve also seen what happens if you live honestly.

I can see how lots of manipulative types might find “that show” interesting. There’re some potentially correlating tropes and themes. Time travel, changing the present through altering the past, but only slightly, or everything gets messed up. As a manipulator, one must use subtlety and affect change gradually, through incremental application of deception. I bet most manipulators wish they could just come back as “the next doctor,” without anyone knowing who they are. I bet they feel like they can’t ever get too close to anyone, like the doctor. Or, maybe they just happen to be cheesy sci-fi freaks. Who knows.

It’s not that i believe myself unlovable, but rather that i believe most, if not all women, would not choose to allow that to happen… and mostly because of physical and financial inferiority. It’s not even that i’m “ugly,” and i don’t think i am. It’s that i’m not good enough. I’m not physically or financially amazing, so the rest doesn’t matter, except for those who might think i’m “cute” or “interesting.” Cute and interesting isn’t enough. I know what women want, and that i don’t have enough of it. No one wants to fall in love with someone who “isn’t enough.” And so, i never get the chance to not give a chance. And so, when i say “unlovable,” what i’m really saying is that no one exists, who would appreciate and love what i think is lovable about me. And no, i can’t explain or define just what exactly that is.

A little while ago, i was looking for a particular quote, or proverb, or something, and couldn’t find it… but i did find a buddhist saying that i think translates to: “it’s better to be a beggar, than to hate what your work.” It’s better to do nothing and go without, than to hate what you have to do, to have anything. For years now, i’ve been… attracted, i guess… to the idea of just getting rid of everything, and trying to go live at a temple or something. Maybe i just need to be a monk, and isolate myself for the rest of my days, and forget the world. But then again, the same things that stop me from actually doing that, are mostly the same things that stop me from just ending it.

If there truly are any females out there who would give a shit about me despite my obviously significant flaws, in the two most relevant and uncompromisable areas… it’s what i would call “a safe bet” that i will never meet any of them. I suppose their existence is somewhat more likely than that of any “God,” but… i see no evidence to support their existence, either. The only reason it’s even feasible, is because i know female humans exist, and i know some of them are irrational enough to “care deeply” for someone, even if he’s not the best she can do. So maybe. But probably not.

And now back on the topic of ‘you’: Anyone who ever says “no matter what you do you can’t be ugly” is full of shit. Sure, it might take a lot more than any normal person… but it’s possible for anyone, even the perfect vision of beautiful-in-love, to say and do things that make them seem ugly, no matter how much you love them, no matter how really, really, ridiculously good-looking, they might be. “Being” ugly and “doing” ugly, aren’t the same thing. Sometimes, not even “doing as much ugly as you can,” up to and including surpassing the barrier of “no matter what you do,” is enough. Anyone can destroy something beautiful. Not everyone can make something beautiful. Not everyone can appreciate the destruction of beauty, nor the beauty of destruction.

If you want someone to say “you can’t be ugly,” then why would you try so hard to make yourself ugly? Isn’t that just artificially complicating and preventing what you want? Why make it nearly impossible for someone to ever think that?

And besides, what does “ugly” even matter? Ugly is a weird word. It can apply to even the prettiest people.

And you know what else? Caring about looks doesn’t automatically make anyone “shallow.” We have eyes. We like things that have visual appeal. It’s completely natural. If looks are “all you care about,” and anyone who isn’t visually impeccable is a waste of your time, and the only people who are worth anything to you are those who look how you want someone to look… then maybe you’re shallow.

But so what? Is it really wrong to be shallow?

If you were “shallow,” i think you’d fit in with this world much better.

SadBk 7/23/2013 - 1:37 am

Heh, I’ll keep it brief in case you don’t see this one either 🙂

I’m manipulative, but not in a hurtful way. I can’t ask for what I want so I have to manipulate situations to get it. Obviously that doesn’t always work, or I would be happy as a clam. (how happy are clams??)

Who can explain why chemistry draws some people together but not others? Maybe you truly haven’t met your match… I know that’s annoying to hear but I can’t help think it could be true, in your case. If anyone says it to me, I pffffffffft because they don’t know everything that *I* know about myself. Due to them not being me and all. I’m convinced I blew my last shot at happiness.

I put on a wee bit of makeup this weekend. Just foundation. To take my friend out for her birthday. It didn’t do much, my skin is so… icky now. From who knows what essential nutrient I’m missing. And now that I’ve worn it once I suppose I’m allowed to do it again if I want to look a little less ugly.

I was supposed to kill myself yesterday, and it feels rather strange now that I didn’t. I keep thinking about how shitty this day would have been for my loved ones if I’d followed my plan. I probably wouldn’t have been found until today. Every day from now on is “extra.”

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