Family & Friends EffectsGeneralIs God real? by virtus 11/20/2013 written by virtus 11/20/2013Do ya’ll believe in God? Religion 42 comments 0EmailRelated postsI didn’t give up. 1/17/2020Screams 1/17/2020 1/16/2020rehab 1/16/2020Salvare 1/16/2020Broken Record 1/16/2020The Final Hoorah 1/15/2020 1/15/2020Just a Really Stupid Question 1/15/2020Same ol’ shit 1/15/202042 comments RenoBill 11/20/2013 - 8:34 pmNo! Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 8:37 pmyes Log in to Reply animerocks500 11/20/2013 - 8:47 pmI believe that god is everything in the world and , god can only reflect your motive in life back out on the world. God is karma I guess, but karma is different for every one , and it will hurt ever one differently Log in to Reply clevername 11/20/2013 - 8:55 pmOnce upon a time, in a not so distant past, there was a thread…And in that thread, much was opined, much was debated, argued and maligned…But in the end, it didn’t accomplish anything.I see nothing in reality that compels a reasonably justifiable belief that any god is or has been actually real.But what is real, is the fact that believing something is true, does indeed influence the mind and thoughts, and motivates actions which affect the real world, regardless of whether what is believed is actually true.The meme of god is certainly real, regardless of whether any god exists. That meme certainly influences many people’s behavior, and motivates them toward actions which do affect the environment we all share.I don’t think the question of belief is the important one. I think the important question is whether it is acceptable to influence a shared environment, thus imposing effects upon others, based on ideas that are not evidenced by reality, and cannot be proven, or even reasonably assumed. I don’t think that’s acceptable, actually… but it has occurred throughout human history.One person versus the world, can only accomplish so much. But if one person can motivate an entire following into cooperation and unified, focused actions… then that one person stands to gain quite a lot. I am almost certain this idea is the basis for the origin of theism and organized religion, and while i don’t intend to offend with these assertions, i realize that the natural response to being told “your god is not real and you are being exploited” is usually to take offense.That’s not to say that i think it’s impossible that some inconceivably larger being exists… but i think it’s incredibly foolish and fantastical, to think that “everything happens for the reason that is god’s will,” or that everything is predestined and divinely ordained. And i will add, that if you do think “god has a plan,” then you probably shouldn’t take issue with anything negative you ever experience; after all, it’s “god’s will,” right? Surely a believer would not oppose god’s will, for fear of being condemned to “eternal damnation.” Our lives are a mere blip, compared to eternity. Log in to Reply animerocks500 11/20/2013 - 9:00 pmclevername you are indeed awesome, All your words connect soo well together. I wish I can be like you …. You are a great person ,how old are you? Log in to Reply Giovanni 11/20/2013 - 9:27 pmI see dead people in my sleep. People I have never met on earth. One time I saw an elderly woman standing in the woods next to her house surrounded by flowers & trees. She just stood there looking at me right in the eyes. I’ve also met other spirit friends. A little black boy took me inside this temple. I now believe this was the Akashik Record. Suddenly we felt a third masculine spiritual presence in the temple. When I tried to look at the spirit’s face he hid his identity but showed me an image of a wooden coffin. When I looked there lay inside was a book. Recently I went on another astral voyage. I was flying in the city using a vortex that I would create by waving my palms inwards. Another time I saw pair of legs in dress pants & black shoes walk by in my room. Another time I met a couple near a beach. I just sat there listening to them talk. Like I said, these are not fabricated stories. These are real places I’ve visited and people I’ve met while in an Out of Body state. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 9:32 pmI want some of your meds. lol Log in to Reply Giovanni 11/20/2013 - 9:43 pmThe spirits tell us that if you want to help yourself help someone else. Practice love and forgiveness. Love increases your vibrational frequency and attracts good spirits. Like attracts like. The law of times 3 says that whatever you do comes back to you threefold. They teach us that you cannot die. You are immortal light. Thus, the more you purify and disassociate yourself from the mortal coil of flesh and its impure desires the closer you approach the spiritual self.They teach us that the greatest law in the universe is love and peace not hate. We are here to learn, and through our deeds advance in spiritual rank. Fear not death, for those who are born are preparing to die. And those who have died are preparing to live. The reason you cannot perceive the invisible realm is because there is a veil covering your eyes. Thus, the only way to access the higher dimension is by increasing your vibration through astral projection or deep trance like relaxation. In other words, you are the channel & all you have to do is tune in. Log in to Reply cagedtiger 11/20/2013 - 9:52 pmI definitely believe in God being real. Log in to Reply Giovanni 11/20/2013 - 9:53 pmI have also lived in a haunted home before for almost a year. The female spirit would communicate with me all the time. Sometimes she would wake me up in the morning by whispering softly in my right ear. Other times she would move things in the house to get my attention. One time a coat hanger came flying out of the closet and landed next to my right foot. She was trying to warn me about something that was going to happen. That night my roommate got drunk with his friends inside the house. When I came home I saw his blood smeared everywhere. The kitchen, bathroom and his room all covered in blood. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 10:31 pmStrangest thing is that I have noticed that there can be, and often are, severe electrical disturbances around the time something “different” happens.How many of you have experienced this and know what I mean?Here it was loss of power, power flickering, power surges (when they normally dont happen). Log in to Reply Giovanni 11/20/2013 - 10:43 pmSpirits can intercept electrical devices & electrical currents. Electricity is another phenomena we humans don’t fully comprehend. Needless to say that all matter is essentially an expression of electrical vibration. That at the very core of all matter, whether it be a rock or a piece of hair everything is principally the same even if it’s different. So technically matter is not actually what it appears to be. Density, mass or weight are basically illusions created by the inner structure formed by atoms & subatomic particles. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 10:56 pmYes, fully agreed.I was just wondering if “they” need it to manifest, use it somehow. I have noticed this too many times to have it be anything but something not normal. Log in to Reply C4 11/20/2013 - 10:59 pmGod exists in the minds of billions of people. You’re also welcome to believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, leprechauns, unicorns, or flying monkeys with supernatural powers. Faith requires no evidence, but believing that magic is real definitely helps. Log in to Reply clevername 11/20/2013 - 11:01 pmI’d be more inclined to suspect involuntary psychokinesis before i began considering otherworldly spirits. But sometimes physical circuits and devices have flaws (most do), and sometimes things are just coincidence. It’s entirely possible (and certainly documented) that the power grid and individual homes can certainly experience very normal power fluctuations. Things happen. Doesn’t necessarily mean spirits. Log in to Reply quaero 11/20/2013 - 11:06 pmI believe in Truth, which is, to me, equivalent to God. Log in to Reply Giovanni 11/20/2013 - 11:10 pmNo in most cased the spirit manipulating the electrical current is only trying to get your attention. Now all spirits have a rank. The purest spirits of the high order are known for their kindness and love. To answer your question, no manipulation of devices is not necessary for manifestation of psychic activity to occur, for it can communicate with you during deep sleep as manifesting itself in the astral dimension requires less work than manifesting itself in the physical realm. During sleep the body is inactive thereby granting the incarnated spirit temporary freedom and thus permitting the manifested spirit to meet you halfway in your dream. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 11:16 pmwell i was referring to the hell scene my wife and her mom had going on here… earlier that day we had severe e;ectrical disturbances…. Im just wondering if it was somehow related to them being “influenced?possessed”. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 11:19 pmnot the first time….. I have noticed this before, many times,,,, its almost as though “something” is “active” and manifests in this manner, for whatever purpose/need.I dont see/hear spirits, its as though those people are “taken over” in a sense…. influenced to act a certain way.(I know it sounds weird).Im a scientist by trade, so I really don’t believe in crap but when you experience things several times, and a pattern emerges, there is always some good reason for it. Log in to Reply Giovanni 11/20/2013 - 11:23 pmIn most cases a possessed home acts like a portal through which spirits enter from the invisible realm. Ouija boards, the practice of occultism and Circle Casting, for instance, can be responsible for the invitation of negative spirits energy. What I suggest you do is write down/document all your findings. If this happens frequently it may be an electrical issue. If however, you believe the home is being invaded by negative forces have everyone hold hands in a circle and pray. Take 12 small shot glasses and fill them with water. Bless the glasses each morning & each night by reciting the prayer of Our Father. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/20/2013 - 11:28 pmwell, since my wife left, everything has been quiet that way (seriously).The most severe “disturbance:” was the morning of the day she left me. That night is when I tried to end it.Before all of this, these “disturbances” were quite frequent, and noone else on the street had them (I asked around).Strange.Its as if whatever “it” was, was focusing on her.Not one disturbance here in almost 3 months now, not even a flicker. Log in to Reply Diem S. Sky 11/20/2013 - 11:33 pmProof of God’s existence: St. Thomas Aquinas:The Fifth Way: Argument from DesignWe see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.Most natural things lack knowledge.But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God. Log in to Reply clevername 11/20/2013 - 11:50 pmI think that before anyone can legitimately assert that any god exists, everyone must first agree upon a standardized definition of “god.”If you have a billion people all defining “god” differently, as if trying to cover all possible avenues of definition, then all you’re really doing is proving that no one knows what god is, and that it’s absurd to have to resort to saying “god is everything,” just so you can continue to claim that it exists. I mean, of course “everything exists.” But that’s an invalid definition for god.In order to legitimately claim that god exists, you first need a definition.From what i can see, that definition must be “everything we cannot know or define.” Which means that no one can legitimately know whether there is any god, because we, by definition, cannot know or define it… which leaves us in the precarious position of having to realize that if we cannot know something exists, and cannot define it, then we really should not be claiming it is true. And yet… billions of people claim their version of fantastical mysticism is true, without any standards by which to verify any such claims.People who attempt to “prove god” via logic, both irritate and amuse me. Bemused, i suppose is the word. In every single instance when this has occurred, it is completely obvious that the person attempting to “use logic,” does not even understand what logic is, or how it works.The value-distance between zero and one, is infinite… but the value distance between one and two, is just one.Theists continually begin their assertions from a predefined assumption that god exists, and then attempt to rationalize everything upon that unjustified and most likely false premise. That’s why it doesn’t work. Your incorrect logic cannot legitimately provide a valid basis of reasoning or justification for your unsubstantiated claims. Substance is required, even to validate the notion itself as a reasonable question.Start from zero and try to let logic tell you whether there is any valid basis for believing any unsubstantiated claim. If you refuse to start from zero, you are incapable of using a logical argument, and therefore not qualified to masquerade your false notions as “logical.” There is no valid basis for asserting that the idea of god is logical. The best you can do is to say “it would be nice, if…” or “i would like to believe that…” but that is not the same as logic. That is merely wishful thinking, represented under various disguises, with the intent of convincing others to agree with you.I would like to believe there is something more… but there is nothing in reality which compels me to believe any such thing exists. I haven’t seen everything that exists, and neither has anyone else… but i have seen enough to know that allowing oneself to believe that which may not be true, and is not represented by observable reality, can be extremely detrimental, both to the self, and others. Log in to Reply tupacorbiggie 11/21/2013 - 12:12 amIf god exists then he/she is a sadistic piece of shit for allowing all this meaningless suffering to take place on Earth. My life is a living hell and there’s no escape except suicide. Log in to Reply secondlife 11/21/2013 - 12:58 am“Is God real?”The answer lies in the question. If god was real then the question wouldn’t asked, since it would be accepted a priori.However since no evidence exists for this god then we can conclude he doesn’t exist.At this point the “believers” play all sorts of word games and psychobabble, but all their claims amount to nothing but a big stinking pile of horse manure because words are not going to conjure up the magic genie they claim is real.You could’ve also asked do Jaba the Huts exist? Only on paper and film-just like god. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/21/2013 - 1:02 amdepression and suicidal thoughts are real. I know that. I also know people can get stressed to the point where they feel its their only option (including me). I have to ask “why”. Many of us were normal before, then something happened, then we come to a place like this (if we dont die first). Some of us have suffered since being a kid, some are kids. But, we know whats real….. pain, how others make it worse or better. According to the Bible, this is all caused by “original sin”, simply a woman “eve” eating an apple.So, our condition is due to her eating a bad piece of fruit.🙁 Log in to Reply clevername 11/21/2013 - 1:09 amI like this answer; especially the part about why the question is even asked.Perhaps god is real but wishes to remain hidden. What would that mean? Perhaps an all-knowing, all-powerful being, knows people are suffering unnecessarily, but still chooses not to grant their prayers, or even spare them from needless suffering. Can we still attribute such behavior to “goodness?” And if we insist He is good, then it must mean he is either unable to help, or is unaware, meaning he does not receive the billions of prayers. Assuming he is all-powerful, he could simply stop time and progress it incrementally, and the number “billions” would be irrelevant, because an all-powerful being would not be limited in such a way that billions of prayers could not be answered.If there is any actual god, it is most likely unaware of us, much like we are only superficially aware of the bacteria in our own intestines. Sure, we “know” they exist, but only because some biologists figured it out and published their findings. We don’t know of the existence of these bacteria based on physically and individually perceiving them in any way. We are essentially immune to any sensation of their influence, except in the case that their ecosystem gets out of balance and we have gas or cramps, or whatever. We are not listening, or even capable of responding, to individual bacteria prayers. We are not creating their worlds and existences with a divinely ordained intention. We are simply living, because we were born, and they are inside us because that’s just the way the human body works.But back to the previous post: then we have people who ask whether they, themselves, are real… whether their chair or computer is real… whether anyone else actually exists, or if it’s just all in their own mind… and while it’s fun to think about, i guess, it’s not really based in reality.If you want to try experiments, you can attempt to “will” other things to abide by your whims, without physically influencing them with your body or any extension thereof. If you can literally think someone or something into the desired result, then you should probably use that as much as you can. Otherwise, you should assume that other people actually exist, because that’s the simplest and most likely explanation. Log in to Reply clevername 11/21/2013 - 1:09 am^re: secondlife Log in to Reply clevername 11/21/2013 - 1:17 am@”original sin”But if god made eve as he intended (which he must have, since he’s “infallible” and “perfect”), then he intended for her to eat the apple and commit sin. This was no accident, this was his divine plan. He made a human who could not resist the compelling temptation to experience sensation. He then provided a means to experience that sensation, and then forbade it, as if to say “i know you will do this, because i have provided the perfect conditions to facilitate it, and i’m going to punish you anyway.”Seems like a pretty outrageous story to me. Almost as if the story is meant to make people feel like they themselves are guilty of something, or that they owe someone something, or that they should blame women for the problems in the world… much like, oh, say, a 2000+ year old “patriarchy” might intend, in order to influence people’s behavior in a way that would benefit them.The synthesis of the fable was, itself, the actual original sin. It was created to manipulate people’s behavior. It was then proliferated to ignorant masses and endorsed by those seeking positions of status and authority. As i often suggest: those seeking authority over others, should seldom be trusted. And yet, they were, and here we are. Log in to Reply AnonymousGrl 11/21/2013 - 9:04 amI’m agnostic. Log in to Reply quaero 11/21/2013 - 10:50 ami love this “original sin” story. its one of the few that attempts to explain why man is different from animals. man ate the forbidden fruit of knowledge and got the power of judging, of good and bad. its a multidimensional story. why was the fruit of knowledge forbidden? how came man ate it? why its called a sin? i love getting lost into these questions.man has freedom, this alone makes him greater than god. he can break the laws of nature. he can go higher than god and its laws. if we see it from this view then the question “why god allows evil?” becomes invalid. god doesn’t allow evil; we do evil. we are free to do evil. god became angry when we disobeyed him and ate the fruit. he even became jealous of us, because with this act we became higher, or atleast equal to him, in some respects. but much of us was/is still in his control. we have this fragile body which acts under laws of nature/god. and he still holds the law of karma where he can punish or bless us for our acts. but didn’t you notice one thing? we are free to do karma/produce causes. i don’t think animals produce a cause… they flows in this cause and effect cycle but they don’t explicitly produce a cause by themselves. we, on the other hand, can produce a cause (and receive its effect). now, if we are free to produce a cause, aren’t we also free to not produce it, and thus not receive an effect? we have in us seed of freedom, thus we can get out of this cause and effect cycle too. we can break ALL laws. humans are the rebels of universe. Log in to Reply quaero 11/21/2013 - 11:04 amsorry for diverging from topic… i can’t help when questions like this come forth. Log in to Reply clevername 11/21/2013 - 11:12 amI like your comment quaero.However, i will say this: prior to man’s inventions (including the fable in question), there were no “laws.” Laws are artificial constructs. Man made laws (and some men then claimed certain laws were “god’s will,” and we see where that lead). There are only two reasons to abide by laws: 1) receive a benefit, 2) avoid a consequence.Without fear of consequence or expectation of benefit, laws are utterly irrelevant.However, only the consequence is real; the promise of reward is false… unless you define the reward as avoidance of consequence!It amounts to this: “do as i say or i’ll kill you.” (alternatively: “if you abide by my rules, i will grant you the privilege of being allowed to remain alive and mostly unharmed”)That is how “law” works.“The power to kill, is the only power that matters.” (quote from… ender’s game, i think?)The power to kill, also provides the power of mercy, and the power of control. If you hold the power to choose who lives or dies, and for what reasons… you can essentially rule the world. Those who would choose benevolence, reason and fairness, despite an incomparable and irrevocable power to destroy at will, should be respected. Those who choose to destroy for entertainment or superficial frivolity, should themselves be reviled… deposed, and or destroyed… but until that, will be feared.The recognition of the importance of, and the power enabling us to, manipulate both the environment and other beings, are what makes us “different.”There is some frightening truth at the core of the nature of humanity. Understanding these things is part of any human’s journey inward, in search of full self-acceptance. Log in to Reply Dawg 11/21/2013 - 11:42 amThere’s a higher probability that aliens visited our planet and so stunned and amazed our ancestors that they called them “god” …… than there is a ageless, timeless, all-knowing, all-powerful “being” that has infinite capability and resources to create the vast, immense universe(s) and everything in it only to seed a teeny tiny speck of dust around a teeny tiny star with his “creations”if there were a god that wasted all that time, space and resources just to put us selfish, uncaring meat bags on this grain of sand in the middle of nowhere – i wouldn’t “worship” him/her/it anyway because this “god” would be the absolute worst most inefficient god ever.That said, it’s ludicrous, presumptuous and disgustingly egotistical to think we are somehow the whole point and purpose to “all this”.And why is there no need for any hint of evidence when the subject of discussion is “god”? No rhyme no reason no logic no factual anything … oh, you talking about god? oh well in that case who needs any evidence … i mean, it’s god, can’t question that … but try to borrow $5 and you need to prove your work and ethics history for 3 generations.Summation – there is no godgodless dawg Log in to Reply clevername 11/21/2013 - 11:50 amLOL!/That’s mah dawg!/ (say it with a chris tucker accent) Log in to Reply quaero 11/21/2013 - 1:00 pmyour comment reminds me of a more philosophical version i read about origin of god: because of man’s ability of judging he was faced with this insurmountable dilemma of deciding what is good and what is evil. he created an ideal figure above him (god) to escape this dilemma. but i wonder how he was able to take instructions from this his-own-creation god. do you think it was used just as wish fulfilling machine, an excuse under which he can give completion to his own agendas? or was god an ideal he honestly set in front of himself to rise upto godhood, his own highest ideal? was man intelligent enough to even create the concept of god? i wonder what gave birth to god. often i think it was created by initial intelligent people to stabilize society. but sometimes i see it as man’s rebellion against abiding to any law or authority, even if its nature. maybe its both; maybe god has two versions – social and personal. when i look around i can’t help but see so many benefits of god, in so many diverse fields of both human nature and society. and i also see how many wars and misconceptions it has created, how it has been manipulated and misused by people in power for selfish agendas, how it has taken people away from reality. maybe its like everything else: both good and bad. Log in to Reply virtus 11/21/2013 - 8:43 pmWow thank ya’ll so much for these great responses! I respect each and every one and they have certainly given me something to think about. Personally, I believe in a supernatural force or being, but I do not believe this being is good. I think the only reason I would call this supernatural force or being God is because the word God is just a label. I think any real “god” who claims to love us and lets the innocent(not me, probably not you) suffer cannot be truly loving. Just my personal opinion Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/21/2013 - 8:49 pmour suffering is due to a woman eating a bad piece of fruit on a tree about 10 thousand years ago. Log in to Reply kekexlokk 11/23/2013 - 8:52 amI believe that he is somewhere but he never really figures out that I need his help so I gave up. Log in to Reply fortunear 11/23/2013 - 5:12 pmIf God exists, I believe it to be unknowable. I also prefer to think of her as the Goddess. Read up on Pagan religions. They make more sense then an all powerful God who lets suffering happen. They put Gods more as beings of energy, themselves subject to “laws of nature” and us as extension/pieces of them. Log in to Reply Wifeisgone 11/23/2013 - 5:31 pmwell, if yo believe in a goddess, certainly there can very well be a God too, right?God never said this world was all we have. In fact, He said this world doesnt matter, what comes after it all does, when we exit.I just believe we are each called to do our part in whatever way we are meant to, suffering or not. Log in to Reply fortunear 11/23/2013 - 5:34 pmYep. Feminine and masculine energies. I identify more with the feminine. Lol Log in to Reply Leave a Comment Cancel ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment.