Well, since the 99% only have the illusion of liberty and not true liberty, please give me the sweet release of a quick and painless death. Not that I want to die; I just don’t want to live this life, as a slave. What a world- the choice of our own life and death is taken away from us. We do not have this thing called “freedom.”
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Well, you have to put a limit on the concept of freedom at some point. Due to our nature (and the nature of life itself) we can never be truly free of responsibility or some amount of expected personal productivity. At least in the current time and the conceivable future. This is no reason to undervalue institutions that grant us a reasonable degree of liberties and freedoms.
At some point true freedom comes into an inevitable clash with a necessary amount of force and expectation, and a balance must be found. The goal is not perfection. The goal is simply to get as close to such a thing as possible with the many limits that we have.
technically speaking, true freedom, even if some might call it anarchy existed for thousands of years, and yet we managed to survive it anyway
only thing that hinders that style of freedom is our own constructs, weather or not they have value or greater value to some to forgo complete freedom, but it’s not impossible, just hindered by our own constructs, be it right or wrong to substitute those freedoms for the constructs is another matter, but then again, that’s also just another construct.
it’s all in the choice, and consequences… to be able to live with them or not….
Yes. I hesitated to bring the word “anarchy” into it, but it’s worth mentioning. If only to note how horrific such a thing would be in practice in a modern setting.
“only thing that hinders that style of freedom is our own constructs”
And we have constructed our modern societies on the basis that this “style of freedom” that we mention is precisely what we should avoid reverting or devolving to. The simple fact that we survived our more primitive years as a species is no reason to return to primitive societal etiquette or understanding.
@ TheRiver
oh i’m not advocating either, just mentioning it, as it would be a fallacy to think it impossible.
True we survived it, but, that also ended the “experiment” if one might call it so. There is no telling how long it “could” have gone on, just that it was, now it’s not. Whether or not it’s a feasible continual existence we can literally never know beyond philosophical arguments, because it’s something that is unlikely to be allowed to ever be tested again. At least not on a permanent basis, since those that value the constructs, despite the imposed limitations on their freedom, simply wouldn’t allow it, as they have deemed it preferable.
And they have deemed it so for good reason, to be fair.
My intent is not to accuse you, don’t get me wrong. Something that must be valued is the chance to present an argument or point that you may not wholly agree with. The ability to appreciate and understand both sides is an admirable one. I’m simply addressing the points as I see them presented.
@ _darkness
“Death or Valhalla!”
I should add that the choice you mention – the choice of death – is by no means taken from you. The choice of having other people grant you a virtually painless death may be, but the option of inflicting death upon yourself is certainly still there. Even if the only means by which you may do so are horrendous in nature and likely quite painful, the choice is there nonetheless. I find this rather reassuring, personally.
sad thing is to some that “simple choice” is not even free for them to make, and not a liberty to all
some places not only suicide attempt is a crime with punishments, but even successful suicide itself is criminal with possible repercussions (even if not in all/many places follow through on it, to some it’s still a possibility and consequential outcome they have to “endure” so to speak)
Suicide, to me, represents freedom. Freedom from a world so bound by custom, rite, ritual and law that it cannot see straight. That I can, at my discretion and at the time of my choosing, sever all ties with this insane way of life is a breath of fresh air. My plan involves not being found, thereby avoiding a funeral and all the associated stupidity. Those who need to know will know, and my affairs will be handled prior, but when it’s time to go, it’s MY choice, MY time, MY location, and fuck the world. I’d rather leave my body to be eaten by bears than be fussed over by a bureaucracy.
Well said, brother.
Thank you.