Buddhists say exactly that! In fact, some might say Buddhism is a way to escape life itself, because they equate life with suffering, and teach others a way to swim out of suffering.
Why is suicide not the answer? Well, Buddhism argues that killing your body doesn’t actually stop your life. This life is just a stage in your karmic journey, and if you kill yourself you’ll just meet the same situation you’re in now in your next life, and so on and so forth. In that way your hands are tied.
I’m a Buddhist, but I’m not telling you Buddhism is “right” or anything. It just seemed like an interesting question, so I gave one possible answer to that question from one perspective (a perspective that I happen to like a lot ^.^ ).
Buddhists say if you die naturally, you also get reborn, but you get reborn into a different life where you progress to find an even harder obstacle to face. You keep getting reborn and facing these obstacles, each one worse then the next, and only when you’ve faced every possible hardship and obstacle, and overcome them, do you achieve enlightenment, see the root of suffering, and attain Nirvana.
Nirvana isn’t heaven. Nirvana means your existence is erased. You’re no longer reborn. You cease to be reborn, your essence is completely destroyed, and you are free from desires, suffering, and the world forever.
@eternaldarkness that’s only my interpretation of the teachings. There are many schools of Buddhism, and some schools say anyone can escape suffering in this life itself. But “escaping suffering” always means Nirvana, which is a negation of the self.
Buddhism does equate the self and all life with suffering, no matter what school of Buddhism it is.
I was amazed to finally realize that the original teachings of so many religions/spiritual philosophies are the same – eliminate all the delusions of ego within to empty yourself and allow the Divine Reality (sooo many names for it. I picked one) to be realized and take control. It took reading Taoism and the Bhagavad Gita before I realized that Christ was teaching this too (something I didn’t understand when I was a practicing member of the Christian religion). Even the same phrases are said over and over – just worded slightly differently. I have read less about Buddhism, but get the impression that it teaches the same thing. Eliminate the ego to allow the true Self (Buddha nature) to be realized. As a Buddhist, what do you think?
mysteriousvisitor, I’m not sure. I never fully understood Hinduism or Christianity, nor do I know very much about comparative religion.
But to be clear, Buddhism as I understand it is a bit different. It does say to “eliminate all the delusions of the ego”, and to “empty yourself”. But Theravada Buddhism has no concept of Divine Reality. In fact, the “reality” that Buddhism totes is the reality that there is no reality. Buddhism wants YOU to be in control, not for any extra force to take control of you.
I think that’s where Buddhism and Hinduism part ways. Hinduism argues that the Atman (the Self) exists, and that everyone has a divine nature that should take control. But Buddhism argues that there is no Atman (self). And so nothing should take control of you. You should simply seek to lose your sense of self, but not seek to replace it with anything, divine or otherwise.
Ah, I see, makes sense. Of those I named, this sounds closest to the way it is described in Taoism. Although I wasn’t thinking of replacing, but realizing what was there all along.
You’re absolutely right. Yes, you are, technically, reborn based on the amt of ‘bad karma’ you have left. But here’s the thing. In Buddhism, ‘good karma’ accumulates based on the purity/impurity of your life. If your life is impure, you are reborn to lower realms that make you suffer more then you could possibly suffer as a human. If you manage to live a pure life in that horrible amount of suffering, you ascend to a higher realm. Each realm (even the Deva realm) has it’s own specific type of suffering that you must overcome.
Once you overcome all this suffering, your karma will be in a place that will allow you to possibly discover Buddhism and swim out of suffering.
I kind of didn’t like this interpretation, so I changed my interpretation of the karmic cycle slightly so it makes more sense for me.
Diem Sky and MysteriousVisitor – Great discussion !
My own interpretation, from listening to Eckhart Tolle, who has examined many different religions, is that the intended (core) message at the heart of all mainstream religions is/was essentially the same. After starting off the same, the religions began to diverge from the fundamental truths, and from each other, over time, as they were subjected to more and more thought and academic scrutiny. They have been artificially bloated with people’s (mis)interpretations … so much so, that it is no surprise that the fundamental truths they intended to convey are no longer even decipherable to most.
That is why most people think that God owes them financial success, the guarantee of immortality for all their family members, and general good fortune, in exchange for a weekly trip to a building where the like minded gather for rituals. That is why I have never had any interest in any particular religion. I prefer to go deeper, to the fundamental truths, which are necessarily simpler than their counterparts (more like imposters) in organized religion. I don’t need fancy academic texts to tell me what those truths are. I don’t need to go to a building every Friday or Sunday, and perform rituals, to know what those truths are. If this is someone else’s practice, I respect it totally. But, it’s not mine.
Sorry if speaking what I consider to be the truth offended anyone.
I believe the rituals and writings are only to point the way. Experiencing it inside oneself is the only way to KNOW it. This is mentioned in some of the teachings. The instant we attempt to interpret and communicate something, we automatically change and diminish it.
“The instant we attempt to interpret and communicate something, we automatically change and diminish it.”
not true with math. math is definite. i sometimes wonder if math is proof of a god… but then i think of things that appear to be mathematically impossible but might exist anyway, like singularities, which would mean that if they exist that the laws of reality and space time are malleable.
Most writings I know of, do a poor job of pointing the way … they’re far too verbose and complex for the average person to comprehend.
Does one need 1000 pages (or however long the Bible is) to convey to someone that all you need is to honor the present moment fully and unconditionally ?
Sure, there are some great pointers in these teachings … “The kingdom of heaven lies within.” … “Forgive them for they know not what they do.” But, they have been greatly misinterpreted, it seems.
I was speaking to an acquaintance of mine, who is a “devout Catholic”. When I asked her to tell me what she thinks those two (above) quotes mean, she gave me an answer that was so superficial, so roundabout, completely missing the point … that it struck me that all those years she spent at the Church could have been better spent cleaning her garage.
The truths are almost too simple for the mind to get a handle on. Therein lies the problem. The mind tries to understand something that is just not meant to be understood by the mind.
“Ordinary language is totally unsuited for expressing what physics really asserts, since the words of everyday life are not sufficiently abstract. Only mathematics and mathematical logic can say as little as the physicist means to say.” – Bertrand Russell
22 comments
Buddhists say exactly that! In fact, some might say Buddhism is a way to escape life itself, because they equate life with suffering, and teach others a way to swim out of suffering.
Why is suicide not the answer? Well, Buddhism argues that killing your body doesn’t actually stop your life. This life is just a stage in your karmic journey, and if you kill yourself you’ll just meet the same situation you’re in now in your next life, and so on and so forth. In that way your hands are tied.
I’m a Buddhist, but I’m not telling you Buddhism is “right” or anything. It just seemed like an interesting question, so I gave one possible answer to that question from one perspective (a perspective that I happen to like a lot ^.^ ).
What happens when you die naturally in the Buddhist philosophy?
Buddhists say if you die naturally, you also get reborn, but you get reborn into a different life where you progress to find an even harder obstacle to face. You keep getting reborn and facing these obstacles, each one worse then the next, and only when you’ve faced every possible hardship and obstacle, and overcome them, do you achieve enlightenment, see the root of suffering, and attain Nirvana.
Nirvana isn’t heaven. Nirvana means your existence is erased. You’re no longer reborn. You cease to be reborn, your essence is completely destroyed, and you are free from desires, suffering, and the world forever.
Buddhism is depressing as fuck.
Yeah, if that’s what buddhism is, then it sucks. Basically it’s saying we’re put here to suffer more and more and more?
until we reach nirvana and cease to exist?
@eternaldarkness that’s only my interpretation of the teachings. There are many schools of Buddhism, and some schools say anyone can escape suffering in this life itself. But “escaping suffering” always means Nirvana, which is a negation of the self.
Buddhism does equate the self and all life with suffering, no matter what school of Buddhism it is.
I was amazed to finally realize that the original teachings of so many religions/spiritual philosophies are the same – eliminate all the delusions of ego within to empty yourself and allow the Divine Reality (sooo many names for it. I picked one) to be realized and take control. It took reading Taoism and the Bhagavad Gita before I realized that Christ was teaching this too (something I didn’t understand when I was a practicing member of the Christian religion). Even the same phrases are said over and over – just worded slightly differently. I have read less about Buddhism, but get the impression that it teaches the same thing. Eliminate the ego to allow the true Self (Buddha nature) to be realized. As a Buddhist, what do you think?
mysteriousvisitor, I’m not sure. I never fully understood Hinduism or Christianity, nor do I know very much about comparative religion.
But to be clear, Buddhism as I understand it is a bit different. It does say to “eliminate all the delusions of the ego”, and to “empty yourself”. But Theravada Buddhism has no concept of Divine Reality. In fact, the “reality” that Buddhism totes is the reality that there is no reality. Buddhism wants YOU to be in control, not for any extra force to take control of you.
I think that’s where Buddhism and Hinduism part ways. Hinduism argues that the Atman (the Self) exists, and that everyone has a divine nature that should take control. But Buddhism argues that there is no Atman (self). And so nothing should take control of you. You should simply seek to lose your sense of self, but not seek to replace it with anything, divine or otherwise.
Ah, I see, makes sense. Of those I named, this sounds closest to the way it is described in Taoism. Although I wasn’t thinking of replacing, but realizing what was there all along.
i thought you were reborn at a level that corresponded to amount of “bad” karma tha you have left
You’re absolutely right. Yes, you are, technically, reborn based on the amt of ‘bad karma’ you have left. But here’s the thing. In Buddhism, ‘good karma’ accumulates based on the purity/impurity of your life. If your life is impure, you are reborn to lower realms that make you suffer more then you could possibly suffer as a human. If you manage to live a pure life in that horrible amount of suffering, you ascend to a higher realm. Each realm (even the Deva realm) has it’s own specific type of suffering that you must overcome.
Once you overcome all this suffering, your karma will be in a place that will allow you to possibly discover Buddhism and swim out of suffering.
I kind of didn’t like this interpretation, so I changed my interpretation of the karmic cycle slightly so it makes more sense for me.
Whatever makes it so “great” I find it extremely difficult to feel it or seeing myself doing it. Do you think that might make it harder?
Lately I literally hate everything
It is very difficult and painful, and I don’t even take my own advice on how to try and fix that. I am beyond caring to try.
Once you become delusional you will be able to see what is so great about life.
Diem Sky and MysteriousVisitor – Great discussion !
My own interpretation, from listening to Eckhart Tolle, who has examined many different religions, is that the intended (core) message at the heart of all mainstream religions is/was essentially the same. After starting off the same, the religions began to diverge from the fundamental truths, and from each other, over time, as they were subjected to more and more thought and academic scrutiny. They have been artificially bloated with people’s (mis)interpretations … so much so, that it is no surprise that the fundamental truths they intended to convey are no longer even decipherable to most.
That is why most people think that God owes them financial success, the guarantee of immortality for all their family members, and general good fortune, in exchange for a weekly trip to a building where the like minded gather for rituals. That is why I have never had any interest in any particular religion. I prefer to go deeper, to the fundamental truths, which are necessarily simpler than their counterparts (more like imposters) in organized religion. I don’t need fancy academic texts to tell me what those truths are. I don’t need to go to a building every Friday or Sunday, and perform rituals, to know what those truths are. If this is someone else’s practice, I respect it totally. But, it’s not mine.
Sorry if speaking what I consider to be the truth offended anyone.
I believe the rituals and writings are only to point the way. Experiencing it inside oneself is the only way to KNOW it. This is mentioned in some of the teachings. The instant we attempt to interpret and communicate something, we automatically change and diminish it.
“The instant we attempt to interpret and communicate something, we automatically change and diminish it.”
not true with math. math is definite. i sometimes wonder if math is proof of a god… but then i think of things that appear to be mathematically impossible but might exist anyway, like singularities, which would mean that if they exist that the laws of reality and space time are malleable.
Yes, one must experience it to know it.
Most writings I know of, do a poor job of pointing the way … they’re far too verbose and complex for the average person to comprehend.
Does one need 1000 pages (or however long the Bible is) to convey to someone that all you need is to honor the present moment fully and unconditionally ?
Sure, there are some great pointers in these teachings … “The kingdom of heaven lies within.” … “Forgive them for they know not what they do.” But, they have been greatly misinterpreted, it seems.
I was speaking to an acquaintance of mine, who is a “devout Catholic”. When I asked her to tell me what she thinks those two (above) quotes mean, she gave me an answer that was so superficial, so roundabout, completely missing the point … that it struck me that all those years she spent at the Church could have been better spent cleaning her garage.
The truths are almost too simple for the mind to get a handle on. Therein lies the problem. The mind tries to understand something that is just not meant to be understood by the mind.
“The mind tries to understand something that is just not meant to be understood by the mind.”
Existence as a human being incarnate.
IWP – Hehe, it will all make sense someday, my young friend 🙂
“Ordinary language is totally unsuited for expressing what physics really asserts, since the words of everyday life are not sufficiently abstract. Only mathematics and mathematical logic can say as little as the physicist means to say.” – Bertrand Russell