The “R U Ok” movement has every right to be laughed at. In fact, I haven’t laughed this hard since September 2017 last year looking at a similar popup. I thought this was a joke, till I googled it. It is basically a group of individuals querying people to talk about their problems, and I find it even more laughable asking it in hell a.k.a the suicideproject where most of us have REAL problems that can’t be fixed with the traditional CBT approaches. This cult of “Are You Ok” implies that every problem can be fixed by talking about it. It assumes the only reason for depression is a quick dart to the drawing board of positive thinking and everything will be fixed.
The whole cult of positive thinking and CBT can be attributed to smart Alec businessmen targeting the hopeless and depressed, or ill fortunate while they are tossing around the globe none the richer.
We are currently on the brink of a third world war approaching, with almost 1 in 5 kids in primary school already thinking about offing themselves. I find it startling how high depression in Australia is and that most of the time, it can be statistically modelled to give a Gaussian distribution showing the median of sad folk with a cobweb of problems and real life pain. I suffer from chronic pain, anxiety, depression, incel, and I have to commute to silly mind games like “Are you Ok” from the Hoi Polloi with severe handicapped issues unsure of who the are themselves.
Because if you pull the fucking veil off you’d realise the only serious people are depressed to a great extend. It is the generous souls who are depressed. It is us who did the right thing, studied, and failed as a result of a cruel world.
So, you viviocentric activists, fuck you!
45 comments
it wasn’t a movement thought up by idiots as a marketing ploy. Most things like that, like SP, are started by people who have been personally affected in some way. Oh look, wiki said r u ok was started by a guy whose father suicided. Magine that.
No it doesn’t imply every problem can be fixed simply by asking. Just that checking with an individual in this way is something doable. In a realm where we often dont know exactly what can help, we can’t expect others to. When most go-to resources aren’t certain and are often unavailable, it’s difficult to figure how to fix *that* issue. But they’re trying to find a way to be supportive and help, and that’s commendable even if there can be a gap between the effort and the recipient. Can we still feel alone with meaningful connection? Duh. Better than turning their backs completely. Better than pretending this isn’t something that is often felt by imdividuals.
Especially when loneliness and disconnect can accompany this so often, it’s an attempt to bridge that gap. And CBT has had positive results for certain individuals, as had positive thinking to an extent. Neither is usually a cure all but considering the fact the effects of the spectrum arent one size fits all different things do work for different people in different ways.
Your emphasis on “real” seems you arrogantly assume anyone who is depressed/suicidal without obvious external factors must somehow be suffering less. It doesnt need a clear cut reason to be experienced. Its not just the serious and generous souls who catch the bus.
x*****D Wrong side of the noose hahaha so here all the time. Funny stuff lol x*D
^ Wow looks like someone got up on the wrong side of the noose this morning.
OP, I understand exactly what you’re saying, and there is no “arrogance” in pointing out that big problems can’t be solved with talk. The R U Ok movement has good intentions, but so does the suicide hotline, which common folk think is the answer to every suicidal crisis. Sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade and say, real problems need real solutions.
Or someone who’s tired of mindless bashing. His tone is arrogant. Calling the people who started this “retards” just because it cant help and telling anyone who has this good intention to “fvck off” isn’t exactly reasonable or simply calling it a spade.
Sorry, he called the *movement* “so narcissistically arrogant it’s heading full retard”. Using retard as an insult still shows that arrogance.
Hi freeroma. I think if you clearly read my post again and my other posts, you will soon realise that I am not speaking out of arrogance or vague one-sided views. My experience with “support” groups have come along way, and the”R U Ok” movement is another “support” group targeting mostly depressed individuals feeling hopeless. If you think they are just there to offer a “helping” hand and lending an ear, think again. Even if they tried to help you miss the message. I am not necessarily angry at people who help; I get tired of how help gets offered – and also because of the “stigmatised” help being offered by these groups. You have to understand they get trained in a way to benefit the incentive holders of that organisation. They arent, believe it or not, just people doing it for a free trade, they do do it for incentives. Everything today is really about money and if you trace the connections that started these movements, you will soon realise, just like the Samaritans et al., they get paid to do the jobs they do, and heaps. Go look at the average salary they pay a Samaritan counsellor. Answer: heaps. And how many of the individuals truly get better?
I have a skeptical view on talking about problems to start with. There is little evidence that CBT type therapy actually work. And to suggest the shrink is just “trying to help” is missing the middle man. And no, pain can be measured. Some people can switch pretty fast between being depressed to sitting at the Doctor’s office eating an ice cream after a “panic attack” craze, and then forget all about it soon after; it is quite another thing to be unemployed, living with chronic pain, anxiety, and to be ignored and laughed at by the medical board and directees… I think the dichotomy can be realised most certainly: The serious top end of the bell curve are in serious pain, and “philantropic” support groups and suicide prevention groups aren’t welcoming these individuals and listening intentively, and fighting for better medicinal and pharmaceutical access; they are just following mainstream CBT advice that is plug and chuck . Take a peek at the posts on here. There are people with VERY serious dire problems that cannot just be fixed by “talking” about it, and especially when incentives play a role. Sometimes perspectives can changes one’s life for the better – not everybody is THAT lucky. But even if ALL support groups meant well, they are still doing a greater evil by not fighting for the “right” thing of truly making us access better and more efficient, cheap ******’s to keep those us in SERIOUS pain or depression alive, they are mainly doing it for publicity, or why do you think you have to fill that “form fields” in everytime they had their discussion with you?
I am not angry at emphatic support; I am angry when these “support” groups pester people and give them false hope that will inevitable cause them more pain and distress.
I find it startling that with all these “support” groups, none of them truly listens to you. While you are on the roll explaining your situation to them, they would give ad hoc advice like CBT training or refer you to a “specialist”(it always end with some referral to another Dr. Quack) to pop more pills into your bloodstream, and then inevitably ECT and frontal lobotomies… I can wear a shirt “You can’t fool me, I have been there”…
Call me arrogant any day and I will take that label – if arrogance implies you have had extensive experience with so called “crisis groups” and going from theory to practice and back again for as many years as you can remember. But I think if you approach your 30’s your pro life activisms soon wear off and, yes, even you will notice it too. If you had the agile experience with so called “enhancement support” your whole life, you realise how alone we truly are in spite of the many groups and philosophies out there.
Please don’t be alarmed that we are in the suicide prevention month – which is the breeding zone for institutions like the above to take ground.
freeroma, I call them “retards” out of pity, because I understand the Business world to a T. They create incentives to generate a cash cow and make you believe it is a good Will Hunting.
The “R U Ok” movement is foundationally built on a stigma that by asking people “if they are ok”, they are just inducing talk-therapy( what Government sanctions are proud of to keep you wanting to come back more), compared a general scope; instead of individualised action-based therapy. It is also hand in hand with the local suicide prevention groups – actively working to prevent people like you and me getting access to euthanasia. The question then becomes what if you are “not ok”. The best you will get is a chat with someone who have nothing more to offer you than ‘words of wisdom’. I do get it, by why not just invest your time in getting people who need help the help they need instead affordably, than pretending talking can make your problems vanish? Therapy focus is government induced. It is creating a false locus of happiness which instead of going out and fighting for a greater cause of achieving better access to facilities, they spit postive ‘affirmations’ to you in order to get you out of your so called “self induced” depro. This is typically what the Supreme Courts have done all these years – sanctioning these “groups” to get people to remotely feel better without actually doing anything lasting. I find this incredibly misleading for the Similar to a group they call the “Samaritans Inc.” it is installed by the Government officials and Agencies to refer you to their snake-oil referees and pay more money down the line; instead of granting you access to cheaper technologies that they have to get rid of your pain, and anxiety. Not that these pills and potions will necessarily work, but having access to them poses a much greater advantage factors than what simply words can be. But, It seems like a red herring to me, and I find it utterly misleading!
I like my red herring baked with some minced onions and bell peppers. There is no shot to the arm that will cure people of their malaise and despair. Even euthanasia poses the risk of growing that despair to otherwise unaffected individuals, much like suicide in general. Not saying that’s a sufficient reason to oppose it – I don’t really care either way. If I really wanted to die, I know how to make that happen. The problem here seems to be the ease of results. There is no convenient solution to any of this, and everybody wants to change the world rather than changing themselves. The cart doesn’t go before the horse unless you’re OK with standing still.
lol I do not have a “noose” in my room. I am just sick at movements who promote nothing more than the stigma as a diversion from the Higher forces. I would wish we get what we need – serious activism to get our failing medical and dental systems more affordable and accessable. But all we get for help is people in yellow shirts asking generic questions.
“I like my red herring baked with some minced onions and bell peppers.”
Thanks for the amphiboly. But I mean’t it in a serious tone. I did not make a case FOR suicide; I think people should fight on and make life better. I was simply showing you that these groups aren’t up for debates; they are there to push their own motives aside of logical sound reasoning, and offer the same pre-packaged airplane meals that every other group since Tony Robbins offered. The solution is this: focus on getting your hands a bit dirty and reach out to people who suffer from the things we need to complete the first stage of Maslow’s hierachy of needs: food, shelter, clothing, water. The very things that run dry in today’s society is not emotionally feeling better, but the capital to meet ends meet. If you call yourself a “charity” group, start jumping in and also help those everyday individuals who suffer to have a better than not chance of actually living a better life. Give the quid that you were going to buy your Aston Martin with, to people you know who has it worse than you. That is the first step to recovering a broken world, rivets. It is not, and has never been, heresy pop-psych speech. It is raw action. And most depression CAN be elevated if the bare basics are met. It is just sad that this is exactly what is hard to meet even being a basic person today.
As far as talk therapy goes, CBT seems to be one of the better ones at doing the thing psychology exists for – getting people to better conform to the society around them and find ways to adapt.
As far as WW3 goes, puh-lease. I mean, who would we all be fighting? China? Russia? Oh, wait.. Hm, point taken.
I was inferring a metaphor, not an actuality. It was semi oxymoronic 😉 WW3? We will never know till it happen!
I have yet to see evidence of how CBT can work
Trying things differently is a better strategy than doing the same thing over and over again all the while complaining about the outcome. How you think about the world around you shapes how you interact with it. I always figured that was common sense, but that kind of clarity is anything but common.
rivets, holy cow ! “Trying things differently is a better strategy than doing the same thing over and over again all the while complaining about the outcome”
And this is exactly what most people who suffer from constant depression have tried: helplines, support groups, and feel-good poppycock. None of it worked. Maybe this works for a the unde-aged, but this same advice can’t be packaged and marketed to EVERY individual who falls in the dark pit of hopelessness. I am only channeling my frustration at the focus of these groups and the mis-direction they take to focus on the latter ‘ people who feel a bit down for emotional reasons” rather than deductive, perpetual queries to truly make the lives better in order to get a more positive society in the first place. Why would this be so difficult? Answer: they take the easy way out…
Hey tiredofchronicpain, how are you?
I answered to your comment on your previous post – I couldn’t do it earlier, because I was very busy the last few days (I’m saying this to you, because I don’t want you to think that I didn’t care about your thoughts). Also, and if you want to, we can analyze and talk further about what you wrote.
(I’ll visit the SP again tomorrow – in about 14 hrs – so I won’t be able to respond to your comments until then)
Thanks Brother. Been waiting for your reply! 🙂
I clearly read this post already, and it’s the only one im addressing right now so you’re getting a oneshot opinion. Thanks tho, I’ve had a glance at one or two other posts here.
I simply dont agree with your interpretation in your post. I do know “most go-to resources aren’t certain” as I stated. To further clarify, I’m already aware the help offered isn’t necessarily helpful to an individual, “considering the fact the effects of the spectrum arent one size fits all different things do work for different people in different ways.” And i know someone who did find CBT helpful in working through some things. But suffering isn’t a completion wherever you land, it’s not a who has it worse. Being ok after recovering from an anxiety or panic attack doesnt mean the individual doesnt suffer any less. However yes after a certain level in attempting recovery it can be disheartening when the only suggestions thrown at you are ones that haven’t worked before.
Considering the fact people have to live off money and things are usually done with money its not surprusing. But I also refuse to believe all who work for or start these organizations do it solely for the incentives, as people have different motivations. And not everyone has a million dollars to throw around making new whatever to give more people access. People can’t work pro bono forever or they wouldn’t be able to maintain themselves. And with r u ok, it’s more an effort for everyday people to try to help meaninngfully. I know the help isn’t always helpful but it has an element of doing what you can, not everyone is a therapist or whatever professional. And yes people who work at these organizations are given standard training for suggestions because there’s only so many treatment options available. I know the current system needs fixed as its not always helpful.
Are you to going to get better from one conversation or even several? Probably not. I think helplines are more geared towards talking down impulsivity or a high level despair in the moment than long term anything. But even some on here have made progress with years of therapy and other support. Does it mean they don’t want to die, not necessarily. But some things got more bearable.
As to getting better, I think this tends to cycle. One thing helps here, some improvement. Next round does nothing.
I think you have to full out those form fields cuz there’s different people working at different times and or they don’t save individual info and or to make sure it’s all current.
Again, calling you arrogant due to tone of post. You do a better job at backing up your stance in comments. Insulting what you don’t agree with whatever the motivation however especially in such a manner doesnt help your argument in your original writing.
I dont agree with pro lifers who see living at any cost worthwhile, but I’m not calling them names because their pov is opposite mine. I can see where they’re coming from even if they can’t quite do the same for people on this side of the glass.
“You do a better job at backing up your stance in comments. ”
I back up all my points and give coherent arguments following my premises. What I reached I have concluded as per the above. So please outline how “help groups” are helping at all and contradict my position: that after years of trying to consult “help groups” I fail to see them working as they take the easy route out and as they are advertising themselves as “helping” they do not go the full mile; so they are again a joke.
I think… they must be one or more of these things. 1. They are doing it to make themselves look better. 2. They really don’t understand!
Also people suffer 365 days a year, not only one day.
When you’ve offered support on here have you done so to make yourself look better? Have you fully understood what the person was dealing with whenever you did so? Did not understanding make saying something a bad thing?
Why do you think they’re just pretending?
Yes people suffer 365. The helplines, doc offices and hospitals run every day for that reason. Stuff like this that happen on an annual basis are more for an awareness and recognition, just like other holidays or times set for certain groups.
I do not really reply to posts unless I feel I have something I can input. I never claim to understand anyone. Everyone’s story is different.
I bet if it were as easy as asking people ‘are you ok?’ and offering positive words, I really bet nobody would be depressed. It’s not something you can slap a bandage on and say ‘ta da! fixed!’. Well I don’t claim to understand depression so feel free to correct if I am wrong…
Take my example, if it wasn’t for one person who genuinely cared about me and gave me advice I’d still be stuck with my abusive father and no it did not come in the form of ‘are you ok?’ and a bunch of positive ‘support’ words.
I’ve been here long enough to see you offer kind words on a few posts. Empathy may not be the same thing as understanding but it doesn’t mean a person is pretending. Do you think any on here who have offered you encouragement is faking?
I dont think it’s as easy as that either. I see that more a conversation starter, as anyone taking that approach would realize after a bit it needs evolved.
I think that person also acted as a catalyst because of the high value you place on him. Its easier when the support comes from someone loved but not everyone has that kind of person to offer support, and even talking about your problems started somewhere with him.. Any one can offer good advice but it does tend to seem more meaningful depending on the connection, but just because one isn’t in place doesnt make the person noncaring, more impersonal.
And I think stuff like this might help those without that genuine person more. I know you didn’t always have this person. My point is this type of thing is something, even if it doesn’t help everyone.
No I don’t think they are faking, I had made a goodbye post… only that I came back soon enough. Anyhow I did thank anyone who commented on my posts and read them. Well I am lucky to have that genuine person. For nearly all of my life I did not have them.
anyway, advice to anyone: a person who cares that much, you really should hold onto them! such people are extremely rare.
I know some people here know me so… please don’t take the ‘genuine’ the wrong way. I’m not trying to offend anyone. I’m just saying this person put in a heck of a lot of effort and time to help me when they didn’t have to. It’s really unbelievable anyone would even try to help me that much…. and I used to think I was a lost cause…
*freeroma* thanks for your reply. No, I do not post to rub off my “agenda” like these support groups do. I tell people the truth. I am mostly here to lay an egg on how I would approach a problem, or if I think a problem needs fixing in the first place; not making people feel “positive and upbeat” and pretend their situation is only emotive based; unlike these brother of support groups…
*I mean to say ‘brothel’, not ‘brother’ lol.
I have called hotlines/helplines by the way. I didn’t find them useful. They just seemed to churn out positive stuff. But I figure others find them useful.
I keep getting misunderstood when I am trying to make this exact point fostering your status quo: Even if helplines mean well, they eventually fail to address people with dire and serious issues, the bunch who operate them are offering support for only temporary feeling better. And they intervene more into the generic instead of offer a serious helping hand for those who turn to incredulity from the exact stigmatised wide-spread help that they package in a different version; without the financial support ofcourse. Offering a line of hope is one thing, but the world doesn’t need more kind words-of-wisdom and modern day linguistic “hero’s”, we need individuals who can take charge, and talk less and steer the health systems, and society, by arming them with the tools they need to meet the bare necessities=: food, shelter, water, love, clothing. I am just distrustful that the majority need to answer generic questions situated for “feeling” better, when what we need is serious fixes in our society that we are lacking in the first place. And trying to feel “positive” is mainly the last thing we need, because the more up-beat we feel while hopeless, the less we will be able to truly attain constant tranquility as people will not be inclined to making a necessary change for the negative. Dopamine release can put one in a state of ease. Eventually this will plummet as the “feel good” cults will grow needy of the exact same resources we needed them to fight for.
Anyway I wanted to say. I think most things in this world are business deals. Take ‘friendships’ for example. It must benefit both people involved in the ‘friendship’ for their own needs/wants, or there wouldn’t be any ‘friendship’.
All people are drawn to incentives. Ofcourse I will not maximise this as it will err on the side of pessmism – so let us knock that edge off and say “all Bussinesses are drawn by incentives”. So as a final nail to the coffin, if these groups cared, do you think they will lend you a sum of money to get you back on track, or is “words” where it will end? I bet you can put your money on the latter…
This mean they get the dividend paid to those who pose as “support groups” when in turn they have their own agendas. I find it startling that a stranger will ask “if I am ok” but would not show me how I can improve my financial plan and get coverage of medical and dental – the very reason I am depressed, and many of us are. Or maybe it is just easier to focus on only the emotionally frail and leave out the rest as less-important? I am just frustrated that “personal feelings” are getting the time of day and “teenage melancholia” is the focus of the day. But as soon as you turn 21, or for heaven’s sake, 25, you are out of the focus of the modern day focus groups. The older we get the more serious financial harm could avail, and why are there no support groups for people in financial crisis when this is the number one issue for suicides globally?
Because other agencies are supposed to be around for tangible support like food stamps or certain health clinics or housing support or job placement agencies. Most resources seem stretched and it’s not as simple as giving people money, especially as quite frankly there’s a lot of people who in one way or another would squander it and still be in need, there’s not just an easy solhtion. Even those with situational problems usually have an emotional of mental aspect that needs addressed in tandem, especially as emotional/mental haven’t always been given proper attention.
If you want a group that has enough resources to address every possible issue you’d have to try to start it yourself because most anything is specialized in one way or another, and it’s probably involve the government in some way.
As I’ve said, this kind of thing is a start. I’ve never claimed it’s supposed to fix everything but it has a purpose.
“Most resources seem stretched and it’s not as simple as giving people money, especially as quite frankly there’s a lot of people who in one way or another would squander it and still be in need, there’s not just an easy solhtion”
Consider this: if every one of those support groupers earn minimum wage, 18 bucks and hour mas-o-menos? They could each give at least 20 dollars a day out, leaving them nothing short of a hundred dollars of savings living cheaper and more down-to-earth. That would make everyone just 20 dollars shorter of loot. That could mean a whole meal for every individual on the street or having a tought time, and could give another day of hope to a guy without the means for food. Again, you scapegoating the argument for ease. If they are a “help” group and quantify their “help” to include the whole subset of the population, why don’t they go a bit further to establish a charity-based wing?
“squander it and still be in need”
But if everyone in these support groups did just that I just showed you above that they would not only contribute GREATLY to a replacement individual other than themselves, they would prove themselves worthy of true help, since that is what “are you ok” implies. True help. Why choose the easy route if you are going to help? I have personally donated money and LIVED with people who were homeless. Why don’t they do it too? What keeps them from lowering themselves down the road to riches and truly help out for one fucking day in their lives?
That is my beef with these “help clowns” They do just go 1 mile, instead of the full. Why do I help people around me without wearing yellow coloured shirts and cranking up numbers just to drive another cash cow? You clearly do not get the message. They make you believe they are there to help you, but they are clearly not offering them what they can Fully, which means they are inconsistent; and as of words, that is all you will get from them. They put themselves out to be “help”, but is another extra word what we need as people? Really? Ever went to Africa?
“Even those with situational problems usually have an emotional of mental aspect that needs addressed in tandem, especially as emotional/mental haven’t always been given proper attention.”
Stop using disjunctive syllogisms by using “usually”. You are feigning ignorance! *usually* has little place in argumentative deduction. If I say people are usually evil, does that make all people evil?
And by what measure does *usually* stretch? It is a pathetic and disruptive way of arguing, so please stop equivocating. And what inference have you established? I see lots and lots of financially needy people, also suffering from ailments that keep them from being able to work not out of own fault. Is it too hard to switch places if you truly want to help?
“As I’ve said, this kind of thing is a start. I’ve never claimed it’s supposed to fix everything but it has a purpose.”
Horse shit! So is sitting at home counting your toes – I guess in this case, you can actually learn math. Talking to strangers by ticking off boxes for their problems has only been proven anecdotally true. I am surprised someone with half a brain CANNOT see this and keep quarrelling around help-whores who go for the easy targets; while they go home in their SUV’s, and watch TV while that very person whom they talk to suffer tonight under a fucking bridge! Go look at all these posers. They are all healthy looking, with 5 fingers on each hand, a healthy skin, healthy smile. They are not representatives of good help. Why not? Because their lives do not indicate that. They are part of a KPI driven fucking bussiness. They are not individually prompted! If you have honestly suffered from depression and real problems, you would NOT be saying that. These types of groups SHOULD frustrate the hell out of you. They are the complete anti-thesis of real help in our society; They take the easy route and most of them really do not care. You, son, have a lot of blind trust in people. I bet you are not older than 16!
You assume a lot about the people in these types of groups. Your financial argument says they all have the same needs, when that’s going to vary depending on where they live and who and what they have to take care of. Do you have five fingers? Would someone looking at you know you have chronic pain? Healthy looking or a smile doesnt automatically mean something, nor does it mean they aren’t caring for someone who isn’t healthy. You know nothing more about they’re lives than that they work for this organization, not even that as some could simply be volunteering, nor even what motivates them to do so. Any who partake in something like this such as schools or offices also aren’t guaranteed to be paid for it.
My aunt went through a period of homelessness In her youth due to a crack addiction, and her money went to one priority only. I’ve seen other people on the streets with signs looking for work.
Good for you, but not everyone is homeless for the same reason. Not everyone is willing to open their door to a complete stranger, especially if said home has children. Besides which, as stated there’s different organizations that are supposed to give that kind of help even if they too fall short, whether you see it as a cop out or not. You’re angry this thing can’t address all needs. I can see how it got started and why it would address a talking aspect, why it would direct people to certain therapies and im also not going to get angry at the people involved. Once you start doing something there is always something more one can do, why do you think this type of thing can’t grow? Therapy can loosely be compared to your ticking off boxes and yes that type of thing has helped.
If you say people are usually evil it would contradict them all being evil. Obviously you understand the point of such a qualifier but fail to see why I use it. As I dont see the world in black and white, it’s usually foolish to make statements as such without accounting for the other side. Your disagreement with my syntax isn’t my issue.
You keep missing my points, freeroma, after numerous attempts of explanation, that “awareness” and “action” are 2 different things. “R U OK? is only an awareness groups. Awareness groups alone just making people ‘aware’ not gearing anyone to action; they are unaware that private systems costs too much money; medicare is a failing system and CANNOT provide people with mental, physical, and emotional help anymore. The more we run to these systems after spreading “awareness” of them, they will soon turn into a depleting profit; services that do exist need to spend so much time trying to shore up their funding bases they have little time or energy left for actually providing frontline care. Care to figure out how much money “awareness” alone is raising? Most of these financial means could actually go into helping people, but it’s not. The money is spent only to raise more “Awareness”. So please explain to me why ‘awarness’ groups are so hand-in-hand with suicide prevention groups in why these groups exist as a de-factor instead of making an effort to improve and take action – suicide prevention groups only make it impossible for people to commit suicide, not actually tackling the issues of the “why”. Does this not sound like a 2-faced approach to you too? “R U Ok ” takes the same path…
This is also the reason why so many Australians laugh at these groups: they are the easy way out for an excuse to do something. The same groups pop up everywhere on every street corner, and the more these sister companies fail to provide the archetypal “awareness” to spread, they are just loading their bank accounts and then sit back and say ” we have done our part”.
The same can be said of the “#’ movements. You can hashtag all you want but you aren’t really doing anything constructive; compared to creating a funding system or care system yourself to do something about it. There IS something to do if you truly care: Go out and work to nurture these people and be their friends.” Why is this simple approach so ridiculous hard for you spineless- awareness activists to understand?
Can you not see my point? Can you not understand that we need people to take action and start caring; even if it is buying a burger or a meal to someone who do not have it easy and then help they by taking a burden onto yourself? I understand your points well; that these groups raise “awareness” and nothing more and they aren’t willing to do more; which is exactly my plight – they are just taking the easy route of raising awareness instead of the full journey to improving the world holistically. There is a symbiotic problem with awareness raising, the Government cannot subsidise the psychiatric counsels and groups for the people streaming in from these groups from all angles. It is a catch 22. The more the public is jolted into “awareness” , the more the troubled the same crap system that caused them their problem in the first place will be flooded. I have personal experience with this. There is very little the government and Supreme courts are WILLING to do for unemployment, pain, illness, depression, etc. The awareness groups know this well but continuously raise “awareness” for the wrong side – they public. But raising “awareness” to the same government that bullies people aren’t going to solve anything other than more individuals being frustrated by the sate of affairs they HAVE tried anyway before ad infinitum. They may even provide awareness, but what people in need NEED is full support. And this is not something these groups can or WANT to offer. That is why trusted charities like the salvation army, et al. are the only real way to include support and the closest to a caring organisation. We do not need more beyondtheblue.com.au type awareness groups. The CEO’s who run these groups make billions, and the money go uni-directional: into their pockets. They really do not give a rats arse about you or me. Maybe with time you will see it too.
If voting is mandatory in aus what the hell are y’all voting on.. jeez. I can understand people not being able to change things from the supreme court level but for at least local and federal govt you should have a say in putting something through..
Less your system is different to mine severely , although often legislators here dont draft things that are completely beneficial either.
The govt should look after its people. On that end yes I can see public awareness having an effect in reform tho not in this type of form. At Any rate if people given these things as a resource flood the system there’s an obvious need in the people. And sometimes they didn’t think there would be a resource they could go to in the first place, so in a sense the awareness thing let’s them know There’s a possibility of help. As I’ve said stretched resources which need reformed. Groups aren’t going to be able to help making more doctors, more openings in head places open tho, more openings
For other things.
There you go with the name calling again.. I wouldn’t have commented in the first place if you hadn’t started with that, especially with your use of retard.
I dont think helper helpee friendships are built to last on that foundation, and I also think there’s a pride factor in play with certain individuals, also an aspect of not just wanting to be seen as someone to help. Also going back to that different reasons for individuals in a predicament, not all take to being nurtured, and people need different types of assistance in any case, as certain types would allow enablement for certain individuals.
I still see the point of awareness groups, sorry. I wouldn’t be so assuming in knowing what the groups themselves are aware of either.
I dont have the energy to look up your claims about the founders of the things, or the bank accounts.
We do not live in a democracy , freeroma. Which is exactly why I feel so strong about it. The Government makes us believe it is a free trade and we can influence its decisions, but it is far from the truth. It only has a net capital to work from, and already know the inferences of sick people, one do not need awareness raising to do it, especially when thousands of people are already aware they need a change and in tandem, apply for benefits and disabilities, and yet get ignored…
I do, however, understand that there are a groups of people known as “worry wellers” who can benefit from awareness raising and vocal support. Many of them need a bit of a push to get things done. But at the other end, I am offended when these same groups force their stigmas combined with suicide prevention strategies, and would fight tooth and nail to keep you alive, and then offer nothing in return.
I have suffered from a lot of things, not only pain. But why should this be? There are a lot of investment profit that could help the very people who want to work but can’t, but the State rather use it to launch another missile preparing for a “world war” than helping its fellow citizens. Take a look at the homelessness and suicide rates per annum in Australia alone, it should shock you.
There are, in fact, a lot of chronic pain awareness groups. They have operated since the 1980’s have not come far. They were also included in the liberal “freedom fighters”. Many who just stand and toi toi with posters in front of parliament buildings( yeah, even these groups were more vocal than the “R U OK” and suicide prevention groups today). And many of them had strikes to enforce the Government to make changes. I think many lack backbone today to have these strikes, but it is the only way to make changes. To go stand in front of Parliaments and Government owned institutions and annoy the hell out of them to start changing stuff.
That is why I think the best “awareness” one can do is to take individual action, listen and serve those in need yourself and be willing to go through thick and thin with them. You know what your motives are.
Many of these organisations operate on non-sequitors and commit the excluded middle fallacy, when indeed we all know the pink elephant in the room by now: Governemnts ignoring our proposals, but we aren’t even brave enough to tackle the problem and jump into cold water and expect others should change things for us? So why not make an attempt at action yourself?
People care more about themselves and their own slice of pie than worrying about others in need. I see it everywhere. The homeless left alone on the street, where they would get harassed and robbed from by boy racers and neds. I don’t see the masses really care enough, but only about themselves. Which is why again, awareness raising is pointless. Because whom are you raising it to? State? Public? Both saw what’s wrong, yet are unwilling to lift a finger…
People are cowards, as per Jack Kervorkian’s magnum opus “Doctors are cowards, they will never admit they can’t help a patient”. I feel many of these groups chase tail and don’t know what they are after.
We are more alone in this pit of hell than we think, Sometimes, there really aren’t any solutions…
“I still see the point of awareness groups, sorry. I wouldn’t be so assuming in knowing what the groups themselves are aware of either.
I don’t have the energy to look up your claims about the founders of the things, or the bank accounts.”
You cannot just believe in pink Unicorns when it suits you: The burden of proof is on “awareness groups” to prove how they actually help and they haven’t met it this far. If “raising awareness” sounds positive to you, just go a step further to look at current and past awareness groups with the same motives and how they have affected society. The awareness groups are even more vague than those in the 60’s by the hippies propagating the use of maruijana and peace, and this certainly didn’t make the Governments fond of them either; if living in bushes and making love is your standard of success, maybe we live in different worlds then. I think self-honesty and equitable rationality would steer you to Hanlon’s razor: awareness raising for a benefit is questionable. I still would take the label as “arrogant” and stand firm by my “retard accusation” label as before. It seems as if these groups steer awareness, and cash flow too. Just look at the net revenue companies like Lifeline(Incorporated) make for yourself, and then inquire yourself about what these companies, other than getting people to stop committing suicide, has done for them individually.”#theblackdog” once again. I think you know the answer already…
“The govt should look after its people.”
Argumentum ad absurdum again! The Government doesn’t give a fuck about its people, only about themselves.
Pink? Nah. Unicorns, absolutely.
Im not going to assume your claims are true just cuz you say them, as absurd as that may seem to you. Youre also assuming things about me again, which are neither here nor there. You have no idea what my standard of success would be. And yes I do believe the govt should look after its people, whether they do so in actuality or not. Sorry you don’t think so too. And yes people are going to care about themselves or the things that personally affect them. Going back to how r u ok was initially started by a guy affected by a suicide. You don’t see my point, fine but I’m not restating it.
And obviously if you stand by an ignorant insult you’ll stand by the resulting arrogant as well.
“Going back to how r u ok was initially started by a guy affected by a suicide”
That is besides the point if he was “affected” or not. It is funny that you are on SP and at the same time are a pro life activist…
What you are actually saying is he had an emotional streak away because his father did not want to live anymore? So he goes by and prevent others offing themselves? That is basically the flagship idea behind Lifeline, suicide prevention, and all the other hype. Isn’t it interesting that all these “awareness” groups pose as awareness groups but are actually responsible for the evil of anti-euthanasia campaigns, the very thing that Jack Kervorkian and Phillip Nitschke has to to fight all their lives to get people to have a safe end of life plan? They are the devils who keep the elderly in prisons and unable to go to a local euthanasia clinic when they choose to die peacefully. So when you get in a car crash one day and experience excruciating pain, throw them a “hi” from your side; thanks to them, none of us can get exposure to a death surrounded by loved ones like the ancient greeks could have in their time.
“And yes I do believe the govt should look after its people, whether they do so in actuality or not”
I haven’t said the Government SHOULD NOT look after its people. Obviously they should; I said they do not give a rats arse. Are you seriously for real buddy? I mean, are you just seriously mentally challenged or playing a prank? I do not know what is to blame for your uncanny mistakes.
”
Pink? Nah. Unicorns, absolutely”
No point in continuing a debate with someone who is 14 years old of mind.
Him being affected isn’t besides the point. He cared about something that had an impact in his life. My comment being in response to your people only care about their “slice of the pie”, if you forgot. So what im saying; he’s taking his experience with suicide and in his eyes doing something about it. I still never claimed it to be a cure all, and in fact stated my opinion on living at any cost belief. I’m not saying there aren’t more effective programs, but there remains a purpose.
I’ve read an account of a woman who being in a position to want an end of life plan in place ultimately argued against their availability. Theres a wife of a man who qualified for it arguing for the abolishment of such because he decided to live instead and they had a child before he died. People being affected by their experiences and acting on that isn’t irrelevant either, as its not just blind pro lifers with no understandig arguing against euthanasia.
You seemed to have some issue about govt claim.
Yet again with insults.. sigh. I wonder how far that gets you in other conversation. Funny how the existence of unicorns is a goto example of absurdism.. yet by technicality of having one horn plenty exist.
“Theres a wife of a man who qualified for it arguing for the abolishment of such because he decided to live instead and they had a child before he died. People being affected by their experiences and acting on that isn’t irrelevant either, as its not just blind pro lifers with no understandig arguing against euthanasia.”
Blimey, and what about people who are in terminal pain and just really WANT to end their life and go to a clinic? We have our pets euthanised when their expected quality becomes low, why shouldn’t we also have that luxury?
Again you are an extremely one-sided individual. But to exalt pro life because 1 person seemed to have a betterment in their lives emits a weak case for the a priori other groups who do not find furtherances, and frankly, who just want to die in peace. Why does this always pose a stalemate to you pro lifers?
You seem to miss that the example shows different thinking processes. I already know your stance but you seem to not consider any other viewpoint as being valid.
Validity has to do with sound premises. You did not provide the burden of showing why awareness raising CAN help. That is the honest way of providing an argument.