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Well… since this place has become a shit hole…

by hope432

I will talk to the admin to remove my account. I would have meaningful discussions with people here in the past. Unfortunately, every decent person has long left the website. I spent 5 years here and my life eventually improved. This place was meant to be a place of hope (you can read more about the website and this was written by the admin).

“The Suicide Project is a website devoted to allowing people to share their stories of desperation and depression… and ultimately of hope. We hope that by allowing people to share their stories of despair with one another, they can find a reason to live, a reason to survive another minute. Another hour. Another day.”

Unfortunately, it has become a shit hole. I have my reasons to say that, trust me.

This is not a hatred post. And it’s my sincere hope that at least one person who read my posts over the years has gained some hope and improved his or her life in some way or another.

As for suicide, what it’s sure, and what I’ve noticed all these years:

  1. It’s not an escape from life. Life continues in some way or another.
  2. It’s some of the worst decisions someone can make no matter his or her agonies during his life and it also damages relatives (if you don’t care about relatives or any human being on this planet, this says something about you… but I don’t really judge anyone as I know myself how hard life can be and how it can devoid someone of feelings)
  3. Life can be improved a lot and become worth living again. Even if you don’t improve your life too much and feel it’s not worth living, in truth it’s still worth living because death just opens the door to a lesser form of life where you feel even more dead than before.
  4. If you are an atheist, you believe that nothing comes after death and you desire annihilation because of the ‘wrongs’ of others and much suffering, this is your decision. Even if annihilation were possible (I strongly doubt this) by a bullet in your head, it would be the worst decision and event considering that life is sacred and this is all we are. This is all we have – LIFE

So, take care of yourselves if you can. If you choose suicide, that is your decision. If you want to be erased, this is still your decision. I simply don’t really judge anyone. After all, any feeling and thought a human being can experience does have a meaning, bad or good or neutral.

My sincere hope is that you choose life and not death.

What else can I say…. in possibly my last post…. Life is sacred and precious despite its agonies, it can be improved a lot, especially in this age of our history…. you just need to find  some meaning, some love, health and well being as much as you can. Live to your full potential.

 

 

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43 comments

vagabond 6/4/2020 - 1:56 pm

Honestly, I don’t think it’s this site that’s changed. I think it’s the internet, and the attitude of people degenerating in general.

hope432 6/4/2020 - 2:42 pm

Unfortunately yes, the world degenerates daily…. but there is still hope. Before a new age emerges there is always chaos. Humanity has survived worse times like world war 2, concentration camps, middle ages, etc.

Abnormal.Thoughts 6/5/2020 - 8:11 am

I hate to see you go, you always offer positive feedback which can be very helpful.
Also, you don’t have to delete your account, you can keep it if you decide you want to come around occasionally later on.

hope432 6/5/2020 - 8:39 am

Hello there… thank you for your post, I am unstable myself and although I did help some people on the website (they have long left this place hopefully for a better life) I may be of help elsewhere, in future. I need to rebuild my life although it has somehow improved a lot compared to where I was in 2014-2015.
Thank you for your post. Perhaps you are right and I should not delete my account. But I have already deleted my 50-60 posts I have posted over the years. This is sad.
Also, devilisclose although extremely mean in his post for wishing me to get cancer, may have been right. Suicidal people need more than my advice.
As a matter of fact you also need to build strong spirituality in order to have a meaning in your lives and to improve them.

But most people here seem to be atheists or reject any form of spirituality. Some desire annihilation. It’s so sad and horrible.

Considering the many horrors we witness on our planet these and the worse that is to come, only spirituality can save us. And by spirituality I mean all the good advice form every religion. And this is just an aspect. We need much more.

If I had meaningful discussions with people here like in the past, I would not even consider deleting my account.

But perhaps, I will find another more meaningful community?

a1957 6/6/2020 - 3:28 pm

I have found spirituality essential to my well being. Science can not explain me, you, or anything else fully. It is a tool and a servant.

Sbilko 6/5/2020 - 8:46 am

Hi hope432, it’s sad to see you go. I too went through a similar path to the one you walked through — I was desperately searching for meaning for about 3 years; I went from philosophies to Buddhism, then digging into its concept of Enlightenment. That led me to some really dark places, all the while I refused to believe anything that I couldn’t test for myself. And when I realized that our reality is built over another reality which matches the description of the Bible, and that at the top of it is the ultimate overflowing fountain of Love, I instantly knew that Jesus is truly God, who came down from the Heavens, to teach us how to Love Him who is everything, and each other. The void inside me vanished, I found so much more than the answers to my questions. We’re all brothers and sisters, all in this together. I’d love to hear your story and share mine too; if you’d like to, please email me at: ironasky@gmail. com

As for the internet, memes and humour degenerating — I think that it says something far deeper than it seems: freedom and humour are the two best pointers towards truth. Humour is funny because it tells a truth that lies underneath the surface — we laugh because we all know the unspoken truth, and that it’s under the surface. It’s the reason why some people don’t get the joke sometimes — because they aren’t aware of the truth that lies underneath the surface. Now, the deep thing that I think all this ‘degeneracy’ of humour shows, is the inherent wickedness of the human heart. All the internet memes have brought to the surface so many hidden truths, that only the deepest one remains, the very reason why truth is hidden underneath the surface: the wickedness of the human heart.

vagabond 6/6/2020 - 1:07 am

Damn that shit was deep

a1957 6/6/2020 - 3:31 pm

Spot on.

Abnormal.Thoughts 6/5/2020 - 9:59 am

Hope and Sbilko, were either of you raised in a religious environment? I was, it wasn’t necessarily bad but as I grew more mature I realized how oppressive it was amidst my family and the other members.
I’m a female and religion is very sexist so I can’t get behind that. When people say spiritual I can agree a bit more but any of the gods or deities that are preached about I have issue with.
I don’t want to dissuade anyone from their own beliefs but just know religion isn’t for everyone and for some it might even be at the root of the pain.
Anyways, religion stuff aside, I hope you stick around and continue to offer positivity. Not everyone will understand where you are coming from but someone might. I think everyone on earth already knows the dangers of smoking but similar to my opinions on cutting, whatever it takes, if it keeps you alive it’s worth trying. Smoking you can still live to an old age and I’ve known many elderly smokers who don’t have cancer, it’s like a roll of the dice.
I’m rambling now but don’t be afraid to hang around.

hope432 6/5/2020 - 10:54 am

You two people have made my day! Thank you both! I may still come to this website after all although I did delete many of my posts (nobody would read them anyway because this site doesn’t get indexed by google very well). I will soon write you a longer answer. I already feel better. Yesterday I had some serious problems with one of my teeth, which had been fixed by the dentist 5 months ago and I felt devastated.

Abnormal.Thoughts 6/5/2020 - 11:32 am

Tooth pain is the absolute worst. Sorry.
Also, I haven’t tried subscribing to anything but a little notifications icon for replies would be nice. This site isn’t very good at keeping older posts alive. Oh well.

hope432 6/5/2020 - 11:32 am

“Hi hope432, it’s sad to see you go. I too went through a similar path to the one you walked through — I was desperately searching for meaning for about 3 years; I went from philosophies to Buddhism, then digging into its concept of Enlightenment. That led me to some really dark places, all the while I refused to believe anything that I couldn’t test for myself. And when I realized that our reality is built over another reality which matches the description of the Bible, and that at the top of it is the ultimate overflowing fountain of Love, I instantly knew that Jesus is truly God, who came down from the Heavens, to teach us how to Love Him who is everything, and each other”

I am happy for you that he you found Jesus and a miracle in your life finally happened as it also happened for millions of people in search for meaning.
I am glad that the void inside you vanished.
Although I am not Christian, I was raised by Christian parents. However, my father was a fanatic Christian and the answers my mother gave never satisfied me enough.
But the thing is the Christian God really exists and He is holy. This is proved by a mountain of evidence (Near Death-Experiences), miracles, the power of prayers, people who find meaning in their lives. Also, history has been written after the coming of Jesus on earth. Most historians refer to the birth of Jesus and there is also proof that he truly existed as it’s found in letters of Roman people. There are also many times He appeared in visions to many people.

Anyway, all of this does not mean that Christianity is the only true religion. There have been many beings of light who walked this troubled earth. According to Buddhists, there is a Buddha in every hell who gradually leads people out of there.
But there are also many wrong types of Buddhism and meditations and there is a great jungle on the internet with each people claiming to know the truth. So, how to discern the truth from the false?

hope432 6/5/2020 - 11:38 am

@Abnormal.Thoughts, you are right on this point. Many religions are as you say ‘sexist’ especially Islam. Besides, every religion is corrupted to some degree or another and far from the original teachings given. But there still some truth and meaning in them and I hope you will find it, too.
Thank you for understanding my need for smoking. Anyway, tomorrow I plan to give it up, lol.

@Sbilko, are you female too like Abnormal.Thoughts? I noticed that it’s easier for women to gain faith unlike men.

@Abnormal.Thoughts, you can share your email address too if you want. There is more to herbal remedies than I mentioned to the website and they help me daily a lot. They also cleanse my body of the effects of smoking and regenerate my mind.

Sbilko 6/5/2020 - 12:11 pm

Hi Abnormal.Thoughts and hope432,

No, I’m a man. Perhaps this is related to why I was incredibly stubborn in refusing to believe in anything I could test for myself. But God is merciful, He found a way, and He is Love, and I rejoice that I am His forever!

All those who say they’re Christian yet their heart isn’t overflowing with Love, are Christian only in name. There are many ‘Christians’ like the ones described in 1 John 3:17 I think the biggest one today is Trump brandishing a Bible as a symbol of law and order, completely forgetting about the new, soft and loving heart, which Lord Jesus Christ freely offers.

Love, Love in one’s heart, how can it be said — it is invisible to the hard heart, but to the loving one it is like water before a thirsty mouth.

I look at history, and as far as I know all modern attempts of genocide have never succeeded in annihilating a people. Anger boils, the fires of revenge fanning the politics since ever — yet blind that they wouldn’t be able to play their politics games if someone before them didn’t have Love in his heart: Love for the world, to know how it works, and God’s Love in his heart, treasures unspoken.

There is a folk story in Albania, of a mother telling her Christian son: if you one day cross your path with a muslim, don’t harrass him, for he could be your brother who had converted. And now I look at the country, where they love their neighbour — so contrasting with Bosnia, where people forgot that there was a time when the Hungarians sent crusades to murder the people for heresy (again, I haven’t seen a successful genocide, always only harm and resentment).

We’re all brothers and sisters in this together, in an environment of psychological warfare which is hellbent on turning us against each other (why? because of past resentment, or ambition, etc.)

no name 6/5/2020 - 12:17 pm

theres no hope in getting me to “believe” at this point i have my own religion. however i am interested in why whenever i asked a question to anyone they have failed to answer me yet still insist that i should believe in something they clearly dont understand themselves? it just seems foolish to me to blindly follow something and if you are blindly following something thats typically how you end up in a cult.

Abnormal.Thoughts 6/5/2020 - 2:39 pm

I’m terrible at checking personal emails so you would likely never get a response. Lol. I get enough emails with work to burn me out on that. You can email me any good information on the herbal remedies if you like, kayko88@msn.com

I have my own set of faith, I have faith that the world will heal itself and despite the fact that humanity is trying it’s best to destroy the ecosystem we will be wiped out at some point by a force of nature. Humans begone and the world will continue. It sounds dark but really the world is beautiful without us.
Seriously though, humans aren’t all powerful or the best things in the universe, we’re just a part of the machine. Life will go on without us. I don’t think my individual life will be divinely affected by any holy being, I do tend to disagree with evolution and the big bang theories but that doesn’t mean there isn’t some other profound explanation for life being what it is.
Now I’m reading that and I feel like my high thoughts are coming out. But I already wrote it so I’m not going to delete it. Lol.

Soda 6/5/2020 - 10:13 pm

Hi Hope432, overall I’ve found SP to be a pretty good site. Like you’ve I’ve been here for many years posting on and off, much less this past year.

It’s the only place I’ve really come to when I’ve had suicidal thoughts and it’s good to know you’re not alone and there are like-minded people here.

Whenever I’ve posted I’ve always strived to be positive and helpful, because I find it’s easier to give good advice/support to others than to help oneself generally.

But when it comes to the topic of suicide, I am neutral. To those who want to improve their lives (like I do), I’ve offered positive suggestions. To those who are set on ending it, then I don’t get in their way and I know they have good reasons to do so, just as I’ve had.

Generally I’ve found your posts to be positive and sometimes thought-provoking. But I differ with you on some of the claims you made. What’s the point of getting people to live an extra minute, day, year, etc. It’s absurd, there is nothing to be gained.

Then in your points above you tried to imply that even if people commit suicide they’ll continue to exist, even though there is absolutely no evidence of non-bodily existence, it’s nothing more than religious dogma. In fact the evidence shows once you die you’re gone forever, there is no other realm or afterlife or scientists would’ve already discovered it.

You seem to implore people to keep living no matter how terrible their life becomes. It appears to be a detachment from reality and a disconnect from the very real suffering people experience. I don’t think that’s beneficial to them in any way.

We will all die eventually, none of us will escape it. So the question really is, is life worth living if all we do is suffer? We can easily recognize this dilemma with our pets. People don’t hesitate to think of ending their pet’s suffering when they are old or diseased, they have them euthanized.

Once humanity grasps this simple lesson that suffering (of any life) is bad and death is a good way to end it, then a lot of pointless, unwanted misery can be ended.

Life is not sacred, though it is special and it is nice to be alive when you have your health, a good income, family/friends, etc. When you lose all those things then life is painful, torturous and it must be ended if we are to be decent moral citizens, esp to each other.

Obviously that is a personal decision. Some people are fine being lonely, miserable, depressed, in pain and they want to live every second they have till their final breath.

But most of us who are sane, rational individuals understand that is not a life, but a form of punishment and unnecessary suffering and this is why we seek an end to it through suicide/euthanasia. Nobody should have to live in constant agony and to encourage that is not being helpful but harmful.

hope432 6/6/2020 - 3:14 am

You know Soda…. many times I am neutral about suicide too considering that I was suicidal myself and I know how it feels. I also see the agony that people experience here… and it’s hard to get out of this. But my life eventually improved and now I want to live. You say that evidence shows that when you die you are gone forever… but this ‘evidence’ made by some 20th century scientists who happens to be an atheist and also have a reasonable and easy life goes against all world religions, the mountain of evidence from near-death experience, people who can have out of body experiences, visions and common sense.
If there is nothing after death, then there is no justice in the universe. Every form of justice is relative. Humans can do to others what they please.
There is also no reward after death.
There are also no other forms of life. No bliss, no heaven.

Just this bleak and random life where some people prosper and others live in pain their whole life according to a random process and a matter of chance.

….. You should know that there is more to life than what most scientists claim. There are synchronicity phenomena, ghosts phenomena which are unexplained by science, objects moved by invisible forces, people who feel demonic pressures or voices which tell them to commit suicide. How does science explain all of this?
It’s everything in the ‘brain’?

Soda 6/6/2020 - 1:39 pm

@Hope, I’m glad your life improved, so did mine and I think our perspectives on suicide changed accordingly.

However many lives don’t change or get better. For some people it gets increasingly worse over time and encourage people to keep going is pointless and detrimental.

Reality is always the ultimate arbiter and no pep talk or positive thinking will dissuade people from realizing when a situation is truly hopeless in which case the smart thing to do is seek a hasty exit.

While my life has gotten better there was a time it didn’t feel that way but I only stuck around for my family members who I know would be much worse off if I wasn’t alive. If not for them at the time it was the right choice to end it.

Life is completely overrated. If someone is doing well, good for them, they got lucky, but many didn’t. We were forced into existence by our parents. If I didn’t ask for this life why should I have to live 80 more years of it?

I’m just providing justification for the need for freely accessible euthanasia for anyone at any time, for their asking. If there’s anything we as a species can agree on is the voluntary right to die.

There is no such thing as an ‘Atheist or Christian Science.’ There is only Science which is based on empiricism and rationalism. Gravity, Quantum Mechanics, biology, chemistry, etc. are all based on the laws of our universe.

NDE, out-of-body experiences are nothing more than altered brain-states, people on drugs have similar experiences. If people actually left their bodies, this would be detectable by scientific instruments but that has never happened nor will.

Theists like to pretend they have knowledge of things beyond science but there is nothing outside our universe. There is no magical, supernatural realm. That’s the problem, once you start believing in fairy tales, then you’ll basically believe anything even if it’s not based in fact or reality.

The trouble is that Theists like yourself fail to do any error-checking, you just believe everything that you were indoctrinated into while being highly skeptical of real science.

I’ve always been science-minded even as a young kid. I was a Christian and decided to put praying to the test, I realized it didn’t work. I tried to hear Jesus’ or God’s voice, I realized I was only hearing myself. Very soon after I realized religion was a pile of lies and a house of cards that quickly fell apart.

As for living forever, where did you get the idea that the universe is supposed to be just? Have you seen photos of space? Nothing but endless blackness with billions of stars/galaxies. There is no celestial overlord, it’s just us creatures born on this beautiful wet giant round rock.

Minds require physical brains, once the body dies so does our conscience. There is no such thing as a bodiless consciousness. If you could prove there was, you’d become world famous and get a Nobel prize. You’ve invested in the house of cards I mentioned, I hope one day you’ll see religion for the fraud and scam that it really is.

no name 6/6/2020 - 2:01 pm

i have a weird feeling much like how you said “encourage people to keep going is pointless and detrimental.” telling this person and even giving them, i wouldnt call it proof because there isnt hard evidence and science is always changing (because thats what happens, you learn new stuff as you go through life) but you definitely gave a good logical argument however they most likely are going to argue with something for some reason even though its like i said in my previous comment on this post. they keep preaching and saying we should believe in something when they clearly have no idea what it is themselves. i personally think you wasted your words however its nice to see that someone else agrees with me. i mean really, where would that many people stay? a lot of people and animals have died since the dawn of time and many more are still dying. there isnt room for everyone no matter what afterlife you believe in.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 3:15 pm

@No Name,

Thanks, I liked your post also. If I could boil religion down to one sentence I’d say “they’re faking it.” Some are consciously aware it’s all a crock of you know what, while others prattle on thinking it’s real but they’re just deluded and trying to delude others.

I say that because when I used to be a Christian, I felt there was something really fake about it. I knew there was no God or Jesus since I never observed these people so I thought perhaps ‘faith’ worked, until I put it to the test.

That’s when I ended the play-acting and decided to live in reality. I’m sure they all have their doubts, but the trouble is that they just refuse to go down that rabbit-hole because they’re afraid of losing religion or their Christian community, so they block it all out and cling to the gibberish they’re taught in church, by people who themselves don’t know what they’re babbling about.

In fact there are many pastors/priests who themselves realized religion is a farce and became Atheists but they had no other skills so they keep preaching.

Yes spot on. I used to think religious people could be reasoned with but most will never accept logic/science. So I really post for genuine doubters, fence-sitters, the Christians who also sense it’s bs but lack the language to articulate it.

See the fact that you replied proves to me there are other bright bulbs out there and my words haven’t gone to waste.

I have come across some Theists who are so hardened in their views, that they can pose a serious threat to non-believers. The Christians here are fairly nice but go on some of the more right-ring sites and you’ll see how bigoted and full of hate they are towards anyone that is not Christian.

That is disturbing that we cannot reason with some people because conversation is all we have. But that’s also a warning to those of us who are Atheists/non-religious to be on guard against the more ignorant wing of their group, it’s even worse for Islam, though I have deconverted a few open-minded, decent Muslims.

Ya the afterlife is a joke, it’s nothing more than wishful thinking….to want to live forever, then to believe without evidence that it happens. People need to learn to be as skeptical of the promises religion makes as they are of car salesmen.

I’m actually glad we’re finite beings and there is no Saddam Hussein in the sky watching over us. Imagine living with Christian psychopaths or Islamic jihadists forever because god forgave them. What a bunch of malarkey.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 3:18 pm

*right-wing

no name 6/6/2020 - 3:26 pm

im cool with people having religion. everyone needs thier little slice of hope. my opinion is its fake and a waste of time however to believe there is something “other worldly” out there that isnt an alien from mars but if you believe in it then thats your opinion. but if youre gonna start preaching it and acting like its the be all and end all and were all going to die a horrible painful death if we dont believe then yeah, now i have a problem and its time to keep your thoughts to yourself. its ok to have an opinion its a whole other thing to force your views on to others.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 5:15 pm

I used to think that way also, but that’s in an ideal world. In the real world Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc all think they are right and when they are the majority they dominate and force their religion on everyone.

This is why we continue to have religious wars in the 21st century because 6 billion of them are stuck in the Dark Ages and are trying to drag all of humanity back to a more primitive/barbaric time.

So I’ve become an Anti-Theist in that I actively oppose the spread of their ideology because once they get the upper hand, we’ll turn into another Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or like the USA where women’s health care rights are trampled upon and Euthanasia is banned.

This is happening only because Christians are the majority and are forcing their will through legislation on all of us, they must be opposed and defeated.

Generally I also don’t care what people believe until they act on them and support politicians who enforce Christian or Sharia law on non-believers, then you have a real battle for freedom on your hands.

no name 6/6/2020 - 5:21 pm

sadly youre right and that is just the world we live in. if they took the blinds off their eyes and the cotton out of their ears maybe the world would be more peaceful. i did always think that wars were nothing more then the government being childish twats because someone looked at them the wrong way.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 7:43 pm

Thanks and agreed. Unfortunately they won’t free themselves from religion, even when we try to open their eyes for them. I have some religious friends I’ve worked on for years and they just don’t listen or change. That’s the sad reality of brainwashing.

Sometimes wars happen over greed but mostly it’s ideology, Capitalism vs Communism or Fascism but I think the next big war is going to be against Islam assuming we don’t wake up soon enough and ban this death cult.

no name 6/7/2020 - 8:11 am

This is why I’m pagen. The entire thing is just be nice. After that it doesn’t matter what you believe in. As long as your nice. It’s the only religion I found that isn’t stupid and overrated. I mean who can disagree about being nice lol. You don’t have to believe in gods/goddesses or the afterlife and you can still keep a moral compass.

Soda 6/7/2020 - 9:44 am

I hear you and as I recall Paganism taught people to respect animals and nature, which makes a hell of a lot more sense than praying to the great nothing in the sky and hating those who don’t.

I find some ideologies like Greek/Roman/Indian mythologies/religions to be wonderful and instructive. So long as we take religions to be myths/fables/legends, then there is something to be gained from them. It’s when people take them as the literal truth, that problems start happening.

However at the same time I think all religions have weaknesses and blinders. They also spread stupid ideas like “love your enemy” in Christianity.

That leaves people unprepared to defend themselves and will lead to their enslavement or death. I’m in the same camp as C. Hitchens, I want to see my enemies eliminated.

There’s a good saying “Study one religion, and you’ll be hooked for life. Study two religions, and you’re done in an hour.”

no name 6/7/2020 - 9:49 am

Yeah. I don’t agree with loving your enemy. Like dude they’re your enemy for a reason. One should not love those who have wronged you. Forgive and forget yes. That will take stress away from you but don’t love them and don’t befriend them.

(yeah that’s basically paganism)

Soda 6/7/2020 - 2:38 pm

Agreed, I also believe in trying to avoid making enemies, like you said forgive/forget, but then there are people/groups who are not interested in peace, but want to destroy us, it is those people that need to be defeated.

While Christianity is teaching ‘love your enemies’ Islam is teaching ‘kill the infidels’ and no surprise Muslims are genociding Christians and other minorities in Africa and the mideast as we speak.

Currently we have our heads in the sand with the war Muslims are waging against humanity, we should’ve woke up on 9/11 but we didn’t and many people are still paying with their lives because we don’t want to accept we’re at war and need to fight back.

no name 6/7/2020 - 2:45 pm

lets just get the whole world stoned. they cant fight each other if they have couch lock lol

Soda 6/7/2020 - 11:53 pm

Ya but then everyone will be a stoner and the economy will crash. hehe

no name 6/8/2020 - 12:22 am

Not if the government legalizes it. Then all that money goes to them. Ok not all of it because of employees and what not but some of it. So we give them couch lock then once everyone clams down well give them a sativa and send them back to work lol.

hope432 6/6/2020 - 3:22 am

“We will all die eventually, none of us will escape it. So the question really is, is life worth living if all we do is suffer? We can easily recognize this dilemma with our pets. People don’t hesitate to think of ending their pet’s suffering when they are old or diseased, they have them euthanized.”

I simply don’t see anything meaningful or worthy which death can bring to someone.
It’s true, if someone suffers from terminal cancer, you let him or her die.

I am somehow neutral too about suicide. I see the agony. I don’t have answers for every question.

I simply know that life continues to exist. If it did not, something you cannot even bring in your imagination, then it would mean annihilation. Nobody has proved that ‘annihilation’ if it were possible it wouldn’t be painful or such a ‘state’ of non-existence it would mean the end of pain. We know nothing about pain! We don’t scientifically know what is emotional pain. We don’t know.

If you contemplate these things, these emotional states like despair, grief, feeling numb, you will see that they are beyond the organic, beyond the body even if felt inside the body.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 2:01 pm

See that’s the trouble you’re trying to explain reality while denying reality at the same time. As mentioned you’re skeptical of science but believe in non-science/unreality like other realms and out-of-body experiences which do not exist.

I’m sure some of us arrogant humans like to think emotions, intelligence, etc are ‘beyond organic’ as you said but ofc you have no explanation of what it is. The fact is most complex creatures do experience most if not all of these emotions.

They are entirely based in our biology, get over it. There is no beyond or magical make-belief world, this is all there is and will ever be. And you’re wrong, scientists understand pain very well which is why they’ve developed drugs to deal with it. Now they’re able to disable certain nerve cells to block pain in different parts of the body.

So you understand cancer/terminal illness and letting people die, why is it any different for anyone else, say someone who experiences depression or just doesn’t want to live?

There’s nothing meaningful to come from death? Why should ‘meaning’ have any priority here? We are talking about ending pain/misery/suffering and death is the best way to permanent end all our problems. There is no afterlife so you can stop worrying about it, it’s nothing but silly myths from the Bronze Age.

no name 6/6/2020 - 2:16 pm

“Nobody has proved that ‘annihilation’” no one ever proved theres an afterlife but you still believe that which has not been proven. if i had to guess id say you also believe the world is flat.

also we do scientifically have an idea about emotions and pain from brain scans and what not. i think soda is right and youre living in the bronze age.

you should really try doing some unbiased research on this stuff.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 3:36 pm

Exactly theists are just selective about which unproven ideas they want to believe in. But they have an inverted view of reality, they are skeptical of science, which has mountains of evidence and based on observation, repeatability, testing, etc.

At the same time they take on word (faith) that Gods, demons, angels, heaven/hell, afterlife are as real as the ground they walk on. They are completely unskeptical, unquestioning of their own beliefs and yet no evidence that science produces, say on the Big Bang or Evolution is good enough for them.

Yes many such people believe the Earth is flat, and why not, they’ve been taught to believe that Science is evil and only trust their ancient book of desert fables written by long dead goat herders.

Jesus is nothing more than Santa Claus for adults. Stories are fine to teach little children about how to be good people, but to believe that nonsense into adulthood is delusion and insanity.

no name 6/6/2020 - 4:29 pm

they might have been taught that way but someone has to break the chain and realize its bs. speaking specifically of the obvious that has been proven by science

Soda 6/6/2020 - 5:08 pm

Yep usually only their kids can. Like my parents are the same, completely brainwashed by Christianity. I’ve had a thousand debates, but they continue to cling to their beliefs.

The key here is educating them in science when they’re young, then religions will die off very rapidly. It’s the first stories they hear as children that stay with them forever, unless they are smart enough to know they were lied to.

no name 6/6/2020 - 5:18 pm

there definitely needs to be a balance. its ok if you want to have religion to keep a moral compass but to believe in some of the things they try to convince everyone else is fact with no hard proof nor the knowledge to at least understand and explain it themselves is just complete asinine.

Soda 6/6/2020 - 7:48 pm

Indeed, ya I wouldn’t mind it if the religious just use it as a ‘guide’ the way some Buddhists do, but unfortunately most are not as laid back.

Ya in the end they worship a mystery they don’t understand or can justify or explain but they still think it’s the answer for humanity. That’s what happens when you combine arrogance, ignorance (of science) and stubbornness.

Still I’m going to keep countering their lunacy with science/reality. We can’t let them take over.

SP Administrator 6/6/2020 - 8:45 am

Sorry to see you go… be well.

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