“Accept what you cannot change.”
I definitely can’t change the past. So I have to accept that I’ve done so many unacceptable things.
And pretty much no matter what I do from this point on, I won’t be able to change people’s perceptions of me for doing those unacceptable things. I will always be a terrible person, and I have to accept that. I have to accept that I will always be alone, psychologically isolated from other people. That I will always have to hide the truth about myself in order to just keep existing in the world.
I obviously can’t change how old I am, or all the years I wasted. I have to accept that my misspent youth is never coming back, and the key formative experiences I missed are gone for good.
It’s a lot to accept, and I’m left with the feeling of not really wanting to exist like this anymore. It would probably devastate my family if I did end it. I don’t want that. But I also really don’t want to be this anymore. It’s just…sad. I’m not living for anything. I have no hope, no meaningful goals, no sense of purpose. I just want want it to stop. I’m so tired of regret, longing, and despair. It’s pointless, but it’s all I’m left with. I have nothing to actually live for. The only real reason I have to live is not messing up the lives of others who do have meaningful lives. My life has no value or meaning in itself.
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I’d argue that you can change how others see you, but it’s not easy. Also, the longer ago something happened, the less most people will care. I did some horrible things in my childhood, no one seems to care now 18 years into my adult life. I guess I do, but it doesn’t seem to effect others even if I tell them.
For most things you’d be right, but some acts just define your character in the eyes of others, no matter what you do afterwards. I also don’t have the excuse of childhood – the last time I really did something like that I was 29 – a fully responsible adult in everyone’s eyes. Although I’m glad I haven’t sunk back to that level in the 6 years since, that wouldn’t really make a difference to how others view me, and the only way I’m able to continue this half-life is by hiding the truth about myself.
That makes me so curious what you did. I’m just some random person on the internet so I’m sure you won’t say. Maybe what you did isn’t as awful as you think it is?
Maybe meet new people who don’t know whatever it is you did?
Have you become a better person since? Or rather just haven’t done whatever awful thing you used to do?
I won’t say, but it’s universally regarded as pretty awful. If anything, I’ve spent most of the last 15 years trying to convince myself it’s ok. But I can’t.
With the exception of a couple of therapists, no one knows what I’ve done. My issue is more having to hide who I really am from people, and the loneliness that causes, than being rejected by people who already know. It feels wrong to involve myself in the lives of others when I know they would feel deeply betrayed if the truth came out.
I wouldn’t really say “I’ve changed” since then. I still regularly think about going back to doing those things. It’s just now there’s some inhibition there where there wasn’t before, and I tend to channel it into stuff that’s less bad. I think I’ve just kind of learned that I can always feel worse about myself, which doesn’t make intuitive sense when you’re as low as I am. So from a selfish perspective it’s just not worth it.
I also forced myself into therapy after the last time I did it, which was pretty fucking brutal, and I don’t want to put myself through that again. Telling the most shameful shit on a weekly basis to someone who can’t make it ok is about the worst feeling I’ve had.
well, at least you have feelings of regret and remorse, so that’s good. do you want to be a better person? maybe if you started doing good deeds, it will help you wash some of the guilt off?
“My issue is more having to hide who I really am from people, and the loneliness that causes”
oh I definitely feel you on that. i haven’t done bad things to ppl, but i’ve always had to hide my depression and my health issues from everyone, hide that i’m not working, and pretend i’m normal and working 9-5 and happy-happy.
so yeah, i always felt so lonely not being able to tell ppl the real me. and i can’t bc the second you tell ppl you’re sick/injured/disabled/not working/depressed etc, ppl reject you and either ignore you or start becoming really mean to you. so yeah, very few ppl know the real me, and it’s indeed very f*ing lonely.
Being stuck in feelings of regret kind of sucks, and it’s not really worth much in terms of making a meaningful change. The difficulty with being a “better person” is that I know I’ll still be viewed/judged through the prism of my past, no matter what good deeds I do in future. I might be less bad, but I still won’t be acceptable. So it’s kind of demotivating. I’ve done various bits of charity and volunteer work in the past, but it didn’t really change anything. There’s not a point where I can say “I’ve done enough so I can feel ok with myself again.”
I’m sorry you’ve had to hide your depression/health issues and unemployment. I know from personal experience people can be very judgemental about that kind of stuff. I hope you can find some empathetic people to look past that and really see you. It seems a shame to feel so lonely over something most reasonable people would understand, if they only took the time.
“I hope you can find some empathetic people to look past that and really see you.”
Thank you. And it’s sad that I can’t. The only people I can talk to are other depressed or chronically ill people, and while it’s good to be able to talk to others like myself, I would still like to be able to make friends and connections with the rest of the 95% of the world. It’s hard when 95% of the people you meet won’t accept you, and the 5% that are like me, we never meet in person bc depressed and chronically ill ppl are generally not out and about.
Heck, even half the depressed and chronically ill ppl don’t like me either bc they’ve also been brainwashed into thinking we MUST think happy thoughts and if we don’t then it’s OUR fault and they don’t like to talk to “negative” ppl either.
Like WHY do ppl not allow us to FEEL the way we do? It’s a thought crime/punishment. People punish us bc we don’t think the way THEY think WE ought you, which is f*ing bullocks.
I’m getting punished for nothing I did, but for being depressed and thinking negatively. And for not “trying.”
And I don’t understand why even depressed ppl harp on me for that sh*t when they’re in the same boat as me.
That’s why I resonated with your posts bc you’re not the type to believe in “well if you only thought more positive…” “well your life is your fault if you’re so pessimistic.” I can’t even connect with half the depressed community bc they also turn the knives on me too. Like f*ckall, YOU try being happy and thinking positive when you’re sick and your health is failing and you have difficulty with the most basic things (like breathing, eating, walking, you know LIFE).
That makes me so angry, but what can I do about that? Not engage with the depressed / chronically ill community either? I mean that IS what I’ve done but that is super lonely. Who then can I talk to?
Other depressed ppl are trying to get better and they think if they’re around “negative” and really depressed people, that we’d drag them down, so they discard me too.
I am being punished for a thought crime- how dare I be so negative and depressing.
I have literally 0 friends bc of that, no “normal” friends and not even chronically ill / depressed friends (the chronically ill / depressed ppl talk to me a bit but either stop after a while or we talk every now and then and it’s also limited).
Anyhow, it kinda makes me feel like I SHOULD do something awful, if I’m going to be shunned by all of society anyway. Sadly, that’s not my personality bc I’m too damned nice and have too strong of a conscience. Like the happiest ppl DON’T have strong consciences, that’s how they’re able to go around being happy despite all the terrible stuff they’ve done or the terrible stuff going on in the world. People who are too emotional or care too much are the ones who are usually depressed af.
Anyhow, that’s my rant about humans. Humans are shitty. And not just ppl who actively do bad things. Most ppl may not do “egregious” things, but they’re not great either. Most ppl just don’t very much about being nice or helping others. They’re selfish. Most ppl don’t give af about others, unless they feel like you can be of use to them in some way.
Anyhow, I have way too many rants about ppl. And yes, I’ve come to a point where I hate most humans. For the way they treat me when I have done literally NOTHING wrong to them or to the world.
I think it’s very hard to resist the urge to try and fix people who are stuck in negative feelings. The idea that some people might be beyond help is kind of terrifying, and forces one to engage with the harshness of this world. And that’s too much for most to handle. We need to be able to tell ourselves that things will be ok, as long as we do everything right. Therefore, anyone who is not ok must have failed in some regard.
I’ve experienced it from both sides: talking about my own experiences, wanting others to really engage with how I’m feeling, but finding myself frustrated/alienated by the superficiality of their proposed solutions. And on the other hand: listening to the experiences of others, feeling the urge to offer what seem to be simple solutions, and frustrated by their unwillingness to try things.
Maybe it takes a great degree of wisdom and compassion to fully engage with the despair of others without being dragged down by it. I suppose that’s why therapists can charge such a high rate.
I tend to only post here when my despair overwhelms me. It’s where I put the feelings I don’t know how to live with. The rest of the time, I’m trying to some degree to hold back the tide, because I couldn’t function if I fully acknowledged it.
I do believe that a positive mindset can help to some degree, but… it’s very hard to maintain the benefits of that, within a depressed state. Any positive affirmations I may repeat to myself start to ring pretty hollow after a while. What matters is what you actually believe about reality, deep down, what you feel about it, and that’s not something you can consciously shape with just words.
I suppose to some extent, friendship is transactional, at least initially. Trying to wrap your mind around someone else’s pain is generally challenging and draining, so it’s a big ask. We can talk a bit if you’d like, but I’m not much good as a friend. I’m pretty boring, and will probably be unable to resist arguing about everything in an annoying manner.
I don’t feel justified in hating people, probably because I actually have done a lot wrong. That’s not to say that I don’t hate, but if I believe there are reasons that lead me to act the way I do, I have to extend the same logic to others. There’s reasons people are arseholes, that extend back beyond themselves. The fault is with creation itself.
“Any positive affirmations I may repeat to myself start to ring pretty hollow after a while. What matters is what you actually believe about reality, deep down, what you feel about it, and that’s not something you can consciously shape with just words.”
exactly! i also “finding myself frustrated/alienated by the superficiality of their proposed solutions.”
just saying fluffy nice words doesn’t do sh*t for me. i think deep down those people know it doesn’t work for them too, bc they keep saying all those things and “thinking positive” and they’re still depressed, and it terrifies them so they lash out at ppl who flat out tell them the reality of useless fluff words.
“I don’t feel justified in hating people, probably because I actually have done a lot wrong.”
oh i definitely feel justified in hating the human race. when all you’ve ever done was be super nice to people, not done any wrong, etc, and life and ppl constantly shit on you, time and again and again, yes, that makes me hate ppl.
now don’t get me wrong. if i meet a nice person, i don’t hate that individual. it’s the whole of the human race in general that i hate. the general human attitude, the general human behaviour, etc.
“Any positive affirmations I may repeat to myself start to ring pretty hollow after a while.”
so how do we genuinely believe those things? how do we get to that point?? that is the core.
It’s understandable to hate humanity if your primary experience has been abusive. I might ask: what would you expect from a species of jumped-up apes? It’s kind of amazing to me that people manage to be as caring towards each other as they are much of the time. But then again, my primary perspective is experiencing the dark side of my own nature, so I’m effectively looking up at the rest of humanity, flawed as they are. There’s very few people who I’d feel justified in looking down on, and even then, I assume they’re the way they are because of factors ultimately beyond their control.
In terms of deep beliefs, I think it probably depends what it is you find personally unacceptable about reality. Is whatever you’re telling yourself accurate? If so, is there any emotional room for coming to terms with it, or is it something you just can’t live with? I’ve heard from some people that certain mind-expanding drug experiences can help to shift perspectives, & help the user to accept what previously seemed terrifying or unacceptable. But I’ve been too scared to try that so far.
i’ve heard those who are generally happy or ok with their lives tend to have good trips, but ppl who are unhappy or have troubling things going on tend to have bad trips. idk if that’s true or not (have not looked too much into psychedelics, mainly bc idk how to get them), but if it is true, then no i wouldn’t want to have a bad trip that fcuks me up more. well who knows. at this point, can it be worse? i mean given my luck maybe -_-
i would like to try microdosing psilocybin. i’ve heard that helps ppl with depression. but idk how to get them.
well if you ever try any of that stuff, let us know.
I do not look down on other ppl. I may hate humans and humanity in general, bc humans tend to be selfish and shitty creatures, but looking down at ppl is another thing entirely. Actually, that’s another thing that bothers me. Most white collar professional ppl (that’s my background and all my peers) almost all look down at blue collar ppl, like garbage collectors, or ppl who fix toilets, or whoever else. like what makes you SO much above them? but ppl feel the need to look down on ppl to make them feel better about themselves. I don’t do that, maybe that’s why I feel so shitty about myself lol. I don’t pretend to be any better than anyone.
if i did that like most everyone else, i probably would feel better about myself.
“what would you expect from a species of jumped-up apes? It’s kind of amazing to me that people manage to be as caring towards each other as they are much of the time.”
much of that is fake. ppl are phony af and generally do “nice” stuff for other ppl ONLY bc they expect something in exchange or for appearances. very few who are actually genuinely nice and expect nothing back.
also, have you thought deeply about evolution? i have and it seems like the way our ancestors outsurvived other species and our other homo relatives (like homo habilis, etc) WAS bc of the fact that WE were MORE ruthless and MORE vicious than they were, and we massacred them. that is why our species, the homo sapiens, were the only homo species that survived. we killed them all.
so yeah, that’s where we came from. maybe asshole is in our genes and bloodlines. that’s something i’ve realized and come to terms with, which is why i’m depressed, bc knowing that about humans is depressing af.
ask yourself this: is it easier to be mean or selfish, or is it easier to always be nice and think of others?
for most ppl, they have to consciously TRY to be good or do good, bc their instinct IS to be selfish/greedy/etc.
And most are thinking, “if i do this or say that, i’ll look good” or “if i do this or say that, i’ll look bad” and they’ll adjust what they outwardly do or say, but internally, most humans aren’t very nice. that is the reality of it at the end of the day.
No, it’s not what *I* find unacceptable about reality. Other ppl are the ones that have problems accepting reality, and me telling truth about life/humanity/depression, that bothers them. Like the fact that ppl who have depression usually have it for many years, decades or the rest of their life, no matter how much you tell yourself to think positive, and deep down they KNOW it, but me saying it does not work bothers them, bc if it worked, wouldn’t THEY not be depressed anymore? The fact of the matter is that we’ll struggle with depression for the rest of our lives, and THEY can’t accept that, bc they know deep down that’s probably the reality. I’ve accepted that reality long ago. Most ppl who try to push “think positive and say nice words” have not come to terms with that yet.
Yeah, I’ve heard that too about bad trips, part of what makes me scared. I’ve also heard it’s generally advisable to have someone to guide you through that kind of experience, which I don’t think would be safe for me, given the secrets I might unknowingly let slip. Microdosing might be a good way to approach that stuff though.
I do think most people have some kind of conscience, and genuinely feel like they should help others at least occasionally. They just spend most of the time too busy with their own shit.
We may never know for sure, but I remember hearing something about the competitive advantage our ancestors had over other hominids being to do with greater communication/intermixing between different groups. I’m sure there were plenty of massacres that happened along the way, but I don’t know if there’s evidence of outright genocide. To some degree there was interbreeding – with Neanderthals & Denisovans.
I’d agree arsehole is in our genes, to some extent. But so is co-operation, a capacity for empathy & altruism, and everything else we value. Hopefully, the future environment we create will select for more of the latter than the former. Or possibly we’ll replace ourselves with all-loving machines.
I think I mean something different by “come to terms with” or accept reality. I don’t just mean accurately perceiving the facts of the matter – I mean being emotionally ok with that perception.
For example, I know by any moral standards, I’m a terrible person. That’s the reality I perceive. My emotional reaction to that is that it’s unacceptable, and I don’t know how to live with it. But perhaps if I had a significantly moving psychedelic experience, it might dissolve my sense of ego enough that I could let go of the need to see myself as morally good.
“I do think most people have some kind of conscience, and genuinely feel like they should help others at least occasionally. ”
Yes, I agree most ppl have SOME kind of conscience, and feel like they SHOULD help others *occasionally.*
There’s a difference in having a conscience and acting on it, and a difference in knowing they OUGHT to help vs actually helping.
This is just an example, there’s many examples in lifel But Take for example a friend of mine who has CP (cerebral palsy). Throughout her life, her CP makes her fall a lot, and NOBODY would ever help her when she falls- in public, in broad daylight. Many many times. People would just watch and no one would help. Same thing happened to me when I tripped and fell down very badly one time, and I couldn’t get up (I wasn’t able to walk for 1.5 years after that fall so yeah it was a pretty bad one). There were ppl around, I saw them see me, they saw I couldn’t get up, but did anyone get up and help me? A bit fat NO.
So do I think the human species is pretty lousy? And am I disappointed that the human race isn’t better? You bet I do.
You think it’d be instinct to help someone up if you see them fall and lying on the ground. That would be my instinct, which I guess is why I can’t understand why other ppl aren’t like this. We all judge ppl based on our own perspective and expectations. Bc I’m the type that would help without even thinking about it, from my perspective ppl who don’t, are lousy. Maybe that’s expecting too much from humans, but I don’t think it is. If someone falls down, the decent thing to do is to help them. If the avg human does not, then the avg human suck.
That sucks that no one helped you or your friend. I feel like most people where I live would probably help someone in that situation. I’m certain everyone in my extended family would. I think even I probably would, and I’m the worst person I know. I do think it’s most people’s natural instinct to help someone who falls. Possibly it’s an urban/rural difference? (don’t know if you live in a big city?) I think in big cities people are much more likely to keep their heads down and ignore everyone around them. I also think people are often uneasy around disability and unsure what’s going on with a person, so that might’ve impacted your friend. People learn not to get involved with anyone who seems unusual.
Lousy compared to what? Would chimpanzees or gorillas do better? Why would you expect humanity to be any better than it is? Whatever motivates you to act in the way you do just isn’t necessarily the same for everyone. They missed out on something you didn’t, be it genetic or environmental. Luck of the draw. Maybe the average human does kind of suck. But if you understand that it’s not coming from a place of deep malice, I don’t think it makes much sense to hate them. We’re animals – we’re the way the universe made us.
yes, i’ve always lived in a big city, and ppl in big cities rarely ever stop to help, not just me or my friend, but in general. there have been studies done about that too, and it is real.
i tripped and fell, i wasn’t visibly disabled before the fall, but nobody came to help even though a bunch of ppl saw me. that’s just how shitty humans are. i’ve always grown up in a big city and the way ppl are there have shaped how i view the world/ppl in general. maybe it is a skewed view of the world, or perhaps it is the more accurate picture of the human species.
it may not be deep malice, but more like indifference and uncaring/apathetic. as i said, i do not hate any individual i don’t know. i just have a general negative view of the human species as a whole.
for ex, i may find children generally annoying as a whole, but if any child were to talk to me or say hi, i don’t hate that kid. Same with adults.
i think you’re conflating my dislike for humans on a species level to hating each and every individual person. humans as a whole are destroying the planet, there’s a lot to humans as a species i do not like, but it does not mean i hate any and every individual person simply bc they are human.
I’m not sure big-city life is the most natural example of human behaviour. I think we’re more evolved for living in small, tightly-knit communities. If you know on some level that you might see a person again, it gives a subconscious incentive to provide help, so you’re on good terms with those around you. In a big city, people become anonymous. You don’t have social links to most of those around you, so you don’t know who’s hostile/dangerous. So people tend to keep their head down and keep to their own business.
It’s understandable to take a dim view of our species, to feel disappointed. But I think you’d have to have had an idealistic expectation of humanity to begin with (I know I used to have one.) There’s nothing in the natural world to suggest we should be any better than we are. All we have pushing us in that direction are the various moral creeds developed from millennia of trying to live with each other.
I don’t know, I suppose my question again would be: what other species are you comparing us to? Which other species do you prefer? The animal kingdom is full of brutality and suffering. Humanity may be depleting the natural world currently, but it’s not like it was a garden of peace and harmony before. Death & predation are everywhere. In my view, humanity is one of the few species capable of becoming self-aware enough to step back from that brutality. That so many of us fail in that regard should not render that potential worthless.
i never said big city life is representative- it’s just what i grew up with. and if you grew up with apathy all around you, then you have a certain viewpoint ingrained in you since a young age. despite that, i suppose i did used to have higher expectations for our species, and that did lead to disappointment as i got older and seen so many ways people have been cruel to each other.
perhaps it is wiser to compare humans to other animals- but that isn’t something the avg person does. we compare humans to other humans and perhaps, a higher standard. in that case, humans have been quite disappointing. i understand what you mean, if we compared humans to the rest of the animals and organisms in this world, we are far from terrible bc most humans, plants, and microbes are vicious. nature isn’t beautiful- it’s full of creatures ready to strike anything and anyone in it’s bid to survive.
regardless, i find humans as a whole disappointing. i also find many people in my personal life disappointing. actually that’s a better word for how i feel about humans. i don’t hate humans so much as i find us incredibly disappointing. hate is reserved for the shitty ppl in my life that have done me wrong.
I would say nature is both beautiful and horrific, depending on your perspective. I spend a fair amount of time walking in woodlands, and being surrounded by the life of the trees is beautiful & calming. But at the same time, all around you animals are struggling to survive, suffering and dying, mostly hidden from view.
I suppose I also found humanity somewhat disappointing when compared to the ideals I grew up with. But over time, I just got used to viewing that kind of behaviour as natural. And now I’m frequently surprised when I see people going out of their way to help others with no benefit to themselves.
I guess it’s those you’re exposed to in your personal life that are the most key to shaping your view of people. My family have gone above and beyond to try to help me long after they should’ve cut ties, so I’m sure that influences my feelings somewhat.
i used to think nature was beautiful too- until i watched some documentaries as of late about plants, trees, etc. ppl think they’re innocent things, but they’re vicious. it’s hard to explain unless you’ve watched some of those videos- and no not the normal nature documentaries bc i grew up on that stuff.
well that’s the thing- i grew up in an abusive non-loving environment. i barely had enough to eat, no heat, no chair to sit in, and got beat almost every other day as a child. so yes, that shaped me into who i am today. it’s not easy to view the world as awesome and lovely when life was never this way for me, which is why i resent people telling me how wonderful life is, if i just thought positively. yeah, life was good- for THEM.
even in your case, it’s great your family has stuck by to to try to help you, even if you done them wrong. so yes, that shapes how you view the world. if all you had was ppl shitting on you AND you have done nothing wrong, it affects how you view this planet and the people in it.
obviously it’s much nicer to go around thinking life is great, people are awesome, etc etc, but my reality is my reality. easy to someone else to tell me how to think and feel when they aren’t in my shoes living my life and experiencing the crap i’ve experienced. not saying you’re doing that but ppl in general do. they judge me and tell me life is all my fault bc i’m too negative and refuse to believe how nice people are and how wonderful life is and if i just thought positive life will suddenly and magically be great.