Hello,
I seriously think about killing myself quite frequently. However, I still haven’t done it. I hope that through this post I can discuss the rationality behind killing oneself. The following are a few facts/axioms which should be read before proceeding to the discussion:
Fact: Humans seek pleasure and avoid pain
Humans are biological organisms. Our genes tell us to obtain that which feels good, and avoid that which feels bad. This is a common trait of all animals and plants. We humans are the best creatures there are at securing pleasure and dodging pain. We can think! We can use our brains fight of predators in incredible ways and find food to survive and flourish. No other animals can manipulate their environments as successfully as humans do. Through intelligence we have become the masters of this planet.
Fact: My own death is inevitable.
As Benjamin Franklin once said, “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.” We are all going to die, and that is that.
Axiom: There is no afterlife. Death is void
Following from the second fact, I cannot prove that there is no afterlife. However, I believe that life is finite. This is an essential axiom to accept as true in order to continue this conversation. If one believes in the afterlife of let’s say..Christianity, then suicide may result in an eternal damnation to hell. Therefore there is good reason to not kill oneself. However, I reject the supernatural. There will be no punishment for killing myself. In fact, death is a void. I will not exist once I’m dead. Death is the absence of experience.
A beggar and a king will live very different lives, but will arrive at the same destination. Same with one who kills him/herself and one who does not. Both will end up at the same exact destination: death. Destination is the wrong word, because people arrive at destinations, but nobody experiences death. Nonetheless, it’s a good metaphor.
 (I can’t prove that I will die either, but many believe in an afterlife which is why I posited this as an axiom rather than a fact)
Discussion:
By studying the world through science and philosophy, I have arrived at the conclusion that life is pointless. There is no purpose to life. Life is just a bunch of atoms crashing into each other and exchanging energy. Life is chaos. Look at all the less intelligent life including your pets, plants, and wild animals… One can easily see that all life seeks to survive. But as a human I have come to understand that there is no reason to survive. No other animals or plants can understand that all their struggles and efforts will be fruitless. No other species of life understands that death awaits. Humans have become aware of death, and it’s been troubling us ever since. No matter how hard I try to survive, no matter how healthy I become, no matter how much pleasure I obtain, I will eventually die. This is the heart of the matter.
I have become apathetic towards life. I just don’t care about anything. There is no reason to do anything when every choice I make will leave me at the same result. To me, suicide seems like an excellent choice. However, I just can’t bring myself to do it. Sitting at the edge of a bridge just doesn’t bring me to jump. I wish someone would push me.
“Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.”
This quote is from a page linked to on the homepage of this website. It makes sense. I guess I don’t hurt enough to want to end my life (yet). And causing myself pain is out of the question. No matter how logical it is, I can’t bring myself to hurt myself. The only way I’ll escape this life is if life becomes too much to bear, or I get lucky and and die in an accident. I want to die, but I haven’t got the ability to do so. And it’s perplexing: I’m a strait-A student, healthy, attractive, smart..and I just have no will to live. This post isn’t a rash reaction to a bad situation; I’ve been puzzled by this topic for almost two years now.
Does anyone else feel this way, or is it just me?
11 comments
I came to the same conclusion a while ago. There is one thing that you are overlooking in your philosophical analysis, though. That is to consider the experiential value of life.
Whilst it is true that regardless of what happens to us during the time inbetween, we will die and once dead, that intervening time will be completely irrelevant, our experiences have value to us while we are alive.
What I mean is, you could kill yourself now, and you would not care about how the rest of your life would have turned out, but if you live on, your experiences will have value to you UNTIL you die.
Remember that life is an experiential journey. Objectively, there is no purpose and life is very much pointless, but from your SUBJECTIVE viewpoint, purpose can be found and your life can be meaningful to you.
Of course, that assumes that the life between now and your death is worth experiencing. Sometimes, like right now, I find it hard to believe.
Honestly, Truthseeker, your entire thread mirrors my exact thoughts. Solutions for a philosophical aversion to life do not come easy. I’m healthy, attractive, and intelligent as well, and I also see life as inherently pointless for the very reasons you described.
I am most certainly ready and willing to die, which is why I give you this advice: do not do anything that may result in being institutionalized. You have the right to decide your own fate, but if you allow someone else to determine it for you, nothing but despair and rage will be waiting for you. A peaceful death will no longer be an option because they will take it from you.
@Engie: A lot of your statements are true, and I appreciate you engaging TruthSeeker on an intellectual level.
“Meaning” however, is subjective in nature. There is no ultimate standard of what is and isn’t meaningful, and therefore the word itself is a fallacy. When people say “I find this meaningful”, what they really mean is, “I enjoy this a great deal”, or “this is enough to live for”. “Meaning”, as it’s come to be used, can’t objectively called meaningful unless it’s shared by the collective whole of the human race. I’m not saying that people don’t find things to live for, but I think we should stop using the word “meaningful” to describe life.
Semantics aside, the only thing I have I really have to say is that some people see your points, but arrive at different conclusions. While you have agreed with a lot of TruthSeeker’s ideas, you were ultimately able to be satisfied with living in the here and now. You find enjoyment one step at a time, where as not everyone is able to do that. For me personally, mortality invalidates everything, where as for you that’s not true.
I don’t disagree with your stance, and am not advocating everyone go kill themselves. I respect your decision to live.
By the way, Engie, I’m jealous of your lightsaber avatar.
@Letmesleep, “meaning” was exactly the word I intended to use in this context. Objectively, life has no meaning. But, meaning can be derived on a subjective level. You could discover that you are passionate about human rights and devote your life to fighting human rights abuses. That would be a subjective meaning you had found for your life.
Oh, lol. A lightsaber. Is that what it is? I’ve been wondering that since I signed up.
Eh, I think because meaning is subjective that the word contradicts itself. Removing the phrase “meaningful” from people’s vocabulary isn’t high on my priority list though, so we can just agree to disagree.
I used to be passionate about human rights and making the world a better place, in fact you could probably say I nurtured a messiah complex for most of my life. Somewhere in my head, even when I was religious, I realized that there were no real saviors and that if I didn’t protect people no one else would.
I wasn’t always an existential nihilist, but chronic suffering demands that you ask tougher questions about life. It was definitely a progression, and not something I arrived at overnight. Regardless, I’ll be the first to admit I’m a walking contradiction.
And no, I don’t think it’s really a lightsaber. It just reminded me of one; that or a laser gun 😛
@Engie
“…but if you live on, your experiences will have value to you UNTIL you die.”
Life could have meaning, but as long as I keep death on my mind, life is meaningless. As soon as I forget death, life becomes valuable. But finding purpose and being happy is only prolonging my death sentence. Death is inevitable, and once I finally die, it won’t matter how long I’ve lived. It’s essential to keep in mind the entire picture. If you concentrate on just living, then you overlook death as does every other species, and life is seen from a very different perspective.
I have tried to forget death, and I end up being happy for quite a while. But sooner or later death re-enters my mind, and I am consumed by apathy.
I think that every person here has a commonality: they have their own death on their mind. Most people aren’t thinking about their own death 24/7. They are thinking about their life. The people here are concentrating on death, and this has the consequences you see. Death has been a problem for humans ever since we were intelligent enough to realize that it is our own fate. Hence religion.
@Letmesleep
Thank-you for your advice. I wish I could talk with my friends and parents about this, but I am fearful of being put on meds, or worse, being institutionalized and put on meds. I think the internet is the best place for this conversation. I need to keep your advice in mind, thank-you again. Lately I’ve been becoming more open with my friends about topics like this (although not this exact one) and if they haven’t yet, they’ll begin getting worried soon.
Honestly, Truth, you can easily be put on meds without fear of being hospitalized. As long as you avoid discussing specific methods of suicide, doctors have no reason to fear you’re going to harm yourself. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but choose your words wisely.
I can’t predict your friends and family, only you know them, but depression is extremely common. I see no reason why they’d freak out and try to lock you up. Google a high rated psychiatrist in your area and just make an appointment. Depression is not grounds for hospitalization, but you can decide what you will and won’t say to him/her.
Honestly though, firearms can be merely kept for comfort. No one says you have to use a firearm just because you own one, but if your life ever spirals out of control you won’t ever have access again if you get locked up. I’d take care of that problem beforehand.
Good luck.
If I were American, I’d already be dead. Firearms are a lot harder to get in Australia.
@ TruthSeeker: if you seek for objective meaning for one’s life, until recently there was one; and depends on one’s estimate for human “sapiens” chances of survival in observable future, there still may be. It’s very simple: while every individual unevitably dies physically indeed, changes in mankind collective done by the person – remain. If during your life you manage to change mankind collective even a tiny bit towards becoming more efficient, resilient, hardy – and i talk survival of our species here, – then your life was meaningful. See, we humans are unique in our ability to shape matter and command energy. No other known species go kilometers down under water, kilometers down under land surface, kilometers up into the air and even into space; we, humans, do. In this regard we are unique creation on Earth, and it is logical to maintain our population above critically low number – in other words, it is logical for our species to survive. To this end, every individual life has a meaning as soon as the person did at least some few things to improve mankind collective knowledge and “zeitgeist” – if chances for mankind to survive through any observable future are indeed significant.
Problem is, those chaces are not significant; at the moment, i’d say our species’ chances to see year 2080 – are practically zero, and even year 2050 – are “very low”. See my own case on suicideproject, called “what for?”, for details, if you want.
So ironically, for reasons different than stated in your 1st message here, TruthSeeker, – i agree; there is no reason to keep going, and suicide is an excellent idea.
Now about having no willpower to jump from that bridge. This is our personal, very rational from evolution-of-species PoV, but completely irrational from your and mine personal PoV, thing. Luckily, we are intelligent creatures, and this oh-so-strong instinct of self-preservation is extremely very easy to circumvent. Here are some facts for you to consider:
1. due to limited speed of nerve signal transfer (which is based on chemical reactions in neurons) and some complexity of brain’s pain centers, our brain feels any pain good 50+ milliseconds after physical cause of pain was applied.
2. if our brain is mechanically destroyed in less than 50 milliseconds, the pain of it will never be felt: mechanically disconnected, brain cells are no more a structure which can develop any complex state, and “i am in pain” – or even half of it, “i am” – sense or thought – are complex states, requiring consiousness and many other things to be present.
3. assuming massive and hard enough object hitting human head has to travel only 10 centimeters inwards to cause nearly complete mechanical destruction of the brain (as a functional unit), and assuming the mass and/or speed of the object is enough to break the skull mehanically without losing most of its momentum to do so, let’s calculate the minimum speed of the massive object required to destroy human brain in under 50 milliseconds: 0.1m / 0.05s = 2m/s ~= 7 km/h. This means, any massive metal object dropped on one’s head at 7+ km/h – will cause painless death. Less massive or more easily deformable objects with proportionally higher speed will do the job just as painlessly, too.
4. gravity of Earth is excellent force to accelerate massive objects to speeds times higher than 7 km/h. For example, a piece of a good wide log weighing some 50 kg, lifted by one’s muscle force so some tree’s branch 5 meters above ground, when released, will touch down in 1 second under Earth’s gravity of ~10m/s*s, having exactly 10m/s ~= 36 km/h vertical velocity (speed) at the point of impact. Should this piece of log have to decelerate to a complete stop in a matter of less than 5 centimeters then (which would be required if we’d want human skull to stop this object without breaking), negative acceleration required for this would be 5m/0.05m = 100 times higher; since force = mass * acceleration, same force would be produced by 100 times higher mass while under normal -10m/s acceleration, – i.e. 5 tons of weight placed on top on one’s head. Since we definitely know that 5 tons of weight placed on top of human head are more than enough to crush the skull, we also definitely know that even this 50 kg piece of log, if it’d do direct hit on human head placed on firm enough based, – would do the same: crush the skull with no problem. Now, higher weight of the object as well as higher (than just 5m) initial lift height – both produce much faster than 50ms mechanical brain destruction, and are still easily achievable.
5. the instinct of self-preservation can only be activated if/when there is sensory input about some observed and/or understood danger. Should such sensory input and knowledge (certainty) be absent, self-preservation does not activate.
6. it is possible to set up deadly mechnical brain destruction which will take less than 50 milliseconds, and which will happen without any sensory output nor certain knowledge of the incoming event. Thus, it is doable to do suicide with self-preservation instinct never activating.
Tools needed are very basic, and the most primitive yet still reliable and testable device can be built in no time in any wood area.