I’ve posted here before (http://suicideproject.org/2013/04/failed-as-a-man/), and since, I’ve had a lot of time to think.
My situation has not changed, despite my efforts. Â Frustrated, I tried explaining how I felt and thought to my psychiatrist. Â As expected, he totally ignored my reasoning and started pushing anti-depressants again. Â Annoyed, I pushed back. Â I wanted him to recognize that my thought processes were valid – and if they he didn’t think they were valid, he should address them instead of just ignoring. Â He flat out said “I was not thinking correctly” and essentially dismissed my input entirely from the therapy.
Needless to say, I’ve since stopped seeing him.
I’ve tried visiting many other therapists to talk through my thought processes, but absolutely none are even willing to entertain the idea that a person could rationally consider suicide. Â It’s always dismissed as a sign of mental illness, and even defending your thought process risks getting you involuntarily committed, which completely ruins your life. Â It’s worse than the worst felony you could get on your record – employers would prefer to hire convicted felons over the mentally ill.
So, where am I at?
I can’t discuss the very logical reasons I feel suicidal. Â Society has decided that everyone should be forced to live, even if the circumstances of their life are such that they will never improve even if everyday is excruciating, unbearable pain.
18 comments
I think suicide is very often irrational, but on the basis that most judgments like that are founded on incredibly complex underlying, and often hidden, motivators. It’s never so cut-and-dry as a conscious thought process, despite appearances, and despite what one may wish were true, as that would greatly simplify problems like this. The logic of the human mind isn’t merely logic. There are hidden emotional and cognitive stressors that can skew one’s train of thought in a particular direction even despite the possibility of better ways of approaching a given problem. We’re creatures of habit for the same reason – brains have a tendency to learn how to do brain-stuff better as time goes on, which can potentially weave frescos of distorted pathways in thought. That ultimately leads to people viewing their circumstances in a way that excludes any potential for betterment, while cementing the notion that there is no alternative, both of which are almost never the case. With few exceptions, anyhow – physical pain and physical illness can cause similar thought processes, but physical problems have the potential to be much harder to change or escape. It’s probably safe to assume the thought process is at least near-rational in those cases.
Now, you mention the problems of getting involuntarily institutionalized and how that impacts employability later on… and you’ve got a damn good point. A lot of this stuff only serves to reinforce mental illness, and social instability in the very people these services exist to help (supposedly). If it’s a truism that not being completely honest with a doctor is the smart thing to do, that’s indicative of an systemic problem in the institution.
I think a “rational” decision to commit suicide is based on the perspective of the person. What one person may think is irrational may be rational for another person. Usually its based in what they believe in….Someone who thinks suicide is wrong won’t even accept the possibility that suicide can be rational. Its like trying to convince a vegetarian that eating meat is okay. They believe its wrong so they won’t even consider your points. I think its a choice that can be rational if the person doing it has solid reasons. Its all perspective. There may be other options that a person can take but if they feel its not worth enduring the hell they are in then its a choice they can consider. To be rational means to be reasonable. If the person considering suicide has reasons that they feel are reasonable….well….who are we to tell them it isn’t based off what WE feel is reasonable? Now don’t get me wrong there are reasons people have that may be unreasonable but again its all perspective because we are only on the outside looking in. We can’t know how a person feels. Its like looking at someone on fire. We know its painful but we will never know exactly how painful it is until it is us that is on fire.
Psychiatrist believe suicide is wrong period…..because they lose potential clients and income with each suicide so of course they won’t even consider your reasons period. When they give the sugar pills its just keeping the pharmaceutical wheel spinning. Its all business. It truly is a shame that a person has to watch what they say for fear of being committed…Its that reason why I refuse to go to a doctor because I can’t be honest with them and tell them how I really feel without risking being put in a nut house. At this point I’m pretty much at the end of the line. I don’t even care about getting better and I don’t have the motivation nor do I see the incentive to even try anymore. I’d rather press detonate on the bomb rather than wait for it to explode on its own.
Rationality isn’t a system of pie-in-the-sky beliefs, it’s got its own underlying rules governing which ideas can or cannot be attributed with the quality of “rational.” Generally speaking, suicide is something that a person comes to because of pain, be that psychic pain or physical pain, and pain has a subtle tendency to blind people to what’s going on, since the pain is very hard to factor out of the equation. As a result, a person who has a limb mangled might think there is no hope for medical help and try to remove his limb immediately, despite the existence of other possible courses of action which might better relieve the pain without causing unnecessary damage in the process. People never think clearly when their mind is full of an excess of any particular emotion, and that’s only one factor in what might distort a person’s decision-making. Cognitive biases are exceptionally hard to isolate and mitigate by oneself, since they are emotionally resonant ideas, and they tend to latch onto any thought-process which might hold relevance to them, which is a lot like going swimming in the ocean after attaching 20lb weights to either leg, then wondering why it’s so difficult to stay afloat.
That being said, the pharmaceutical and psychiatric field is ripe with all sorts of problems that make it harder for the doctors who actually do care about their patients, to do the right thing by their patients. It’s upsetting for everyone, and no less for the doctors caught in the middle of the bureaucracy. That doesn’t mean the system can’t help people who need it, but it does create the need for an unnecessary level of self-advocacy and careful thinking to avoid pitfalls.
I couldn’t agree more with lorax. I think it’s important to add though that having a control and possibly the power of dominating those irrational thought process, is not only a hard struggle with yourself (with your pride, with your intelligence – when possible) but a temporary gain, since depression will always strike back. So if you may have thought that the blame was on you for not being able to cut the irrational, i really don’t think it is.
I totally agree with you when you say that society demonizes suicide in the way that nobody is willing to discuss it as a reasonable option. It shouldn’t be so, because on the one hand everybody at first has the duty to recognize that somebody’s situation is unbearable (because we can’t know it); and on the other hand, just psicologically talking, if you don’t even contemplate it as an escape, it means that you’re not logically analizyng a possible treatment to pain. This being said, i have a significant personal expirience to share with you. I have been depressed for roughly 4 years, but without a precise or at least a solid motivation for it. I was dragged by that rational contempt towards the absurdity of living and the falsity of some sentiments like love itself (that depends so heavily on appearances). It was not a fashion, i was really depressed. I had logic by my side, and the philosophy of at least a millennium; i know it’s apparently different from your case, but the heart of it is not. On going abroad i lived a week of happiness, of just happiness, which still now it’s hard to explain. I figured there was more down there, that i’m not telling you, but the weeks later until know, i discovered so much delusions and so much things on my mind that haunted me back right when i returned home, that made me think. I insist, i really thought life wasn’t worth living, with all my heart. And now i have to accept that i was lying to myself.
The moral i drew is: if you honestly think about suicide, take some time to live your life out of your usual enviroment, and be extremely true to yourself. Extremely true: if you just for one day recognize that the situation changes, you have to back off, and see what’s more. Hope this helps, in one way or the other.
@benna: I had a similar experience following a total breakdown when I was a teenager – jumped in my car and just drove south-east as far as I could, wound up in some mountains, stranded, working day-labor and sleeping in my car. There must have been something in the mountain air, because I haven’t seen the world the same way since then. It’s funny how your perspective snaps back into an intense focus sometimes, and you realize how dumb you’ve been acting, how the things you’ve been doing don’t make any sense even though they seemed reasonable when you were doing them. Perspective can be a huge jumblefuck of confusion and it’s annoying sometimes. Those moments of pure clarity are the only reason our species hasn’t nuked itself off the face of the Earth, I think.
That’s why I said its perspective. You say “People never think clearly when their mind is full of an excess of any particular emotion, and that’s only one factor in what might distort a person’s decision-making” but ………pain isn’t an emotion…. you can’t say because a person feels pain that their judgement becomes irrational…..again that’s why I stated its perspective…..A person who suffers a mangled limb isn’t the same as suicide you can’t compare the two….removing the limb completely means further pain…suicide means the ending of the pain….two different things….now if you had said the person with the mangled limb killed themselves rather than wait for medical treatment and said that was irrational then I would be inclined to disagree because its all perspective. Yes medical treatment may be available but an excruciatingly painful injury may prove to be too much agony for the person to endure until the medical treatment is available….its like when you hit a deer and really fuck it up and you see its in really agonizing pain….you kill it to cease the pain….of course a veterinarian could bring it back to health but if the pain is too intense to endure why put it through that? Suicide can be rational its all perspective. You can’t tell a person from the outside looking in that their choice is irrational based on your perspective. That’s tantamount to a vegetarian telling a meat eater they are wrong….a little biased there don’t you think? Have you considered some people don’t want to take the options you find rational? they may just want to opt out.
Rational is defined as reasonable. What is a reasonable course of action to you may not be to the person that is experiencing it and even if it is they still can decide to made a different choice that they determine to be reasonable.
Emotional pain is an emotion. It’s got the word right there in the title. Physical pain is a different story, a lot of the time, because there exist a huge host of incurable, painful medical conditions that can’t be adequately treated, which leaves very little room for positive advancement or relief from the pain they cause. Emotional pain can be helped much more easily, in a lot of cases. In theory, anyhow. It’s often hard to figure out why someone’s emotional pain exists, or why it won’t go away. Usually, some outside insight and perspective is necessary. Which means a willingness to even try things that may be uncomfortable, because sometimes it is exceptionally uncomfortable to wrestle with the monsters of the mind. It’s just as uncomfortable to plot a course towards suicide and start down the path that leads to it, though.
No its not…..”emotional pain” is just used to describe the feeling resulting from negative emotions that doesn’t mean the pain itself is an emotion. I can be sad but the emotional pain that comes from being sad isn’t an emotion its an effect stemming from the cause of being sad…..its like when people are happy they may smile….is “smile” an emotion? no its just an effect stemming from the cause of being happy
Don’t forget to watch the SP movie pick for the weekend! 🙂
What is the pain in this sense, if not an emotion? Grating, turbulent anxiety with something rather like despair? For me it’s what I refer to as, “that persistent sense of imminent doom.” Trying to separate the idea of pain from the processes of emotional life results in negating the idea that either emotions or pain exist as anything but vague, empty words. You don’t pain when you’re said, but you might frown.
that’s not an emotion that’s a feeling….feelings and emotions are two different things. Pain is considered a feeling not an emotion. google emotions vs feelings….there is a difference…
@RT30 I will!
I don’t understand how feelings and emotions can be seen as two separate things. But even if that’s the case, it doesn’t mitigate the point I was raising, which is that emotions, and also I suppose feelings, can work to weigh one’s thinking along a set narrow band of trajectories, in exclusion of a whole host of other possible courses. Depression and anxiety both feed on themselves – they’re a candle burning at both ends, or an air temperature hot enough to cause area ignition in a forest. Without some effort to stop it and redirect the course, it can color a person’s perspective with a fatalistic filter, blinding them to any way of making things better than the filter suggests things are.
Okay I understand what you are trying to say…..that certain factors may alter a course of actions a person may take. My rebuttal to that is that any response to pain is founded in perspective. From a 3rd person point of view…you may think that they have a whole host of other possible courses….which may or may not be true…..However….what you are not taking into account is the amount of time and effort it will take to get out of the predicament and the level of difficulty of the predicaments people are in. We don’t have the 1st person experience to even determine if the course of action we think is viable is even viable. A raging inferno may look like its easy to put out by a regular citizen… “just use water”….but to a fireman who knows about them knows all fires can’t be put out with water.
if you want to die. First ask yourself who will swallow the pain you are enduring. I am still enduring my girlfriends pain after finding her body 2 years ago. I consider dying every morning. I have the equipment ready to roll but I just can’t spread that pain to everyone else. I must endure and live for the good moments, a laugh here, sports, music etc. seems so much easier to just take deaths road sometimes but what the hell, we will all take it one day anyway….
Analogies are fraught with peril.
Lorax is right – depression can blind you to potential solutions. However, it does not follow that because you are depressed, that you MUST be missing a solution.
For instance, I am very confident I’m that I’m not missing any potential solutions. I’m very smart, but I’m also dead serious with no sense of humor, I cannot stand physical contact, and I’m ugly as sin. Literally no woman would ever be romantically or sexually attracted me.
I didn’t just up and imagine these things about myself. It’s information I’ve collected from years of trial and error, dozens of rejections, friends being honest, and psychologists trying to lower what I should expect from life, (“Well, not everyone is going to find a girlfriend. Lots of guys are happy even if they never actually find someone.”)
At a certain point, you’re faced with two options – either accept the life you have ahead of you, as miserable as it might be, or kill yourself.
Frankly, the latter seems most logical.
“At a certain point, you’re faced with two options – either accept the life you have ahead of you, as miserable as it might be, or kill yourself.”
Have you read any nihilist literature? E. M. Cioran’s The Trouble With Being Born was reprinted recently.
Logically speaking your statement is a false dichotomy as someone could accept the life he/she has ahead of him/her AND kill himself/herself. There is no logical contradiction from both propositions being true.
To say killing yourself is a rational decision is true if you are merely stating you are not irrational for wanting to do so; however, there is no neat way to separate rational thinking from our emotions as both are intertwined when it comes to our decision-making. Are you crazy? Of course not. Does it make sense to add up your life in terms of a cost/benefit analysis and decide that killing yourself is your best option?
“At a certain point, you’re faced with two options – either accept the life you have ahead of you, as miserable as it might be, or kill yourself.”
jswissman is right. It’s entirely possible to both accept the miserable life ahead of you, /and/ kill yourself. In fact, choosing suicide is almost certainly /due/ to accepting /that/ the life ahead of you /will/ be miserable… or, at least, insufficient, in comparison to one’s minimum acceptable expectations, regardless of whether they are realistic.
The choice should be made after accepting things as they actually are, with a clear and realistic view of how they will most likely be; not before.
I don’t think whether it’s reasonable, or logical, or rational, or “the best option,” is even necessarily relevant.
it comes down to personal preference.
Will you, or will you not, continue in the face of what you expect?
It’s also quite possible to reject the most realistic expectations of the future, and continue living one’s life in denial. I think this is what most people choose. This is also probably why it’s so difficult to get through to certain people. They have their “blinders” on, and their brains have adapted to filtering out all unwanted avoidable information. “Deer in headlights.”