Ok you guys and girls, here is a post you can all argue your opinions on. I feel bad that so much arguing is being done on other people’s posts that aren’t even commenting back. lol I can only imagine the look on their faces when they see how off topic their own post have gotten in their absence.
Feel free to say anything you want here!
This should be interesting! π
140 comments
I will start..
The idea of opinions/interpretations that are subjective or objective is, in itself, subjective to opinion. ….does that make sense? Γ°ΕΈΛΒ³
“there are no facts only interpretations” – bat shit crazy guy….
Ahahahaha!!! lol
Thanks.. Now I look like an ass for laughing at dude! Γ°ΕΈΛΒ
It is an absolute truth, that an absolute truth exists.
The problem is that we are all absolutely unique, and hence, experience and interpret that truth differently.
Some of us interpret it far more accurately and precisely than others… and the irony is that it is we, those with the most accurate phanerons, who often experience the most resistance when expressing our best attempt at the most accurate and precise subjective interpretation of the objective absolute truth.
One must understand the value of being selfless, in order to minimize subjectivity and maximize objectivity. But in order to care enough to do such a thing, one must not be entirely selfless, because it takes some degree of ego and selfishness, in order to pursue anything so diligently.
It’s wrong to be only one or the other; it’s best to have appropriate amounts of both, but be dedicated to neither. The same is true for subjective/objective. Both are important in understanding the big picture.
Why do i try? I don’t know. Because i don’t know, is the reason. I’ve always wanted to know. I suppose it’s just part of who i am. If you don’t know something, you can’t do anything about it.
Perhaps it is tied to my frequent and relentless encounters with things i could not change. Maybe i thought “if i knew how to change this, i would.” But that was before i learned my internal methods for cost/benefit analysis. Some things just aren’t worth knowing, because you can’t change them, even if you know… and knowing them only proves that. I dislike discovering that i can’t change something that makes me unhappy… but i suppose, on some level, knowing i can’t, is better than wasting my finite time and energy, pursuing futile endeavors, believing i can… only to eventually be convinced otherwise, and come to realize i wasted my time.
I challenge anyone to prove The Undead Cucumber does not exist.
correction: if you don’t know something, you have a miniscule probability of accidentally doing the right thing… though not impossible, it’s implausible to accidentally do the right thing, in most cases.
@jswissman Its impossible to prove anything don’t exsist
@procel…. you beat me to it….I was fixing to say that very thing
i challenge anyone to prove that the absence of god, does not exist.
Procel wins by three minutes! What is your address so I can mail you your prize?
Haha sorry @pain Γ°ΕΈΛΒ @jswissman just send it to the undead cucumber Γ°ΕΈΛβ°
@clevername prove it does exsist
lol I can see where this discussion is headed
Prove it doesn’t Not exist!
“The proof is in the pudding”
There for god created pudding! Γ°ΕΈΛΒThank you!
it is impossible for anyone to prove that god is not absent. It’s also, ironically enough, impossible to prove that god /is/ absent.
Does being absent, require ‘being?’
If something simply does not exist, then can it be described as “absent?”
Does something have to exist, to be absent?
The only part of god that can be truthfully and accurately said to exist, is the idea of god. Beyond that, there is nothing.
There is no conclusive way to prove anything don’t exist. But ive already created three posts exsplaining what really exsists and what does not
Prove the universe either does or doesn’t have life in a galaxy a billion light years away….we can’t… because nobody has ever been there….can’t prove it….can’t disprove it
I think the real problem is that we don’t even need proof either way.
We just need the best effort at determining which is the most reasonably justified interpretation of what can be observed, and leave it open to change, should we ever happen to encounter new information that requires a different understanding.
@pain the fact we cannot disprove it kinda proves it no?
Some guy once said to me “If you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.” (This was after I told him I didn’t believe in traditional religion). I didn’t have a come back for him.
People seem to think it’s necessary to take a stand and believe in “something”. What’s wrong with believing in nothing?
Yeah, i disagree with that cliche.
Nothing is wrong with believing in nothing… unless you believe against what can be observed. Then you’re not just in a river in Egypt.
But there is a distinction to make, between “believing IN nothing,” and “lacking belief in anything.” But it gets pretty abstract, beyond that.
@Procel: The Undead Cucumber graciously accepts your gift.
@Pain: “Γ’β¬Β¦..look in the skyΓ’β¬Β¦the sun is thereΓ’β¬Β¦.thatΓ’β¬β’s not interpreting anything thatΓ’β¬β’s a fact is it not?” That is an observation. To call something a fact would require a claim or statement that the object is the sun.
As for Nietzsche, anyone can make an ad hominem attack against a dead person. It is another thing entirely to understand his epistemology and then provide a reasonable criticism of it.
I suggest reading a book by Walter Kaufmann about Nietzsche’s philosophy (or Arthur C. Danto has a good book too) and then write an essay and post it here so we can read it.
Hah, i could also flip it, and say:
“If you stand for anything, you’ll fall for nothing.” (because everything, even the cake, is a lie!)
Also:
IMO, absence of evidence can actually sufficiently and reasonably represent evidence of absence.
However, evidence of absence, is not absence of evidence.
And by excepting it the cutecumber proves its exsiatance. If you believe in nothing that is itself a beliefe ergo u can never believe in nothing for to believe in it is to believe in something be it the absence of something.
@procel not really…in order to disprove something you must have evidence disproving it ….for example…if I say “procel is a murderer”…. if I can’t disprove this does it make it true? How would somebody prove you haven’t murdered anybody?….now if I said “procel murdered that little girl who was found behind the dumpster at 8:05 pm tuesday”….All you would need to do to disprove that is provide evidence of your whereabouts from 7pm – 9pm….that is evidence that you couldn’t have done it….
@jswissman LOL dude are you serious!? no matter what we call the “sun” it is a FACT that it is there in space heating the earth….even if said object isn’t called “the sun” it is still that object in the sky which humanity has agreed to call “the sun”.
I also think you might need to learn the definition of “ad hominem” it is an attack on the person rather than the claim they are making….I believe I did address his claim therefore it is technically not an ad hominem since I did address his claim that “there are no facts only interpretations”….All humans including geniuses and philosophers alike are not exempt from making dumb statements….and I think that was a dumb statement based on the fact that facts exist ….2+2=4 that leaves no room for anything else because humanity has attached numerical value to each number …you could choose to interpret 2 as 5 but that would be a delusion on your part it wouldn’t invalidate a fact based solely on an individuals interpretation….
@clevername; As interesting as these philosophical discussions are, they don’t help me get laid or make money. I believe I’ll have another beer.
Remember that guy Donald Rumsfeld? He used to say “Just because we haven’t found WMD’s doesn’t mean they’re not there. Lack of evidence doesn’t mean they don’t exist.’
Listening to that guy speak drove me batshit crazy.
In theory i could never disprove u saying i was a murdered, there is always the possibility i repressed the act, unless observed every minute of every day by a camera there is no way to disprove it. Just for the record i have never killed anyone to the best of my knolage, i have planned it over and over but never acted. But the fact u can not prove it means the opposite to your belief is more likely until proven otherwise.
@nebulous these philosophical discussionss could get u laid, confuse em so much they shag u, gets them so drunk they shag u or they so impressed they shag u
@ Procel; I like how you think. Whaddya doing later?
@neb:
Exactly. And this is where my frustration comes from. The things i find interesting, never seem to lead to financial gains or sexual encounters.
And who could forget rummy?
That’s the same argument theists use, but i find it invalid.
Lacking evidence doesn’t have to mean there isn’t any… but it can indicate that.
But the opposite is not true. Evidence for absence, is evidence of absence, even if it’s not “proof.”
Being unable to observe the existence of a being or occurrence of an event, throughout countless repeated attempts, with all available instruments, does indeed indicate absence.
If we use everything available to us and still don’t find that a thing can be observed, then it is most likely that thing cannot be observed, because it does not exist or occur.
@neb, watching Rambo and drinking before colapsing into bed and going work the next day, u?
The reason things like the LHC exist, is because math, logic, reason, and hypotheses, predict that such instruments can allow us to observe something we otherwise cannot, such as the notorious “higgs boson” (which, so far, has been shown to exist, and is within reasonable deviation limits from what was predicted, but has not shown to be exactly as was expected, so far).
Did you guys know we’re also getting closer to discovering how to harness fusion power as a sustainable energy source? It’ll be a while yet, but i read an article and stayed at a holiday inn, so now i’m an expert.
@Procael; The same, minus the work & Rambo part. I’m thinking about walking to the pub and “getting all philosophical” with some local damsels. This “boring them into bed” strategy is one I haven’t tried yet. Let’s see how this works out.
er, I meant Procel. Sorry about that.
The local pub is a good place to start, refine the technique, remember to be so boring they want to shut u up but nit so boring they fall asleep, cause it turns out its not actually consensual if they are asleep
@clevername; I hear you. Do you ever feel like you should be doing something more productive with your time? I do. “Effective Time Management”. How are my actions right now propelling me forward towards a tangible, beneficial outcome?
I guess killing brain cells and frequenting a suicide site isn’t as bad as it can get, right?
@Procel; What if they fall asleep after they consent?
@Pain: You can’t even distinguish an object from a statement about an object. Please find an introductory book on critical reasoning; it will help you a lot.
@neb well if they fall asleep after that ur doing something wrong Γ°ΕΈΛΒ
Greetings, munchkins. I’m sure you’ll all be pleased to hear that I have gotten out of my rocking chair and dusted off my stilettos and am now busbound for a night on the town. I’m going to see a movie about car racing (Rush), and then go for fajitas and drinks at the bar later.
Films, good food, and alcohol are some of the best distractions. It’d be an even better distraction if I had someone to share it with…
Nebulous, it’s really such a pity you’re not in my town.
@neb: yep. I almost always feel that way, but due to my personal circumstances, as well as circumstances that don’t only affect me, i can rarely satisfy that urge. Usually what happens is i get super serious, forget about games and bitches, and start seeking the information i need, to convert my time into material wealth… but then, due to that process being so relentlessly taxing, i burn out before i can get anywhere.
Like i’ve said so many times: i lack access to the needed methods of advancement, while also being trapped in a disruptive environment that causes further obstruction.
I go through cycles where all i care about is scheming and plotting and aggressively pursuing the construction of methods which are capable of producing my wants and needs… but then i burn out and break down and take a while to recover. It’s during that recovery phase where i am most despondent and hopeless, and want to just die. It’s during that time, when i have more abstract and/or metaphysical fantasies, and sort of catapult my consciousness to its own edges, and experience an often rewarding sense of utter detachment, and an attraction to the concept of oblivion. How wonderful it would be, to simply not exist, and have zero requirements to fulfill zero urges, and not have to worry, or think, or feel, anything at all, ever again; to no longer care about my missed opportunities and squandered potential, or any suffering that may yet ensue.
But eventually, i get angry again (megadeth!), about the idea that i am still required to face death, without ever really having lived… which i still cannot do, while lacking access to what i need, to enable acquisition and experience of what i want. Without getting what i want, or even a chance to turn effort into gains… there is no reason to continue suffering a ruined life.
@Procel; I was just kidding. Usually the TV is on during sex. That helps keep my partner awake.
@Persephone; Don’t read what I just wrote to Procel. Your night out on the town sounds great, best wishes and good luck! (Only at the lesbian bar). π
@Jswissman dude….what are you talking about? we were talking about if facts exist you quoted a nutjob saying they don’t and I called the nutjob a nutjob for saying that….I’m sorry if you’re offended at that but some things are just bullshit and need to be labeled as such….objects and statements about objects have nothing to do with the fact that facts exist…..what you are doing is called a “straw man tactic”
@Nebulous (saw your comment in moderation)
I’m only allowed to go to the lesbian bar? Since when have you started putting restrictions on me? I thought we agreed we weren’t going to be exclusive. Thousands of miles away and already you’re cramping my style. Jeesh. Looks like it’s time for me to rethink this whole flirting with strangers on the Internet thing.
P.S. I’m just kidding. You know I’ll do anything for you. Even turn lesbo.
What makes a random comment go into moderation? I understand certain buzzwords on the watchlist will trigger this, but other times a seemingly innocuous comment gets redirected to no-mans-land.
@neb: you said the forbidden p-word.
@Persephone; hehehe. Just kidding, I would never dream of cramping your style. In all sincerity, I wish you the best. To keep it fair, I’ll only target women as well if I wind up walking to the pub to try and bore them silly with philosophy.
@Clevername: Aha! You’re right. But the p-word means so much more than “suicidal companionship”. Oh well.
@Pain: ROTFL
Seriously, how many years have you studied Western Analytical Philosophy? I’ll throw my cards on the table though I don’t normally bother with giving my background: I have a BA and an MA in Philosophy and taught symbolic logic, aesthetics and the history of philosophy. I’m done bullshitting with you on this.
“Straw man tactics?” Really, give me a break. How many years have you studied the Philosophy of Science? Obviously, I tried to explain to you your misuse of the word “fact,” which has nothing to do with Nietzsche who you haven’t even read.
Calling Nietzsche a “nutjob” (which btw, since you like lingo, is an ad hominem attack, not an argument) doesn’t address his epistemology (“theory of knowledge”) which I assure you is studied throughout the world by scholars who don’t give a rat’s ass about whether Nietzsche went insane toward the end of his life. If you haven’t read Nietzsche or even a secondary source, then you have no idea what you are talking about. Given my own background in philosophy, I knew that right away.
And the idea that I’m offended…all I can say to that is just because you say something doesn’t make it true. Believe what you want in your world and be at peace. Just don’t come at me aggressively like you know shit about philosophy unless you want me to actually take my gloves off.
PS I laughing the entire time I write this. Get a grip. Not everyone who reads your comments gets offended when they come back at you. I think you’re just posturing because you’re insecure. Are you in your early 20s?
@Nebulous
I’ve been walking around the mall wearing sunglasses pretending I’m a famous actress because I’m just a dick like that. Now I’m trying on leather pants + leather jacket. I look rather smokin’ in these if I may say so myself. In proper form to join you for a ride on that Ducati.
Leather pants & leather jacket? Does the store you’re in sell handcuffs and whips too?
There’s a visual.
Nevermind.
Uh….where was I? Oh yeah. You don’t need all that gear to ride a Ducati. It won’t hurt but it’s not necessary. Just buy me a Duc and I’ll take you for a ride regardless of what you’re wearing. A motorcycle is the 2nd best thing you can put between your legs, so they say.
@jswissman…. wise guy eh? oh excuse me I didn’t realize your degrees make everything you say rooted in fact and truth….it obviously supersedes anything I’ve said so far because a degree automatically makes you correct ….I never claimed to study “philosophy of science” so that’s irrelevant however I do have basic common sense which you don’t need a degree for dude.
Also you claim I used the word “fact” incorrectly but amazingly the definition of the word “fact” seems to coincide with the way I used it….
FACT:
a thing that is indisputably the case.
used in discussing the significance of something that is the case.
a piece of information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
the truth about events as opposed to interpretation.
So explain to me how YOUR definition of the word fact supersedes the dictionary version?
Again you don’t know what the definition of “ad hominem” is….it is an attack on the person rather than the argument….and I didn’t pull it out of my ass that he was considered “cuu cuu for coo coo puffs” that was mentioned when I googled his name. I also addressed his statement….In order for me calling him a “nut job” to be considered an ad hominem I would have had to ignore what he said and directly attack him which I did not do….are we clear Mr. degree holder? I wasn’t talking about his epistemology I was talking about a specific statement that he made….I don’t have to study anything he wrote in order to draw the simple conclusion that facts exists and there are facts….I don’t care if you were an award winning mathematician if you tell me 2+2=1839759849857 I’m going to call bullshit despite whatever you have accomplished ….
Obviously you are offended because it seems you consider the nut job as some hero or deity. I never claimed to be an expert in philosophy I simply addressed a dumbass statement that he made …If you feel we are interpreting it wrong you are welcome to elaborate and make it clear what he meant or direct me to a soucre that explains it but from reading that statement I call bullshit….
I never said everyone got offended but when you resort to strawman tactics thats the only conclusion I can draw…and yes I am but what does my age have to do with this debate? nothing dude…
@jswissman don’t boast on your knowledge. philosophers don’t know a thing even though they analyse everything to its root. u surely know that limitation, don’t you? so ur suggesting a layman to first read books is not a good argument.
@quaero: I wasn’t boasting. I’m tired of arguing with a butthurt child.
@Nebulous Right. I’ll get on that for your next birthday. I like your way of thinking…
I’m going to get a frozen yogurt now. You can join me in spirit.
lol now I’m butt hurt….dude reread this thread….you don’t detect a bit of anger, hostility, frustration or irritability from me….You’re the one that got upset because I called the guy a nutjob which he was I mean you’re acting like I lied on him and made that up but okay whatever… I wasn’t arguing about anything I just addressed an ill statement from a nutjob that’s all…..if you got offended that’s on you
…especially one who fronts that everyone who comes back at him “must be offended.” This is a pathetic tactic used to get others to back down I’m sorry to say. It is the juvenile equivalent of someone calling people “anti-Semitic” every time another person offers a critique of Israeli foreign policy.
@Pain: And no I did not waste a second of my time reading your response. Feel free to rant away so you can pump up the self-esteem you appear to be sorely lacking.
@ Persephone; Right on. Have a wonderful evening.
I might go outside and let the cat pester me.
Any sort of chocolate fro-yo, you can’t go wrong.
I don’t recall saying everyone who comes back at me Γ’β¬Εmust be offended.Γ’β¬Β…that’s just what I detected from you based on your choice of words…IDC if you read it or not someone will and they will be able to determine if what I said was true or false… I have no need to rant I’ve proven my point that his statement was false already dude
You don’t even know what his statement means–that’s what is so f*cking funny. But I’m glad you feel you’ve proven your point. Good for you. Here’s a pat on the back. *pat pat pat* I think you really need one.
60 comments to “The Bicker Post”. Kinda makes me wonder what people get out of visiting this site.
@Nebulous I went with key lime pie. There’s actually a funny story regarding this flavour – on the old forum I was involved with years ago, some juvenile once started this thread that had to do with, er, self-satisfaction. Obviously that was considered inappropriate, and so before it was delated, some mod with a sense of humour came along and changed all the references to say ‘key lime pie.’ I thought it was hilarious. Now whenever I enjoy key lime pie flavours that is what I am reminded of. Ahahaha.
you know…..that’s the same argument religious folk use when people attack the bible….”you don’t understand”….lol obviously I can’t read and interpret words….but you’re correct I don’t know what it means seeing as how it came from a bat shit crazy insane mind it could mean anything forget the set definitions and meanings of words altogether once sanity is out the window….
“there are no facts only interpretations….”
I just find it even more funny that this definition was under the word fact:
“the truth about events as opposed to interpretation.”
@Persephone; That is funny. There’s a restaurant near me that offers free pie on Tuesdays. Free Pie. Who can say no to that? I try to dine there every Tuesday.
@Nebulous Nice. I wouldn’t be able to resist that either. Have you ever seen the show Pushing Daisies? It’s about a man who can bring people back to the dead for about a minute, so he uses this skill to solve crimes by asking the victim who did them in. He is also a piemaker, and owns this quaint little eatery called ‘The Pie Hole.’ Lots of interesting storylines and weird deaths in these episodes. It’s colorful and quirky and wonderfully written for the most part. There are some delightful female characters, as well. It was tragically short-lived, because not enough people discovered it or something. The TV Writer’s Strike of 2007 also dealt it an unfortunate blow from which it never recovered.
*back from the dead
@Pain: Why do you continue to make up utter nonsense? His mental breakdown came at the very end of his life. You sound like a child. I get that you are someone who always needs to be right. I’m no shrink, but you display signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
@Nebulous: The reason people don’t come here is because when they unload in what they think is a safe place looking for empathy someone like Clevername immediately deconstructs all of their statements with a clinical precision the person is totally unprepared for.
This thread was specifically created so a couple of non-newbies could discuss a non-suicide topic. If you don’t like it, why not take your discussion elsewhere instead of complaining? Insinuating that the comments here are part of the reason this forum is unpopular doesn’t hold water.
Sorry about the moderations! π
I see I missed a lot.
I say let the site be as it is, the comments come and go as they will. Posters have the right and power to edit and delete comments and posts.. Maybe we should be focusing on spreading the word so they stop their bitching about what the site is intended for. I may comment a bit harshly at times but it’s not like my comments and opinion can’t be deleted. The fact that they aren’t most times shows the need for confrontation on this site, from the “weak” and the “less weak” lol
@jswissman you just don’t quit do you…. actually there have been quite a few times where other users have told me I was wrong about something and when they told me how I realized it and retracted my statements or whatever point I was trying to make….and I’m not making anything up if you think I am I actually will go and post the links so that you can see them for yourself….BTW what you just did was an ad hominem ….you ignored my reasoning for dismissing his claim and say I sound like a child and display signs of a personality disorder….. It’s funny because I haven’t made one attack on your character this whole time yet you continue to do that very thing towards me….and you wonder why I concluded you were offended….
Fuck the bullshit..I’m taking sides! lol
I’m with Pain!! hehe
@Persephone; The Pie Hole? Sounds delightful. If I had known of that show I would’ve watched it. Sadly, I never delved in.
I’m listening to music now. Remember My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult? They’re pretty obscure, I’m sort of jumping around.
I’m sorry.. Your comment must be in the form of an argument!
A couple excerpts from the link at the bottom:
“While Nietzsche’s fuse burned out on 3 January 1889, it is unclear when the fuse was lit. We understand that Nietzsche was always eccentric, always a little odd and crazy.”
“if madness means “the condition of lacking restraint or reason,” this definition seems to apply to Nietzsche because for a considerable time he showed no restraint in his writing and rejected reason”
http: // www. bu. edu /paideia/existenz/ volumes/Vol.3-1Khazaee. html
@Pain: It is not a matter of ignoring your reasoning so much as not seeing any. All I see is someone screaming I am right about a topic he has no knowledge of.
It reminds me of Apocalypse Now when the colonel asks Captain Willard what he thinks of his methods. Willard responds, “I don’t see any method here at all, sir.” (maybe not the precise quote).
Oh and to borrow one of your own tactics, “Hey dude if you feel attacked by my comments that’s on you. No hard feelings, dude.” Or something like that, right?
@RT30: Bombs away anytime of this thread.
Shit! Have to grammar nazi myself: “on”
@jswissman….. dude we were never discussing a “topic” to begin with….we were discussing a quote and whether it was true or not….I never claimed to have knowledge of philosophy again another strawman tactic…..you saying because I have no knowledge of philosophy I can’t read a quote and determine if it makes any sense….thats not true….A little kid can know 2+2=4 without having any knowledge of anything other than basic arithmetic dude….
and no there is a difference between my comments and yours I never attacked you or showed any signs of hostility in fact I’ve be calm this whole time….you on the other hand have thrown several side comments in about me that have nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing …. If what you were asserting to be true was actually true? you would have broken it down many comments ago instead of trying to defend the nutjob ….you have never stated why his statement is true you’ve just ranted on about your degrees and other stuff ….I’ve already proven why it makes no sense
“All observation is theory-laden.”
“Thomas Kuhn, Norwood Hanson, Paul Feyerabend, and others cast suspicion on the objectivity of observational evidence by challenging the assumption that observers can shield it from biases imposed by their Γ’β¬ΕparadigmΓ’β¬Β and theoretical commitments. Even though some of the examples they use to present their case feature equipment generated evidence, they tend to talk about observation as a perceptual process. As Hanson (1958,19) put it, Γ’β¬Λseeing is a Γ’β¬Εtheory ladenΓ’β¬Β undertaking.Γ’β¬β’”
http:// plato.stanford.edu/ entries/ science-theory-observation/
http:// http://www.amazon.com/ The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/ dp/ 0226458083
Hey way to go RT30…pfft.
My bad I thought you had put my comment under moderation. Apologies RT30.
Sorry..I was in the shower you priss!!
You guys had all the fun without me π
Where you been?
@pain: You are going to back peddle on the line that we were discussing a quote? I can go back and copy & paste to show that’s false.
Here is another one to sink your teeth into:
Γ’β¬ΕAll observation is theory-laden.Γ’β¬Β
Γ’β¬ΕThomas Kuhn, Norwood Hanson, Paul Feyerabend, and others cast suspicion on the objectivity of observational evidence by challenging the assumption that observers can shield it from biases imposed by their Γ’β¬ΕparadigmΓ’β¬Β and theoretical commitments. Even though some of the examples they use to present their case feature equipment generated evidence, they tend to talk about observation as a perceptual process. As Hanson (1958,19) put it, Γ’β¬Λseeing is a Γ’β¬Εtheory ladenΓ’β¬Β undertaking.Γ’β¬β’Γ’β¬Β
http:// plato.stanford.edu/ entries/ science-theory-observation/
http:// http:// http://www.amazon.com/ The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/ dp/ 0226458083
(There is a duplicate comment awaiting moderation as I forgot to put a space in one of the references.)
@pain: You are going to back peddle on the line that we were discussing a quote? I can go back and copy & paste to show thatΓ’β¬β’s false.
Here is another one to sink your teeth into:
Γ’β¬ΕAll observation is theory-laden.Γ’β¬Β
Γ’β¬ΕThomas Kuhn, Norwood Hanson, Paul Feyerabend, and others cast suspicion on the objectivity of observational evidence by challenging the assumption that observers can shield it from biases imposed by their Γ’β¬ΕparadigmΓ’β¬Β and theoretical commitments. Even though some of the examples they use to present their case feature equipment generated evidence, they tend to talk about observation as a perceptual process. As Hanson (1958,19) put it, Γ’β¬Λseeing is a Γ’β¬Εtheory ladenΓ’β¬Β undertaking.Γ’β¬β’Γ’β¬Β
http:// plato.stanford.edu/ entries/ science-theory-observation/
http:// http:// http:// http://www.amazon.com/ The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/ dp/ 0226458083
(There is a duplicate comment awaiting moderation as I forgot to put a space in one of the references.)
@pain: You are going to back peddle on the line that we were discussing a quote? I can go back and copy & paste to show thatΓ’β¬β’s false.
Here is another one to sink your teeth into:
Γ’β¬ΕAll observation is theory-laden.Γ’β¬Β
Γ’β¬ΕThomas Kuhn, Norwood Hanson, Paul Feyerabend, and others cast suspicion on the objectivity of observational evidence by challenging the assumption that observers can shield it from biases imposed by their Γ’β¬ΕparadigmΓ’β¬Β and theoretical commitments. Even though some of the examples they use to present their case feature equipment generated evidence, they tend to talk about observation as a perceptual process. As Hanson (1958,19) put it, Γ’β¬Λseeing is a Γ’β¬Εtheory ladenΓ’β¬Β undertaking.Γ’β¬β’Γ’β¬Β
http:// plato.stanford.edu/ entries/ science-theory-observation/
I was waiting to get a ride home, then I got stuck in traffic. I have a tendency to miss all the fun, dang. Ha, it’s fine, I love reading what you guys say, you articulate nerds π I’ll be popping in and out if anything really strikes a chord with me
Just so you know, you might get that a lot cuz I have to go pick up my lady right now. So if you don’t want to get stuck in moderation you should tone it down till I get home. lol I’m not sure whats causing it but I have no control when I’m not around! π
@RT Can you blow away the dupe posts? Yeah I screwed up and they were awaiting moderation. Since I have no idea how long that process stakes, I tried reposting. If not no big deal.
*takes I love it! “stakes”
That’s why I only grammar nazi myself. If I do it to others, Muphry’s Law immediately kicks in.
Yes please copy and paste it because we weren’t discussing a topic we were discussing a quote….furthermore the way I view it, Nietszche was saying that things can only be as factual as our perception of them. We only truly see the world from our own perspective….however that doesn’t mean facts don’t exist…..humans cannot naturally fly is not something to be left to interpretation…..that is a fact no matter what your perception is…..no matter what you copy and paste it is not true…
“there are no facts,only interpretations” is a nonsensical false statement dude
My initial post:
Γ’β¬ΕThere are no facts, only interpretations.Γ’β¬Β Nietzsche
Within philosophy, the most commonly accepted theories of truth are not rooted in an objective-subjective dichotomy. http:// en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Truth
Also within the Philosophy of Science, many argue that all observation is theory-laden or all facts require interpretations. So the idea that Γ’β¬Εthey are just interpretations of those facts, they are opinions and nothing moreΓ’β¬Β would not distinguish a claim that was considered to be factual from one that was not.
Your first response:
The sun isnΓ’β¬β’t hot folks Γ’β¬Β¦.thatΓ’β¬β’s an opinionΓ’β¬Β¦..water isnΓ’β¬β’t H2O Γ’β¬Β¦.thatΓ’β¬β’s an Γ’β¬ΕinterpretationΓ’β¬Β not a fact peopleΓ’β¬Β¦.. We donΓ’β¬β’t need oxygen to breathe Γ’β¬Β¦.thatΓ’β¬β’s an opinion tooΓ’β¬Β¦.
Then later you mentioned Nietzsche was crazy.
If you take the statement in the context in which Nietzsche was using it, you would not draw the conclusion that it is a “nonsensical false” statement. BTW a statement, logically speaking, cannot both be nonsensical and false as a nonsensical statement cannot have a truth value (true or false) assigned to it.
Nietzsche applied this idea to ethics in Beyond Good and Evil by stating: “There are no moral phenomena at all, but only moral interpretations of phenomena.”
“Against that positivism which stops before phenomena, saying “there are only facts,” I should say: no, it is precisely facts that do not exist, only interpretations”. Notebooks, (Summer 1886 Γ’β¬β Fall 1887). It seems the ages old debate realism versus antirealism. Γ’β¬β Ricardo Jun 20 at 12:15
http: // philosophy.stackexchange.com / questions / 7303 / there-are-no-facts-only-interpretations
Okay I’m outta here. Getting on the floor to play with my daughter. Have fun kids!
There goes a man of conviction! lol my hat off to the both of you! hehe
@jswissman…My comment was a reply to your quote not any other crap you said….
also that’s false facts do not need interpretation to remain facts…now if it had said all facts require observation I’d be more open to agreeing with that but even that is false because some facts we can’t actually observe….Facts don’t need anything to be facts except whatever makes it a fact….
and BTW yes it can be both nonsense and false….nonsensical means it makes no sense….are you saying something can’t be false while making no sense at all?….
I have bunny ears…. that is a nonsensical false statement because it makes no sense why I would say such an outlandish thing while at the same time being false….
I don’t care about you quoting more of his nonsense it is still false….
I’m starting to think you don’t even understand what he really meant because you have only copied and pasted things you would think with your fancy degrees and all that you would be able to break it down in laymans terms….guess not…..
This is the pseudo-mysticism i often reference, for which i hold significant contempt. I don’t think i can adequately articulate what i really want to say about it… but it’s one of the most frustrating and common sources of obfuscation in this world.
We can either accept that things are as they are, or we can go around pretending and insisting otherwise; the latter of which seems like a profane and deplorable waste of time.
If things are so wrong in this world, that so many people have little choice but to resort to pretending things are fine, and clinging to outrageous fairytales… then shouldn’t we be striving to most accurately understand the source that is causing these ill-effects, so that we may then attempt to solve them?
There is far too much crap between the useful bits of information, and far too much misinformation masquerading as “fact.”
There is too much BS leading people in wrong directions, often into artificial and unnecessary conflict with each other… and much of it is intentional, useful to TPTB as a distraction to keep the commoners occupied, so that they can’t figure out what’s really happening, and then unite against it.
Hmm… pseudo-mysticism is the wrong term. I’m not sure what to call it.
@Pain
PS Nice attempt at a cheap shot: I’m more than capable of putting any ideas into layman’s terms. Anyone can read the thread and see that. Really nice research on your part.
In addition to Western Analytical Philosophy, are there other disciplines you pretend to know something about (e.g. Quantum theory)?
You deserve an award for the sloppiest shit-talker I have ever had the pleasure to meet on SP. I’ve went toe-to-toe with some shit-talkers on Facebook and other forums, but you sir are truly the King of the Shit here on SP. (By the way, this is a personal observation not an ad hominem attack so don’t take it personally, dude.)
@jswissman…..dude… you haven’t done that at all….you’ve only copied and pasted things…..furthermore I didn’t copy and paste anything as research I did it to prove he was crazy….
I’ve stated multiple times I don’t have any in depth knowledge about that yet you continue to say that as if I proclaimed to be an expert…
I’ve talked no shit, I’ve made no insults and I’ve stayed on topic through out this thread….However your personal feelings aren’t my concern….keyword being “personal” so that’s your issue not mine…. I don’t do the back and forth insulting thing because you can see I have still yet to say a single derogatory thing about you but it is apparent that you cannot have a discussion without getting emotional, offended and resorting to insults and personal attacks. I would think that with your degrees this wouldn’t be your behavior but I was wrong.
Blah blah blah…I only copied and pasted things. So making a blatant misrepresentation of what I’ve done isn’t an insult? Again, you are full of shit. I’ll go so far as to call that a fact.
Oh I forgot that you “proved” he was crazy. I’m curious if you really believe that or you are just a troll?
Nice speech on how your manners are above reproach. Kudos to you.
Have you ever gone back and read what you write? You repeat the same exact rhetoric over and over again: “Dude, that’s your problem if you get offended; don’t take stuff so personally.” Has that always worked for you in the past? *yawn*
@Nebulous I’m back sweetheart, did you miss me? Man, that movie was damn good. Really got me pumped up. I feel all powerful and sexy now. I recommend that you check it out if you’re interested. Definitely go for the cinematic option.
I’m at the bar now. Started off with a gin martini because I’m a classy gal. Waiting for my fajitas.
Do you have a DVD player? If so I know what I’m sending you for Christmas. It would be a sin to miss out on the charming whimsy of Pushing Daisies.
P.S. I hadn’t heard of that band. I’ll check it out on YouTube tomorrow.
That wasn’t a misrepresentation you never actually explained anything all you did was copy and paste that is truth….sometimes the truth hurts…..and now its funny how you have the gall to call anything a fact considering your stance this who time….
If I were a troll it would be apparent by me insulting and disrespecting you and not saying anything pertaining to the conversation…. If you google his name with crazy next to it there is an abundance of information on the fact…. so to answer your question yes I do believe he wasn’t working with a full deck….
It is your fault if you get offended I’ve said nothing offensive this whole time….
anyways this conversation is pretty much over…..you haven’t explained anything and you still haven’t proved how that statement even made the slightest bit of sense….if you want to believe in it fine but I just needed you to know its bullshit…..as I’ve said before even a genius can say something that is dumb
@Persephone; I don’t really celebrate X-mass. If you want to send me a gift though, like a movie, maybe we could star in our own? No need for a rating. We could create our own cinema-mo-graphic spectacle. Just throwing that out there. No need for you to waste money when we could create our own art.
I hope no one else is reading this. *This comment is exclusively for Persephone. Don’t add me to your X-mass card list*.
So the movie was good. Kewl. Do you have any plans for the holiday season?
Wow, you do just keep repeating yourself. You need the last word here. Go ahead and tell me more about how offended I am and the truth hurts and etc. etc. You clearly have deep insight into my emotions; have you considered making some money off of that talent?
I’ve heard your shtick ad nauseum. Right, right, all I did was copy and paste…whatever you want to believe; it’s true for you. By all means do your thing one last time. Really, I will not bother to comment. I want to hear just one more time about your moral high ground or maybe how I’m some sort of rage machine. I’d prefer if you stick to your script: You have it down pat.
@Nebulous Actually no I don’t, now that you mention it. What about you?
The film was based in the 70s, which was fun. The main actor, Charlie Hunnam, is a pretty decent looking chap. I’ve always had a thing for boys with blue eyes. I hope it’s not as sad behind those beautiful eyes as they say. (The Who – Behind Blue Eyes.)
Dude ….Reread me and your comments from top to bottom you never explained anything…I’m glad you can’t delete or alter your comments because anybody who takes 5 minutes to do that will see I’m not lying on you dude…as I said before your insults indicate you felt some type of way….what was your point in insults and disrespect if you weren’t offended? or maybe you aren’t capable of discussing things without doing that I don’t know
But I digress this isn’t even what the conversation was about and its pointless to waste time on what you did and did not do when anybody can read our comments on this thread and see it is truth and fact that you never explained anything
Yeah..he’s a tool! lol
@ Persephone; Do you ever forget passwords? I do. There’s so many to remember. 1-2-3-4 is usually a good one, but you can’t use it every time. Sometimes you gotta go U-V-W-X-Y-Z. (No one ever thinks of that).
Eyes of all colors are pretty, mine are…some color.
I can’t remember the password for this thing I was just doing. Dammit. I might go to sleep.
I’m glad you had a pleasant evening. You really should have more. Be well, Persephone.
@Nebulous All the time. I constantly have to reset mine. My phone is almost dead. I wonder if I can recharge it here. I’ll probably just have to go home, dammit.
The fajitas were delicious. I got a deep-fried Mars Bar with ice cream for dessert. Everybody needs to try these at least once.
My evenings would be especially pleasant if I could spend them with you sometimes. I can dream… Maybe when I move to California to become a screenwriter (or failing that, a TV/film critic), since I won’t be too far from you, we might have a chance to, you know, hang out π
But out here in california you would have to give up your love for deep fried candy bars. π I think they are illegal out here! I’ve heard the Mexicans bootleg deep fried twinkies but that’s just the word on the circuit!
G’nite Persephone. It’s always nice interacting with you, but I must sleep.
Fajitas are the bomb, parting is such a deep fried, bitter sweet sorrow…
So…
Do you guys have any idea how much i hate spending my fridays glued to SP?
Also: i would gladly trade deep fried candy bars for medical grade cannabis products. Worth it.
Parting thought: The most common birthdate in America is roughly around October 1st. Why is that?
Women are pregnant for 9 months. If “encounters” happen around January 1st, when’s the kid popping out? All those X-mass/New Years Eve parties get-togethers result in all sorts of “happy accidents”.
How many people do you know born in early October?
Fridays ….mondays….whats the difference…. I do the same things on both days they really don’t hold any significance to me although I know what you mean….it sucks
Everyday is Friday out here in california! π don’t mean to brag
That whole “9 months” thing is actually not as accurate as it has been widely believed to be for a long time.
I would predict most births occur ~9 months out from any of the holidays: new year’s, valentine’s, independence day (irony!), solstices, equinoxes, thanksgivings, X-masses, etc.
Seasonal events and typical labor holidays are the times when most conceptions occur. But obviously not all of them.
@Nebulous Er… something important just came up. I’m going to send you an email. I hope you won’t mind.
I never thought about that before, but it makes sense
Our brain’s interpretation of reality is all we ever perceive…fuckers.
Yeah..and your ass is the only cushion your brain will ever perceive…piss ant! lol
thought my brain was in a vat
The sensitive people seem to be waging wars on this site! lol
And no, that wasnt a comment referring to you jswissman
This is me trying to resist commenting negative remarks! lol Γ°ΕΈΛΒerrrr!!!
It’s so hard! hehe
It’s like some people say stupid shit just to draw me out into the open!
But I’m trying to resist!!!
Damn you people!! lol
@RT30…I don’t see what the point in his comment was seeing as how I already said that in an aforementioned comment above…..
@pain- I’m talking about 2 different things in my above comments. Neither had to do with him, just the one where I called him a piss ant
lol
@RT30: I don’t know what comment you are talking about, but I assume it is as important as calling me a piss ant. In high school I was called Pissman as it rhymes with Wissman if you really are having a difficult time with original material.
I prefer the classics! π
I don’t think making fun of your name is appropriate!
I was called all kinds of names in school….that’s life unfortunately!
yeah okay didn’t know piss ant was a classic; suppose depends on the decade. Is piss ant vintage? How is making fun of someone’s name on a suicide forum inappropriate? I’m not sure I would draw the line at making fun of someone’s method of suicide. This gives me an idea for a new post…
Glad I can help inspire! π
Yeah piss ant is an old term. You like googling things, I’m sure you’ll find it.
Oh and btw.. You ask some odd questions sometimes as if to expose some kind of weakness (or maybe it’s just playful sarcasm) with me. It’s ok, just pointing out that I’m aware. But it’s as if you’re trying kinda/ish too hard to get your point across quick, looks forced. Idk, I’m just a stoner! π hehe
I will say though.. Making fun of anyone inappropriately is subject to opinion. I just don’t find reason to make fun of people’s names. There are so many other superficial things I can make fun of. It’s when I’m not making fun of you, that’s when you should feel offended! lol
@jswissman- I’m not gonna comment on your post. I read it twice and I fail to find the relation between what I was talking about and what you are trying to get across. I tried to find questions to answer but i found none, so… So I’m just gonna drop it. No insults, no “giving a shit”, just not interested anymore. That’s all π
Try a french croissant stuffed with cold double Belgium chocolate.
@RT30: Given what you say (“just not interested anymore”), silence should have been your choice. You are explaining in this post why you are not commenting on another post.
If I am not interested in something, I just don’t comment; I don’t comment to say that I’m not interested. That’s silly.
Yeah I know! lol but I’m just being respectful letting you know that I tried. I’m not just shutting you down cold. But… You didn’t see that I actually responded cuz yes I felt you actually deserve a response if I’m capable of forming one.
You are very touchy my friend! lol
LOL
I love how my user name is in your subject title!
Gives me this sense of power and influence over people! π hehe