So,I could blather on here about my depression (2+ yrs) my empty,pathethic,useless life,and listen to people patronizing me and feeding me lines like “take a walk and be at one with nature” or “reach out and talk to someone” etc etc etc. Im not here to get into that bull. People are reading this because they are depressed and absorbed in theor own stories, or other people want to feel pious and try to “save a life. So lets just skip over that crap and let me say what I want to say.
Here is my rationale about suicide,in general. Some may agree,some not,but its based on my journey through my shitty life and trying all of those platitudes about “reaching out.”
1.Suicide prevention has nothing to do with saving or even helping the suicidal. It is 100% geared toward helping the “survivors” and preventing anyone from feeling guilt,failure,anger,or remorse about not dealing with the suicidal persons needs.Call up a hotline. They read from a script,and try to pawn you off onto a counselor after they try to guilt you about “how other people in your life will feel.” And they try to do this in 20 minutes or less.If you call and are expecting someone to really talk to,you’ll be (un)pleasantly surpirised how quickly they try to box you in and wrap up the call,but not before “making a pact” not to hurt yourself. That eases their minds,not your pain.
2.Guilt about leaving family/friends/sig. others/etc. If they were there in the first place,you wouldnt be feeling suicidal now,would you? Again,if they try to interfere,its b/c they are the ones who have to live with your death and whatever feelings of inadequacy,shame,etc that they feel. Thats THEIR problem. Once again,its all about trying to protect the survivor from ‘feeling bad”,not taking into account ending your pain permanenetly.
3.The selfishness argument. “Oh,people who kill themselves are selfish. they are cowards.” Classy move. Lets project ones feelings about the death and place the blame on the person who is no longer here. Yes,in a way it is selfish. The depressed person is finally standing up and doing something 100% for their best interests.They probably didnt do that in life,so its shocking to others that that person finally stood up for themselves.As for coward? To admit that your life is meaningless,empty,nonprductive,and only bringing you pain,and then choosing to do something about it is quite the opposite of cowardly. It takes a brave person to admit enough is enough and step away from a life going nowhere. Cowards stick around,spend a lifetime suffering trying to make others happy b/c theydidnt die and leave them with a guilty conscience.
4.”People who kill themselves are going to hell.” Listen,not getting into a religious argument here. Your beliefs are your beliefs. But,the plain fact of the matter is(no matter what0 WE DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN WE DIE. besides some kookamamie crackpots claiming to have seen ghosts,no one has come back to tell us what happens. Who knows what and how we will be judged in the afterlife,if there even is one. On a personal note,I am a Catholic,and I believe that if the tales of God being a just God are accurate,then He/She cannot fault someone escaping pain and inflicting misery on others.But thats my belief,I know many,many others are there.But until I see proof,I dont think its right to project a possibility of torture onto someone who is suffering. for many,if there is a hell,its better than what life is here.
5.The “theres a light at the end of the tunnel” argument. If things were always going to get better,depression would be nonexistent.Sometimes,life just sucks and its not going to get better. Same for the “if you love me,you wouldnt leave me” argument. If someone really loved someone,a) they wouldnt be depressed and b)they would want them to be at peace.
So thats my thoughts…debate if you want.
10 comments
So whatz your action plan?
Hey Sunbird; You make alot of valid points. Would anybody miss you? Are you OK with inflicting that level of pain on somebody who cares about you? Is your life really that fucking meaningless that the only viable alternative is ending it all? I’m not trying to talk you out of anything, but is it possible there are alternatives you haven’t yet considered?
I think you’re wrong about suicide prevention. Suicide prevention is to keep people alive, but more than that to get them help so that they can enjoy life. You can argue that’s selfish since the potential survivor wants them alive, but nothing is ever done without self pleasing. It’s impossible. We would not do something that we don’t want to. You might think hurting yourself, or paying someone a large debt you owe. Well hurting yourself relieves emotional pain, and paying back a debt releases you from guilt, fear and any repercussions of not paying.
Basically what I’m saying is, yeah, it’s selfish. Everything is. But it being selfish doesn’t mean it’s not also good for the other person.
Yr wrong that about family/friends/sig. others/etc. ‘If they were there in the first place,you wouldnt be feeling suicidal now,would you?’ Many suicidal people have may people who are there for them, but they either chose not to see that, or the pain outweighs the love they get. Also, in many cases depression is a problem with brain chemistry, in which case it doesn’t matter how great your life is, you still might be depressed.
You make some valid points, but its all so heavily skewed to the negative, it’s hard to take as an objective arguement.
why r u so angry? the things u posted hurt we’re trying to help each other through depression god i feel like ive been slaped
@not here: I’ve read countless horrible accounts of suicidal people being locked up in mental asylums “to prevent them from killing themselves”. but then being locked up in a mental asylum obviously does not help the suicidal person. While physically they won’t be able to hurt themselves, it just makes them feel even more helpless, miserable and alone. That doesn’t sound like helping them enjoy life to me. Most of these people immediately go back to trying to kill themselves anyway after getting out.
While I think there definitely should be a suicide preventation system for helping suicidal people get over their extreme depression etc, it’s definitely not being done right at the moment. And I think people should still have the right and freedom to choose between trying to overcome their suffering and giving up.
@Lucy-No,no one would miss me,and if I thought anyone cared about me,then i would have a glimmer of a reason to stay. Basically restating what I said above-is it worth it to prevent someone/some people from feeling “bad” or “guilty” for a short time only to have the person who is suicidal suffer nonstop? To answer your question,yes,my life-and others Im sure- IS that ^&^*&( miserable, and after three years of therpy,hospitalizations,medication,life changes,etc,I think that I have exhausted all of the alternatives that keep me living this existence that lets the people in my life “not feel bad.”
@nothere…I disagree that all actions are self serving.Like that episode of FRIENDS,there are some acts that people do for the sake of others that have no benefit to themselves. Perhaps suicide prevention helps some,maybe even many,but in my experience,it is not organized for the benefit of the suicidal. Again,call 1800 SUICIDE or the like….they simply throw some lame words at you in hopes that you dont do anything right then,i.e., preventing the so called “survivors” from having to deal with their feelings upon ones death.They are about postponing the inevitable drama/pain/whatnot for THE SURVIVORS,not about really trying to help the suicidal. They dont teach coping skills. They dont discuss strategiesto help you improve your life. They don even talk to you as much as you need…they only alot you 10-12 minutes. So tell me again,how is that supposed to be for the suicidal?
@oneday…Yes,my points are negative,but then,depression doesnt exactly have its positive aspects to talk about.You may be right about the brin chemistry piece-in this case,then i do believe meds and such will help.However,I also believe that there are others for whom all the therapy,meds,groups,etc in the world cannot help,because their lives are just that empty. And for thos people(myself included)if they dont want to subject themselves to decades of a meaningless existence,why shouldnt they say enough is enough ,and stop being an anchor on a society that doesnt want them and doesnt benefit from them?
@losttears. I have my reasons for being angry. I apologize if you take my words personally-seek help in whatever posts take you to your special happy place,but I have a right to post my feelings,and they have nothing to do with you.
@Sonic- I completely agree with your views.I think Ive explained myself in the above comments,but you sound like you have similar views that I do.
@ctb driver-action plan to be published in a longer post I think,but think Final Exit:)
Thank you all for your comments,whether or not you agree with me. Its good to have a place to be able to speak openly. Most so-called suicide boards wont even let you mention the word suicide,let alone methods,plans,etc.
Sunbird, if that’s the way you feel, I agree, I am not one to stop anyone from offing themselves but at the same time I can’t help feeling sad, for you, and the whole situation. It just means that everyone, the whole world, was not enough to keep you here. We’ll try to do better next time.
Well I’ve never called a suicide hotline, and honestly I don’t know about what professional programs are in place. I agree that locking people up because they’re incredibly depressed is just morally wrong. I just meant that because someone doesn’t want someone they love to kill themselves, it’s not them doing it for themselves. Whoever the suicidal person is, the people in their life genuinely want them to be around, because they love that person and care for them. That’s all I was trying to say, is that wanting to keep someone alive isn’t just to remove pain of survivors. It’s to help the one who might not survive. At least that’s how I think of it anyways.
I did call one of those hotlines one time that I thought I was losing all control. And the lady at the other end said “Just what makes you feel so depressed?’ I was taken aback. I just hung up. I know there are many people out there with all sorts of problems. I wish I could help just 1 of them. But I don’t have the means or capability to help any of them. I just do not see any reason for my being. I feel I am waisted time, energy and space.