Welll on Easter Sunday my pastor came back. Well he was doing a sermon on Suicide.(Which is how i found this website). Then he was talking about this one thing that got his attenion. I forgot what it said but it brought him onto something. Then it got me thinking and how im typing this. I know God wants us to die of old age. But they say if we kill ourseleves we go to hell? But alot of people are complain cause God didnt help them out or he did save them. Not to be mean or anything but what did you do for God? Yea i know im going into this reilgion shet and yes i hate reilgion more than the next guy but still? Im curious on why people blame god for their problems and how he made it hell or he didnt help. I want to hear strong curious voices out there.
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Our problems are products of incidents, a perfect storm of bad cirmcumstances. I don’t believe God throws problems at us.
Your post caught my attention because my reason for suicide is that I’m doing *too much* for God. Well, I’m not even sure if I believe in God in the conventional sense, but what I mean is that everything I do–all the stuff that gets me into trouble & feeling miserable–is for the sake of this world being a better place.
I wish I could just be a normal person, get a 9 to 5 job, 2 kids and a house and be content with that, but no, I’ve given all that up so I can try to fix this heap of a world we’re stuck in. I know there are a lot of others here who feel the same way… whether or not we’re curing lepers in India… lots of us are really hurt by the suffering we see in the world & our powerlessness to stop it. If there is an omnipotent god out there, some of us could use just a little encouragement to keep going. Otherwise the whole show seems pointless.
One word:Fossils
I don’t blame this god for anything. Because to me, this god is as real as the damn tooth fairy is. So there’s no point in blaming a thing I don’t even believe exists.
I think the reason people blame god is because a lot of believers say this god had a life planned out for us ahead of time, so why would this “loving god” plan to put people through hell? At least, that’s always what I’ve been told from people who are angry with this god.
This is going to be a little off-topic and will probably sound strange coming from someone who is a Christian. In your post you said that we will go to Hell if we kill ourselves; while I have heard this before, I do not understand where it comes from and I don’t like it. There are very few references to suicide in the Bible and none of them say that it results in an immediate ticket to Hell. I know of a boy who killed himself several months ago…personally, I have just as much hope that he is in Heaven than if he had been killed in a car wreck.
Since I am a Christian, I do not condone suicide. I don’t believe that you can give your life over to Jesus and then take it back to end it. To me, suicide is giving in to depression and despair and admitting that you have no hope (all things which don’t really go along with Biblical Christianity); however, in all the many times I have read the Bible, I have NEVER seen it listed as the unforgivable sin. It makes me extremely upset when I hear it being preached as such…if Christians would spend as their time encouraging and helping people, then maybe there wouldn’t be a suicide problem to preach about.
Why on earth was your minister preaching about suicide at Easter anyway?!
If God exists and that is a big if, then he is wholly responsible. At the end of it all, he created you, the world, your circumstances, your life, was utterly aware of every detail and yet not only did nothing to intervene but actually willed it to happen. So forcing you to exist and then making you suffer for a whim of his? That is tyranny.
Alot of people say that humans are ‘at fault’, we suffer for our ‘own’ choices. That is actually not true and is an illusion of sentient thought, however, regardless of whether it is or isn’t, God is the root problem; he created you without your consent AND forced you to live in misery.
I cannot even fathom a possibility in which he is not to blame. Oh wait, yes I can, one where he doesn’t exist. Which is thankfully, the most likely.
Hey Bane, check out the post I recently made about good vs. evil. FTS posted an interesting thought that maybe “God” doesn’t know the concept. Maybe the concepts of happiness & suffering don’t even exist except in our minds.
Think of it this way. You have a car. Inside the car are tons of little parts, pistons, gears, belts, etc. Don’t you think they might be “suffering”? No, that’s dumb. They’re just supposed to do their job, no matter how hot it gets under the hood. And if a piston busts, you throw it away and replace it with another.
This may seem like a cruel model of the universe, but it is efficient, productive and possibly meaningful. Maybe we’re all just parts of a car that God is driving from NY to LA. God is not necessarily being a tyrant or a monster for subjecting us to this horrible experience; maybe God just doesn’t grasp the concept of our suffering. Because maybe “suffering” has no meaning.
I’m sorry but this is inaccurate. I too pondered this line of thought myself, however one thing immediately defeats it. God is fully aware of the concept of suffering.
When we say ‘God’, we refer to the abrahamic god of the three theistic religions, yes?
This ‘god’, has built a utopia and a hell, to reward or punish those he deems fit. That alone proves God is completely aware of suffering and our relation towards it, since many of the things he describes are good and bad in our eyes respectively.So God knows the ‘car parts’ are suffering.
Regardless of our suffering on here however, he also forces us to participate in this life knowing a very high percentage of us will eternally burn. Therein lies the bulk of the tyranny.
Even if that doesn’t defeat your argument, then this surely will. God being all knowing would have to know that we suffered, even if it was only ‘believed’ to be the case. So knowing that, he still forces us to exist and as you say, “for an efficient and productive world that is potentially meaningful” (paraphrased).
Now, this is highly erroneous because there is no meaning? How could our world mean ANYTHING? At the end of all is an omnipotent being who has no needs. What could our mortal coil possibly ‘do’? It if does mean anything, then God is not omnipotent. Which brings us to the age old saying, God either can’t or won’t. Efficient for what? Productive how? It’s like forcing bugs to play in toy castles and saying it has meaning.
So at the end of all it, God is aware of our suffering (believed or not) and forces us to live for no other purpose than his whim, which results in either us suffering or living in a mundane (but that’s another argument) utopia forever. If that’s not Tyranny, what is?
Valid points. I agree that a benevolent abrahamic god is a paradox. I believe a benevolent omniscient god is a paradox. And I believe a benevolent omnipotent god is a paradox.
Here is where I deviate sharply from classical religions (all of which portray the big G as being sentient, omniscient, omnipotent and, for the most part, benevolent. I use your very same arguments, but instead of concluding that there is no god, I conclude that god is not all-powerful or all-knowing. Instead, my definition of god stops at “the being or force that controls the universe (as best it can).”
I believe the universe is in some cosmic struggle to shape itself, like a giant embryo. Perhaps this embryo is god itself. And we are like cells in the body of this colossal infant, growing bones, fighting off infections, and struggling to give the universe life. In that sense, the meaning of life is to create God. Once god has been completed in 17558 zillion years, then perhaps it will be omniscient, omnipotent & benevolent, and that’s when the universe (the body of god) will be in complete harmony.
I bet there’s not a single religion that wouldn’t burn me at the stake for saying so, but that’s the only image of god that I can accept.