When I first came here I did a post about this topic….but recently while in a Chat Room the debate was started up on if money could solve everything….My stance was that it couldn’t because some problems can’t be solved by money alone….others proclaimed that money would allow you to buy happiness in the form of material goods and great experiences….They brought up some good points so…
So I’ll ask this…
If you were given a 100 million dollars tomorrow….would your problems be solved? would you be able to obtain some form of happiness? would you prefer to live? would your depression vanish?
99 comments
It wouldn’t solve all my problems but it would take care of a lot of them. 🙂
(My fairy godmother is bound to show up one of these days, right?)
Hell no, because my problems are deep within me. I would trade all the money that I have for not feeling shitty.
Replying to your question, I would keep a bit of that money to just continue to live and give the rest to my family and some close friends.
Does cyanide count as a material good?
100 million dollars! hell yeah! it would be an amazing night! too bad i wouldn’t remember the next day.
Can money solve everything? No.
Can Anything solve Everything? No. (unless death counts, which could be debated)
“If you were given a 100 million dollars tomorrow….would your problems be solved?”
Most of them, but not all of them.
“Would you be able to obtain some form of happiness?”
Probably.
“Would you prefer to live?”
Probably.
“Would your depression vanish?”
Unlikely, though it would be severely reduced.
If such a thing were to occur, i would first make all the appropriate arrangements necessary to manage such an outrageous amount of money, and my next order of business would be to get some dental work done. Immediately after that, i would locate some small amount of land to buy, and buy a double-wide, an economy car for most things, and a truck to haul my stuff. I would build a supreme top-tier gaming-grade workstation computer, and begin learning about designing houses, and would quickly hack together the best ‘modest’ design that i could come up with, while having it “futureproofed,” and allowing for future expandability; a permanently modular home, incorporating various technological advancements like automation, solar power, backup generators, etc. And then i’d pay a professional architect a consulting fee, to have him/her assist me in perfecting the design, so that it can be built ASAP.
Meanwhile, i’d literally do whatever. Without all the stress of not knowing how i’m going to be able to ever have a life, or even survive… i’d probably concentrate on nutrition and fitness for a while, and might even spend time doing some college things, so that i could feel like i finally did something with myself.
I would hope to eventually learn the most important things i’ve always wanted to learn, but never had the means or the circumstances to facilitate it, and would hope to eventually create some things that i could point to, so that other people can see that i’ve made tangible and respectable contributions to the world (because they value that, and i can’t change how their minds work).
I would probably spend years just enjoying not having to worry about a damn thing. I might sometimes get bored or restless, or feel empty… but due to my decades of prior experience with managing and simply just tolerating unpleasant feelings, i would ultimately be “fine,” because i could simply decide to do something, due to the availability of surplus funds, and the lack of any obligations obstructing my pursuits.
Money would allow me to be comfortable, entertained, and mostly stress-free. Money would allow me to put my thoughts and ideas and plans and desires into action. Money would allow me to actually live; of which the lack of such options are the largest contributor to my misery. The problem is that i was not able to choose better circumstances, and those i’m now stuck with, due to making the best choices i could, from what was available, prevent me from being able to even live my life. And so essentially, i don’t even have a life. I am basically already dead, but remain alive enough to wish and desire and suffer the lack of anything worthwhile, and all the emotional and physical pain that comes with it.
Money doesn’t need to solve “everything.” Nothing is perfect. But if i had enough money, or a way to make enough money to do the things that interest me, i would not “sit around being depressed.” I might still be depressed, but it wouldn’t matter very much, because i would have real options to actually do something about it, other than just suffer until i eventually kill myself.
The point others made was that with that kind of money you could buy the highest quality of profession help and you could buy things like plastic surgery or other things to improve your self esteem…. I personally wouldn’t care about the 100 mill because it doesn’t allow me to do the one thing I desire most which is return to childhood….
I would buy some high quality barbiturates… A deserted island….and probably several hundred pounds of the highest most potent grade cannabis and heroin and I would smoke it all and if I don’t overdose I’d take the barbiturates and then die…
I’d leave the remainder of the money in a charity fund to benefit those displaced by homelessness and depression and it would be used to specifically help those people….
It wouldn’t do anything major for me for the simple fact I can’t buy the one thing I desire most…
My “problems” wouldn’t be solved, but it would be a hell of a lot easier to avoid them if I have a constant stream of ketamine pumping into my blood stream.
I think the money would make me want to kill myself after a while. It’d “prove” that I have no purpose and that there’s no one I genuinely could call a friend.
I’d probably leave the remaining cash to a stranger. Or a place of worship.
It’s a shame that you feel that way, noonoo. If we lived in the same area I’d be your real-life friend, if you were fine with that. We’re from different generations, sure, but you’re mature for your age so why not. 🙂
@Noonoo12: I read somewhere that Ketamine has actually been shown to cure many forms of depressions….I guess that would be a drug I’d include on my little island as well….
I agree with you though….its like if that money doesn’t do anything signifigant for you then you know you’ve reached the end of the road
Why if. WHEN we are given 100 million…
Anyways my mother always said that it’s better to cry in Mercedes while raining or walking and crying in most horrible weather.
So.
Of course, money brings you comfort. You could have a new car, new clothes, start over and maybe that all would boost your confidence and self-esteem and you’d start to think that life is actually pretty help.
But then.
Money can’t cure problems. It can’t make them go away. Or make depression disappear.
@resu: I kind of get that statement but I don’t think it really matters where you are when depression strikes….millionaire or peasant it still has the same punch …
Comfort and happiness aren’t the same ….while the money may solve financial problems it does nothing for the insides…. I’d still hate myself and I’d still want to desperately return to childhood even with a 100 million dollars…. I’d give it all up for just a few days to live in 2002 again….and I wouldn’t regret it not one bit
PainNLife,
Let’s combine our 100 million dollars and start developing a time machine! I’d give anything for that thing.
@Persephone
Just think, if you were a man and you’d said that, you would’ve been branded a paedo. Double standards.
You’re old and I’m annoying. Wouldn’t work.
@PainNlife
At low and controlled doses injected intravenously over a prolonged period of time is said to be effective at treating severe depression.
I suppose it didn’t work on me. Maybe because I didn’t do it in a controlled way, but it bummed me out even more. Or led to the things that bummed me out.
@noonoo Hehe. I’m probably not as old as you imagine. Ah well. I’d still have been willing to lend a hand if you ever needed anything. (I wouldn’t have said this if I were a guy.)
I hope you will find some good friends. You’re probably more intelligent than the lot of ’em youngsters, I suppose.
@Resu:…. Man that would probably take several billion dollars….first we’d have to bring all the top scientist in relevant fields together…we’d have to pay them to form a think tank devoted to time travel….we’d have to pay for the equipment and research to work out all the kinks and paradoxes of time travel such as “the grandfather paradox” …we’d need a lot of money man…. but if it worked it would be all worth it….even if it only took us back for a few days it would be worth it…
@Persephone
You’re 22/23.
Likewise with the hand thing, in case you are ever in need of happy pills in England. That’s pretty much all I’ve got.
I don’t need friends. It would be counter-productive at this point.
@Noonoo12: … That’s probably why it is illegal….to keep the placebo pills selling and the money coming in….if depression is cured quickly then people lose money
PainNlife,
I was kind of hoping we would invest that on hmmm…alien technology. Yapp it’s sad kind of. Everything is perfect, irresponsible of everything when you are child. But then everything slowly but surely wrecks you up. Growing up and getting older sucks.
@noonoo Not so far off after all.
Thanks.
I don’t have friends in real life either. Meh. It’d be a waste of time to befriend others in this area when I’m planning on moving elsewhere some point soon.
@Resu: I wouldn’t mind developing a planet for life….they say Mars is capable of life although I’m not sure if the authorities would allow us to do that….
Childhood Ignorance is bliss…. You know nothing of murder or suffering or evil things….your biggest concerns are cartoons and toys and video games….nothing else matters…not politics not the economy not world issues nothing….
“I wish life was backwards. You start out dead and get that out of the way. Then you wake up in an old people’s home feeling better every day. You get kicked out for being too healthy, go collect your pension, and then when you start work, you get a gold watch and a party on your first day. You work for 40 years until you’re young enough to enjoy your retirement. You party, drink alcohol, and are generally promiscuous, then you are ready for high school. You then go to primary school, you become a kid, you play. You have no responsibilities, you become a baby until you are born. And then you spend your last 9 months floating in luxurious spa-like conditions with central heating and room service on tap, larger quarters every day and then Voila! You finish off as an orgasm!” – Woody Allen
Man if only life was like that
@PainNlife
Easy way to make some cash – stockpile placebo pills and then sell them on.
It’s what my dad does with his now. Mainly to kids who think they need them.
Buy some ketamine on the black market, exhaust all options before you resort to killing yourself.
@Persephone
You come across as early 20s. You’re not as jaded and motherly as some of the older women I’ve read from here. No offense.
I suppose I’ll always have classmates. They’re alright, just a bit too “emo” at times, for my liking. Gets on my tits.
Where do you plan to move on to? Or is it a secret.
If I was given a 100 million dollars tomorrow….would my problems be solved. No. You can take the boy out of the hood but not the hood out of the boy.
@noonoo12:… I wouldn’t even know where to look….then on top of that I’m broke so if I actually was lucky enough to find an online supplier then I have to find a way to get the money by doing something illegal….I really am pressed for solutions …anything involving spending money is out the window….
Thats a nice hustle….he better be careful though…sometimes kids get used as narcs …
PainNlife,
Hmm well they already want to have some one-way manned projects in there so good idea. It’s all about selling this idea to government.Haha, life should be like that. Though I think Philip. K. Dick wrote a book about it. But then I think in book something went wrong though.
@noonoo Yeah, I doubt I’d be a ‘motherly type’ either way. S’pose I’m not entirely jaded, haha.
I hear you.
Well, I guess you could say it’s ‘up in the air’ right now. Time will tell. I need the money first. (Hence why $100 million would come in handy.)
@resu…we’d most likely be denied….governments don’t having people in places outside law and authority…although clevernames idea wasn’t too bad….it was very detailed….
I just don’t think the money is worth much if the one thing I want isn’t obtainable….I hate that I desire the impossible so badly….
@PainNlife
Grow poppies. Make heroin. I’ve got nothing. I doubt the way I make money will work for you. I’m guessing you can’t find work or that you have a shitty job that barely covers your bills and shit. Either way, sorry.
@Persephone
You never know. Motherly instincts might kick in if you ever do pop one out.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, supposedly, from what other SPers have said, you are fit. Sugar daddy. Or sugar mommy? Depending on what you’re into.
@noonoo Ah, I couldn’t pursue anyone based on their money. It’d go against my personal values, heh. If I didn’t ‘like’ somebody, I wouldn’t be able to put up with them for long. They wouldn’t be able to handle me either. I tend to do my own thing. Not many like to see an independent and strong-willed woman. They want someone more easily controlled. However, I think I’m pretty agreeable to be around as long as there’s no problem with me not following routines, not living up to high expectations, etc. Idk. My last housemates wanted to murder me so who knows.
There’s a HUUGE difference between:
Can Money solve everything?
and …
IF you had $$XX …
would your problems be solved?
would you be able to obtain some form of happiness?
would you prefer to live?
would your depression vanish?
No – of course money cannot solve everything … but it can smooth over a lot of rough spots … one cannot go back in time and take back some harsh words or deeds done to another person … but using money to purchase a gift can soften the hurt that was caused … it’s doesn’t make it “go away” but it could help demonstrate that one recognizes they made a mistake. The examples of things that cannot be solved with money are endless … one cannot buy a new arm or leg … but one can get a fancy prosthetic etc.
As for the other questions … which are only fragments of “everything” … here’s my answers:
would your problems be solved?
– most of them (all of the pressing ones to be sure)
would you be able to obtain some form of happiness?
– sure … or at minimum a lot of cool distractions 😛
would you prefer to live?
– I prefer to live now so there’s no change/difference
would your depression vanish?
– I’m not clinically depressed – never have been … what i am is frustrated, tired, irritated, beat down, screwed, etc … so no, my depression would not vanish since there is nothing there to disappear … but a lot of the other negative issues would be greatly diminished
Bottom line, money can buy a lot of security, comfort, diversion, distraction, assistance, education etc. … but happiness cannot be “bought” at any price … happiness can only be created from within one’s self … but money can greatly increase the situations and circumstances where ones might have a higher probability to choose to feel happy.
hypothetical dawg
@Persephone
Why not? You’re both getting something good out of it. 😉 But noo. That’s wrong.
How do you work then? If you can’t follow routine.
@noonoo 😉 I prefer if somebody falls for me who I like in return. Life is short, I don’t want to spend it around some person who drives my gears, even if they ARE rich. I mean… am I supposed to have affairs on the side? You see where this is going.
So far I haven’t had a job that requires me to follow the same hours. Hopefully I never will. I’d like to have some writing gig I can do from home. Write for online magazines or some such. I’d rather that than deal with petty coworkers.
If you’d do what they want you (or someone) to do, then there would be no need to “control” you. It’s not that anyone doesn’t like to see an independent woman, it’s that no one likes to be rejected or denied, or to feel like they have to “control” someone into willingly participating in the experiences they want to enjoy during their one and only life. IMO, there is nothing more attractive than an independent woman who /wants/ to be what i want someone to be, but for her own enjoyment.
It’s not that they don’t like your independence, it’s that they don’t like that you’re not into what they’re into. The only options in that case are 1) try persuasion (aka controlling), 2) go without. Most people try #1 before #2.
@Persephone … oh, you’d want me … if i had teeth 😛
when you get your $100 mill … send me some choppers and private jet amd we’ll have a weekend in the keys 😉
fantasy dawg
@clevername Hey, for me it’s all about meeting in the middle. They do what I like, I do what they like. A 50-50 effort. If one party feels they have to force the other, I’m out. Not gonna deal with that. (Unless I really like them in which case perhaps compromises might be had. I’m not very demanding, all I want is my freedom. That doesn’t mean I intend on cheating. I’m capable of being loyal.)
@Dawg Hehehe.
You don’t have good teeth? Are you British?
(No offense to Noonoo.)
I don’t think it’s really about happiness. Everything is impermanent, therefore happiness is impermanent.
However, happiness, or joy rather, seems to be connected with contentment. Nothing can give you contentment, it’s a quality that needs to be developed.
If you are content having nothing, then I think money would allow you to spend more time doing what you want, and having a sense of security. It’s ultimately a false security, but I do think that a content person would benefit from having money.
However someone who isn’t content, or happy, in having nothing, won’t benefit from sudden wealth.
So I guess I’d say yes, and no. Money can give momentary joy, but ultimately it’s hollow and fleeting.
Kindness, generosity, patience, perseverance, equanimity, wisdom: these are the real treasures because they lead to dispassion and ease. In other words, contentment.
@Persephone – yes i have bad teeth … one of those things money could fix pretty nicely (but not like the originals) … but no, not British … if i was i could probably get new teeth from the British health system (NHS) … nope … i’m fortunate enough to be in red state murica
blue dawg
@Persephone
Life is short. Make money fast and then enjoy it as best as you can. That’s what I’ve been brought up to pursue.
Marry fast, no prenup, divorce. You’re half rich! Well done. Then go do whatever else there is to do. Life plan sorted.
And no worries, my teeth are pretty bad. I went a year and a half, when I was 8 years old, missing 8 of my teeth because they had to be pulled out. Gum something something, ruined tooth lining or something. I don’t know. I was 8.
NHS would give you dentures. For free.
@Dawg Dang, maybe you’ll win the lottery sometime. Nothin’ wrong with America.
@noonoo As it happens somebody already offered to marry me. Not for the money, I don’t care about that. I could probably find some other way to acquire quick bucks if I really wanted. Life plan? I don’t have much of one. Live fast, die young, basically it. Too bad I’m not in the class of Marilyn Monroe; I would have had it made.
Ah that would have sucked. I had to get retainers or something when I was 8. My jaw was kind of messed. My teeth were fine after that.
Green card? Or “I like you, lets get married”?
Become a foot model.
Nah I liked it, I used to eat food weird and it entertained the other kids.
Green card first of all. 😉
Foot model? LOL. I could have been a runway model if only I’d been about 5″ taller and didn’t have health problems.
…Is he russian?
Which kinds of models are the weird looking ones?
Oh my … you haven’t been paying attention … murica has gone batshit crazy … starve the poor, burden the poor, blame the poor … all for voting for the black kenyan dictator usurper … any more if your net worth is below 10 mill, you’re lazy worthless mooching scum.
Yeah, there’s a lot of good down here, and a lot of potential … but there’s factions that are wishing harm on perceived “undesirable” people who don’t view the country the way they do … the recent trend is disturbing to say the least
that said, winning the lottery is easier said than done … but if i do win, i’ll help you relocate to your next chosen destination … after i get my teeth, of course 😛
gummer dawg
As far as I know, nope.
(You actually know this person yourself.)
All of the Eastern Europeans? Haha. (I’d be another of the weird looking ones.) I don’t know, some of them have very interesting bone structure. I’ve shown pictures of models I found attractive to guys, but they were like, “She looks manly.” So. Maybe I like androgynous types. I used to have a Tumblr with fashion photoshoots, I had some of the best blogs following me as well, but I deleted that a while back when I decided to disappear from the Internet. I should make another one.
@Dawg The economy is in the dumps everywhere, isn’t it? Except for possibly Switzerland. I doubt there are any ‘ideal’ countries.
I’m going to say C4.
I’ve never used tumblr. I thought it was just lesbian gifs and images of inspirational quotes and cutters and clothes.
@Dawg That’s why I have nothing in stocks right now. There just doesn’t seem to be anything worth investing in.
@noonoo Good guess. (We’re going to see how it goes. Need to meet up first, obviously.)
Tumblr certainly does have a plethora of lesbian gifs, but there’s a lot more to find if you look in the right places. I suppose I prefer general blogs as opposed to Tumblr, though.
You might be surprised to know that here in the states, the economy is not “in the dumps” … in fact it is struggling to get going a bit … but one political party has so much hatred of a certain politician or rather high position that they are doing just about everything possible to sabotage any recovery … so while it would seem the US is struggling, it is actually a self inflicted conscious choice to make this certain politician look bad.
Almost reason enough to get out of this game since it’s inevitable that i WILL go down with the sinking ship … better to go on my terms 😉
FYI – the people/politicians who are choosing to do this are the ones who claim to be the most motivated by god/religion … they claim divine guidance and purity of patriotism … pure sedition and treason in my eyes … disgusting
andrea dora dawg
@Dawg Yeah, I’ve noticed all of that ‘unnecessary drama.’ My country was undergoing a bit of that a few years back, but we pulled through.
When will be the next major election? 2016? I can’t recall.
They obviously use religion only so that people will vote for them. This is why I don’t vote. I don’t want to be part of any of that. I know that whoever is in power never matters much – the ones pulling the strings seem to always have their way. Forget about their promises of tax reduction and health, education, military funding, et cetera. In the end, whatever THEY want comes first, NOT the people.
@Persephone
Ah well, congratulations. 🙂
I don’t blog much. Coming on here is the only blog-y sort of thing I go on.
@noonoo Don’t say that too soon. 😉
This certainly is a unique kind of blog. Idk. I don’t blog much either, occasionally I’ll read articles here and there, or just look at photos. Architecture, modern art, new technological innovations, and so on. TrendHunter dot com has some pretty cool stuff.
2016 is the next presidential here … but they’re all pretty damn important these days trying to get the nutbars out of office. FYI – not voting doesn’t mean you’re not a “part of” that … you still are … it just means you allowed others to make the choice for you … you’d be surprised at how grateful some parties/politicians are that you actually do NOT vote … they COUNT on it.
I agree, they are all puppets or dictators and certainly liars … but some intend to set policy that harms me or other people … and my conscience won’t allow me to not stick up for those who need it in the only way left to me that dosn’t involve money … which usually means i vote for the liberals … for all their silliness, at least they try to create equality and security for poor, minorities, women, LGBT … plus a better chance to get pot legalized … the conservatives only want to shovel tax money into their cronies’ pockets and pass religious based legislation.
fair and balanced dawg
Yes, I’ve always been on the side of the Democrats, myself. I suppose I’d vote for them if I saw the need. You’re right, the non-voters do come into play in the grand scheme of things. Hm. I wish I was in the position of inscribing legislature. I think I would devise very fair and reasonable laws. 😉 We shouldn’t have to deal with this silliness regarding drugs and so forth – and there are many other issues that should be properly considered without bias. I’d invite you to join my council; you seem to have a steady head on your shoulders. 🙂
The last election i missed was the 2000 election when bush won but lost the popular vote … if me and about 20000 other less motivated people had actually voted, things might have been dramatically different … that one election really illustrated how much one vote could matter. I vowed never to let apathy, cynicism and indifference consume me again.
I’ve seriously considered trying to run for a congressional seat … i certainly couldn’t do any worse that the bozos and numbskulls that are there now … and it would solve my money and health issues 😛 …but who would vote for a toothless old hippy looking democrat … they’d never believe that i’m more of a centrist … at least fiscally … socially i’m way liberal … and an unapologetic atheist to boot … yeah, that’d go over well here in the south east US
radical dawg
You guys are missing the point.
Both officially endorsed parties are wrong.
If you can deliver a solution that doesn’t involve either suicide or revolution, i’m all ears. Until then, we’re screwed.
I’ve decided the best thing we can possibly do is always vote out the incumbent, regardless of which party line you choose to tow. The less affect those career politicians have on developing the world, the better. Don’t let anyone stay in any office long enough to do anything significant, and we can slow the decline, and the machine. Leave them to their own devices long enough, and we’ll be living in a technologically advanced authoritarian fascist dictatorship that continues to refer to itself as “a capitalist democratic republic…” blah blah “freedom” blah.
You know Dawg, you should totally go for it. I’d vote for ya in a heartbeat.
Clevername – I never said that the Democrats were ‘right.’ They just subscribe to more values that I can get on board with.
I’m aware that ‘freedom’ is more of a concept than anything these days. However, I still believe that laws must be imposed and followed, so as to avoid anarchic chaos. Nevertheless, the laws today could certainly do with some tweaking.
lol I whats this rubbish about “voting” I am reading?….surely no one seriously thinks voting for a president matters…does anyone actually believe that?…..you have two candidates who only argue over minuscule issues about shit that doesn’t really matter but on the large scale things they are in cahoots….
But for the sake of this comment lets say they are legitimately selected….They are funded by big businesses so who are they going to look out for? campaign contributions and lobbying is a nice legal way to say “bribery” ….Voting is about as useful as an umbrella full of holes…you’d be the same not carrying the umbrella…
“If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” – Emma Goldman
Also it was barely covered by the mainstream media but did you know the polling machines have a code in them that allows the votes to be altered? So much for integrity huh?…So after all that voting a few button presses and a couple million votes can be erased or transferred…
Democrats advocate the “nanny state.” It’s bad protocol.
I disagree that laws “must be imposed.” People need to be taught why appropriate behavior matters, and have instilled in them from birth, that it is their own responsibility to maintain their own appropriate behavior, “for the greater good,” and no one else.
1) teach people the right things and ways
2) abolish all stupid laws
Obviously those two steps require a new and yet unprecedented paradigm. We’re going to have to abolish ridiculous belief-based organizations as well. Slippery slope applies to all religion (except maybe buddhism; i rarely see any buddhists engaged in crusades); if you let them do it in private, they’ll build an army and start a crusade to convert the heathens, or at least overwhelm them with sheer numbers of converts, and then pander to the gov’t for special privileges, due to being “the majority.” The majority is not always right. In fact, they are usually wrong, because the majority is rarely adequately informed or unbiased about complex issues. Ergo: voting is dumb because it lets the idiots decide what happens, which makes the world stupider, instead of letting the intelligent ones decide to make things better for everyone, even if sometimes through methods the idiots won’t like at first.
Bring on the chaos. It’s a necessary step in human evolution. We have to figure out how to live with each other without being threatened with punishment. Otherwise all this is irrelevant, and there’s really nothing to save but the infrastructure of creature comforts and distractions. Sure, PCs and internets, hot showers and air conditioners are nice… but at what cost? AT WHAT COST!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! (note the hyperbolic use of all-caps and alternating exclamation and question marks)
Clevername – Really, I agree that people should be able to follow by their own moral code – a universal moral code of justice – but that is rarely the case, which is why laws must be enforced. The kind of laws that matter most, not the asinine shit that ends up with people having to pay huge fines for practically no reason.
I don’t like religion either, but I wouldn’t abolish it. You’re asking for trouble that way. Let the people have what brings them comfort. If I were the head of some government, I wouldn’t tolerate the violent religions, and I would have a strict – no religion in the state – policy; ergo, politicians could not use their religious affiliations as a means to gain supporters.
You have a lot of morons out there. It’s unquestionable. These type of people need rules to keep them in line. They have no regard for their personal safety nor that of others. If laws are what is keeping them from going out and gunning down public malls, then so be it. Of course the true crazies are going to do what they wish either way.
It certainly would be nice if the state were governed by (atheistic, non-biased) intellectuals – but, I doubt it would be much better off. Despite whichever group is in power, you’re going to run into problems.
“left wing, right wing…same bird”
Voting is stupid because its a waste of time….its tantamount to praying actually…the idiots don’t decide anything and the intellectuals don’t either ….its a dog and pony show every 4 years….
@Pain; True, but laws are still necessary. Civilization would not have gotten to this point today if structure had not been upheld. It’s unfortunate that this means that certain people must be ‘in power,’ but there seems to be no getting around that at the time. This paradigm has been too deeply entrenched for it to change.
The way I see it – some figurehead is necessary, who’s ‘supposed’ to stand for the people. This is often not the case, and it is only some group who wants to be in control, “damn everything else,” but, how can this schemata be contended? It cannot, as it has always been in place. Each community, since the beginning of human history, has always looked up to a leader to guide them. Yes, in each community there were also freethinkers who did not believe in following, nor leading. But since the majority ‘needs’ to be lead, this is the way the systems will continue.
@Persephone Laws are necessary but only rational laws….not these money generating pieces of shit legislation that are only passed to make profit for somebody….Structure and a flawed system need not be one and the same….this country needs to be rebooted with a new system because the current one is bullshit and most people know it…
We need to start realizing these “leaders” are human…money and power doesn’t make them above human status…they need to be transparent and bend to the will of the people not the other way around….
If people cared and desired to change the system we could…but we can’t get enough gas in that engine to get it going….people are docile and content and blind today….nobody cares about anything as long as we are in a so called “peaceful” state but peace isn’t and never will mean freedom
On one hand, i like to emphasize that voting allows the masses (who are rarely the most qualified) to decide what to do about any issue, most importantly, the important ones.
On the other hand, “voting” in this country, in this day and age… perhaps even throughout all of human history, is a facade. It’s a giant show. It’s theater. It doesn’t /really/ matter.
And so it leaves me with difficult notions about things like “women’s suffrage.” Why is it such a big deal to be allowed to participate in THE ILLUSION of choice? Because that’s all it really is, anyway: an illusion. It’s there to give people the false impression of having a say, having a semblance of control. But we really don’t. We are encouraged to believe we have a say, specifically for the purpose of disguising the fact that we really, ultimately, don’t. We “have a say,” but our say doesn’t actually change anything.
If we keep playing their game, they’ll keep winning, and we’ll keep losing. That’s the way the game is designed to function. It’s like that arcade game from Wayne’s World. It was impossible to win, and was designed that way so that “the kids just keep pumping in quarters…”
Just like that, this system is designed to bleed us dry, and to preserve us as long as economically feasible, so as to extract as much wealth from each individual as possible, before our deaths. That’s why we’re not allowed to do drugs, that’s why we’re not allowed help with suicide, that’s why we’re not allowed to utilize prostitution. They restrict the things that require us to participate in the system to access, and make it difficult, even impossible, to simply choose to live outside the system if we dislike it. We really don’t have a choice. We can only choose to lose, or choose to lose more.
The majority only “needs” to be “lead,” because they are deprived of an adequate upbringing. And by “adequate upbringing,” i mean they need to be taught to think, and the value of suffering. The value of suffering is a good enough motivator to explain both the need for economy and mitigation of collateral damage, as well as the reasoning behind true morality: you don’t enjoy suffering, so don’t needlessly cause it for someone else. If you cause it for someone else, there had damn well be a very good reason for doing so, and if you gain something by exploiting someone else, you should give them a significant cut of your profits, because THEY had to suffer for what you STOLE from them, by imposing your will and occupying their life with miserable experiences; and that is time and experience you can’t get back or replenish or undo. Time is permanent, as it is written into history through our actions, which come from our thoughts and feelings, which are based on our ‘phaneron.’ This is why it is important to be realistic, and to strive for a clearer vision of both the world, and the self.
Clevername; I agree, but the problem is that we cannot teach EVERYONE, because not everyone has the mental capability to discern for themselves without constantly seeking others’ approval or validation. We can do our best to persuade them to think for themselves, and realize that actions have consequences, but for some, the lesson never hits home. Hey, this can happen to anybody, including you or I or anyone else here. We cannot claim to have learned from ALL our mistakes. It is true that those of us who engage in debates on this forum (and others like us) would be rather capable of existing in a lawless society (I think), but there are so many others who would be lost without structure and without a figurehead to look up to.
I don’t like the idea of lies and illusion either, but what else is there? What else are we to do? We need workers, we need taxpayers so that we can have other benefits, we need caretakers, we need entertainment (life would be quite dull without it), we need thinkers, leaders, doers, and artists. There are so many aspects that go into a smoothly running state. Without structure, people would not know how to fend for themselves or anyone else. It’s all about survival. If our capitalist governments attempt to afford the least unpleasant mode of survival for their denizens, then I don’t have a problem with that. I for one have no wish to go out in the woods and live off of berries and mushrooms until I become wildlife fodder.
So, no, i don’t agree that laws are “necessary.” Laws are not “necessary” at all; they are, however, useful for controlling people’s actions through fear of imposed consequences. There are countless completely superfluous and entirely unjustified laws, for which millions upon millions of people have had their lives utterly destroyed.
And why? Well, because someone somewhere greased the right rails and fabricated enough “evidence” to convince a bunch of idiots to vote themselves out of more freedoms.
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, and oppression is the cost of not paying that price. We now have laws based on invalid precedents which make it almost impossible to repeal unjust laws that never should have been allowed in the first place. How can anyone respect a system that is so obviously exploitable and so blatantly lacks integrity? A system without integrity is not just vulnerable, but prone, to instability, exploitation, and outright abuse of those at its mercy, at the hands of those with the power to control what it does, how, why, and to whom.
Honestly, it’s fucking disgusting.
So; “if i had $100 million…”
I would buy a bit of land in a place where i have the least resistance to growing and smoking my own high-grade cannabis, and i would build a modest but awesome house, and i would spend my money on taking care of myself and being thoroughly entertained, and would perhaps attain some sort of measurable fulfillment through being able to afford access to the worthwhile experiences and enjoyable items i would otherwise lack. And i would be almost completely content to just pretend the rest of the world doesn’t even exist… because it’s not like there’s anything i can really do to really change it. Maybe i’ll spend years writing out a bunch of notes on what i think people should do differently, and how… and leave a legacy that i’ll never know about, which will only ever become important to anyone else, long after i’m gone. Meanwhile, i despise the idea of my life ticking away, virtually stolen from me by those with the power to choose whether to include me in good things, or lock me out. People always scrapping over bullshit, chomping at the bit to get another trinket, vying for illusory temporal dominance… i swear, 99.9% of all people are completely missing the point. And it’s because they’re lead to believe certain things, certain ways, because someone with the power to spread memes, has done so, in order to advance their own agenda. And it’s working. Isn’t that just horrible? I think so.
I say bring the anarchy. People will learn. Things would eventually get better, and would be on a better path than the one we are corralled along, today.
Well, i agree, we’re anything but “free” … it’s managed serfdom … and the people elected … and yes, they ARE actually elected (you’re free to disagree obviously) – but the people elected are beholden to the corps that fund their campaigns … but there is no need for the cloak and dagger conspiracy stuff because they’ve basically been grooming these people from the start of their political careers – there’s no need for the risk of the conspiracy which would cast doubt on the system … so yes, votes count – for real … the last thing the moneyed interests wants is for people to doubt the system.
That said, you’re right about the banking and corporate and land grabbing laws which are all the moneyed interests cares about … but the parties do have real tangible differences … take LGBT rights for example … DEMS are for equality … and REPS want them jailed/killed/burned at the stake (you might think that is vitriol but there have been US republican politicians who have gone to african countries to “guide them on their “gay” policies which include killing/exterminating) … in Virginia the governor’s race has the Republican candidate who actually wants to outlaw basically all sex that is not straight vaginal sex … everything else – even oral – illegal if he was to get his way … no shadow conspiracy puts a nutbar like that on the ticket
So yeah call me a time wasting idiot – but votes matter – and i’ll vote because although i KNOW that every candidate is working for moneyed interests – the aspects of law that can be created for people IS important
So, yes, at times the Dems go overboard with the nanny-ish BS … but how does that differ from the Reps Vagina police? I mean the Reps rail for smaller government but it would seem they’d need to employ the vaginal inspection stations and the bedroom monitor squads – if that’s not “nanny” i don’t know what is.
deputy dawg
Naw we need some basic laws….without them people would have no need for self control….For example an outburst of anger in an argument would more likely be deadly without the fear of consequence….So there needs to be some sort of order….not as prevalent and ridiculous as it is today but humanity wouldn’t survive very long without basic laws
@Dawg Good god, this is why the infamous Canadian prime minister Pierre Trudeau was right when he said, “There’s no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation” – obviously an exception must be made when the parties are not of the age of consent (i.e., child sex slaves), or for abuse/rape, etc., but other than that… Grief.
@PainNlife I concur. Like I said earlier, I wish that people could follow a moral code, but many simply don’t care.
@dawg …Yeah votes count….they count for a whole bunch of nothing…. I don’t believe people are elected for a number of reasons….mainly being because if you notice no matter who actually gets in office they overall follow a preset agenda of the previous president whether he was a democrat or republican…. They never do anything worth anything….the LAST president that was actually a true president was Kennedy…and you see what they do to people who tell the truth….he even told you what was up….people have since forgotten but I haven’t…
Thats my point…they argue over bullshit to keep people distracted….I mean really?….where you put your penis is THAT big of a deal…seriously?….with all the shit wrong in the world it is really an issue of where a so called “free individual” puts their penis?
The differences they have are minor….they don’t address shit that actually matters like the 85 billion dollars the Fed is pumping into the economy to keep it stable…hell the federal reserve itself….they ignore real shit that actually matters….like the Petro dollar and why we are obsessed with military spending when no country has invaded america since the British
Haven’t you heard? … we tried total anarchy up until god graced us with his 10 commandments 😛
seriously – yes, we need laws to maintain civility and to penalize those who would threaten that civility … without them, it would be a completely Darwinian “society”
A good analogy for politicians … NASCAR (auto racing) … politicians are like the drivers … they all have very similar cars, engines, tires set up to a standard set of specifications and all sponsored by several companies … there is a lot that is the same between all cars and drivers … but there are some aspects that can be individualized and customized to help performance … and the races must still be run. if you notice on most race cars, a lot of them all have the same sponsors – like politicians, they are all bought by the same companies no matter the party. but the competition is still real
24 dawg
@Persephone:… they sure as hell don’t…..even though “the purge” was just a movie it is a real example of what most people would become under lawlessness
@dawg nice analogy….until you realize the cars were given different amounts of gas so that whoever the powers that be wanted to win…became victorious
“…the last thing the moneyed interests wants is for people to doubt the system.”
Gonna have to stop you right there; that’s not a good enough argument for dismissing “cloak and dagger conspiracy stuff.” They aren’t “elected,” they are *Selected. That one little letter makes a world of difference.
Look, anyone who tries to make a law that says i, a fully discerning adult, cannot buy a video game that depicts certain fictitious graphically rendered events, and also that no game company is allowed to make and legally sell such things… that person should not be allowed anywhere near the lawmaking process. That person should be slapped repeatedly with a rotting fish; or some other such grotesque and humiliating, but minimally harmful activity.
Dawg, your ‘generalist’ side is showing. You’re all like “oh, those damn republicans!!!”
But those are not republicans, they are *neo-conservatives. There is also such a thing as “neo-liberals.” There is a lot of lexical dissonance at play these days, and the labels are intentionally self-contradictory and confusing, so as to create arbitrary conflict and impede understanding among the masses. It’s all part of the master plan.
As for the “you can’t teach Everyone…” argument; we don’t really need to teach everyone. Some people can’t learn. Those people should not survive. That’s how things are supposed to work.
A person properly taught, would be very unlikely to have an uncontrolled outburst of anger during an argument. A person properly taught, would be unlikely to provoke another person in such a way that they cannot resist loss of composure, or the temptation for violence. Two people properly taught, can disagree, even intensely argue, without the need for physical violence; if you start throwing punches during an argument, you lost the argument. You’ve abandoned civility, and traded it for imposing your will on someone else, just because they either don’t understand, or don’t agree. Two people properly taught would control themselves, because they would realize that even murdering the person who disagrees with you, won’t accomplish what the argument was intended to achieve.
Yes, there needs to be some sort of order; a self-imposed order that everyone values enough to maintain it, and protect it, themselves; both for their own sake, and the sakes of everyone else.
@clevername: true but you simply can’t trust people to uphold that standard when emotion becomes involved …. everybody has a boiling point….not everyone will be able to argue civilly when matters like money and love are involved….
I’m pretty sure all self control logic and rationality goes out the window when a gun owning husband walks in on his wife getting the life screwed out of her by another man….His anger will overcome any rational actions he may have otherwise chosen….
@Pain – There’s no need to rig the “fuel” when the same investors who have a stake in ALL the players will come out a “winner” no matter which car actually wins. Think of it likeone football team playing a scrimmage against itself but wearing different uniforms so the casual fan doesn’t realize all the players are on the same team – it don’t matter who wins – the team owner wins – period
so – @Clever – that said, there’s no need for the “selection” vs the Election … I think you’re right on Kennedy – he was a renegade and not following the game plan of the moneyed interest … and you may be right on the labels and whatnot – you’re so much more informed on these things – but hey, you knew what i meant 😉
between the lines dawg
But you have to realize who they actually are backing….Obama had been groomed to be the president long before people actually knew of him….they select who they want then parade two idiots in front of you to see which idiot you prefer….of course it doesn’t matter because the choice was already made for you but they know they have to keep people believing they have some sort of power….that’s why I noted the code in the polling machines that allows votes to be edited or deleted….what purpose do these codes serve if it is truly in the hands of the people? nothing….except to manipulate the outcome to make it seem like who they chose is who the people chose….
Those codes are real… http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/23/1029259/-Programmer-admits-computers-rig-elections
Why would a person be asked to do such a thing???
But would that scenario still occur, if people were taught right? That’s one of those exceptional situations where all 3 people know something like that could happen, and yet they proceed anyway. Two of them are primarily to blame, but if the “gun wielding husband” was taught right, would he still believe that the woman he married would never, ever, ever cheat on him? Or would he expect it to probably happen at some point? IMO, the best thing to do is walk in with a camera. Instead of shooting bullets, shoot evidence for the courts, and divorce that *****, and publicly shame them both.
Or we can see it another way, and simply accept that people will seek out what they desire, even if they have to break the rules. Should we be upset that people who do so end up damaged or destroyed? Should we punish the husband for doing what is essentially the right thing, just taken to an unfortunate extreme?
Idk. I don’t think that all casualties are inexcusable. People are people, and bad things will happen sometimes, based on people’s choices. What law currently prevents a gun-wielding husband from shooting his cheating spouse and her lover? There isn’t one. There is only punishment for excessive retaliation, AFTER the event occurs. Despite the existence of laws, people are going to do what they want. What they want, will still occur, if they have the opportunity. Laws aren’t stopping those things. We don’t really need laws, except *perhaps in the most severe and heinous cases.
And for a counter example: cannabis should never be illegal anywhere, except perhaps while operating heavy machinery, or piloting passenger planes, or driving professionally, etc.
All laws should be retroactive and transparent.
Nothing should be illegal unless you hurt someone else while doing it.
Wanna do 100mph in a residential area? Great! But if you hurt/kill anyone, or damage anything, you’ll pay heavily.
Wanna cook meth and sell it? Great! but as soon as anyone dies from your stuff, it’s your fault. If no one dies, then you are simply supplying responsible drug enthusiasts with their preferred recreational substance.
That’s the way things should work: everything is legal until someone gets hurt. If someone is harmed, harsh penalties are issued, except in any case where the victim feels that forgiveness for an accident is appropriate. Maybe the victim did something stupid that wasn’t the fault of the person who inadvertently harmed them while coincidentally being under the influence of some substance? Just throwing out examples. I could do this for… probably indefinitely.
I can’t rewrite the entire legal system in an evening.
Laws aren’t outright stopping anything but they serve as a deterrent to crime….like for example a kid who has a curfew from his mother will be less likely to come in late because the curfew is established and he knows if he breaks it there will be punishment….do you think they would come in at an appropriate time if no punishment was given for staying out at ridiculous times? …same thing with laws….people will do what they want true….but for many people the consequences would serve as a deterrent….
I agree about being able to do something as long as it isn’t hurting anybody else but sometimes that can be tricky….for example
A burglar could break into a upscale home while no one is there and while he is leaving the home owner arrives and shoots him….the burglar could use the argument that he wasn’t hurting anybody since technically he didn’t hurt anybody by stealing some items….he may have caused property damage but he never physically hurt anybody and therefore since he was hurt by the homeowner it is he who should be charged and penalized because he shot someone that didn’t technically harm him…
@Dawg: well now you’re making sense again. I agree that both (all) sides of the system are essentially owned by the same people, and they will win no matter which “driver” places first. But that’s just one of the various strategies that can be employed (or deployed). They can control it any which way. They can decide in advance that they want a particular candidate to end up in office, or they can just let “the masses” vote… but the masses are easily mislead anyway.
sidestepping:
Honestly, if you look at Romney’s recent campaign… it’s hard to believe he was serious. It’s like they didn’t even try to seem legit. Or, it’s like obvious sabotage. It’s unclear which of those things is more true, but either way, both the beginning and the end are the same. “They” wanted Obama in there; just like they got Bush TWICE (thank you diebold!), while most of the world considered him to be laughably inadequate for the “job.” Then again, he made a great clueless patsy who thought he had actual power. He was nothing but a puppet. “Mission Accomplished”
Remember that clip of him fumbling through the phrase “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me?”
Try to wrap your mind around the irony of him saying that. They are practically rubbing it all in our faces and “laughing all the way to the bank.” It’s diabolical.
@Pain: i would agree on the burglar thing that he “wasn’t hurting anyone,” if only he was *Copying their items, rather than actually removing someone else’s possessions. You’re right, it can and will get ‘sticky.’ But have you seen today’s law ecosystem? Sticky, slippery… disgusting, incorrect, unjust, unreasonable, indefensible…
Surely we could do better if we tried… if we were /allowed/ to try.
But we’re not allowed to fix what’s wrong with the laws.
What does that say?
Romney campaign was laughable indeed but even that election was rigged….I don’t understand why if it was truly up to people what purpose does the code that allows votes to be altered serve? There would be no point in it if they truly wanted people to decide between the morons….I really believe they choose….then they hold “elections” to give us a “choice”….its like when your mom used to ask you what you wanted for dinner steak or chicken and you say “steak” and she says “its too much we are having chicken instead”…..she knew she never planned on really giving you a choice to decide ….it was a choice up until you picked something she didn’t choose…aka you had no choice….
@clevername…. I agree with you but I mean todays “justice” is pimped out to those that can afford super high priced lawyers that can decipher law jargon and find loopholes to get people off that otherwise are inaccessible to people ….have you actually read something written in lawyer jargon? it is confusing as hell to me….I’ve never been so confused by the English language in my life…the average joe doesn’t have a shot up against trained prosecutors who know what to say and how to say it….justice isn’t blind…it sees who it wants to see…
@clevername I’ve seen that clip from Bush before and… OMG wow, is all I have to say.
Anyway, these guys are all human too, even if they have to read from teleprompters. I have no more respect for them than I do for anybody. I actually like the current leader in my country – he is calm, cool, and collected, and a good public speaker. He’s as good a representative of the state as any.
As for the legal system – I totally get what you’re saying, Clevername, that everything goes unless you’re caught… but the threat of getting caught is supposed to ascertain that folks will not step out of bounds in the first place.
I like the law in my country. ‘Innocent until proven guilty.’ It’s orderly and yet it allows for loopholes. I have the mind of a lawyer, I apologize. This stuff is all so fascinating to me. I want to see justice, but I know that justice is not always served, which is unfair, but when you rely on an ‘actus reus,’ ‘mens rea,’ evidence, and the final words of a fallible human jury and judge… you will be bound to make mistakes.
I would change the laws and punishments so that they would be more constructive to the economy of the state – no more lengthy prison sentences; instead, I would send offenders to labour camps for a period of time. The mentally deranged would be sent to institutions and treated until they were able to recover, or, if not, they would be placed into controlled environments where they will work as well as partake in other more pleasurable activities. The youth could go to juvenile camps, or possibly into military training. I wouldn’t want the taxpayer’s money wasted on these individuals sitting in their jail cells for thirty years, doing nothing.
How does locking someone up teach them a lesson? What good is coming out of this? It is not beneficial to anyone. I’m not saying that jails have no place at all – they’re good when you need to hold someone for questioning. But after the trial and verdict… they serve no purpose for the accused. If the accused is violent without restraint, he belongs in a mental institution where he can be medicated and hopefully put to work sometime, even if under supervision.
There are other ways to approach verdicts, these are just a few examples.
I’ve read through a few TOS and some DV stuff, among other things… and you’re right, it’s worded in such a way that the average person would be unable to come to an adequate understanding of it without help.
But what i was saying about elections is that they are playing it from multiple angles. They like to game us. They like to see if they can convince enough people through their other means and methods, and if it doesn’t work, they can always alter the results. Or, they can just set out with the intention of adjusting the results to suit the desired ends.
They ‘say’ “innocent until proven guilty,” but if i’m innocent, how does that justify giving an enforcer the right to detain me prior to any verdict, or even any trial? If i’m innocent, no one has the right to detain me. If someone has the right to detain me prior to my being found guilty of whatever crime, then i am in fact NOT “innocent until proven guilty.”
And then we have to figure out what to do about being found guilty of violating a law that should never have become law in the first place. Lots of people are guilty of such invalid crimes, but because “the precedent exists,” you basically have to argue against history itself. When the precedent is set unjustly, through illegitimate means, then the precedent is invalid. When the supreme court refuses to abolish an illegitimately established precedent, and then refuses to hear any further arguments in favor of doing so… then what? We let 9 people decide that we can’t fix an unjust law? The cannabis laws are at the crux of the issues i have with the “legal” system. If our legal system is not even reasonable enough to figure out that cannabis shouldn’t be illegal (arguably the same for most, if not all other drugs), then how can i respect it for any other reason than the fact that it simply has power to impose upon me whatever it decides, without REASON, and due to a precedent established through bribery and fabrication of evidence, and especially hearsay and false testimony… it’s just bullshit. The whole thing is bad, for this particular reason. TPTB have the power to make bad laws, and there’s nothing we can do about it. That’s not justice at all. That’s authoritarianism. That’s neither freedom nor democracy.
@persephone: “I would change the laws and punishments so that they would be more constructive to the economy of the state – no more lengthy prison sentences; instead, I would send offenders to labour camps for a period of time.”
Thats a major problem ….Major major problem…..labor camps allow people to pay virtually nothing to prisoners for work that free citizens could be doing for a decent wage….that takes away jobs which hurts the economy….labor has no place in prison unless it is pointless ….like make them dig deep holes then fill them back up with dirt again….but any labor that a free citizen could do that is done by an inmate for next to nothing isn’t good for the economy ….its basically outsourcing jobs to prisoners….
…and then you take that free prison labor and make backroom deals, and soon you’ve got unjust laws meant to fill countless prisons with otherwise law-abiding citizens, so that someone can profit from all that forced free labor. You can buy a new law to create a bunch of free forced workers who cost the system only as much food and electricity as it takes to keep them barely alive. In fact, another version of this is already occurring, as an integral facet of the conspiratorial “war on drugs.”
You want to build prisons so you can get gov’t money, and so they make a new tax that pays for the prisons, and you buy a new law that gets lots of people arrested and sentenced, and then you’re getting free money from the gov’t, just so you can house the “criminals” who only broke the law you paid to create, so that they could exist to justify the money you skim from the taxes raised to support your numerous prisons. And then you have a faceless corporation controlled by sinister profiteers, who are able to take out enormous equity loans (probably) on the corporation’s assets (which are obviously numerous for a corrections/detention facility). You can also “create jobs” for staff and security and all the other fun stuff that goes into the whole prison system.
Or! you can subversively encourage violence and criminal behavior, ghetto culture, racism, hate, poverty… and then people will naturally commit crimes, both out of ‘want,’ and out of total apathy and lack of respect or compassion for others, because this is a harsh world and that’s just the way it is (when that’s all you ever see or experience). “I gotsta get mines.”
Or, you could look at it another way, and see that the gov’t is apparently too stupid to realize they could be raking in endless revenue from a potentially wildly successful cash crop, which allowing people to use as they see fit, would make lots of people happier, less painful, more content… and without all the R&D overhead of big ******… and it’s even sustainable. You can make more paper per acre than with trees, per crop, in a shorter time, and have more frequent yields. You can make rope, clothing, oils, and countless food products containing high quality proteins from the seeds. You can make medicines from it, or you can smoke or even vaporize it directly. Plus, it fucking smells good.
They could be raking in profits like a ************, with huge margins. And yet, with trillions of dollars of national debt, hopelessly spiraling out of control… they continue ignoring this option, while spending billions of dollars on employing DEA and other such agents, to instead arrest and then prosecute and then imprison and them probate people, just because they enjoy using it responsibly, as a means to help them cope with this unbearable life they’ve created for us, by building a prison planet around us all.
I didn’t mention anything about pay or not. It would be fair to put a stipend in an account for these convicts so that they could have this upon their release. They wouldn’t be doing useless tasks like digging holes. In the late 1700 to 1800’s British convicts were sent to Australia to work and make a new life there. I don’t see anything wrong with that sort of idea (although obviously we aren’t going to send people to another country). They can be sent to controlled environments like factories and such, according to their skills, like the Australian method in those days.
I’m not going to have the citizens of my country wasting away in jail cells. That is contrary to reason. They must be punished in a way that will benefit the country as a whole.
Perhaps they could have the option of going to a controlled work setting or enlisting in the military. Some would gladly choose the military option, I know that.
Even if they aren’t paid jobs they are still hurting the economy….what do you think a business owner would do if he had the option of paying 15$ hourly to free citizens or negotiating a one off fee to a warden to have prisoners trained and make them work those same jobs for free or next to nothing?…..
I agree that maybe they should go to the military or something like that but they should have no place working because as clevername said it creates an atmosphere for corruption and bullshit…
The only reason weed will remain forever illegal is because it is ruffling the feathers of too many industries so they lobby to keep it illegal….especially the petroleum industry….they don’t want anything that can affect their profits in the slightest way…
I never understood how they could make nature illegal….like its natural…how can somebody outlaw mother nature?
If they’re not working, they’re doing nothing. Some prisons these days are comfortable. The inmates partake in decent food, hot water, television, other entertainment activities like team sports and exercise, and even conjugal visits. So the taxpayers are supposed to sit back and say, yes, this man shot his buddy in a drug feud, and now he’s allowed to have a reasonably comfortable existence in prison, with no hardships save for that of dealing with the other inmates and staff, and perhaps the tedium and boredom that comes with loss of freedom? Why should he deserve this without giving ANYTHING back? If he were not imprisoned, he would be out there making money somehow. So, I don’t see why he should be entitled to this lifestyle (one can even become very physically fit in prison because they have access to the time and resources). You’re supposed to teach people a lessen with boredom? Is that it? Preposterous.
* It’s the murder that should be taken into account, not the drugs. Murder = taking away a life without permission = unjust. Drugs = as a concept are not intended for serious harm; therefore = not unjust. If someone intentionally tries to harm others by selling them the wrong kind of substances, or ‘slipping something into their drink,’ I.e., ‘a date rape drug’ – this is unjust, because it means that one party is infringing upon the rights of another. Therefore, such an action would deserve punishment.
That’s not true…very few prisons are what can be defined as comfortable and the majority of prisons are filled with vile disgusting predators who pry on the weak….You are placed in a small confined space with a guy who you know nothing about….the food is like eating cardboard….you have to be alert at all times and may get in several fights over minuscule matters…possibly deadly fights….you are forced to join a gang for protection against other inmates….you only get to watch what the guards say you can….you wear the same clothes you have to bathe in front of other men who are possibly homosexual ….These people are removed from virtually all pleasures of freedom into a cesspool of the worst degenerates around…. many of them are on edge all the time and very hostile….
They do give something back….Time…and thats the one thing that can’t be recovered no matter what….children grow up, wives remarry, possessions are sold or given away, your money is spent, your home or other assets you don’t own are repossessed …. that is a steep price to pay….
Prison isn’t daycare not by a long shot and if it were that comfortable people wouldn’t be reluctant to do things that put them at risk for jail time….
I’m aware of all of that, but I still don’t see how putting people in a confined space for x amount of time is going to be beneficial to them or anything else. When they are released (if they don’t die first) they are still the same person they were at their indictment, with the same impulses, same bad habits, and so on. They will be changed from their experiences, but it’s not going to make them a better person. Probably a worse person, in fact.
Putting people in prison is basically the same as when parents lock a child in their room for ‘time out.’ What is this doing for the child? Maybe it helps them calm down, but it is constructive in teaching them WHY they shouldn’t have done what they did? No. “I shouldn’t hit my sister because if I do Mom will lock me in my room for an hour.” How is that a good learning technique? The kid knows it’s wrong only BECAUSE he was punished. He is not told WHY he was punished.
Obviously adults are able to discern between what is right and wrong, but knowing that – “If I shoot this dude who pissed me off I’ll go to prison for a very long time…” It’s exactly like how Tommy will think to himself – “If I punch this kid the teacher will send me to detention.” Nowhere does the issue of justice emerge. IT IS UNJUST to harm others without cause. Yet, people don’t realize this.
Sending them to prison will not help, hence why they should be doing something USEFUL for the duration of their conviction.
** I’m not sure if any of this makes sense. I’m tired. Time to go to sleep.
@Persephone:… That makes perfect sense and I agree with you. Its just who is going to put forth their time and effort explaining that to people….You also have “the war on drugs” which creates a lot of extra prison inmates for no reason….how do you tell a guy convicted of selling weed what he did was wrong?….You really can’t unless you say the very thing you say we shouldn’t say…..”because it’s illegal” is the beat answer anybody can really give to them…
Rehabilitation is non existent….Prison has become a storage house for those convicted of crime….While I don’t believe they should be working I don’t think they should be doing nothing either….I think all of them should be made to get their degree in any field whether they have an exit date or not….I think instead of marking them with a criminal record when they get out which is stupid since they paid their debt to society already I think it should only be accessible by police and the court system…but employers should have no right to use that against you…I also think male and female prisoners should be able to correspond with each other….the support of the opposite sex who is in the same situation could be beneficial to people
I think they should be treated as humans who did wrong instead of humans that ARE wrong….
If we actually put a system in place to make these better people then we would have better people…
My money troubles are so bad right now, I can’t even build the strength or focus to be here on SP anymore. And that’s probably how the story of RealTalk30 ends
@RT30 Man I’m sorry to hear that. I hope something improves for you bro I really do. Take care ryan
I agree with persiphone’s 4:09 am post.
@Cagedtiger: You think prisons are comfortable?