It can be, in certain circumstances, but “romantic” is not an applicable term for all suicides.
But i also don’t think either of your example suggestions are near the top of the most typically primary reasons for its occurrence.
Most people choose it in lieu of a better option to avoid agony, torment, profound financial stress and requirements…
It happens because they confront and accept the truth that there is no other way to cease what they are either unwilling or unable (or both) to continue experiencing. They’re not always wrong. They’re not always misguided, angsty, emo teenagers who’ve been bullied.
To oversimplify: suicide happens because life sucks too much for some people. I don’t think “escape from irrevocable torment” counts as “numbness,” nor is it ever truly motivated by viewing it as an exciting new adventure. People kill themselves because life sucks too much and they can’t fix it. I don’t think that’s “romantic” really… but i do think lots of people “romanticize” it (ie: trying to make it romantic).
@ clevername So are bullied teenagers less suffering than adults? Beeing vulnerable and naive does not “devalue” suffering. But I don’t want to polemize but hear different views.
To me it is numbness. A state of undeadness when suffering itself is given up. In my opinion, a person who still suffers, who is in tremendous melancholy, in burning rage or anxiety – he cannot kill himself, because he is alive. The urge of life cannot wipe out itself but only death can, inner deadness can, defiance against life can.
The pre stage of suicide is always depersonalisation. When I meditate it’s like trip to hell but I’m alive. There is a never ever even a thought of suicide. But death comes tempting slowly, taking back into my thought affected mind, my self justice and accusation and from there I can see suicide wating. Less the physical death, but the former psychological is the dangerous bridge one crosses.
the columbine dudes surely knew what they were getting into, and that there would be no escape, prior to any of their actions. To imagine them sitting there “realizing” and “concluding” that there’s no way out, is the definition of “romanticism.” They knew their actions would result in many deaths, including their own. That was kinda the point. Get it? They were doomed before the first shot was even fired.
@D455:
Yes, actually. They just don’t know it yet, because they haven’t been there. And since they don’t know any better, they take offense and feel affronted by anyone suggesting that their suffering is less severe than that of anyone else. But the truth is that it’s actually less severe than adult misery, even though that seems difficult to imagine at such a young and seemingly difficult age. I know it gets much worse, because i’ve been both a suffering teen, and a suffering adult. Unless you fix it while you’re young, it does indeed get far worse. And i do understand why no one wants to accept that as reality… but it is. And i’m also not trying to say teen-suffering, in all it’s over-dramatized glory, is invalid. But “angsty emo teen” suffering, is indeed less than “real world adult” suffering. You can choose to be upset about that if you want, but if you live long enough you’ll understand why i said it. I just think it’s ridiculous to be upset about your own suffering not being validated as “the worst possible suffering anyone can experience.” Even i know, as a suffering adult, that there are people in this world who suffer even more than i do. I’m not angry that my suffering isn’t seen as “the worst.” Instead, i feel sorry for those who suffer even more.
@ clevername:
I am adult and I don’t like the quantification of suffering you do. Suffering is always subjective. If an emo kid kills itself of course this is naive from an adult point of view. I’ve been through a cruel childhood, a brutal adolescence and a fucking rest and still I think that i can be totally justified from an inward perspective to kill oneself.
Only the coping mechanism differ. Adult suffering may be more severes one hand because of the deeper understanding of its totality but simultaneously this knowledge is the tool for relieve.
Would you suggest that all suffering of all degrees across the severity spectrum are “equal?”
If so, that’s quite absurd. If not, then you have to allow for “ranking.”
I disagree with the term “quantified” here, because there is no way to assign a specific value-unit to suffering… but it is certainly possible (and indeed advisable) to “rank” comparatively.
Example: which is worse: losing a child, or losing one’s own limb?
A broken bone, or a broken heart?
A broken body, or a broken mind?
Death by prolonged, gradual and inevitable deterioration, or by burning alive?
To “quantify” suffering, would be to assign a certain numeric value to it. I don’t think we can do that. But we can certainly say that an adult who has suffered 20+ years, is most likely suffering even more than, say, a teen who has suffered for less than 10 years.
Sure, it seems like “the sky is falling” when you’re young.
But when you’re older, you realize “the sky” was never even there to begin with; it was just an illusion, constructed to manipulate you into desirable behavior. And then you find yourself stuck in a world that sucks, which was built to suck for people who aren’t wanted, and don’t have resources to manifest the approval of others, and therefore wind up isolated and miserable… but this time, it’s no illusion.
You are right. I didn’t want to say all suffering is equal, but the inner desperation when comitting suicide is equal for it is the limit. It is not an objective limit, but a limit of survival will.
Romeo and Juliet is romantic, because we know it’s just a play and only means that they really loved each other. Everyone thinks, that’s nice, and leaves the play. No one has to look at the reality.
Real suicide is romantic in the same way that a compound fracture is romantic. Not.
10 comments
It can be, in certain circumstances, but “romantic” is not an applicable term for all suicides.
But i also don’t think either of your example suggestions are near the top of the most typically primary reasons for its occurrence.
Most people choose it in lieu of a better option to avoid agony, torment, profound financial stress and requirements…
It happens because they confront and accept the truth that there is no other way to cease what they are either unwilling or unable (or both) to continue experiencing. They’re not always wrong. They’re not always misguided, angsty, emo teenagers who’ve been bullied.
To oversimplify: suicide happens because life sucks too much for some people. I don’t think “escape from irrevocable torment” counts as “numbness,” nor is it ever truly motivated by viewing it as an exciting new adventure. People kill themselves because life sucks too much and they can’t fix it. I don’t think that’s “romantic” really… but i do think lots of people “romanticize” it (ie: trying to make it romantic).
just like Eric and Dylan offed themselves at the end of the columbine highschool massacre. something so twisted and disturbed, can too, be romantic.
just imagine those fucks sitting there. thinking about the shit they just did, concluding that theres not way out of the mess they dug themselves in.
greeting each other goodbye and counting down, with the guns in their mouths.
‘see you on the other side
/edgy post-teen rant.
@ clevername So are bullied teenagers less suffering than adults? Beeing vulnerable and naive does not “devalue” suffering. But I don’t want to polemize but hear different views.
To me it is numbness. A state of undeadness when suffering itself is given up. In my opinion, a person who still suffers, who is in tremendous melancholy, in burning rage or anxiety – he cannot kill himself, because he is alive. The urge of life cannot wipe out itself but only death can, inner deadness can, defiance against life can.
The pre stage of suicide is always depersonalisation. When I meditate it’s like trip to hell but I’m alive. There is a never ever even a thought of suicide. But death comes tempting slowly, taking back into my thought affected mind, my self justice and accusation and from there I can see suicide wating. Less the physical death, but the former psychological is the dangerous bridge one crosses.
the columbine dudes surely knew what they were getting into, and that there would be no escape, prior to any of their actions. To imagine them sitting there “realizing” and “concluding” that there’s no way out, is the definition of “romanticism.” They knew their actions would result in many deaths, including their own. That was kinda the point. Get it? They were doomed before the first shot was even fired.
@D455:
Yes, actually. They just don’t know it yet, because they haven’t been there. And since they don’t know any better, they take offense and feel affronted by anyone suggesting that their suffering is less severe than that of anyone else. But the truth is that it’s actually less severe than adult misery, even though that seems difficult to imagine at such a young and seemingly difficult age. I know it gets much worse, because i’ve been both a suffering teen, and a suffering adult. Unless you fix it while you’re young, it does indeed get far worse. And i do understand why no one wants to accept that as reality… but it is. And i’m also not trying to say teen-suffering, in all it’s over-dramatized glory, is invalid. But “angsty emo teen” suffering, is indeed less than “real world adult” suffering. You can choose to be upset about that if you want, but if you live long enough you’ll understand why i said it. I just think it’s ridiculous to be upset about your own suffering not being validated as “the worst possible suffering anyone can experience.” Even i know, as a suffering adult, that there are people in this world who suffer even more than i do. I’m not angry that my suffering isn’t seen as “the worst.” Instead, i feel sorry for those who suffer even more.
@ clevername:
I am adult and I don’t like the quantification of suffering you do. Suffering is always subjective. If an emo kid kills itself of course this is naive from an adult point of view. I’ve been through a cruel childhood, a brutal adolescence and a fucking rest and still I think that i can be totally justified from an inward perspective to kill oneself.
Only the coping mechanism differ. Adult suffering may be more severes one hand because of the deeper understanding of its totality but simultaneously this knowledge is the tool for relieve.
Would you suggest that all suffering of all degrees across the severity spectrum are “equal?”
If so, that’s quite absurd. If not, then you have to allow for “ranking.”
I disagree with the term “quantified” here, because there is no way to assign a specific value-unit to suffering… but it is certainly possible (and indeed advisable) to “rank” comparatively.
Example: which is worse: losing a child, or losing one’s own limb?
A broken bone, or a broken heart?
A broken body, or a broken mind?
Death by prolonged, gradual and inevitable deterioration, or by burning alive?
To “quantify” suffering, would be to assign a certain numeric value to it. I don’t think we can do that. But we can certainly say that an adult who has suffered 20+ years, is most likely suffering even more than, say, a teen who has suffered for less than 10 years.
Sure, it seems like “the sky is falling” when you’re young.
But when you’re older, you realize “the sky” was never even there to begin with; it was just an illusion, constructed to manipulate you into desirable behavior. And then you find yourself stuck in a world that sucks, which was built to suck for people who aren’t wanted, and don’t have resources to manifest the approval of others, and therefore wind up isolated and miserable… but this time, it’s no illusion.
You are right. I didn’t want to say all suffering is equal, but the inner desperation when comitting suicide is equal for it is the limit. It is not an objective limit, but a limit of survival will.
Romeo and Juliet is romantic, because we know it’s just a play and only means that they really loved each other. Everyone thinks, that’s nice, and leaves the play. No one has to look at the reality.
Real suicide is romantic in the same way that a compound fracture is romantic. Not.
it could be…
Suicide is illusion. True core of romance.