Pretty easy actually: The only reason for being alive, the so called ‘Meaning of Life’, is to spend your life together with other human beings. That’s what make’s life worth living, that’s what humans are made for. In all honesty, I cannot think of any other reason you should be stay alive, whether you’re religious or not.
Being shy destroys this very purpose of being alive; the impossibility to interact socially with other human beings. I have yet to fully understand what predetermines you to be shy, but once you’re at this stage it’s not possible to turn around and undo what has happened to you.
Thus the only question that remains is: Do you want to live without a purpose, without a meaning to your life? Do you want to live in this emptiness, float around in the universe like any other block of dead matter? Decide for yourself, I have already found my answer.
24 comments
I used to be shy, not anymore. I changed myself. However, I am still cautious around a lot of people until I know they are “OK”.
I am sorry to say, or not…idk, that I agree with you 100% I was always shy, timid…it really messed me up. Kept me from doing things in life. I understand where you are coming from.
u wana chat email, let me know
Thank you for your offer, I really appreciate it. But I am not sure where this would go, if this would help you and me.
And please (!) don’t take this personally: But talking to a stranger who you cant even see in person… I don’t know. I know there have been cases where bad guys used forums like this to get close to people only to get sensitive information and exploit them.
The only real reason to live, is this: “to do whatever you want, while you are alive to do so.”
If you can’t do what you want, then there is no sufficient reason.
Most of us cannot do what we want.
What better is there in life than to experience the selfless bond with somebody you’d go to the ends of the world for?
@clevername…. well said, I agree!
The answer for me is no, though I don’t suppose I have a choice but to endure it for a while.
Being shy sucks.
But shyness is not as distasteful as total reclusiveness
“to do whatever you want, while you are alive to do so.â€
I guess this is just a more abstract way of saying what I wrote: Because what is worth doing if you can’t share it with others?
“Because what is worth doing if you can’t share it with others?”
Right. But that’s exactly where i am, and have been for many years.
“Sharing with others” is off the table. I have nothing to share with others, and know no others who would value anything i could contribute to their life. So there are no others. There is only me. And without a rapid acquisition of material wealth, and then copious right choices and efforts guided into making myself a better “me,” there is never going to be an “other.”
People like me, have only the option to find something that’s “worth living for,” just for ourselves, because there is no option to have any kind of connection or companionship with anyone else.
So think about that.
Most of you, i think, have yet to face such a bleak reality. Some of you have, and i’m sure you know, all too well, exactly what i mean.
Honestly, there really isn’t much of anything worth living in isolation and solitude for. I know this, because i’ve thoroughly examined, in solitude, everything i can identify.
So once “sharing with others” is no longer a valid option, suicide seems to be the best choice, since enduring perpetual, inevitable suffering, for nothing worth living for, isn’t worth it.
Has very little, if anything, to do with being shy.
I’ve experienced shyness here and there, during the earlier parts of my life… but shyness tends to rapidly dissolve, along with various other inhibitions, once you realize death is the other option.
Why wouldn’t “copious right choices and efforts guided into making myself a better me” be worth efforts? Think about what your life could become after hard work. It is always easier to give up (and I must admit that I think about that a lot of times), fighting to become a better person is a real challenge, but I am doing this every day as well (although not successfully yet). But if you are able to change yourself the reward will be tremendous.
Because the results do not match the efforts.
If you knew me, you’d know that it’s actually not easier, for me, to give up. I have a tendency, a character flaw, if you will, that i am relentless, and will push until i either win or break. But i never win; i always break, instead. I push until i break, because quitting doesn’t accomplish anything. But for all my efforts, the results are that i am a broken failure, not a success.
You cannot know, and should not promise that “the reward will be tremendous.” I have 30+ years worth of experience that shows the contrary, and you have little or nothing to back your assertion, aside from wishful thinking and fantastical positivity.
Even my best efforts, poured into noble pursuits, will not yield the reward of worthy results.
Not all noble pursuits are worthy; not all worthy pursuits are noble.
Like that “johnwhogivesashit” recently commented: “if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.”
The only way i can “succeed” in this world, is to find a way to exploit other people, because that’s where money comes from, and money is required for almost all of what’s actually worth pursuing, even if “indirectly” required, as a necessary prerequisite to enable or facilitate other things that cannot be bought or sold.
So, hypothetically speaking, sure, self-improvement is “worth effort,” but is not feasible or even sufficient for everyone. Sometimes the right choices are simply inaccessible. Sometimes, maximum effort is not possible, or not sustainable. I can burst, but i can’t sustain maximum effort at all times. It’s just not possible anymore. Too much has gone wrong and stayed wrong for too long, despite all the effort i sank into prevention and maintenance and resolution. Now i’m too far gone to recover. Without recovery, growth and prosperity, my life cannot become worth living. And since it never was, and since there is no way for me to access what would make it become so, all effort results in futility… which is, by definition, not worth doing.
I don’t like criticizing people because they tend to take it personally. But in all honesty: It seems like you are not investing your heart in those efforts but rather derive logically at every situation whether the result will be worth the investment. First of all you cannot actually know how hard some efforts will be and how rewarding the outcome will be before you have lived through something like it. Secondly, feelings and emotions are not something that can be added up mathematically and then checked if the sum is positive or negative. Some things just cannot be compared: The happiness you get by having a loving wife, children, a fulfilling job will always be worth the effort no matter what that effort might be. And this is something that I can promise: Just remember the time you were a child, the time you spend with your family before the depressions started (I just hope and assume here that you had a good early childhood), how you had that feeling of belonging somewhere, of being loved and cared for, maybe even a specific Christmas with your family. That is something partners give each other and that is something parents give to their children. Just imagine yourself in that situation again, and think about how something trivial like that can make you infinitely happy.
Of course you will not know for sure whether the efforts of becoming a better person will definitely result in what I just said, but the possibility is there and it is not unlikely that it will happen. Life is never about only taking the paths that undoubtedly result in profit. You take risks, you fail, but you get back up and try again until it works out better.
In the end the decision lies with you; I can only try to help you get back up on your feet and make you keep fighting for your happiness. I cannot promise you that you will ever find what you are looking for, but I can promise you that if you do, the efforts will have been worth it. And don’t think that I am not able to help you because I am younger than you; I had the very luck of being born in a caring family that I would wish everyone to have, and I therefore know the happiness that is worth fighting for.
“It seems like you are not investing your heart in those efforts but rather derive logically at every situation whether the result will be worth the investment.”
You act like that’s wrong, because you believe in something that doesn’t exist. The only “correct” way toward success, is making the right choices. The right choices are the ones that produce the right results. If you can determine before acting, that your actions will not achieve desired results, then: A) you will avoid mistakes, B) you will avoid wasted time and energy, C) you can attempt to put that time and energy elsewhere.
My “heart,” is merely a muscular organ which automatically pumps blood through my circulation system, so that my cells continuously receive the oxygen they require to remain functional.
Literally, my “heart,” is in every single action i will ever do, because without the heart, i can’t do any actions.
But what you mean, is that you’re trying to insinuate that the only reason for my lack of success is that i don’t “want it bad enough,” which is ironically nearly identical to “believing hard enough.” But anyone with a semblance of understanding about reality knows: you cannot “just will something” into being. I know this for two reasons: no one has ever been seen doing this, and i have personally tried. It is impossible to manifest alterations into the material world, through sheer force of will, alone. We must instead examine the situation and determine which actions will be most effective in producing desired results, and then enact them. This is how reality works.
But then again, you are at least partially on target; none of what i could actually gain, is all that appealing to me. So, the extraordinary amount of effort which would be required for mostly insignificant and tragically insufficient gains, is “not worth it.”
No amount of “effort” can ever possibly make me “happy,” because some people, like me, can never become enough, no matter how hard they try, to access those things worth striving for.
I am never going to have my own family. I don’t think i even believe in love anymore. I think that it feels like it’s real, when it’s happening, and it feels horrible when someone ruins it for you, against your will… but ultimately, it’s all just chemicals. It’s no better than drugs, really, because “drugs” is exactly what “love” really is. It’s just brain chemicals making you feel good… but it’s only available when there is a person willing to mutually endeavor, with you, toward that end. But for me, there is no such person. So love is just a drug i can never access. That makes it nearly worthless to me. I cannot experience it, so it only exists for other people.
“First of all you cannot actually know how hard some efforts will be and how rewarding the outcome will be before you have lived through something like it.”
I can, and do. You cannot possibly know better than i do, about my experiences, and you have already demonstrated, many times, that your reasoning abilities are questionable at best.
I can, actually, know how hard many things are, because i have actually attempted them. I have seen the requirements, felt the process of experiencing the attempt, and can certainly compare the expectation of prolonged engagement of those activities, to the most reasonably expected results.
“Secondly, feelings and emotions are not something that can be added up mathematically and then checked if the sum is positive or negative. Some things just cannot be compared: The happiness you get by having a loving wife, children, a fulfilling job will always be worth the effort no matter what that effort might be.”
I can, actually. I know that if i primarily experience mostly agonizing strife and torment, but which never yields any significantly valuable results, then that is not a good investment of my being. I’m not going to intentionally persist in conditions which are unbearable, unfavorable, and cannot be reasonably expected to produce anything that is worth enduring all that.
All things can be compared; it’s just that sometimes those comparisons are irrelevant, or too abstract to discern any useful meaning. I know this. Why don’t you?
I will never have “wife, children, fulfilling job,” for various reasons. So whether *those things* are worth effort, is completely irrelevant to my situation. I agree those things would be worth effort, but they are irrelevant to me, because they are all beyond my reach.
So without THOSE things… what is worth effort? “Whatever i want to do…” could be an answer, but i find that without what i actually want, being possible for me, i don’t really care that much about anything else… except that i want to not hurt anymore. Eliminating all the inevitable gainless pains required by merely existing, is the next best thing… because i don’t want anything else enough to be worth all the suffering i apparently cannot sufficiently minimize.
There is nothing that can actually be gained by my efforts, which would actually be worth the amount of agony required to reach it.
YOU will not know whether my efforts will result in worthwhile gains… but i can, indeed, know whether my efforts will NOT result in what would be worth enduring to gain.
I am apparently able to understand things you cannot. I’m not saying that to come off as superior, it’s just true.
You obviously don’t know what it’s like to be broken. You obviously don’t know what it’s like to be able to calculate your own time and energy, against all possible outcomes, and find that success is actually mathematically impossible. You don’t know how that feels, because of impaired reasoning, due to your insistence upon believing what is impossible and fantastical, could actually be real.
Believing in impossible things, makes you, and others like you, unable to understand some of the things that come quite naturally to me. Understanding these things requires almost no effort on my part; explaining them in a way you could understand, seems impossible, even with maximum effort.
I’ve tried, but you don’t get it.
And as hard as it is for me to give up, that’s what i have to do, because continued persistence against futility, is literally not worth my time, and causes more discomfort than the degree to which i am willing to continually subject myself.
So, you see… i cannot even “hope” that anyone will ever understand. If i allow myself to hope for what is impossible, i will only suffer more, and only achieve more disappointment and failure. I’m not interested in pursuing even more of that. So i need to figure out if there’s any way that i missed, which can actually achieve the minimum worthwhile gains. If not, i have to quit life, even though that isn’t what i wanted. Quitting is better than suffering indefinitely, for that which cannot occur.
Why can’t you accept that I am not trying to hurt you or to make you feel worth?
I realized that you disagree with religion that is why I did not mention it here. Everything I said is the same with or without religion. Also I am just going to ignore your personal affronts against me since that is not leading anywhere.
Like you, I used to think everything can be argued about and you can always come to a logical explanation and solution. It leads to thinking in black and white. But I realized that despite the fact that that may be true it will not make you happier. You think that logic and rational thinking is the “ultimate” meaning of life, that the target of every human is to strip themselves of emotions and only act according to mere logic. But there is something more important than logic: Happiness. Just think about it. Logic will not only not affect your happiness, it will even hinder it. Look at the life of any of the famous philisophers: They always started like you, thinking that reasoning and logic is the ultimate force that drives us humans. But every single one of them realized that there is more to a life than that.
You are a smart person and I guess you often see “not as smart” persons when you walk through public. Doesn’t it make you wonder why many of them are happy, despite their obvious lack of reasoning ability?
Logic is limited to the capabilities of the human brain and to the lack of knowledge about every single parameter. You can’t reasonably think that every decision you make can be solved with logic. Love (i.e. happiness) has nothing to do with logic. It is – like you said – chemicals. But what is the problem about that? Every emotion is chemicals, you are only chemicals and chemical reactions, but you said it is possible to have a meaning in a life despite the fact that everything is just chemicals. Then why do you say that love as a chemical is not a meaning of life?
I guess it all comes down to a simple question: Are you willing to draw back logic for you to be happier?
Removing logic from the equation would only add further hindrance to the ability to make acceptable choices, and decrease my ability to avoid mistakes, and reduce my ability to craft solutions for problems i don’t cause, but am still impacted by.
Logic is a requirement. It’s intriguing that so many people seem so against it, as if it should be demonized.
I also think it’s rather presumptuous of you to assume that you know what i think is “the meaning of life.” Life has no meaning. Even with reason, logic, and rationality. You can make any meaning you want, if you want, but life does not come with an innate meaning. It doesn’t actually “mean” anything at all. It just occurs, and we try to do what we will with it, while it transpires.
And no, not everything is black and white. But some things are. Using thought razors is not wrong. Sometimes a thing cannot be both things at once. And if it is both, then it is neither black nor white, but is instead, gray, as that is the result of the mixture of both extremes.
Making the choices that lead to the results i desire, is the only way i could ever be “happy.” But according to all available information, those choices are not available to be made.
Think of a multiple choice test:
What do you do, if the “correct” choice, is not a selectable option? Choose the least wrong thing? But if you do that, you’re still not making the RIGHT choice… and so the results still cannot justify the least-wrong choice. It’s still wrong, even if it’s pretty close.
For you to insinuate that abandoning logic is the only path to happiness, is completely absurd. Logic, reason, rationality, are the only ways to figure out how to make the correct choices, and those correct choices, if available, are the only valid path to happiness. Unless, of course, you’re “one of those” who ultimately sits back and waits for prayers to be answered, and happens to have some sort of aesthetic advantage that makes people want to give you things, and has them begging for your company. That’s not reality. That life is only available for a relatively few people.
If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
If you have to do everything yourself, that’s too many things to figure out, and takes too much time and energy to enact, and cannot be indefinitely sustained.
I never said “reason and logic are the ultimate driving force.”
I do say those things are the most effective methods to create solutions to all the problems those same things could have avoided, if everyone used them.
But only some of us even bother, while the rest go on wrecking the world through blind faith, while in utter denial about all the havoc and needless suffering they’ve created for others.
I know it is paradoxical that I am trying to explain logically to you why logic should not always be used. I can’t, that is why it looks so absurd to you and that is why I cannot convince you of my point of view. It is less the actual “use” of logic than the fact that you are applying it to every single aspect of your life. Friendship, love, happiness can hardly be achieved logically.
Just see how many people are happy without being intelligent. Even the “dumbest idiot” you can think of will probably be happier than you. There is no problem with being stupid but happy.
Apart from the logic thing, it seems like you are not willing to open yourself to other/ happier ways of living. Not intentionally of course, I know you want all that depression to end, but your heart (not the organ) is filled with hatred and frustration and it blinds you what can possibly make you feel better.
I beg you not to answer logically to this post. Just try to speak through your heart, your emotions, intuitively. Because what could you possibly lose by doing so? No one will judge you.
See, you’re trying to gloss over the fact that your intention is to demonize logic, and to declare that my use of it is incorrect, even though i already explained why it’s right.
You keep insisting it’s wrong for me to “take stock” and “examine” my own life. I bet if i didn’t use the word “logic,” you’d be advising me to do exactly that.
I can’t have friends, because i don’t see anyone i actually want to befriend, AND, because none of who can see me, wants to befriend me. Sure, we can say i have a few “internet friends,” but it’s not the same. Plus, i can’t really be a good friend, so i don’t go around seeking attention from people i think are cool. I just let them do their own thing, and compliment or praise them when i see them do something i like. Besides, “friends,” while nice to have, sometimes, is not the thing that will create my happiness. “Friends” is not what i am looking for. It’s not what i crave. It’s not what i need. And, it’s very unlikely that i will be able to have any, due to the way the world works.
I can’t have “love,” because i cannot achieve the prerequisites, partly because of the manifestation of my genetics, and partly because of my inability to acquire a surplus of resources. I have nothing to offer, nothing valuable to share, and so there is no one to share anything with.
My own happiness can only be achieved logically, because i already know what would be required to produce that effect. But it is impossible, because i already know that i cannot do what is required to produce that effect.
And yes, there is indeed a problem with being “stupid but happy.” Stupid people both cause and contribute to the perpetuation of problems that can only be solved by not being stupid. Resolving my misery is far more important to me, than sustaining any stupid person’s happiness, at my own expense. But i can’t do it, because there are too many stupid people, happily perpetuating what i need to solve. I’m outnumbered by idiots. No amount of intelligence can account for being marginalized by countless drones, blissfully following orders they should rightly be refusing, but are not smart enough to understand that they should do so.
Not willing to open up to alternatives? Hah!
Okay, tell me what makes me happy. Go ahead, i’ll wait.
Actually, nevermind. I’ve already wasted enough of my life waiting for what will never happen.
What could i lose? Time and Energy that cannot be replenished, in pursuit of something which cannot be gained!
A) i don’t really give a damn whether anyone judges me
B) everyone judges everyone, unless they are incapable of discernment, in which case i don’t particularly care what they think, unless they are doing something to negatively impact my life.
My counter to your “what could you possibly lose?” is this:
What could i possibly gain?
What could you possibly offer, in exchange for my efforts?
More arbitrary argumentation which leads nowhere forever?
If i had a dime for every time someone tried to demand i believe something stupid or impossible, i’d be rich. And then i’d be happy, because i’d be able to afford to do and participate in the things that actually make life worth living.
But without those gains, it’s not worth dealing with; ie: not worth tolerance. I like to avoid things that cannot gain what i want. I have already lost way too much time over stuff that never had any potential to produce desirable results, and it’s because of stuff like *this,* where people insist on insisting that i’m wrong, when i already know, have already known for a very long time, that i’m not. And it’s so infuriating that i can’t help but try to explain… which is a huge waste of time, because anyone who needs it explained, has already decided to never understand, thereby nullifying all efforts given to explanations.
Nothing but blatantly disruptive obstructions and obfuscation, can be gained, by attempting to communicate with people who have already decided to never understand anything that might contradict their preferred fantastical beliefs. Therefore: i refuse to tolerate people like that, because all they ever do is waste my time and cause me more pain. And no one can convince me that i should tolerate such reprehensible squandering of my time, through their blatantly willful ignorance and rejection of reason.
First of all, your answer is logical, so it is not where I intended to push the conversation.
“Time and Energy that cannot be replenished, in pursuit of something which cannot be gained!”
See? You don’t open up to other ways of living since in your opinion (an opinion which CANNOT be derived completely by logic) ALL other ways of living but yours are bullshit.
What could you possibly gain?
Happiness. Of course not directly after doing what I asked, but it is a first step. And I tell you because of my own experience. Experience is not something that I can share with you logically but you will have to believe me (I’m predicting your answer to this: “You’re stupid, anything that isn’t logical is a waste of my time.”)
What could I possibly offer to you, in exchange for your efforts?
Wrong question. You want to invest something into this and expect an imminent reward. Ever thought about doing something for others without being repayed? (your answer: “You’re stupid, investing effort into something without being repayed is stupid”)
Talking about the “worker drones”: Even if what you are saying is right (If you are interested: My opinion about that is not as drastic as yours.) the “worker drones” are still happier than you. The evolutionary-driven “target” of everyone’s live is happiness through whatever means, it is NOT being no worker-drone. They are happy. You are not. I don’t get my head around the fact how someone like you can deny this.
So you’re saying that whatever makes idiots happy, is the way everyone should be.
lol.
Obviously there is nothing for me to gain, and i have nothing to offer that you could value.
Hint: only what matters to ME, is important in MY LIFE. Sometimes that includes others, sometimes it doesn’t.
Do you understand yet?
“So you’re saying that whatever makes idiots happy, is the way everyone should be.”
I never said that. But it is empirical evidence that more idiots (you said/ implied that the majority of human kind are idiots) are happy than smart people are happy. So the only logical implication of that is to stop thinking logically and you are more probable to be happy than when you are acting logically.
Tell me why I am wrong.
You’re contriving a false correlation between mostly unrelated data, while ignoring all other possible interpretations. But you don’t see that as a problem for yourself, while levying accusations at me, citing that particular factor as “the problem.”
You assume that more stupid people are happy *because they are stupid.* But that is not the case. Those who are happy, are happy because things go well enough for them. Some people are lucky enough that all they have to do is go with the flow, and things just work out. Whether they’re smart or stupid, has little to do with that. The problem manifests when “going with the flow” stops working. When that happens, stupid people have no idea how to even begin to attempt corrections, while smart people at least understand their options, and can attempt to put their efforts into the right (ie: effective) solutions. But when there are no available effective solutions, smart or stupid doesn’t matter much, except that smart people KNOW they are out of options, while stupid people are more likely to resort to “prayer” and “hope.” (neither of which are effective solutions, which makes both a waste of energy)
Ceasing logical thought is highly unwise, and will most probably lead to bad decisions and encountering otherwise avoidable detriments.
If i want to stop experiencing the stuff that bothers me, i have two options:
1) become rapidly wealthy, and accept a partial solution
2) kill myself
“You assume that more stupid people are happy *because they are stupid.*”
In your case, yes.
Just to sum things up: You naively think that you know every single parameter necessary to make a correct decision. You also naively think that your brain is then capable of combining the tremendous amount of parameters to produce the only correct result, which will be your decision.
And due to your cognitive dissonance you don’t even realize that. The possibility that logic – which means so much to your life – will not make you happy seems so impossible to you that you don’t even realize how probable it is.