Hello All,
This is my first post here and it will be my only. As my time in this “reality” is going to end in about 3 hours. I am not going to write a note and just wanted one final message of my thoughts to be delivered somewhere in the world. Maybe someday..somehow it will be received by people that know me.
As i sit here thinking about death. An overwhelming calming and peacefulness is sinking into my body. Everyday I go through out the day counting down the seconds for when I get to close my eyes and drift away into the solitude of the night. Every night I pray that I wont have to open my eyes again to this hell. Excitement fills every limb, muscle, and nerve in my body knowing that this next time my eyes close  they will never have to go through the ever increasing pain of opening again. I think of this day as not the final chapter of me, but more as a rebirth of my soul into whatever the next domain has to offer.
I wish people will realize that they should not mourn me being gone but embrace and celebrate the release of my pain and the forever calming I will be experiencing.
Decemeber 19th, 2013. 9:11 am
DG
126 comments
I worry about what awaits in the afterlife. I too want to end my life and escape the never ending pain that I’m enduring every moment. But what if… there really is a hell? There will be no escape from there and surely the torment and suffering will be much worse than we are currently trying to escape from. Just a thought…
Caged has it right………. you are taking an eternal risk, really. If you dont believe in God, you still take the same risk, and what if whatever you are entering into is something hellish you cant even comprehend? You might wish you are back here, to have “stuck it out”, until your natural time.
Its an extremely serious risk. There is no coming back.
Are you REALLY willing to possibly endure a real hell, maybe burning, suffering beyond imagine, creatures, who knows what.
We simply dont know.
God will forgive us…we are his children.
@WIG: that is exactly why people dislike christians….its because you act like your god is the correct one….YOU are taking the same risk as her by not worshiping any of the other 1000 gods that could be the right one you might end up in hell right with them…so quit touting that bullshit like its legitimate…keep your religious dogma and fear tactics to yourself….I’m sure they are already aware of everything you are saying
Anyone who thinks heaven and hell are “places” that “exist” after people die really needs to get off the spiritual playground and do some serious deprogramming.
I don’t really care what established dogma you believe, telling people about the risk of burning in hell for not believing is moronic. No one I talk to about eschatology believes Pascal’s wager is meaningful because it makes no distinction between the true believer and the person who believes as a practical matter.
Beliefs themselves are the most powerful demons in this world. The god of Abraham or Jehovah or whatever you want to call “him” was, according to the old testament, a genocidal maniac that only the likes of Stalin and Hitler would envy. I’m not going to bother quoting the verses. Grow up. Read some Ralph Waldo Emerson. Anything that might stimulate independent thought.
Wifeisgone: Even though I know the reason you’re saying what you’re saying here is that you’ve accepted an assumption that clearly others have rejected in favor of some other assumption, I don’t think it makes sense to use the whole, “You might go to Hell!” argument. I mean, if there’s a place worse than this life, that’d be pretty insane. Furthermore, if god wanted to punish people for having a shitty, horrible life, that’d be even more insane. At least that’s how it looks if you’ve rejected the assumption of the Christian god.
Or, you might find oblivion, and not even exist to be aware of lacking any awareness.
Or, you might be immediately reincarnated into a new being, with no memory of any prior existence.
My “wager” is the opposite of Pascal’s: i “wager” that not believing in what doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t obviously (note: not “obviously doesn’t”) exist, isn’t something an all-knowing, all-loving god would ever punish, since he would also necessarily be aware of both my fallibility, and also his own Choice to refrain from using his own limitless power to show me anything that would cause me to believe. So, if he exists, either he doesn’t want me to believe, or he doesn’t mind if i don’t. And if he doesn’t, then there is nothing to worry about, and no reason to fear any punishment. And if i’m wrong, and there is a god who expects a fallible being to believe despite sheer lack of evidence, and would be upset if i don’t… then that’s just unfortunate, and there’s nothing i can really do about that, because belief isn’t something i can just “decide.” I perceive “belief” as rather involuntary. It either happens and stays, or happens and then goes away, or never happens in the first place. I also think it’s wrong to allow oneself to believe anything that isn’t evidenced, because allowing such a thing, opens the door to all sorts of exploitation by others, and there are many in this world who base their entire life strategies on deceiving others who are “gullible,” or who are easily mislead in directions which may benefit the deceiver.
It’s the same reason i can’t just go around trusting everyone; i know there are people out there who will absolutely take any and every advantage given, and i’ve been taken advantage of quite enough already, so i’ve adjusted my mindset accordingly, so that it will be nearly, if not impossible, for anyone to truly deceive me, unless i allow them to do so, by believing something without sufficient consideration of all available information.
But still, “believers” might not be able to change their minds. If “belief” is as involuntary as i suspect, then no amount of information to the contrary will change it, and so to argue either way, would be a futile endeavor. And just like i hate believing anything that isn’t true, i also hate wasting time on impossible pursuits. I like my beliefs to be true, and will change them to accommodate whatever the evidence shows… just like i will change my actions to direct my energy into something that can actually be accomplished.
It comes down to suffering. People (including me) dont want to suffer, its natural to expect and want at least a decent happy life.
Whether someone rejects A, B,C, whatever,,,, doesnt change what actually is, whatever “it” is.
There is a reality,, someone has it right, someone has it wrong.
God made this world, everything we see and cant see.
God also stated that this world belongs to evil (satan) and his angels.
Thus, you cant expect there to be no suffering.
God sent his Son Jesus to save us not from THIS world, but what is next.
Thats why He said “I am the way and Life”. Jesus is God as man, come to earth for the purpose of saving our soul, not us physically. Jesus cured the sick, etc, but He didnt make it a full time job because that wasn’t His mission.
I believe God punishes people who outright reject Him, and this is stated in the Bible. Those who accept Jesus as their Savior, are saved. It isnt about just saying a prayer, but rather where your heart is.
You (all of us) either serve 1 of 2 masters,,,,,, God or satan.
There is no in-between.
Just as there is only night and day.
Or, you might be immediately reincarnated into a new being, with no memory of any prior existence.
<——reincarnation…… its a bunch of shit, just based on the fact that there are already more people living now than ever before.
If reincarnation was a reality, there would have been a "set" number to begin with.
And of course, there are a lot of other reasons its not accurate.
I’d wager that no matter what happens after this life is over, it’s irrelevant in the face of present experience. Whatever happens, I’ll find out when I get there. I’d rather focus on living better right now.
““believers†might not be able to change their minds. If
“belief†is as involuntary as i suspect, then no amount of
information to the contrary will change it, and so to argue either
way, would be a futile endeavor. And just like i hate believing
anything that isn’t true, i also hate wasting time on impossible
pursuits. I like my beliefs to be true, and will change them to
accommodate whatever the evidence shows… just like i will
change my actions to direct my energy into something that can
actually be accomplished.”
Well well Clevername, it sounds like you have finally attained enlightenment. 😉 Just be sure to remember these thoughts in the future.
Believers can change their mind if they allow themselves to doubt, and allow logic to overcome their blind faith. Otherwise, it’s no use trying to convince anyone to drop their religion. When people try to talk about religion to me, I just dismiss them. I don’t get into arguments anymore. It’s pointless. If somebody wants to live their life in fear of hell, fine. All I know is that I will do whatever I want, as long as I’m not hurting anyone else.
WIG: What if reincarnation were not anything to do with mystical spiritual mumbojumbo and merely a representation of the idea that all things are made up of the same stuff? It actually sounds reasonable as hell to me, if understood that way.
People buy insurance as a form of protection in case something bad happens. I think of Christianity as a type of fire insurance. People who are ruled by fear and superstition “buy” God because they’re afraid of the “known unknown”.
It must be a drag going through life ruled by fear, expecting some great reward after death.
“After your death you will become what you were before your birth”. -Schopenhauer.
reincarnation is just as likely as the existence of any god. There is no valid evidence to show either of those ideas are actually true. There is no way to legitimately discern which of those is correct, or if either of them are correct.
There is only whatever your experiences cause you to believe, according to the information you’ve received, and the way your mind works.
I’m a rationalist. You’re not. But we have no way of determining anything we cannot observe, and so “belief” is the only possible method of reaching any tentative conclusion. As a rationalist, i know i cannot change your mind with evidence, because your beliefs contradict any evidence i could raise. So that means that any argument is a waste of time, because the desired result cannot be reached, until or unless you become willing to consider that your beliefs could be incorrect. If you can’t go down that road, then facts don’t matter, and i should try not to give you a hard time about it; just like you should try not to give anyone else a hard time about something you believe, but cannot provide any evidence to support.
You cannot possibly “know” that hell, heaven, or any god, actually exists. So you shouldn’t be insisting it does. But you do, and many who share your beliefs do the same. That was Pain’s point.
And so, to avoid futile endeavors like impossible arguments with people who cannot allow themselves to understand anything that conflicts with their paradigm, i prefer to avoid and not associate with anyone who embraces such beliefs. It’s just the rational thing to do. Unfortunately, that dramatically reduces the amount of people i could possibly encounter and find a mutual enjoyment in their company. But i didn’t do that; religion did that. Not my fault, but at my cost, as well as that of others like me.
@Persephone: Doubt. I think that’s the universal key to finding any sort of truth. Without doubt, you might accept the most ludicrous things to be true just because they pop into your head. We’d still be in the stone-age without doubt.
We are all made up of the same stuff.
Whats in your body was somewhere else at one time, all of you, all of you EXCEPT spirit.
The spirit is what differentiates us from everything else.
Your spirit/concisousness continues on…. as a whole,,,, “someplace” else.
I have seen the argument of “past recognition of lives” as an argument for reincarnation…… in reality it is a familiar spirit that has channeled that info via a willing person.
Um, even the Bible has a layout that is way beyong human comprehension, just in format alone……… it gets very technical. Call it “Gods signature” 🙂
I think the idea of the spirit is best understood as a metaphor for special character – whatever stuff it is that makes you feel like you’re different from that other guy over there. But to be honest here, I’m not so sure there really is much of a difference between characters, aside from the fact that you are confined to a narrow band of perspective and cannot imagine what it’s like to be that other guy over there. Just as he can’t imagine what it’s like to be you.
@Lorax Hahaha. Exactly. Doubt is what has caused us to advance as a species. It’s silly for us to accept any scientific theories as irrevocable truth even now, when we realize that there is so much more we could learn.
“…even the Bible has a layout that is way beyong human comprehension, just in format alone……… it gets very technical.”
I disagree, and posit that the bible was written by humans from 2k years ago, in the absence of any actual god, which “proves” that the format of the bible is indeed within the capacity of human comprehension, since it was, actually, composed *by* humans.
And if you argue that “they didn’t understand what they were creating,” well then i think that invalidates the entire religion.
each person is unique in both spirit as well as physical make up.
Another reason the idea that the bible is beyond human comprehension is the fact that it’s written in words, and we can read them, granted a knowledge of the languages involved. Now, if you don’t know Hebrew or Koine Greek, reading the original manuscripts might be beyond your comprehension, but there are English translations available, after all.
hmm…
something looks wonky in that post. I meant to suggest that the idea of the bible being beyond human comprehension makes no sense.
you just need to do some “homework” on that topic, you will be proven wrong.
And, actually the Bible is comprised of many books written over several thousand years. All past, current, and future events are in it.
And thats not all of it…… there is much more.
The numbering, perfection in its topics, and a lot of other topics…..
It certainly proves it was not organized by people.
The Bible was written BY people viz inspiration of God
ever hear of the “bible codes” for one thing?
Thats only a small fraction of “Gods calling card” within it.
The Bible is a work of fiction written by scholars and historians of the time. That is all.
Anyone who believes the countless contradictions in the bible “make sense,” and that a perfect super-being would so frequently contradict himself, isn’t trying hard enough.
@Wifeisgone: You realize that the division of chapters and verses is an artificial addition created by the people who transcribed biblical texts by hand, right? It was useful to help organize the information and divide the labor involved in doing so, and in reality does not exist in the original codices. Even the division of old testament and new testament is completely arbitrary.
alll scripture was written by man, inspired by God.
The Bibles organization is inspired by God.
Everything christians do is “inspired by god.” Or more accurately: inspired by their embracing of the idea of god.
(note: using the term “everything,” quite loosely…)
Sure, WIG – let’s say I agree with you. The division of chapters, as an example, though, has caused all sorts of stupid misunderstandings when it comes to what the Bible says. People see a chapter has ended and feel the next chapter will be the start of a different, separate subject, when in reality the original codice is just one long, undivided string of text. There are about a million problems this has and will continue to cause when it comes to understanding what the Bible says. It’s most apparent in the books of 1 & 2 Kings, and 1 & 2 Samuel – just treat the chapters as though they don’t exist and are long strings of text, don’t pay any attention to the verse numbers, and I guarantee you’ll be shocked how differently you’ll understand what’s being said. Maybe God did inspire it, but people get confused incredibly easily.
No, in fact, most who claim to be a Christian are anything but.
Isn’t that like saying there are no true Scotsmen? Who are the true Christians and where may I find them?
Literally, there are no “true Christians”. Just people who are striving to live like Jesus did. The word “Christian” just means that you are baptized. Whether you are a “good” Christian or “better” than another Christian is a totally different question.
What defines a True Christian is how they live and what they believe. For instance, not preaching A and doing B.
Well if hypocrisy makes any christian a non-true-christian, then there are indeed far fewer than i previously estimated.
thats the first comment you made that actually makes sense and is correct 🙂
congrats!!!!
@Wifeisgone: With so many damn denominations out there, and so many different ways to interpret the Bible, it’s going to get messy trying to figure out who the True Christians are.
@WIG: can I ask you one thing? The bible is god word correct? do you think he would give humans the ability to add whatever they wanted to it and remove books from it?
The Bible interprets itself.
Attempts by man have really screwed it all up. (thus the different denominations).
http://kingjamescode.org
see this site. (I especially want you, clever name, to see it). 😉
Anything done to a genuine Bible would have to be from God, inspired.
There have been a lot of recent messes made of the Bible, such as the NIV, suited for a corrupt world (aka standing up for gay rights, etc.).
“Anything done to a genuine Bible would have to be from God, inspired.”
“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.…”
Not only does this verse invalidate what you said but my next question is….how do you know if the words are TRULY his if the book ITSELF tell you that it is possible for it to be edited?
lol
Was it cyanidesofmarch, or C4, or Dawg, who posted the thing mathematically breaking down the total number of souls which would have to exist, in order to explain the ~100+ billion humans who have either lived and died, or are alive now?
I don’t think it “logically follows” to suggest that the mere “number” of humans existing, has any relevant or discernible bearing on whether reincarnation is possible… unless you insist that there are a finite number of souls, but without any way of determining what that finite number may be.
There could be a million-billion-trillion souls, for all we know. How would we know?
Anyone who takes the bible literally is as stupid as a suicide-bomber killing others because of the Quran.
And here’s an interesting thought:
If there are an infinite number of souls, and most souls “go to hell,” then OMFG hell must be incredibly powerful by now! The ratio must be *at least* 10:1. Probably closer to 100:1. Couldn’t the legions of doom somehow find a way to turn all those souls into immeasurable evil power, and then overthrow god-himself?
Gay rights is a political issue. Saying the Bible is opposed to that is just as confusing as saying the gospels are replete with promotions of capitalism and admonishments against socialism. It’s anachronistic and a practice of missing the point.
Nope.
God created a place for the evildoers……..sort of like a cage.
An eternal cage with no exit.
🙂
Gpd created male and female, one for the other. Homosexuality goes against both naurala nd Gods’ law. It has no legitimate place in Gods’ eyes.
The only reason you see it running rampant today is because we are in the days predicted to have it as such (as in the days of Noah, when the earth was full of filth and disgust to God before He “cleaned house”) as the word will once again soon find itself facing. 😉
@clever: back when I was all, “OMG Hell!” and stuff, I loved C.S. Lewis’s take on what Hell’s like – the damned just have no clue they’re even dead and wander around a bleak landscape acting the same way they did towards each other in life. The Great Divorce – great reading, even for secular folks. It’s just good writing. Napoleon was in Hell in that book, but he was so incredibly far away from where the newbies were that they’d probably never be able to get to him, granted that Hell was expanding a lot like the universe is and the damned were like the stars in the sky.
The world was predicted to be in this condition just before Jesus came back to clean it all up (and rid it of the mess, and yes, that includes all of the filth associated with homosexuality).
WifeisGone – couldn’t they just leave through the entrance?
@WIG: God did create male and female, but the bible indicates that government is itself a willful act of disobedience towards the true king of Heaven and Earth, so why would the issue of gay rights even be relevant to Christian faith? That’s like saying, “We demand a king!” You know, like the Israelites did to Samuel? If God hates the gays, let him have his authority and power and don’t try to usurp it.
Anyone who takes any kind of supernatural lore in a literal sense and interprets it as real is pathetically gullible and is the perfect example of what any kind of manipulative dogma produces: a simpleminded, obsequious conformist who lacks any kind of creativity or ability to think for themselves. It’s sad that religion still exists in such a modern age filled with readily available information which religion was established to substitute for. Religion is an outdated practice that should have been made obsolete a long time ago. Just grow up for fuck’s sake, are you really saying there’s a magical man in the sky that watches everything you do and will send you to a fiery hole in the ground if you misbehave? Listen to yourself
@ClairDelune: Says “Anyone who takes the bible literally is as stupid as a suicide-bomber killing others because of the Quran.”
Also says “I am a christian”
I can only deduce that this is a clear cut example of cognitive dissonance.
ok so, if this is all just temporary and illusory… why are our actions so important as to justify “eternal” consequences?
How does temporary justify eternity?
Is it because god’s mad at me for something that happened thousands of years before i was born? Why wouldn’t he just smite the right people, at the right time, and be done with it? Why thousands of years of baiting people into a very confusing and high probability that billions more will “accidentally” end up in hell?
As Christians, we are not to embrace the filth of homosexuality. It doesnt mean hate gays. I in fact, still respect all and treat gays well too, just as I would like to be treated. I don’t judge people, but I do judge the filth they can produce.
your question was already answered before in an earlier post,,,,,
because this world belongs to satan, not God.
God doesn’t hate anyone, “not even the gays”. Although he says that being gay is something wrong, this does not entitle us to be intolerant vs homosexual people. Therefore I think we have to give the same rights to gays (not concerning children though since we don’t have definite proof that they don’t get any disadvantages because of their parents).
@clevername: God only sends those to hell who will continue to sin eternally.
@PainNlife: Where exactly does that contradict? I don’t believe God created the world 6000 years ago, that Christ was actually born on 24th of December, that Adam and Eve were the first humans to live. But I believe in “loving others as you love yourself” etc.
Okay, I have a question. Why do we get such a limited time on earth and then have to spend an *eternity* floating on a cloud or in the fiery “underworld”? Isn’t that a bit excessive? At some point can’t they say “time served”? Is there an unlimited amount of space in these places? It’s probably pretty crammed by now, right? Oops… that was more than one question.
You accepting God as your Savior is what justifies your future in a peaceful place.
All who do not, serve the “other one”.
And God has a place for those who serve the “other one”, the one who rules this world.
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. Leviticus 20:13”
Does that mean lesbians get off the hook?
Its funny because Christians will tell you that as long as you are married…”anal sex and oral sex” are okay….so you mean to tell me god is obsessed with whether you have a penis or vagina while doing it? Tell me what is so “filthy” about it without the extra biblical crap…don’t tell me it is “not natural” because then that means you do not know what natural means
So why would god want us all to be born in “satan’s world?” Isn’t that sort of like being declared guilty without any trial?
@Pain:
My only response to that is that feces is gross, and is a known vector of disease.
Coz God didnt want us to live here forever, it wasn’t meant to be. Our bodies die, the spirit lives on in a different place. To say God doesn’t “give credit” for “time served” is wrong, He very well can. In fact, if I had to pay for something I did here on this earth, Id rather do it here, not on the other side.
As for space? There is no limit as to how big another world can be. Just to use an analogy take the sun, you can fit several million earths in it. They there are suns a lot bigger than ours. ,,,,Crowded? Maybe, maybe not.
@WIG How is homosexuality ‘filth’? Are you a prude? Do you hate sex? Do you hate love? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to love and/or have sex with whichever gender they chose, as long as it’s legal and consensual? It just doesn’t make sense to me that people would be against actions which are fine with both parties involved, as long as they’re both of legal age (or if they’re both teenagers). Plenty of Christians nowadays have changed their stance against homosexuality. Hell, even the current Pope is in favour of it. If the Catholic Church itself is easing up on the livelihoods of same-sex-inclined people, that should tell you something.
Oh, it does tell me something,,,,, it tells me exactly what was predicted lomg ago is finally again here….. right before God shows who runs the show.
(and there shall be a great falling away, when they do not endures sound doctrine).
Aka the “last days”, complete with all of the other signs (you ought to look them up) 😉
Okay… but if “all this is satan’s doing,” then why would god punish US for that? Aren’t we all just fallible inferior creatures who usually don’t know any better?
Would it not be better to punish the deceiver, rather than the deceived?
What stops god from punishing satan? Isn’t he supposed to be “all-powerful?”
Or, is satan doing /exactly/ what god wants him to do, and tricking people into choosing to side with evil, so that he can excuse himself from admitting them into his kingdom?
@ClairDelune: Jesus in the bible said the word of the bible is inerrant …therefore you cannot call yourself a christian if you do not buy ALL the bullshit…you can’t buy half of it no you have to buy the whole thing….they say that if any part of the Bible is suspect then all the Bible is suspect. For instance, if the Bible says something that is contrary to modern science then the whole Bible is suspect. If you say that only certain parts of the Bible are inspired by God or that only certain parts are true, then how do you know which parts are inspired or true and which parts aren’t inspired or true?
Are you somehow more connected to God than everyone else? I doubt it!
It would be better to say none of it is inspired rather than pick and choose….
You cannot be a christian without adhering to the bible….if you denounce the bible….how are you a christian?….thats tantamount to a Doctor claiming all the medical journals are wrong…yet still claims they are a doctor…lol
God created humans to have free will, to choose to either obey His laws, or to go the “other way”.
But, He gave us a way out of eternal death (soul death) via Jesus.
So, the answer to your question is really quite simple.
Its all about choice.
Were the Nazis not punished because Hitler led them?
God gives us free will and it wouldn’t be free will if we couldn’t also decide to do wrong things.
Well if he wants us to choose whatever we want, in “satan’s world,” then why would we be punished for doing exactly that, and choosing whatever we want?
The Bible doesnt contradict what God created, thus it doesnt contradict science.
The Nazis were punished because of their evil deeds.
They willingly did their “work”, and are now suffering their eternal pain in the afterlife.
@Wifeisgone: It belongs to Satan? I’m pretty sure when Jesus said that, he was referring to the human capacity to attempt to usurp authority from God via government. That would explain a lot about why the Romans had him nailed to a cross and all that. “Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar’s,” didn’t end there – that’s a comma… it goes on to say, “…and rend unto God what is God’s.” Everything is God’s, according to the Bible. Even Satan. Even you. Even round bits of metal with an image of Caesar printed on it.
Free will? How is it free if you are punished eternally for committing any of the “sins” or for not accepting Jesus as your lord and savior? Sounds like a trap to me…
Because Gods laws are for this world, again,,, free choice…..so you have knowledge of A or B
@PainNlife: The intentions behind the bible are inerrant. As you said the bible was written by humans lead by God, so why should God tell them that the universe was created 13.7 billion years ago? Or anything scientific for that matter? Again: It is the intentions and concepts that count, not the actual meaning of every single word.
@WIG: “4 corners of the earth” “sun revolves around earth” “millions of animals and insects fitting into a boat” etc etc
Its not a trap. Its an invitation.
Just like any invitation, you exercise free will when choosing A or B
Huh. Let’s press pause really quick.
She’s a witch!!! She turned me into a newt!!! …I got better.
The Bible doesn’t mention Jesus’ adolescence or early adulthood. Some historians speculate the reason why this chapter of his life isn’t chronicled is because Jesus went through a gay phase. He wore dresses, played with dolls, and danced with men.
The writers of the Bible omitted Jesus’ gay adventures because he was already controversial enough.
we all know there are no corners of the earth, sun revolved around earth etc.
bad science.
@TheGoodGirl: Anyone who – with his free will – decides to believe in God, knows that if you sin and don’t regret it you will be punished. Anyone who decides not to believe in God in the first place doesn’t believe in eternal hell anyways, so he actually has a free choice.
@C4: There is no evidence at all that would indicate that “Jesus was gay”. If you believe he was, you are free to do so. But any Christian knows he wasn’t.
if you are ignorant to believe that, thats your free will.
@C4 Hahaha. I did always suspect that Jesus might have been a little bicurious. He was very fond of these two brothers… John and James, was it?
@C4: The bible doesn’t mention Jesus’ adolescence because clearly he had none. He was born, and the next day he turned into a 34 year old man.
@Clair Was Jesus asexual, then? They can’t say he was undoubtedly straight, he turned down Mary Magdalene down often enough. Word on the street is that she was pretty hawt, too.
@ClairDelune: “The intentions behind the bible are inerrant.” then how can the product of inerrant intentions possibly be wrong? How do you KNOW you are a christian? if you reject the bible then by what standard can you determine you are a christian? lol
” The word “Christian†just means that you are baptized. ” lol how do you know this? because of the dictionary? but “christians” existed prior to the dictionary…so websters got the definition of a “chrisitian” from….the ummm ….bible? but if it is wrong and you reject it….how can you determine you are a christian?…. AKA = cognitive dissonance
The only reason Christianity and the vast majority of religions do not condone suicide is because they all know there’s no heaven and it’s impossible to collect tithes from a corpse
bb in a bit.
@WIG: LOL thats my point YOUR bible says it is though ….you people don’t even read the shit you subscribe to
Yeah, we have a free choice, alright. Except that we’re supposedly going to be punished for that “free” choice.
@C4 lol
Goodbye OP
One only needs to look at the state of their world and be honest with themselves about themselves to realize that “God” is very much real. What else would a right/wrong polarity suggest?
@PainNlife: What exactly do you mean by “product of inerrant intentions”?
Anyone who is baptized can call themselves Christian. As to whether he acts like one is – like I said – a different question.
I don’t actually reject the bible, just the literal meaning (not the intention) of some text passages.
I am a Christian because I am baptized, and I hope I can call myself a “good Christian” because of what I do – but of course only God can decide about that.
@TheGoodGirl: For anyone who doesn’t believe in God, it actually is a free choice, since they believe they will never be “punished” for their sins.
Rumor has it those books that talk about those years were removed because they said jesus did some controversial things……I mean if he could turn water into wine…..I’m pretty sure he could turn grass into some pretty potent Mary Jane…..he isn’t called “the most high” for nothing 😉
@ClairDelune: Meaning the bible was produced by people who couldn’t be inerrant….
“I don’t actually reject the bible, just the literal meaning (not the intention) of some text passages.”
Jesus says the bible is inerrant…therefore…you’re calling jesus a liar and yourself a christian!? Blasphemy!
@Pain
We all know that Jesus was a pothead. No one is questioning the validity of that supposition. Jesus was probably a pretty chill dude. I can imagine him walking into the room, “Whoa guys, whoa. Chill out. You’re taking everything I said out of proportion.”
typo…I meant “who were inerrant” not “couldn’t be inerrant”
Percy: Man I’d love to have him at a party…the most potent alcohol and weed you can think of….and the best part is….no overdose! (he can heal too you know lol)
So what can come from this back and forth that could be seen as constructive?
Too many Christians disagree with other Christians, all the atheist/agnostic/etc others disagree with all the Christians, but the non-Christian camp most likely has its own share of internal disagreements, they just aren’t relevant at the moment.
We should get a huge mud-pit and release a bunch of pigs in there and try to catch them. Whoever catches the most pigs is right.
I can answer with what you just said: “The bible was produced by people who couldn’t be inerrant.”
Jesus word was passed on verbally by errant humans and then written into the bible by errant humans. So the sentence “The bible is inerrant” by Jesus may be errant in it’s literal meaning, because it was written by errant humans. The intention behind the sentence is still true.
Lorax… absolutely nothing.
@Lorax: well jesus did cast demons into the pigs….I’m sure they aren’t willing to go near anything having to do with him…so we win by default
If you say that the literal meaning of “The bible is inerrant†is that every word is correct and not that the intentions are correct. Otherwise my last post makes no sense.
@Pain Omg I know. Jesus would have been everybody’s best friend. I wonder what kind of music he would have liked today.
@clairdelune: How can you determine you are a Christian then? lol….if parts of the bible are errant …….. how do you discern what is and what isn’t?
@Clairdelune: “If you say that the literal meaning of “The bible is inerrant†is that every word is correct ” <—- yes this is exactly what I am saying….
@Percy: Probably anything talking about stoners ….definitely some snoop dogg and Wiz Khalifa
I think Jesus only got really mad at people who sold things in temples. He chased some folks around with a bullwhip and beat the hell out of them in a public square, then went on to tell people to stop trying to stone a prostitute. But he was also freaking awesome to have at parties – run out of booze and he’ll solve that problem in a snap. He really did sound like a cool dude to hang out with.
@Pain Do you think I could drag Jesus along to the nightclub? Would he dig dubstep/trap/DnB/house music? Ooh, I bet he would love Jamaican/Caribbean/Trinidad & Tobago stuff like Ragga, Soca, Reggae, and all.
I could definitely see Jesus being down with some Marley. Put on Uprising and he’d probably love that shit.
@Percy: Nah I’m not sure he would dig those spots…you know how it is when a celebrity comes in a club…the DJ always announces “who is in the house” and then they’d make him walk on water and sign autographs….it would get tiring lol
I don’t think Jesus would be the type to sign many autographs. He was pretty down-to-earth. Maybe he’d go up and crack a few jokes but I think he’d probably go dancing after that. The crowd would love it.
We need some Marley for a sound-track on this thread – We and Dem, mon.
Don’t worry about a thing, ’cause every little thing gonna be alright.
Check moderation, I think JHC might have liked this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAXcilE2xYg
Damn, almost makes me want to smoke my rainy day cache. And I hate pot. Those three little birds are bad news. Haha..
@Perseph: Oh, I like this. Never heard it before.
“I wonder what kind of music he would have liked today.”
There are several slayer videos hosting an image of a modified billboard that reads: “God listens TO SLAYER.”
I’m inclined to believe this.
@Lorax, haha, don’t worry ’bout a thing, mon.
@Clevername, lol.