Oh? While, I’m not sure exactly what your position is (so yes, attacking a strawman here…) I don’t particularity think human history plays nicely to any kind of higher patriarchal being.
I find much more rationality in what I would broadly call eastern philosophy (reincarnation based). However, the idea that my “being” will come back based on virtue or vices, seems to be rooted in fact as much as a brothers grim tale. It sure does seem like a good way of bending people to your will. All you have to do is define what is virtuous and what is vice uhh full. To me, that seems to always be tightly coupled with conforming to your society. And, sure that’s just one view of it. I admit, not very nuanced. It’s hard to have a discussion without knowing if you thought there was merit in an atman (soul) or not.
Or, maybe you mean in the sense that when someone dies, you and I still exist?
Obviously not looking to change any opinions, or attack any beliefs. Just curious.
I was having a conversation with someone who was taking comfort in the idea that the person they lost was in heaven. I said, jeez, I’m glad I don’t believe in a heaven, otherwise the temptation to join them would be too great. I mean, I enjoyed the relationship I had with them ‘now’. Not the imaginary one we could have in 10-50 years. After-all I’d be a completely different person! Them, I would argue more so! We wouldn’t have the same connection or bond, that is if we even remember each other. So If I did think “I” lived in some afterlife, I’d have to off myself post haste if I wanted to maintain what I shared with them.
Now, I’m not saying it would be a poor relationship, just that it would different. I wouldn’t know them, and they wouldn’t know me. IOW the thought that they still exist does not consul me in the slightest.
Pragmatically, I think assuming the afterlife is all ice cream and beer is silly. Why would things be better? Why would it be a fresh start? Why should it be any different? Don’t wait for death to start your life. Start it now. Death is reserved for the end of living. The end of perceivable change for “you”.
I think this theme is highly misunderstood. Yes, you can believe in heaven, God or reicarnation, but if you think about it – it doesn’t make any sense. It just provides with at least anything to imagine in this area.
The thing is, we are not the ones who we think we are. Your personality, your sense of “your life” thats just another imagination. But to say there will be nothing after death doesn’t make sense either, because nothing cannot exist, cannot be.
My current position about this is that after death, you will immidiately begin new universe, because you will have to start with time and space again. How it will look, I think we can’t have a clue….
Sure, and I didn’t frame “afterlife” on purpose. To some it is the question, “do I exist after I die?”. For others it might something different. For example the parts I am made of are consumed and incorporated into other life. I didn’t go away, I just changed. The energy in my brain didn’t disappear. The connections it formed merely changed into something else. Seems to fit fine with idea nothing unreal exists. And in that sense, I’d be a dunce to say there is nothing after life.
On your last idea, when an tree dies, does it also begin a new universe? If not, does a ant? A sparrow? Dog? Chimpanzee? How about inorganic things, like a rock? In other words, is consciousness (or maybe just the version we declare homo sapiens to have) really that special that that it exists and is maintained outside of natural biological and physical processes? Could be.
Fundamentally, I would say “yes”. Human so called consciousness is just energy worked by brain. Organisms similiar to us (chimp, dog, sparrow) will have probably similar consciousness and have similar feeling about afterlife (even if not that defined). For species more different (ants, trees), its more and more difficult to imagine how they feel the life. And for rocks, it seems almost impossible 🙂
I would say the main thing in not to be anthropocentric. We are too set up for our human relationships that this is very thin ice for our imagination. After you die, you will loose your individual humanity. Ofc there will be nothing like universe, thats another concept of our brain. There is nothnig we can say about afterlife, because everything we say is based on our current brain…
Hmm, So I think therefore I exist after my thinking hardware stops? 🙂
> I would say the main thing in not to be anthropocentric.
Yeah, that’s precisely why I said rock. Which, sir, or madam, I dip my hat to you for acknowledging and understanding what I was getting at by saying “seems nearly impossible”. I wanted an example of something normally not looked at as alive. And it does cease to be (being very, very generous here, I apologize) in a similar way a human body does. Eventually.
I think much to your point, so much of what makes us human is not in our brain. It’s in our at least 20 senses. Our neuron lined gut. etc.
However, I’m still oh so confused as to what role consciousness meets life, and how or what it interacts with when the original (or I guess you would say non original?) medium ceases to function.’
I will give it a shot. From a scientific viewpoint, everything is energy. When the energy is locked up (or blocked or smthing) in some form, it becomes matter. So the consciousness could be this energy locked up in a material brain, where the structure of the matter projects how the energy will behave. We know neurons work on electricity, so maybe this electricity is what we feel as us.
After we die, it would just be free from this form – how would it feel? Just imagine. Then locked up in new complex forms.
Maybe the forms itself fight for the energy they can lock and thats why we feel that kind of paradox to our life 🙂
BTW I remember hearing or reading about a fascinating idea that at the moment just before the brain ceases to function, it gets caught in feedback loop that could “feel” like an eternity for the brain that is experiencing it. I wish I remembered where I saw that. IIRC it was very loosely backed up by (pseudo) neuroscience. Then again, I could just be talking out of my ass.
Yeah, that can happen. Brain does a lot of crazy things, more if you are mentally ill or dying 🙂 Our experince of time is totally subjective. Our brain only works so hard to be maximally connected and adapted to the objective world, otherwise we would not be able to communicate with others and just died somewhere.
This is broken mostly in dreaming where you can experience vast eternities completely out of sync with “objective” time.
So this can definitely happen and that would fuck up every idea we just had about afterlife 😀 Hope I won’t be in depression in this loop.
I watched a fascinating documentary called “The Immortalist: Can I Live Forever?” which has an interesting perspective on technologies influence on lifespan. If we can hold onto our consciousness after the demise of our natural body does that count as afterlife?
There are some remarkable advancements in Neuropreservation with some companies already offering cryogenic freezing.
I think this is super naive. And even if it would work in some complexity, you would only change your body for some technology. I don’t see much immortality in there 🙂
I like Aubrey de Grey and his SENS more. He is just saying that if we remain healthy and will prevent or repair damage to our bodies (and brains) we can live almost indefinetely. But his main reason is to prevent all diseases, living long would be just a choice then.
Seems crazy at the first shot, but it should be doable with the right technology. If the nerves connect, the body should adapt to feel like yours. Maybe.
Nope. I plan on seeing every fucking rescued animal ive ever met when I cross the rainbow bridge. I will be buried in fur, feathers and shells. I especially look forward to explaining to Choco my dead tarantula, why I let the cat eat him. I know it was a him because he had two extra legs.
Your after life only consist of what to do with your remains, i’m going to be ashes scattered in a nice place, i hope! that would be a ***** if they accidentally split them in a batch of cement!!! and they wound up in a wall or something!!
Ahh! rocketman! Keep up the positivism man, don’t let the haters get to you :D. I rather enjoyed your ball game story. Never thought I would see a suicidal rendition of take me out to the ball game. Rather enjoyable.
cephalus, yeah i kind of liked that story too! sorry i deleted it, facing the truth and knowing the answers is not what people want to hear even if it’s about the after life, people like the movie versions better.
Rocketman: Where am i? i’m dead!
Pearly gates guard: Rocketman! come in! we have been expecting you!! here’s your limo, here is a bag of money! and the heavenly casino is right up the road!!! enjoy you stay!! 🙂
Rocketman: yippee!! i made it! i’m in heaven! were’s the dancing naked ladies!!! 🙂
Director: CUT! CUT! ROCKETMAN! THOSE WEREN’T YOUR LINES! DANCING NAKED LADIES!!
Rocketman: Sorry! I thought I’d ad lib! A bit make it more interesting! 🙂
22 comments
I believe there is more evidence to support that there is in fact something after this life.
Oh? While, I’m not sure exactly what your position is (so yes, attacking a strawman here…) I don’t particularity think human history plays nicely to any kind of higher patriarchal being.
I find much more rationality in what I would broadly call eastern philosophy (reincarnation based). However, the idea that my “being” will come back based on virtue or vices, seems to be rooted in fact as much as a brothers grim tale. It sure does seem like a good way of bending people to your will. All you have to do is define what is virtuous and what is vice uhh full. To me, that seems to always be tightly coupled with conforming to your society. And, sure that’s just one view of it. I admit, not very nuanced. It’s hard to have a discussion without knowing if you thought there was merit in an atman (soul) or not.
Or, maybe you mean in the sense that when someone dies, you and I still exist?
Obviously not looking to change any opinions, or attack any beliefs. Just curious.
I am not yet one of those who could confirm or deny an afterlife, but if there is one I can’t think of any way in which I would prefer it to oblivion.
I was having a conversation with someone who was taking comfort in the idea that the person they lost was in heaven. I said, jeez, I’m glad I don’t believe in a heaven, otherwise the temptation to join them would be too great. I mean, I enjoyed the relationship I had with them ‘now’. Not the imaginary one we could have in 10-50 years. After-all I’d be a completely different person! Them, I would argue more so! We wouldn’t have the same connection or bond, that is if we even remember each other. So If I did think “I” lived in some afterlife, I’d have to off myself post haste if I wanted to maintain what I shared with them.
Now, I’m not saying it would be a poor relationship, just that it would different. I wouldn’t know them, and they wouldn’t know me. IOW the thought that they still exist does not consul me in the slightest.
Pragmatically, I think assuming the afterlife is all ice cream and beer is silly. Why would things be better? Why would it be a fresh start? Why should it be any different? Don’t wait for death to start your life. Start it now. Death is reserved for the end of living. The end of perceivable change for “you”.
I think this theme is highly misunderstood. Yes, you can believe in heaven, God or reicarnation, but if you think about it – it doesn’t make any sense. It just provides with at least anything to imagine in this area.
The thing is, we are not the ones who we think we are. Your personality, your sense of “your life” thats just another imagination. But to say there will be nothing after death doesn’t make sense either, because nothing cannot exist, cannot be.
My current position about this is that after death, you will immidiately begin new universe, because you will have to start with time and space again. How it will look, I think we can’t have a clue….
Sure, and I didn’t frame “afterlife” on purpose. To some it is the question, “do I exist after I die?”. For others it might something different. For example the parts I am made of are consumed and incorporated into other life. I didn’t go away, I just changed. The energy in my brain didn’t disappear. The connections it formed merely changed into something else. Seems to fit fine with idea nothing unreal exists. And in that sense, I’d be a dunce to say there is nothing after life.
On your last idea, when an tree dies, does it also begin a new universe? If not, does a ant? A sparrow? Dog? Chimpanzee? How about inorganic things, like a rock? In other words, is consciousness (or maybe just the version we declare homo sapiens to have) really that special that that it exists and is maintained outside of natural biological and physical processes? Could be.
Fundamentally, I would say “yes”. Human so called consciousness is just energy worked by brain. Organisms similiar to us (chimp, dog, sparrow) will have probably similar consciousness and have similar feeling about afterlife (even if not that defined). For species more different (ants, trees), its more and more difficult to imagine how they feel the life. And for rocks, it seems almost impossible 🙂
I would say the main thing in not to be anthropocentric. We are too set up for our human relationships that this is very thin ice for our imagination. After you die, you will loose your individual humanity. Ofc there will be nothing like universe, thats another concept of our brain. There is nothnig we can say about afterlife, because everything we say is based on our current brain…
Hmm, So I think therefore I exist after my thinking hardware stops? 🙂
> I would say the main thing in not to be anthropocentric.
Yeah, that’s precisely why I said rock. Which, sir, or madam, I dip my hat to you for acknowledging and understanding what I was getting at by saying “seems nearly impossible”. I wanted an example of something normally not looked at as alive. And it does cease to be (being very, very generous here, I apologize) in a similar way a human body does. Eventually.
I think much to your point, so much of what makes us human is not in our brain. It’s in our at least 20 senses. Our neuron lined gut. etc.
However, I’m still oh so confused as to what role consciousness meets life, and how or what it interacts with when the original (or I guess you would say non original?) medium ceases to function.’
(P.S. I’ve really enjoyed engaging with you)
I will give it a shot. From a scientific viewpoint, everything is energy. When the energy is locked up (or blocked or smthing) in some form, it becomes matter. So the consciousness could be this energy locked up in a material brain, where the structure of the matter projects how the energy will behave. We know neurons work on electricity, so maybe this electricity is what we feel as us.
After we die, it would just be free from this form – how would it feel? Just imagine. Then locked up in new complex forms.
Maybe the forms itself fight for the energy they can lock and thats why we feel that kind of paradox to our life 🙂
BTW I remember hearing or reading about a fascinating idea that at the moment just before the brain ceases to function, it gets caught in feedback loop that could “feel” like an eternity for the brain that is experiencing it. I wish I remembered where I saw that. IIRC it was very loosely backed up by (pseudo) neuroscience. Then again, I could just be talking out of my ass.
Yeah, that can happen. Brain does a lot of crazy things, more if you are mentally ill or dying 🙂 Our experince of time is totally subjective. Our brain only works so hard to be maximally connected and adapted to the objective world, otherwise we would not be able to communicate with others and just died somewhere.
This is broken mostly in dreaming where you can experience vast eternities completely out of sync with “objective” time.
So this can definitely happen and that would fuck up every idea we just had about afterlife 😀 Hope I won’t be in depression in this loop.
there is life after death, just not for those who are dead.
I watched a fascinating documentary called “The Immortalist: Can I Live Forever?” which has an interesting perspective on technologies influence on lifespan. If we can hold onto our consciousness after the demise of our natural body does that count as afterlife?
There are some remarkable advancements in Neuropreservation with some companies already offering cryogenic freezing.
http://www.sbs. com.au/ondemand/video/699460675682/ The-Immortalist-Can-I-Live-Forever#!
> If we can hold onto our consciousness after the demise of our natural body does that count as afterlife?
Depends on how you define afterlife. I’d be inclined to say technically yes.
I think this is super naive. And even if it would work in some complexity, you would only change your body for some technology. I don’t see much immortality in there 🙂
I like Aubrey de Grey and his SENS more. He is just saying that if we remain healthy and will prevent or repair damage to our bodies (and brains) we can live almost indefinetely. But his main reason is to prevent all diseases, living long would be just a choice then.
Have you heard about the head transplant an Italian surgeon is aiming for in 2017?
Fascinating stuff.
Seems crazy at the first shot, but it should be doable with the right technology. If the nerves connect, the body should adapt to feel like yours. Maybe.
Nope. I plan on seeing every fucking rescued animal ive ever met when I cross the rainbow bridge. I will be buried in fur, feathers and shells. I especially look forward to explaining to Choco my dead tarantula, why I let the cat eat him. I know it was a him because he had two extra legs.
Haha, Nice. I hope that afterlife comes true for you!
Wait, your cat has two extra legs? Or Choco? Absolutely terrifying. I’ll just stick with my cats, turtle and fish, thank you.
I once met a guy who liked putting scorpions in his mouth. Changed my life forever. For the worse.
There is an after life!!! in the movies!!!! 🙂
BRAIN DIE’S YOU DIE.
Your after life only consist of what to do with your remains, i’m going to be ashes scattered in a nice place, i hope! that would be a ***** if they accidentally split them in a batch of cement!!! and they wound up in a wall or something!!
Ahh! rocketman! Keep up the positivism man, don’t let the haters get to you :D. I rather enjoyed your ball game story. Never thought I would see a suicidal rendition of take me out to the ball game. Rather enjoyable.
cephalus, yeah i kind of liked that story too! sorry i deleted it, facing the truth and knowing the answers is not what people want to hear even if it’s about the after life, people like the movie versions better.
Rocketman: Where am i? i’m dead!
Pearly gates guard: Rocketman! come in! we have been expecting you!! here’s your limo, here is a bag of money! and the heavenly casino is right up the road!!! enjoy you stay!! 🙂
Rocketman: yippee!! i made it! i’m in heaven! were’s the dancing naked ladies!!! 🙂
Director: CUT! CUT! ROCKETMAN! THOSE WEREN’T YOUR LINES! DANCING NAKED LADIES!!
Rocketman: Sorry! I thought I’d ad lib! A bit make it more interesting! 🙂