For those of you thinking about it, or those of you who have ‘survived’ it either as an attempter or someone close to them, here’s my story.
I’m 30, and my husband D was 31. We were together for 11 years and married for 9 of those, with two young daughters aged 7 and 2.
I won’t lie, the first 2-3 years we put each other through hell – I would obsess and interrogate him over silly things, go on and on at him, we argued a lot, he would lash out/snap and be violent. He was immature – I remember during one argument in the car I told him I was taking him back to live with his dad, he got out and sat in the middle of the motorway! I think he’d been drinking (can’t remember) and I talked him round. He’d had an abusive childhood physically and mentally, he’d watched his dad beat his mum and siblings, he wet the bed til the age of 16 and the family were scared of his dad. His mum left when D was 16, taking 2 of his siblings. I wonder how it affected him.
Anyway…Then in 2008 we got married, the violence stopped and the arguing decreased. The following year our first child was born. Life was relatively normal from 2009-2014.
We spent all of 2014 trying to conceive our second child, a child D did not want but was willing to have to keep me happy (he’d only ever wanted one child, I was broody) but life was still normal. Our second child arrived in April 2015.
Things went downhill a few months later. He started hanging around with a new guy at work and all of a sudden was constantly on the phone to him, and then the drinking began. The odd night here and there, coming home at 3am drunk out of his mind. Meanwhile he began doing less and less with me and the kids, putting his friend first in my opinion. This continued and towards the end of 2015 he uncovered a huge amount of debt I’d been hiding from him, went mad and smashed up the house. He forgave me and we had a nice xmas.
2016 was a tough year – we spent many months ok and many months “split up” but living together. The debt wasn’t the issue for him, it was the HUGE web of lies I’d told to cover it up. He didn’t understand that the debt only accrued for living costs, like food and stuff, hardly a luxury lifestyle. He felt our marriage had been a lie. He started going out more often which made us argue. I told him I wanted a divorce and he got nasty, said vile things. We managed to work things out and ended 2016 on a good note.
Here comes the suicide bit…
Jan 2017 we argued, I told him I couldn’t live my 30s the way I lived my 20s, with him doing nothing with the kids etc. (he’d given up going out all night to save our marriage by this point). His drinking was still a problem as he drank at home, and even one drink made him nasty. On 8 Jan I discovered an order for a gas mask. I confronted him, he told me he’d researched the most painless, quick, guaranteed way to die (exit bag). I said all the usual stuff – hadn’t he considered the children, what he’d miss out on, me etc. and he said he had, but we’d be better off without him and we’d get over it. He said he felt suicidal because I was “mental” (ME not him!) and made up stuff to argue over. He said he knew he’d never see the kids if we split up (to be fair I always threatened he’d have to have supervised access). I talked him round. Or so I thought. On my birthday 3 weeks later I found he’d been trying to buy it again, this time in person paying cash. I can’t recall what I said at that time but I must’ve confronted him. I was confused, I said I thought he was happy, he seemed happy last Xmas and he said “I thought I could be”
Feb 2017 I left him for a week – we had an argument, we both overreacted and I left. I told him he’d have to take me to court for access. But after a week I relented and took the kids to see him. He was almost crying, begging for me to come home, something he’d NEVER done. I came home and he was the happiest I’d ever seen him.
March was uneventful, we moved house. End of April we argued, he “fake” called the police then accused me of calling them, then he called them for real, all because I’d accused him of having a drink and we’d argued. He called the police who came and left, said nothing wrong etc. I threw him out. He came to our youngest’s party and then announced he had to leave because Id “arranged for him to be beaten up in front of the kids” based on the fact he’d overheard me ask my friend if her and her partner were coming!!! He left. He was gone 2 weeks, and I again threatened he’d have to have supervised access but I again relented and let him see the kids at home. He moved back in the same night.
End of May we celebrated our anniverary and it was lovely – the best date night we’d ever had. We’d had a few date nights in 2016 but they’d all ended badly as he’d have a drink and get argumentative etc.
June was full of arguments. First week of July we went on holiday which was stressful – he drank a lot, did nothing to help me with the kids, moaned all the time etc. Drank so much he was vomiting then tried to say it was food poisoning when he hadn’t even eaten that day. It reminded me of the previous year when he told me he thought I was poisoning his food, and kept feeding some of his dinner to our kids to make sure I didn’t poison it!
The day we came home, our 7 year old was playing up (her behaviour for over a year at night has been hell, screaming all night, refusing to sleep, refusing to let me leave the room, screaming things like YOU’RE KILLING ME, SOMEONE CALL THE POLICE to make us give her what she wants. I’d argue with D as he would say leave her to scream but I’d do anything to stop it as I didn’t want her waking up her sister or the neighbours calling the police. It was soooo stressful! This past 6 months both me and D have been awful to her, called her names,, yelled and I’ve smacked her a few times out of pure despair and sleep deprivation. I’m not proud of it.
Anyway that night D smacked her, HARD. It left a handprint. I yelled at him and he accused me of yelling so that he got arrested. He was vile to me, calling me names. I stayed upstairs and I swear I could hear him pacing up and down. He slept on the sofa.
The next night I stayed in a hotel, emailed him explaining he had to leave due to smacking our eldest that hard, and the fact I might as well have gone on holiday alone as he did nothing and never does, listed some of his historic violence and told him to admit it to himself, then leave so we could live in peace. I returned home the next day which was a saturday. He spent all weekend in bed, literally didn’t move. When I asked him to leave, he switched his phone on to record himself and recorded himself the whole weekend.
Monday he went to work, by this point I should mention we’d been emailing back and forth, the usual arguments and accusations, but this time him accusing me of hurting our daughter (things that weren’t true as well as mentioning the light smacking). I thought nothing of it, he even said he’d recorded himself that weekend to prove his innocence so I couldn’t accuse him of anything! (I’d told him to leave or I’d get the police). I told him his bag was outside.
What I know now is gathered from various pieces of information.
That Monday night he went for drinks with his friend, only a couple, then picked up his bag (I was out) and checked into a hotel at 9pm. The next day he went to work as normal, but left early, drove 1.5 hours to collect ******** and a hose at 5pm. I don’t know what he did from that moment.
He emailed me at 1.30am on the Wednesday telling me he’d failed to protect our kids and was paying for it, that he’d had 11 years of my abuse/control and couldn’t take it anymore, that he’d now finally be free as there’s only 1 way out, that no matter how good a liar I am, I can’t get out of it this time.
He was found dead at 6am.
He left 1 note which basically said DNR and that he couldn’t go on living in fear of false prosecution or being attacked. That I’d taken the kids from him and I was the abuser, that he had nothing left and I’d won. He goes on to say his “escape money” is in his wallet (£1300) and he wouldn’t be needing it etc, that all his money goes only to his kids, then he says that whoever finds him should check his phone for emails/messages as they will “tell you all you need to know”. He then begs “please save my girls from that monster” and finally to the kids that he’s sorry he couldn’t protect them from me but he’ll always love them. He then left 2 sheets of paper with lists of domestic abuse that I’d apparently done to HIM. Some true (minor stuff like not letting him cook/clean as I’m OCD), some lies (threats to kill him, saying he smashed up stairs when it was me) some bizarre (I’d sold his house from under him, impossible and he dealt with that all), some calculated lies (he’s not allowed to look at women in underwear. Not true, it was naked/porn I had issues with, but he knew that didn’t sound anywhere near as bad as underwear). Things like he’s not allowed friends/family etc. all stuff that is “typical” abuse but not entirely true. Phone numbers of male domestic violence helplines.
He’d wiped his dash cam and phone. All we can recover is that he searched for the correct grammar to use in his suicide note (he searched whomever v whoever” for example) and how to make a DNR for suicide, where to get gas etc. I suspect most of it was done on private browsing.
So you’re wondering why I wrote this?
Well I do blame myself. I do think I drove him to it, emotionally abused/tortured him to death. I did constantly threaten to have him arrested (and in his mind, it wasn’t for the old violence, I’d make up lies about it continuing) and I did constantly threaten that he’d only see the kids supervised. But in my defence, I never followed through – he always saw the kids at home or out for a meal (we only split twice and it was only for 1-2 weeks each time!). He was only removed by the police when he smashed up the house, never arrested. I don’t know why he was paranoid about being beaten up or attacked, he said this often, but my friend’s partner had never met him, and I don’t recall ever threatening to harm him! I do recall repeatedly telling him I’d never let that happen etc.
I’m now in therapy. His family hate me and blame me (despite the fact he cut them off 6 years ago for their abuse, threats and the fact one brother is a pedo). I carry the burden of guilt, knowing that he blamed me.
Did he love me? Well he was wearing his wedding ring (he never took it off, even when we split up he’d keep it on and say he was still married even if I wasn’t) but could easily have forgotten to remove it. Did he mention he loved me at any time in the last week? No. I hadn’t seen him since he smacked our child, the last things he said to me were vile, the last thing he said to her was nasty, he’d not even seen the kids or said goodbye.
Could I have done more? I recognised he was shutting down by being in bed all weekend but because he was recording himself I assumed he was just being stupid and trying to set me up for something. I realise now he was doing something he did in January when I found the order for gas mask – he was distancing himself from the kids to make it easier to kill himself, he said this in January and he said it worked. So I know that’s why/how he didn’t say goodbye.
He didn’t tell me he loved me – the closest he got was in his last email to me he says he gave me everything he had, built his whole life for our family, did everything I ever wanted but that it wasn’t enough, nothing ever was.
He didn’t say goodbye, sorry, he loved me – nothing. In fact he did the opposite – he carefully wrote that short letter blaming me, desperate plea for the kids to be taken from me, it was all calculated to hurt me and he KNEW I would obsess and torment myself over it. He didn’t take an inch of responsibility, just put it all on me.
Well done if you got this far.
If you’re suicidal and you have kids let me tell you this – my two year old will never know she had a daddy, she’ll never remember him, she will only have the memories I give to her, and that breaks my heart as she adores him. At her age, out of sight is out of mind, and every day I have to show her his photo to remind her who he is. At his funeral she was excited to see his photo and said “look it’s daddy” in sheer delight. That little girl will grow up wondering why daddy didn’t love her enough to stick around and do all the things he did with her sister.
The 7 year old sobbed from beginning to end of the funeral. Can you imagine what it is like to sit your child down and tell her that her father, who she hasn’t seen in a week, has died? To answer her questions, to hear her sob about how she didn’t even get to hug him or say goodbye. To watch her break down, to watch her cry for her sister not ever knowing her dad, to watch her sob and break down. I wanted to die myself. Somebody will be breaking that news to your child and TRUST ME they do not “get over it”!
Yes, I’m to blame, and I look at those girls and I feel guilt that I still have them, that he is missing out on their lives because of me, that he was so worried about being arrested or not seeing the kids that he took his life. Yes logically he could have fought to see them unsupervised, but I guess he just didn’t think he’d win, maybe he thought I’d lie to make sure he didn’t get to see them unsupervised. Maybe he thought they’d be taken from me if he sacrificed himself, who knows. I do know that I am a good mum, and it was only ever during arguments that he would say otherwise – every argument would be how I abuse him/them emotionally, how he couldn’t protect them but would do everything he could, that he hated himself for not protecting them etc. Then we’d make up and he’d say I was a good mum and too soft on them!
The devastation of his death is unreal. I have spent weeks obsessing over how he did it, where and when and every last detail. I have an inquest coming up just after my daughter’s birthday. I’ve had to sit my kids down and tell them daddy’s dead. I’ve had to cremate my husband. I’ve had to pick a coffin. And you know what? It makes me want to join him. But you know what stops me? My kids. I could never ever do that to them. So now I’m angry, why didn’t he stick around to fight for them, if he thought they needed protecting he’d damn well be here to do it, why not wait to find out if his access is supervised or not and then fight against it? Why not just LIVE because at least then there’s hope, now he’s dead he will DEFINITELY never see them again.
For all of you considering it – don’t. Don’t do it to the kids. My daughters are having to grow up without their daddy, no daddy to walk them down the aisle at their weddings, see them at school plays, he’ll miss our youngest’s first day at school even. One day they’ll have to know how he did it, and then they’ll forever have to wonder why he didn’t love them enough to live.
34 comments
I don’t read any guilt. All I’m wondering is: how are you not behind bars?
Why would she be behind bars? What did she do?
Whoa..that was crazy..
You’re a good mom. Don’t blame yourself, you didn’t know it could happen this way
Thanks for writing this out. Humans are very strange animals. I had a ‘friend’ who deceived me, lied to me and then turned it around as if it was my fault. It’s taken me almost 5 years to get over being mentally manipulated…and she was just a friend…no love or sexual relationship. I can’t even imagine what you must have gone through and D and the kids. Anyway, through my 5 years of trying to comes to grips with my situation I came to understand just how deranged, insane and off the charts sick we can make each other. We’re all just acting out of our insanity, our mental sickness and our blindness to our own minds. I don’t think I’d blame yourself or D. It’d be like blaming a lion for eating a gazelle. It’s what they do, who they are. We all need help.
So true
There’s a lot of narcissism out there in the greater population. A lot of verbal, emotional, physical abuse, both reciprocal and one-sided. The human race is a very demented bunch of primates. I often wonder in my spare moments why people can’t just quit being all dramatic and horrible, but then I go and do some dramatic and horrible thing myself, and I can only muse about how universal it all really is.
Yeah…
Well written. Agreed.
Yup, If only we could come toghether and enlighten ourselves and eachother
He probably suffered PTSD from childhood, always in a state of fear of what his dad would do to him. You forced him to have a second child even though you made it clear he didn’t want another one! Unfair. Also unfair was constantly threatening to take his kids away from him. You don’t use your children like that.
You said something like “In my defense, I didn’t do it.” But you kept acting like you would take the children away and shut him out. The court usually sided with the mother so he probably felt backed into a corner and like he was all alone.
That was a toxic relationship and it seemed like he was very dependent on you. Co-dependent. Like a scared little boy and you used that to your advantage to frighten him.
I feel no remorse for you. I only feel bad for those girls left without a father.
*The court sides with the mother usually, I mean.
Also, why isn’t you tell him to get therapy and seek help? You kept fucking with him just because you knew you could and unfortunately he was in a weak state of mind.
Brokenandbent30 and quaero, get the fuck off this site you trolls. Why would you EVER bully a person who comes to this site in pain? Even if, in your twisted minds, you think she’s wrong just shut the fuck up. This is not a place where we judge other people, read the FAQ, it’s for support.
Lonely87 I apologize for the few nitwits on this site, but I guess they, just like your husband, use their personal demons as justification to bully and attack others. There is an unwritten rule amongst truly suicidal people that suicide is an act apart, the ultimate personal, solitary and individual act – meaning nobody forces you to do it. It is your choice and your act alone. There is great power in this final comforting thought. Obviously your husband was the exception, where his insecurity of his decision led him to blame someone else (you) for his act. From your description, it seems like this is a pattern of his, justifying things by going out of his way to set up conditions that make it easier on him (such as depersonalizing his children, or inventing paranoid persecution fears of being poisoned or beat up). In other words, as far as the classical Socratean suicide goes, your husband got everything wrong. He couldn’t even accept responsibility for the one act that could have “redeemed” him; he had to dump that responsibility on you, post mortem.
Suicide is a funny thing. It sometimes has its basis in logical, intelligent, reasonable thinking (such as the prisoner who commits suicide to avoid an inevitable life sentence). It is sometimes driven by pure emotion (such as the jilted lover who can’t handle heartbreak). It should ALWAYS be a statement of individuality, which is why it’s unfortunate that your husband didn’t reach that level. But I suspect if he had reached that level, he would have realized that he needs to take responsibility for raising the children he created. Statements like “I failed to protect you” and “you’re better off without me” are convenient excuses to dump one’s responsibility. So again, your husband fits the textbook profile of someone running from his obligations. His suicide was NOT about you; you were just the most accessible scapegoat. Anyway thank you so much for sharing this important story as well as your inspiring message at the end. And again, I apologize that a few SP members felt the need to lash out at you for their own insecurities. I hope you stick around, find comfort, and help others.
@Thom99
I see your point but they also do have right to write what they think. It’s a forum for suicidal people, not depression support. Yes, don’t hate but judging? People judge all the time, just like you have just judged them.
We don’t know all of the details. Either way can we true. He may have been a liar. She may be a liar. Does it matter? No.
What matters is what she intends to do with her life from now on. All the good luck on her therapy.
notwhitenorblack, no they don’t have the right to post what they feel if those statements are intended to drive someone deeper into depression. I’ll give you an example, if someone posts their picture saying “I’m wrestling with suicide because I’m fat” then you do NOT have the right (on SP or any other support site) to say “Yeah I think you’re fat!”
Again I point you to the FAQ where it’s stated that SP is foremost a place of support and healing. All these free speech idiots can go post elsewhere if they need to get their insecurities vented. If you notice, my reply to to OP did not touch on who was right and wrong. I only addressed the fact that the OP shouldn’t feel persecuted for someone else’s suicide. Whether it’s the husband blaming her, or trolls blaming her, suicide is entirely the choice of the person who commits suicide, am I right? Can we just leave it there and dispense with the judgmentalism on this site?
Blame is on both sides. The only thing you can do now is to focus on your kids and remember him as a man you married, not as an alcoholic or a corpse.
You said you’re OCD. It’s nothing bad obviously, but try to analyze your behavior a bit. You can hurt your daughters without intending to at all.
About your daughter that couldn’t sleep… You need to really care about her now or she’ll never forgive either of you. Not proud? That’s good but don’t tell it to us. Tell it to her.
You’re needed. From now on, try to be a good mum. I know you can do it. Be patient, calm and love them. Don’t shout. Don’t hit. All the rest will come in time.
I also thank you for writing this out. Maybe this story of mine will let you see you are not the only woman who got a man to join you in reproduction when he had mixed feelings about it.
I never wanted to be a father, but was tricked into it the first time. The old “I’m taking the pill” but she wasn’t story. I can’t begin to tell you the misery this has made for him, her, and me. In hindsight, to this day, I think I should been able to ferret out that this was going to be a possibility with this individual. If only it stopped there.
About ten years later, like the absolute idiot that I am, I let a second woman badger me into fatherhood because somehow five years of her persistence on the point lit off a brilliant flash of stupidity in me and I actually consented! This would result in untold misery for my daughter, ex, and I. Now in case you don’t think this tale can any stupider, read on.
My daughter, at about 14 years of age, started pressuring me for a sibling. The answer then was a firm, gentle, flat out no. I had already seen enough emotional suffering from my very own offspring including her obviously. Oh but wait, there is more.
A friend of mine (after the divorce from the ex above) offered sex to me without her being on birth control. Absolutely not.
In conclusion, if your spouse or lover does not want to reproduce then for the sake of the unborn please take the high ground.
If anyone would like to reiterate what an idiot I have been feel free to do so, I can hardly disagree.
@Thom99, go fuck yourself! I have been on this site for years and I’ve shown nothing but compassion to people here. I am not a “troll” who just showed up to bully this person. I have a right to my opinion whether you like it or not. OP decided to tell this story and it made me feel anger for the way she treated him and I asked an important question, did she tell him to get professional help? Or even couple’s therapy? Something! Instead of being emotionally abusive and threatening to take his daughters away. She noticed that he attempted to commit suicide in the past.
Of course it was his decision, but it seems like she was pushing him in that direction. Again, go fuck yourself. Too bad you don’t like what I said. Get over it.
Oh my you’re an angry little man. I’ll leave you to your hate. Just wanted to point out you were successful at heaping guilt and blame and shitty feelings on the OP, so congratulations, I’m sure that’s the greatest accomplishment you’ve achieved in your life, mr helpful.
Oh my, you’re a cuntface. I’ll leave you to that. You’re successful at being one so have a good day.
OP told a story that was of course going to get a reaction out of people and all of the reactions weren’t going to be good. I don’t feel bad about what I said. OP told me she at least tried to get him help. That was left out of her story. Her original story came off cold to me until she went into details when myself and others asked her questions. I wish her the best.
As for you. You can still fuck off. I’m a girl, genius.
OP here.
Somebody mentioned did I try to help him. Well yes. In January when I thought I’d talked him round, I suggested counselling and/or visiting the doctor for medication. He refused both, saying if I wasn’t mental he’d be fine. D was never a “talker” so counselling wouldn’t happen. I recall telling him I’d go with him to the doctor, even telling him I’d make the appointment, he refused. I offered to leave, but he said that wouldn’t fix him. I offered to go to court and get proven written record that he could see the children unsupervised, he ignored that too. In his mind he was convinced he’d either never see the kids, or only supervised, no matter what.
When I left for that week in February I told him I wanted him to do counselling and he refused. I’ve mentioned it a few times and he’s always laughed and said no, don’t be ridiculous etc. Even if I’d have tricked or forced him to go to the doctor I highly doubt (99% sure) he’d admit he needed help.
Whilst he never took responsibility for anything he ever did in terms of violence etc, or any of his behaviour, I do feel extreme guilt and I mean EXTREME.
Yes he smacked our daughter too hard, but I would’ve calmed down and forgiven him. I wish I’d have got into that bed at the weekend, ignored him recording himself and talked to him, but how do I know he’d even listen? I thought I’d talked him round in January but obviously not as 3 weeks later he was trying again and 5 months after that he’s completed!
I keep thinking what if? Could I have stopped it? Why couldn’t he stick around and fight for unsupervised access, or fight for his kids? If he thought he needed to protect them, then surely dying would be the last thing he does not the first? There are many things he could’ve done to protect them – gone to the police, social services, recorded me, printed off the emails etc…
So yes I do accept all the blame and guilt. Partly because he blamed me and partly because I feel I emotionally traumatised him. Whilst he wasn’t perfect and was also emotionally abusive, ultimately he is the one who died and not me – so I must have been worse. I lied a lot, a lot of big lies and small ones. But since his death I’ve discovered he also lied (although nothing huge or major, mostly about his drinking habits). I was moody, I suffer with anxiety and I know I put him through hell especially the first few years. But surely if I was that bad, he’d leave? Or if I left, let me stay away? Or when he left, stay away instead of coming back? It doesn’t make sense.
I am racked with guilt every time I look at my children knowing I took their dad away from them. I hate myself, and if I didn’t have my kids I’d be joining D. They are my only reason for being.
As for the second child thing – well yes, evidently he only agreed to keep me happy. But that’s the important word – AGREED. I didn’t trick him, or force him, he thought about it and agreed to do it, and we had a good year of trying to conceive her so he could’ve changed his mind! Once she was born he was madly in love with her.
At least you did try to get him help. I’m glad you’re staying around for your daughters. They need you! Hopefully you’re seeing a good therapist to help you through this. Take care of yourself.
Well I have just stumbled on your post with a little to say – I have seen comments of people calling you out for having him “reproduce” with you against his wish to do so – I just wanted to add that I sually suicidal people plan it out for a long while before getting to to fully commit to the plan. While withering in and out for the desire to commit to it, he might have been planning his suicide for some times before he agreed to have the second child and that could have been why he didn’t want to at first.
So he was probably suicidal before all of this – and it wasn’t your fault.
That is all I have to say.
Suicidal people can act normal and rely on a partnership to keep appearances but still are suicidal.
I just wonder was the first child planned?
Usually*
Yes the first child was planned. Without dwelling too much it took a long time (and several losses) to have her. He had always only ever wanted one child, it was me who changed my mind and wanted another. He gave me a list of reasons and the main ones I remember are that the world is awful and he didn’t want to bring another life into it, he felt I wasn’t the same with him anymore (ie. loved our child not him) and he was concerned for my health as I was extremely ill after giving birth.
I just want to take a moment to salute you for being so open with this tragedy and sharing so the rest of of us can learn from it. BTW, you sure got me to open up about my own very tough subject.
From the looks of it, I’d have to agree with the others here. I don’t see any guilt, all I see is defensiveness, excuses and salvaging your reputation among family members who might have browsed in this site. Even in your posts to this very day, you view your husband with contempt. To quote, these are all coming from you:
-he wet the bed til the age of 16
-he was immature
-He knew I would obsess over it. Well done if you got this far.
-All we can recover is that he searched for the correct grammar
To make things worse, you make your husband’s death all about you. Your very writings betray what you truly feel, to quote, “it was all calculated to hurt me and he KNEW I would obsess and torment myself over it.” You’re not even sorrowful, you just want to absolve yourself of the guilt so you blame your husband for you feeling down, even though from the events that unfolded, it’s pretty clear that you are to be blamed yourself. What drove him to suicide is pretty clear from what you have written:
-you were heavily in debt and you hid that from him
-now he has to pay it off
-you tried to isolate him from even getting together with friends
-you constantly threatened him with divorce
-you left him when he needed help and social contacts the most
If I was in his shoes, I would be pissed too! You put him in debt that he has to pay off, isolated him from his only social contact (drinking buddy), threatened him with divorce, harass him over every minor detail and used your children as a threat to get what you want. Now that he has let the cat out of the bag, you have to come here to make your image and reputation clean since it seems to me he frequented this site and posted here. You’re not really here to express sorrow or repentance, aren’t you? You want to absolve yourself and salvage whatever could be left of your reputation. You aren’t really sorry he’s dead. You’re sorry that you got blamed for his suicide (rightly so) and your social repute is in tatters and you want to salvage whatever it is that you have.
To be honest, I’m not even sorry for you at this point. This is a classic case of sociopathy/psychopathy. You’ve never owned your mistakes and that is clear in your writings. As someone who has had his life also destroyed by sociopaths/psychopaths, you’re not getting any sympathy from me. In fact, we need less people like you around so this world will be a better place.
Wow black holez lots to think about.
I don’t KNOW he posted here or even looked at this site, I just think he probably did as when I researched the method to understand it, this site kept coming up.
I don’t care about his family (neither did he) or what they think of me.
I do feel you’re taking things out of context. I explained how he wet the bed til 16 as it was relevant proof of his traumatic childhood. Yes he was immature, so was I for those first few violent years. But he maintained the immaturity in the sense of being unable to handle adult situations – instead of talking he’d simply stonewall and create atmospheres which are no good for the kids. The grammar thing is to prove how oddly planned his suicide was, how down to the last details that don’t even matter.
I do blame myself.
But I also have to defend myself and the debt wasn’t an issue (it was more the lies about the debt), I was paying it off not him, yes I stopped him going out til 3am getting drunk because I don’t think that’s right when you have a wife and young kids. He still saw his friend every single day at work, had lunch together and a few drinks after work every week.
Yes I am angry and hurt he blamed me and yes his notes were very calculated to hurt me and yes he knew i would torture myself over them.
And yes as I keep saying I do blame myself and think I drove him to it. I posted here to better understand the suicidal mind and share how it affected me and our kids.
No he wasn’t perfect, he drank too much and was violent and emotionally abusive. He did nothing with the kids and left everything to me. But there was the other side to him which was the man I married. So yes I am sorry he’s gone, I’m devastated and if we didn’t have kids I’d have killed my self the second I found out.
Maybe I did lie a lot and threaten to leave him and make sure he only had supervised access. Maybe I did threaten to have him sent to prison. But all of those things were out of anger. I wish I’d never said them as that’s why he completed.
Maybe you’re right and I am a sociopath. I don’t know what’s real anymore, he gas lighted the violence and made me think I’m crazy, now he’s gone I think I’m even more crazy
As for not owning my mistakes, every argument we ever had in 11 years it was me apologising for and begging him to talk to me, even if it was his fault. He never owned his mistakes, not once in 11 years, even when he smashed the house up he blamed me then started saying I’d done it not him.
Not showing contempt just context.
This is also the man who looked after me when i was so ill after giving birth, who cradled our tiny babies, who spent a week building a bed from scratch for our eldest, who worked every day until our kids were old enough that I could, who rubbed my back every day as I have a bad back. Who did everything I ever asked…,all I ever wanted was him to do more with the kids, play with them etc.
Lonely87, I apologize if I came out cold and heartless. Just having recently experienced what sociopaths/psychopaths did to me brought back memories and wanted to lash out. It would be unfair for me to pour out my anger on you so apology is due to where it is due. Sorry, if I took it the wrong way but your original post seemed cold and heartless. Your husband recently died and here you went writing all the negative things about him, giving an impression that he was an immature brat who wet his bed even though he was already well into his teens. Not only that, you derided his use of “proper grammar” and even went out of the way to make it seem he was an idiot who went to Google in order to write up a decent farewell note to everyone around his life. I don’t know about you but that seemed full of contempt and hate on my end. Even in death, it seems he still doesn’t have peace. Anyone who would’ve read that would’ve come to the same conclusions.
You’re right, context is key so I’m not going to bother extending this argument further since I don’t know the whole story. Obviously we don’t have his side. He is dead, you’re alive and obviously the dead can’t defend themselves. Whatever the case, everything around us serves as lessons and either could make us stronger or break us. I know it sounds hypocritical saying this when I frequent this site too. I am still recovering myself, trying to let go of the hurts of the past and move forward. My depression has caused me to degrade my physical health immensely. I lost lots of weight, and that’s not in a good way. My posture has taken a back seat and my mental health is in tatters. I can’t for the life of me why I’d want to move when I can just easily give up but I know my fighting spirit just won’t die. My sense of justice and revenge is just too easily aroused I guess. What drives me now, God forbid, is wanting to get back at my tormentors, even if it means killing them.
Everyone on this site seems a little crazy. In fact, experiencing the traumas I’ve had in life, it’s made me crazy. Rest assured, you’re not alone in that regard. I hope you can find peace and sanity in your life. Many of us here would want that, even if it meant starting anew once again.
Thank you for your apology.
Re reading my original post it does seem quite cold. I didn’t intend it that way. Like the bed wetting, that was due to his abusive childhood and I was trying to explain the effect it had on him.
The grammar is just something I find odd. This is all I meant. If he was in the situation where he’s about to kill himself, why is he googling the correct grammar? I’m not suggesting he’s an idiot, I’m wondering why he cares so much that the grammar on his note is right? It’s a trivial detail? Like who cares if he puts the wrong word, it’s too planned and made no sense that’s all.
I took a lot of your first reply to heart and there are aspects I want to explore with my counsellor. I know that before his death I was myself emotionally abusive to him, lied a lot etc and that’s obviously not normal. I know that I drove him to his death and I can’t forgive myself.
I just wish I knew what kept him alive from his first known attempt in January until July. Or why he felt death was the only option. He didn’t “seem” depressed.
I love him so much that I think his death has driven me crazy. I obsess for hours over every detail of his suicide, of the months and even years before it, trying to make sense of it and why he did it then. He was only 31, we’d just returned from holiday, now I’m sat here a widow wondering if her husband loved her, wondering how to live without him, knowing it’s my fault.
Lonely, you don’t beat yourself over what’s happened. What’s done is done and things can’t be changed. What we can derive from our circumstances instead are lessons that we can take from and support from loved ones in order to steer us away from the dark path of suicide and depression. If you have any friends or loved ones around, I suggest talking to them and giving them a visit. Make it clear that you need emotional help. Don’t fish for sympathy, just tell them what you feel so you can unload the things bothering you off your chest. Don’t stop going to your counselor or therapist. Go to it religiously. Speaking of religiously, spirituality and religion can also help you. I know religion is not for everybody but I suggest going to retreats in monasteries or go to support groups. It will help you immensely. I hope you find peace in your life. At this stage, it’s best that you cope and grieve so you unload all that guilt and pain off your chest.
*don’t beat yourself over it rather
I read most of this, and if you take anything out of this comment, it’s to stop blaming yourself. in my experience, that is the only thing that can start the healing process. I understand that you did things wrong. but so did he. no one is perfect.
i don’t believe someone can make someone commit suicide unless it’s maybe blackmail or you tell them you will kill their family or harm them if they don’t kill themselves. the reason i believe this, is because you can straight up tell one person to kill themselves, and they will do it. but you can also say that to another person, and they will laugh in your face. people aren’t black and white. everyone reacts differently.
here’s my experience. i had an ex boyfriend kill himself not to long ago. i never actually blamed myself but i did think maybe things would be differently if i stayed with him even though we broke up over a year ago.
while we dated, we had a relatively good relationship. actually the best relationship i’ve ever had. he didn’t abuse me or control me or cheat on me like my current partner does. even though i caught him flirting with his ex, i know he would’ve been better than my current boyfriend.
during the end of our relationship, he talked about being suicidal a lot. but since i already tried to commit suicide twice before meeting him and i went through years struggling with suicidal thoughts and depression i felt that i was finally in a happier mindset. so i tried to support him at first. told him i loved and cared about him. i told him if he couldn’t live for himself, to please live for me. i told him to get into therapy. but i remember this one time during school he told me to come into the library during class. i was already struggling to keep up with homework and was getting tired of hearing it. i still tried to be supportive but ended up snapping at him “i don’t want to hear it anymore if you’re not trying to get help. i have stuff to do” not realizing he was seeking help in me. i’ll always feel bad for that moment.
when we broke up is when i found out he was flirting with his ex. she sent me screenshots because we also became friends through him. and i was fine with him being friends with her if he wasn’t flirting. i just got out of a bad relationship so i wasn’t taking no shit. so i walked away as he chase me literally crying begging for another chance.
my current boyfriend would never beg for me if i left him. he wouldn’t even ask me to come back. and i know that for a fact. i’ve threatened to kill myself and he said “do it. you’re a coward you won’t”. i remember overdosing on a bunch of pills and when i was throwing up, he called me stupid and said i just wanted attention and to ruin his day. and he called me a pill popper even though i just overdosed on mood stabilizers. as if that gets you high. it doesn’t. when i cut myself he told me he would leave if i didn’t stop because he didn’t want to be an attention whore. my ex would kiss my scars.
a year later he commits suicide. but i can’t blame myself because i know at the end of the day, he made his own decision and i can’t be sure i would’ve been able to save him had i stayed with him and been more supportive.
moral of the story: even if you were the best girlfriend ever there is no guarantee he wouldn’t have killed himself. you can’t always save someone.
i know my story is nothing compared to yours, but i hope you get through this. if you can’t get through it for yourself, do it for your kids. YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME even if you played a role in his death. you couldn’t have known. everyone makes mistakes.