Disclaimer: This is not a rant so I am not responsible for whatever rage you will have
This is a touchy subject but one I know needs to be discussed. I think feminism has brought a significant rise is male suicides. So significant infact that married men are blowing their brains out over it. Not to mention the whole gender war that is already confusing the coming generation of boys and girls.
Now here’s the thing, a big mistake we make as males is to think feminism has no reason to exist. IT DOES. I agree in part that women deserve broader opportunities in work and relationships. But the feminists in America are going overboard. They are ostracizing men as a whole and taking away masculinity which in turn in ruining the male identity and self confidence. I’ll be honest, feminine men don’t know what they’re doing. It just shows that humans are incapable of leaving well enough alone. Eventually the idea of male and female will no longer exist and reproduction will be artificial. But until then I’ll stick to being a man.
But this is something that needs to be handled with care, because men are killing themselves over their insecurities and misidentification. I have considered killing myself over it. Now I can’t avoid feminism might as well discuss it. It’s all around me and even my sister joined the program. Fortunately, I am a gym nut and I live and breathe the manly-man life as much as I can because I was raised having my masculinity beaten out me. I don’t plan to give it up for anyone ever again. In like manner, boys are struggling with life, growing up thinking they are female when in fact they were fighting their hormones all along. This confusion is causing problems, and feminism is becoming the largest contributor to it. But why is this happening? Because they want to be better than men, NOT EQUAL BUT BETTER. That is feminism in it’s raw form, a usurping of power and I can never stand by it.
From our very biology we are supposed to accept what is. Yeah science can do a few things but it can never make new information. The day a genderless baby is born is the day I accept genders other than male and female.
27 comments
Well there is XXY, XXXY, XXX, X, maybe there is Y. Chromosone 23 is gender. I believe when the fetus is forming in the womb, they all have female genitals and then if it is XY, the male will be given a burst of testosterone and the testes form to become, literally speaking, “MALE”
What that is, is science
What you are speaking of feminism is social construct – but probably just a different way of educating people. For example, educating that Men have been controlling government since 1789, and woman just got the right to vote in 1920, yet they suffer the same punishment.
It is the same. Woman cook, clean, pleasure the husband and bear his children, that is what it used to be. Woman had to be school teacher, nurse, nanny – but SHE COULD NOT be scientist, doctor, judge. Those have always been male jobs.
If a man kills himself because of this perhaps he is a sissy male and is butt-hurt.
Essentially, they have no voice in court and are not allowed to think for themselves.
“If a man kills himself because of this perhaps he is a sissy male and is butt-hurt.”
standing ovation
I’m usually understanding of everyone’s reasons for suicide. But when people blaime THEIR insecurities on mass groups, genders and races… well those are some of the rare times I see the evolutionary benefit in suicide. Not saying that to be hurtful to the OP (in fact I didn’t even read the whole post when I caught what it was about, so this is nothing personal against anyone). But if there exist a subclass of humans who are so insecure that they accuse blanket social demographics for their own failings, then suicide – so be it.
I respect a witty reply, and I have nothing against brash opinion. You can say it like you want to say it. But excuse me for thinking you clearly didn’t read my whole statement. Either that or you nit-picked what offended you and decided to make an assumption.
I did say that I agree with a majority of what feminists say, because yes, they were never given the same opportunities in the past and they struggled to be identified as intelligent beings equal with men. I don’t have an issue with women being equal, if you read my statement you know that. Let me quote it in fact.
QUOTE: “Now here’s the thing, a big mistake we make as males is to think feminism has no reason to exist. IT DOES. I agree in part that women deserve broader opportunities in work and relationships.”
What I did say is that feminism in america has gone overboard. Instead of wanting equality now you’re saying men are lesser than women, you feminists are not trying to achieve equality but you’re trying to oppress men. Your opening statement is interesting because of the sheer the bias that I see in
QUOTE: “Well there is XXY, XXXY, XXX, X, maybe there is Y. Chromosone 23 is gender. I believe when the fetus is forming in the womb, they all have female genitals”
Now that is fact, but considering the context you’ve quoted in I believe you want to say women are the only true gender and men come about as natures idea of achieving variety. When in fact what are female genitals? They are in a sense variation of the male. Not the progenitor they are simply similar but we are one species, that has nothing to do with women being better than men.
Summary: Feminist should fight for equality but don’t be saying who’s better. The only men who support feminists are feminine men and men who have something to lose. We support the fight for equality but am not gonna sit down and have women say she is the ultimate gender and best among all, we are equal. We may excel in different fields but we are equal.
Stop trying to be better than men. That’s feminism problem. Just aim for equality.
@cause-of-death-suicide
Feminism has nothing to do with anything. We are all responsible for ourselves, and for regulating our own emotions. If a guy gets insecure about what a bunch of other people think of him (woman OR man) instead of trusting himself, then he was never really a man to begin with. Blaming your behaviors and life outcome on feminists, or any person/group of people other than one’s own self is very unmanly in itself, with all due respect.
Look, what I’m trying to say is that this whole “manly men” thing doesnt matter. It’s a societal construct. People are more complicated than that. I’m a feminine guy myself, actually. We make great artists, musicians, and psychologists. Kurt Cobain for example, who is loved and revered for his influence on music, was a very feminine guy. It didnt get in the way of people liking him. There are benefits to it too. In the eyes of society, yeah, it’s not very manly to care about what other people think of you, or to be sensitive, etc. But who cares? It’s OKAY to be a feminine guy. There’s nothing at all wrong with it in the bigger picture. What matters more is what we do with that, and that we treat ourselves with love and acceptance anyway. Accepting one’s self as a feminine guy is more “manly” than trying to be someone you’re not out of a perceived sense of inferiority.
All I’m trying to say, is love yourself anyway. There’s nothing wrong with you.
When I have to quote statements from my passage to explain a point, I get the sense people didn’t read it and just got triggered by the title. I understand you think you are feminine but you don’t understand what I mean by feminine. Let me quote your statement.
QUOTE: ” There are benefits to it too. In the eyes of society, yeah, it’s not very manly to care about what other people think of you, or to be sensitive, etc. But who cares? It’s OKAY to be a feminine guy”
Being sensitive isn’t feminine, showing affection isn’t being feminine, wanting to care isn’t being feminine, it’s being human and dare I say being a philanthropist. What I mean by feminine is men who’s actions are not distinguishable from a female, e.g. applying make up, wanting to participate in sororities, thinking they look “pretty” and “gorgeous”, these traits that society would be consider “Homosexual” but I wouldn’t call it homosexual behavior because homosexuality has no behavior. Yet they define themselves as straight. This is what I’m saying that in such a case the person does not understand themselves, because it’s one thing to be sensitive and another to be female-minded. Let me even quote what I said.
QUOTE: ” I’ll be honest, feminine men don’t know what they’re doing”
You simply want to be a man when you act female. All I’m saying is being a man isn’t the same as being male. Being male has to do with genital make up. Being a man is a character in essence, you might not agree but that’s how I and many others see it.
Maybe I’m wrong, but heres the thing, a male has more of the hormone testosterone than females. Testosterone does the following
>According to science it affects behaviorial traits and inspires competitiveness
>It increases muscle mass and bone density
>Helps men burn fat effectively
>The voice deepens
Etc. Just a few.
This is human biology. All those traits prepare the male species for a particular role. So for you to take all those enhancements and say I will not use any of them is denying who you are.
According to research by Duke University they determined the following, “A deeper voice also leads to credibility. People with deep voices will sound stern, commanding and confident naturally.”
That has nothing to do with social norms, but it’s an innately instinctive imprint in the human mind. To listen to deeper voices. Even animals do this, it’s basic wiring. The deeper the voice, the lower the pitch and the louder the voice inspires attention. A lions roar is naturally intimidating because of it low pitch and reverberation. That’s the exact logic behind male development.
Summary: I could go on and I have no problem discussing and using science. I am not just opinionated, I also research and consider what doesn’t agree with my opinions.
Like I said to @cause-of-death-suicide , I have nothing against women equality. But feminism is bullying in its finest. You just want to step on men, and claim its equality? Who’s being hypocritical is all I can say.
@mac-10toschool
What are manly things, what are not? The more I try to think about it, the more subjective the question seems to be. I can’t really think of anything that was somehow objectively manly. Best I can do is observe that men tend to do these things more often, but that’s just statistics and not really the point.
I would agree with you if science didn’t expand and say otherwise. Like I said to @mac-10toschool it’s not just men deciding to act manly, it’s hormonal and testosterone affects men in a particular way, to say the least it does the following
>It has been proven to affect aggression and mood
>It inspires competitiveness in males
>It deepens the voice
>It affects sex drive considerably higher than the sex drive in women
>It is a hormone remarkably similar to adrenalin (epinephrine) and in the same way that adrenalin inspires focus, and lessens adherence to emotional stimulus ( in other words, when you’re in flight or fight mode you hardly ever worry about anything else), It tenses the body etc. Testosterone does all that but over a longer period of time (A males life).
There’s a different between being a man and being a jerk. What society considers manly is often aggression, anger, insensitivity. That’s not it. Being male is more complex than that and those are just exaggerations of the real thing. Males yes tend to be more aggressive than females, but not the way the media portrays it, it’s less aggression and more competiveness, a desire not to be left behind in any field.
Summary: Anyway you asked what are manly things? Nothing. But there are manly behaviors because females and males experience different levels of Testosterone and oestrogen and progesterone. In short, this is more complicated that what you think is manly behavior, it goes down to biological make up.
@sdasdfdasds
We agree on the symptoms, but the causes of those symptoms are the question. There is the issue that keeps coming up of the recession of male role models. The art of fatherhood is on the decline out of lack of people practicing it.
Men have just as much a place in the march against humanity as anyone. There are men failing to adapt everywhere, in positions of authority and following leaders to disaster.
We as humans must adapt or die, to those of us with depression that is the literal state. I’ve worked alongside women and can appreciate their abilities and strengths. It’s actually pleasant because women are quicker to speak up about an unjust workplace, or an inappropriate attitude. In the field I work in women are glad to give men room to be men.
I’m studying in a field that is desperate for me, health care. The field of healthcare is well stocked with compassionate and caring women. What it lacks is effective men, masculine men. Such people need allies and health care providers. The employers already know this and are encouraging all the men that can prove talent in certain areas to study up and come take lucrative jobs.
It would actually be nice if we as a society started recognizing the role that women have to play in traditionally male industries. There are plenty of young women who are talented in the sciences, but are pushed out by insecure men. They(women) aren’t taking our place. If we are insecure and try and hold them out we put ourselves out of work, because working in an organization requires putting organizational needs above personal ones(within reason.)
If we want more empathetic and compassionate employers, we need women working in these businesses.
I’m actually wondering whether it’s the way I said what I said, or that maybe you didnt read my whole statement, or you only chose to look at what you wanted to see.
Like I commented on @cause-of-death-suicide comment.
QUOTE: “Feminist should fight for equality but don’t be saying who’s better. The only men who support feminists are feminine men and men who have something to lose. We (I, myself and many other men genuinely) support the fight for equality but am not gonna sit down and have women say she is the ultimate gender and best among all, we are equal. We may excel in different fields but we are equal.”
Feminism is bullying in its finest. They don’t want equality, that’s the problem. They say stuff like “women are smarter than men” or “women are only true gender” or “women are what keep the world together”. This isn’t trying to be equal, this reversing the oppression. Feminists just want to step on men, and claim its equality? Stop trying to be better than men. That’s feminism problem. Just aim for equality.
I’m here to support equality, I’m here to be ruled over my women (I don’t mean work wise or anything) I mean I am fighting for women so they can do to us men, what men in the past did to them.
I once saw a talkshow where a woman said “we don’t need men” (she was a feminist), “men are inferior and women have always been better”
I could go on but you should get the point by now
@heartlessviking
There’s always been confusion, and there’s always a social ideology trying to push people in certain directions. The ideology’s just changed is all. Where once it was a patriarchal Christianity trying to beat the gay out of people, it’s now a strangely hypersensitive amalgam of identity politics attempting to eliminate any remotely harmful expression of opinion.
Be who you want to be, and allow others the same freedom. Where it gets squirrelly is when one group starts unilaterally declaring the preferences of another group ‘sinful’ or ‘toxic’. Unless it directly inhibits your freedom of action, it’s none of your business. That way we can all get along.
Be as macho as you want, and don’t concern yourself with the choices of those who wish to be more feminine.
to put in simply,woman want a better career opportunities,and all man can do
but I think there’s a man who is tired of job,want to be like girl just nursing and enjoy at home.
man is feeling unrespect because of such circumstances.like feeling job and responsibility from a man is really a kind of joke.
yeah sometimes I f**king annoyed because of that
If you read my statement you know that I support equality. The feminism I am targetting is the one that say women are superior to men, they don’t want equality but they want to do to us what men did to them in the past. That’s what’s contributing to male suicide, because women are fighting the very men who want to help them get equality. It’s like they were given an equal seat and now they want to take over everything and make it seem like being a man is “a curse”.
I can’t support such. I am proud to be a man, women should be proud to be women. We should join the fight for equality. Not this feminism that says “women are better than men”
@brokenhaze
I think u’re seeming to misunderstanding about equity and equality
equality means they only want the positive from one side
equity means they want the positive as well as the negative one and balanced
today woman equality wants the only benefit and same opportunities from man but neglecting the responsibility and etc that makes superior than men
so basically u want equity instead of equality
sorry for the bad grammar.
that’s my opinion though..
It’s really stupid how a thing that affects so much of our lives is determined by a coinflip more or less…. It upsets me quite a bit. Physical sex and gender are not kind things that play nicely together then you have people who are actually jerks.
Also I’m pre sure men have always had a higher suicide rate than women, not that that would really even matter…. Men are more likely to die at every age, that death is more likely to be violent too, also they are far less likely to receive care from first responders than women are (if there is a lack of them at an emergency the women are going to receive treatment first), also more likely to be homeless or go to prison…. It’s stupid. And nobody really cares about men, and really never will….
To be fair I probably see this more than other people and my view may be a bit distorted seeing as I absolutely hate that I was born male. It’s still stupid that we can not choose either way to be born male or female. Life is unfair, and then you die.
Tbh, being born male or female. It will always be hard. You don’t get a free ride, but you only get one gender.
Look that’s what you get when you’re born. You never made the system, it existed before you and will continue long after you’re gone. I wouldn’t waste my time crying over spilled milk.
From what I see you hate being male because of the responsibilities that come with it. But wouldn’t that be hypocritical, that you want to be female so you can benefit off the attention and care that females get? I don’t know if you’re a feminist but if you believe in equality, you would have different reasons why you hate being male.
But I respect your opinion. And wish you the best in your struggles.
@shatterediris
@shatterediris
According to statistics, men are far more likely to die in workplace accidents than women.
If I were a male, nobody would spit on me. I’d be beyond nothing. Although sometimes I still do think of getting a gender change (not that I’d be able to afford one)
Both genders have their own challenges, I guess.
I have noticed hidden discrimination against men over the years… it just happens.
(RE Nobody would spit on me (its an expression): I doubt anyone would’ve paid attention to me if I were a male) well yeah you are probably right I’d probably be picked on if I were male. I would’ve never ever had any girlfriend. The only reason I’ve ever had someone is because I’m female.
Well yes males are not expected to cry or have emotions, which in turn if they don’t feel good they feel there is nowhere to turn.
I have this confident ‘front’ to try and stand up for myself, because society can’t help being society. *shrug
If my answer is irrelevant and/or all over the place and/or goes on a tangent…. apologies, that’s just who I am.
@princessmousy3
I don’t think that would change anything. People would still spit on you if you were male, the only way to make it stop is to stand up for yourself. If you can’t do that as a female then it will be worse as a male. In society men are always testing each other for weakness, and being of the idea society has created that men can take anything, life gets very nasty. It’s about the spirit of the person and not the gender. I think you can still be happy and not take shit from people, and people will help you fight when you make a stand. There’s nothing wrong with needing help. I personally use my strength when I can to assist, not save, but assist because at the end of the day only you can save you from what struggle face.
End Note: Apologies for intruding on your reply to @shatterediris , but kinda felt like saying something.
Interesting discussion. Yeah, I agree that one result of the feminist movement is the emasculation of males, in that men are now for the most part expected to be more tolerant of women and less dominating / domineering. Isn’t that the whole point of the movement?
I’m in my 50’s and could care less about being a dominant macho alpha male asshole who needs to lord his manliness over anyone. Used to be a different story, but it’s amazing what happens when ones testosterone level drops with age, and it isn’t boosted or replenished because a bunch of inane muscle heads on a TV commercial dictate that “just because you’re an old fart doesn’t mean you can’t get 18 year old girls.” Gimme a break. I’m happier than heck to be out of that stage, and I can concentrate on being the real me – a cat and kitten loving man who is very much in touch with his feminine side, and is also a lifelong bachelor because he’s too much of a child to maintain a relationship with a woman. That’s me, for better or worse, I can deal with it, and wouldn’t revert to the testosterone fueled phony I was for the majority of my life.
Feminism, in my opinion, is nothing more than female humans standing up and announcing that they’re tired of being treated poorly. What’s wrong with that? Isn’t that everyone’s wish? If the result is a confused segment of the male population, wondering what is and isn’t appropriate, then it seems to me that the feminist movement is effective.
@once
I respect your choice and I have read every comment in detail to make sure I am not missing anything. I responded accordingly to what I understood. But it is not giving me much enthusiasm when people are trying to do the same with my post. I’m not saying you didn’t read but you didn’t consider what I wrote concerning feminism.
QUOTE: “Now here’s the thing, a big mistake we make as males is to think feminism has no reason to exist. IT DOES. I agree in part that women deserve broader opportunities in work and relationships”
My issue has never been with the feminist movement. It’s been with the “American” feminist movement that isn’t seeking equality but is trying to take away men as a whole.
The emasculation of males isn’t in making them less domineering. It is saying we as males are “a curse” as they say. They consider the male species as being lesser than women. I am not a domineering man, I would never impose my presence on female, or treat her like she isn’t my equal. There is nothing I see in woman that makes me say to myself “I am better than her”. I only use logic and reasoning. I am into fitness myself and approaching my middle age. When a woman cannot lift her bags at an airport, am I supposed to leave her to struggle because she’s my equal? Of course that doesn’t make sense, me being capable of accomplishing more physically demanding tasks than women doesn’t make me better.
That’s what I want feminism to understand. That this a fight for equality, which they have forgotten and become bitter and cagey. They are like a boxer in corner coming out swinging at everything. I respect women but I can’t stand a women who thinks she’s better than me, when I don’t think I’m better than her.
Feminists here make it seem like men “are the problem” that every male is supposed kiss their feet and prostrate themselves. They want the benefits of being taken care of while also asking us to call them “better”? I think women are equal, I will help them carry their bags when they can’t but that’s not because they are female, I would do it for any person.
Feminists need to remember it’s about equality, that’s what I said. The way they are making men feel bad for being men, that’s what affecting men around the world. They need to go after the men who did all these things, fight the domineering mindset of men, we will support them, but don’t say “Men are a curse” like every male has something to do with their pain.
End Note: And none of the things you said you do are feminine. That’s simply being a person. I explained what the “feminine men” are in my comment to @mac-10toschool and I will quote it below.
QUOTE: Being sensitive isn’t feminine, showing affection isn’t being feminine, wanting to care isn’t being feminine, it’s being human and dare I say being a philanthropist. What I mean by feminine is men who’s actions are not distinguishable from a female, e.g. applying make up, wanting to participate in sororities, thinking they look “pretty” and “gorgeous”, these traits that society would be consider “Homosexual” but I wouldn’t call it homosexual behavior because homosexuality has no behavior. Yet they define themselves as straight. This is what I’m saying that in such a case the person does not understand themselves, because it’s one thing to be sensitive and another to be female-minded. Let me even quote what I said. I said : ” I’ll be honest, feminine men don’t know what they’re doing”
I don’t worry about “masculinity” – I have never been a hypermasculine man, and that ideal does not particularly appeal to me.
It does, however, appeal to women. A lot. To the extent that if you don’t fit it, you’re pretty much toast on the dating circuit.
Which is why it’s so retarded that feminists, who don’t know the first thing about science, and are clueless about – and indifferent to – men’s experiences, constantly attack men.
The bad behavior you see in men is chiefly encouraged – and perpetuated – by women rewarding the men in question with attention, sexual gratification and companionship – at the expense of men who are not like that. This is the so-called “nice guy” lament, and if there wasn’t some truth to it, it wouldn’t exist.
Meanwhile, men as a group are blamed for a minority of men’s actions. And who shoulders most of the blame? Well, obviously it’s the undesirable men, the men who have already been rejected by women take one more for “the team”. But there is no team. It has gotten to a point where we’re living in a society that not only ignores low-status men, but actively attacks them.
For shame.