If you’ll have to live forever in unthinkable pain, enduring every bit of negative thoughts of every person on earth, for the world to be bright and beautiful, complete utopia, would you do it?
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yes. I suppose that’s why I’m alive so far. Not that the entire world will be utopia but I know by living im saving a few from hell. Thanks for this reminder.
My own pain/suffering is enough for me to handle. I certainly couldn’t take on the world’s and why should people be happy at the expense of one person suffering?
Is there a Jesus reference in there somewhere? You should watch Christopher Hitchens vids on Jesus and vicarious suffering, you’ll find it interesting I believe.
I oppose all suffering. A little is needed to make us better humans but not endless pointless pain/misery.
it helps me to think of Utopia as not just for humans but mainly for the countless lifeforms humans are causing suffering to, and they can’t fight back. I would definitely take one for that team.
@NE, well I wouldn’t want or allow anyone to suffer on my behalf so that I can selfishly have a good life while knowing one person is in a cell somewhere suffering for me.
Yes humans are evil and stupid and we cause animals to suffer also. But the reason we don’t live in a utopian society is because of humans fighting each other for power/resources. Also because of ideologies like capitalism/communism and religions like Christianity and Islam.
The only utopia we can get is when we are beyond money and ideologies. In capitalism if you’re rich then you’re free of the ‘system.’ If we can make a new system where we don’t need capitalism or money, then more people can be free.
The trouble is that we need people to work in stores, build cars, etc. So it’s pretty much unavoidable that people will have to work one way or another.
I guess we need to get used to the idea that in a human paradise on Earth work might be required. Classes still might exist, hard to avoid….and they’re also a source of suffering.
So unfortunately the only way out of the ‘rat-race’ is to get rich, or live like a hermit.
True, the only feasible way out of the rat race is a selfish (self-centered) existence. I say ‘feasible’ because there’s another way out: for everyone to embrace the idea of sacrifice without bitterness. That’s why I always think of animals. Animals generally don’t fight amongst their own species because they aren’t bitter that life is easier for others in the herd. A worker ant doesn’t lead a violent rebellion against the queen just because she’s not doing her share of work. They each accept a role however high or low on the scale, and they’re fine with it.
Humans will never have this sort of communal belonging as much as we like to think we’re a communal species. We’re programmed with things like jealousy, hate, and the need to inflict pain. And like you said, these things turn us against ourselves in the form of righteous ideologies. Utopia will never exist as long as humans exist because we’re flawed at the most fundamental level.
My idea of Utopia would be a world without humans. Give the planet back to the lifeforms who ran the planet just fine for 4 billion years before we demolished it within the space of a hundred. So I sorta interpreted the question as: if you could save the planet from humans but you have to live in pain, would you do it? I would. It’s the only thing that would validate my own POS life.
I think humans are coming to a point that we’ll be a space-faring species so that we’ll be able to colonize other planets in the next few centuries once we’re advanced enough.
I wouldn’t call the state before humans a utopia, because animals were steal (and are) killing/eating each other. It’s just that we became the dominant species.
However I prefer that humans are around because we’re the only way that the universe can know itself and our existence is unique and interesting, there’s nothing else quite like it.
The trouble which you’ve also touched on is human conflict, greed, suffering, etc. I believe many of those things can be managed in time.
Another huge problem is overpopulation. There’s really no need for 8 billion people. Most of them are poor and suffering way more than we can imagine in the West.
It’s because most poor people are uneducated and don’t have the common sense not to have kids, so they pass on their misery/poverty to their children and the pattern continues.
At the same time, I don’t think it makes sense for handful of people to hoard trillions of dollars for themselves and use it to use people as pawns.
I think the best of our species, the most resilient, smart, attractive, etc should get to pass their genes on. And we only need at most a billion people but smaller populations are adequate. There are industries we need, like defense, food, medicine, engineering, housing, banking, etc to provide for all our needs.
Then you can get societies at a steady-state population. We should be at least a 2-3 planet species in case a giant rock or neutron star/black hole, destroys the Earth.
*still, not steal….excuse the poor grammar.
No. But then I’m pretty self-centred. Maybe some people would be up to that level of sacrifice.
could I be really sassy and sarcastic about it sometimes? Then yes, that would be fine.
my main issue right now is that people aren’t interested in how dark and horrid my thoughts are, and I don’t see how they can share their toxic positivity, but I can’t share the story about the day I fantasized of running down the street whacking people with my own disembodied arm, dancing and screaming wildly! I’m smiling thinking about it, and not much makes me smile these days.
No.
We need technology, shelter, clothes and even cooked food to exist on a perfect for life planet. We a so utterly weak, a physical joke, and mentally breakable by the simplest of forces. It’s not hard to imagine that humans are designed, specifically purposed to suffering.
Animals are higher than us in all ways, our self proclaimed smarts and intelligence are ineffective given that we still have to survive (money/trade) despite our invention.
No, humanity is the mistake and perhaps I’d endure suffering to ensure not a single soul more is subjected to this horrible existence, in being made part of a pitiful planet killing disease.
Unimaginable pain so yes
Also hi