If I could beat 1 delusion out of the mental health profession, it’s the stupid idea that “every suicide is preventable”
That’s like saying “every murder is preventable” or “every war is preventable”. Face it, all of these types of death–suicide, murder, war–are part of what it means to be a human. So any fool claiming to reduce suicide to 0 is as silly as some teen beauty pageant where they say “my dream is world peace”. Sure, exterminate all humans and then you’ll have 0 suicide, 0 murder and 0 wars.
So if we accept that suicide is just something that hits a certain percentage of us, that some of us are, in effect, marked for death, then I suppose the only thing we can do is accept it the same way we accept death itself.
No fool, not even the airiest beauty pageant contestant will say “my dream is 0 death”. We just accept that it’s going to happen, and maybe(?) that makes it easier to bear than if we were vainly trying to cure what can never be cured.
I’ve known since age 5 that I’m going to kill myself. Never been a question, even during happy times. In fact, the thought of a “peaceful” death in bed disgusts me. The thought of going “gentle into that goodnight” is to me as pathetic as singing campfire songs about peace when the invaders are torching your village.
I’m 100% going to kill myself. The only questions are when, and how much can I accomplish before then.
Ironically you can’t ask for help by telling this to anyone. You can’t say “Hey Mr. Smithers, I really want to work on this project and I’ll do a damn fine job, but I may inexplicably jump off a bridge, so let’s make sure all my files are backed up and you have someone ready to take over.” Not only will that get me thrown out of any company, it’ll get me locked up so I won’t even be able to do anything with my time left alive.
And this is why I isolate. I isolate so hard that the mailman doesn’t know who I am. Unfortunately isolation accelerates the suicide. If any of you are familiar with the old Star Trek movies, I’m trapped, by society’s own foolishness if not my own, in the Kobayashi Maru.
11 comments
Well, yes and no. I agree that the vast majority of suicides ARE 100% preventable.
The problem is that society does not give two shits to actually do anything to prevent suicide, or the things that lead to suicide.
Why do people commit suicide? Most people commit suicide because of issues like money, loneliness, lack of purpose etc. And for older people, Health-.These three/four are probably the main reasons why people are depressed and suicidal.
If you don’t have people who love you, if you don’t have enough money and are always struggling, if you don’t have a purpose, or reason to live, then yeah you’re going to be depressed and suicidal.
Can society help with all that above? Yes – if they want to. But certainly not in the United States, no. People don’t give two shits about other people here in the US, let alone our government who is very unwilling to do a single thing to help the poor, the homeless, the hungry, the sick etc.
Wages are purposely suppressed by the wealthy fuckers. Most people are struggling with money issues, whether it’s a horrible job they must suffer through, or struggling to pay the rent, living in a shit neighborhood, living in this shit apartment, Not being able to go out and have fun because they require spending money, etc. At a minimum HALF of suicides have something to do with money, if not 75%.
Yes loneliness is a real thing. Many ppl who commit suicide don’t have real friends or a SO or family. Which not having money also hampers. Like you can’t go out if you have no money. Can’t make friends or find a SO. I mean yes it’s possible to find them online, but eventually you have to meet up in person.
For ex, for me, I became super lonely only after I became poor. Because no one wants to be near poor people. And this is BEFORE I became disabled. So I was just poor before. When your poor people don’t want to be near you, they don’t want to hang out with you, they don’t want to be friends with you, they certainly don’t want to be your romantic par.t.ner, And most definitely don’t want to help a poor person in any way shape or form. This is America. Most people are extremely selfish, heartless, and cruel. They few who are willing to help people. I know that does not mean just “volunteering at the soup kitchens” Which is just BS virtue signaling.
Like if People truly cared, then yes there would be way less suicide.
All it takes to stop someone from killing themselves is to make them feel they are heard, Or at the bare minimum, treated like a human being. Which most people are not being treated as.
People have to feel valued. Like their life means something to someone. Even a stranger can listen to someone and make that someone feel better and less suicidal, despite listening. If society actually cared, this is what people would do. But nah, not Americans. If you dare say something, people get pissy at you first “complaining.”
If people truly cared, they would be better friends to their friends, or to strangers. If you go to other countries, people are way better than Americans because Americans as well as the British are very very selfish. Very “I”. It’s always me me me versus “us” in other countries.
Also, in other countries, there is a social safety net work. So people don’t go hungry. People have a place to live and I don’t have to sleep in cars the way millions of working Americans do.
If society really cared about “preventing suicide “then all they need to do is set up more funding for food stamps and such. But Americans are such liars. Nobody wants to “help the poor. “America’s away too damn selfish to do that. What are you gonna raise the minimum wage. Which would help lift millions- many many millions- out of poverty. But nah, “Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.”
It’s shit like that that makes people want to commit suicide in the United States. Because corporations don’t give a fuck about people, other people don’t give a fuck about other people. There isn’t much humanity left here.
Are suicides preventable ? Well most are. But that shit certainly ain’t happening here.
Definitely some are preventable, but certainly not all. And yet there are too many people who think “all suicides are preventable”. While I applaud them for their delusional optimism (no sarcasm, optimism is worth a standing ovation in this shit world), the sentiment tries to group everyone in the preventable categories.
I called the suicide hotline once and the operator spent 10 mins trying to convince me I’m valuable, not listening to what I was really saying. Ultimately I had to stop and say, “Listen, I know I’m valuable. That doesn’t change the reason why I want to kill myself.” And the operator, evidently having no script to fall back on, was like “I don’t know how to help you.”
I’m one of those marked for death. And I know I’m not the only one. The reason why I’m lowkey obsessed with “high functioning suicide” that happens to athletes, professionals, scientists, entertainers and artists who are amazing at their craft is that their suicides are not preventable.
Case in point: Wallace Carothers, the inventor of nylon. Successful as fuck, respected as fuck, by all accounts rich as fuck (or at least well paid), surrounded by colleagues and friends, with access to the best doctors, could not be saved. His own doctor said years before his suicide that there’s nothing that can help the guy.
Granted, he’s like 0.0001% of the population and that’s why the profession largely sweeps him, and me, and anyone else who needs more than money, love, success as a reason to exist, under the rug.
I know, statistically that I don’t count. But it’s an extra insult to hear people saying and behaving like all suicides are preventable. That all we want is a hug and a lollipop and we’ll come down off the bridge railing.
Also, Most wars are preventable. Look at all the wars that America engages in. Not a single one of them necessary. Every single one of them preventable.
But we have corrupt people in charge and corrupt people at the top who make a shit ton of money on wars and selling weapons. When your business is making money off of death and worse and suffering, this is what you get an America that is all about war after war after war after war. These people are making billions. BILLIONS.
So yes about 99% of all wars are preventable.
Hard disagreement there.
War is nothing but crime on a national level, agreed? One country wants to steal land or resources, or commit a hate crime against another country.
So if we grasp that war is driven by the mechanism of crime (wanting what the other guy has, or wanting to hurt the other guy), you can immediately see that war will always exist, just like hate and envy will always exist. It’s baked into our genes.
Hard, hard, HARD disagree that wars are preventable. But feel free to prove me wrong and create world peace.
If you isolate, then I’m sure your mailman “knows” you by all the stuff you order online or by delivery lol :p
He literally doesn’t. That’s why I said it. Fake name. Nobody fucking knows me.
“So if we accept that suicide is just something that hits a certain percentage of us,“
>>Suicide rates are very very very low in some countries. And it is extremely high in the US.
>>For most people- not saying you- there is a fix or way out. Some people just want to have enough money so they’re not always struggling. Some people want a better job. Some people just wanna get out of their shitty neighborhood or state. Some people are suicidal because they are lonely and don’t have someone. If they found that someone, then yes, that suicide would be preventable. Most people aren’t “marked for death. “
For the vast majority of people it is situational – if the situation is improved then yes, they would be way less depressed and less suicidal.
But I get what you’re saying as this post is more about you feeling that you’re “marked for death” as opposed to the majority of the population.
For most people, it is situational. If they’re situation of circumstances improve, and if their lives improve, then they won’t be suicidal. That’s most ppl.
Ofc I’m not saying everyone. I’m not going to argue and say that that isn’t the case for you.
I do think that if you found a “worthwhile venture “to focus your efforts on, or if you found someone who truly understands you and found a SO, I don’t think you’d be as suicidal.
I’m not saying you’ll magically be happy happy and everything will be perfect. But I do think you’ll be less depressed and less inclined to off yourself. Not saying zero chance, just less.
That much is very true. If I’m engaged in some worthwhile venture (to me at least) and I’m not completely alone (meaning my efforts are somehow noticed–not totally pointless) then I think I could brave a lot more injuries and suffering.
Maybe it’s like what they said about Jeffrey Dahmer. He had the makings of a psycho murderer from the beginning (‘marked’) but for a while he enlisted in the army which gave him a sense of purpose and he was able to function more or less normally. It was after he got discharged that he went full psycho.
Same here except my psycho murdering is completely turned inward. I’m probably not the only one either.
The question is how long can the inevitable be held off?
“He had the makings of a psycho murderer from the beginning ”
Eh, after watching so many true crime vids, we see that there aren’t just these psycho Jeffrey Dahmer types out there murdering ppl- MOST of these ppl in these vids look like your normal next door neighbors or your local nurse. I mean there’s a WHOLE ass series on Killer Nurses. Tons and tons and tons of “normal” ppl turn out to be serial killers.
I think EVERY human has the potential to be a “psycho murderer.” We are just kidding ourselves when we think there’s only “a few bad apples” when in reality, ALL humans have the capacity to do evil and kill- even yes, your elderly grandma next door. In fact, there ARE true crime episodes where there’s elderly grandma’s offing homeless ppl to get the insurance money. No one found out for years/decades bc no one suspected “innocent little grannies.”
ALL humans are capable of murder. And most of them hide in plain sight bc very few “look” like obvious serial killers.
I mean, from that standpoint some people are just going to OD, regardless of how effective doctors are, and how effective education programs are. You’ve got people who are going to use drugs that way because humans have that relationship with drugs, and ODing is part of the Faustian bargain that is made to keep some people alive and functioning using psychoactive substances.
Which isn’t to say I disagree, it’s just that harm reduction is going to fight against it until the end of time. Alcohol has a lot of benefits to ordinary people, but some people are going to use it to end themselves, and according to the argument that we’re making here it’s going to keep happening until the sun explodes. Just as an example, there are far worse psychoactive substances, but alcohol is the one that is going to keep killing people for the longest.
And we keep discovering more substances, it’s not that we are actually decreasing harm, we’re actually expanding the horizon. If you could get drunk on a version of Prozac, you would. I have tons of it, and I know I wish I knew what to do with the stuff. People abuse THC, and every psychoactive substance that is on the market.
Getting out of your mind, that’s what humans want. Grinding down the body, that’s the result. So, my point is, that’s a path to death that will always be available. Nicotine of course is the Cadillac of chemicals for that effect, and has ended more human lives than I can count.
Happiness is temporary, and if you seek it via chemicals it comes with a cost. Someone has to pay the piper.
Anyway, when I was training doing my BS in psychology it was pretty much nailed into me that a committed suicidal person could not be stopped. You can stop someone while they are in a facility, that’s what facilities are for, but once they discharge, nope, they’ll attempt again and if they’re smart they’ll do it quietly.
Lots of suicidal people probably do quietly do so, and it’s something that frustrates suicide statistics. They often are in situations where they need to protect their life insurance, so they do it in a way that doesn’t look like suicide. They might even get help from a second person, then is that murder? It gets complicated.
It’s hard to tell if a person was really suicidal in that situation. I saw this whole true crime story where the cops were convinced that the guy killed himself for a long time, but it turned out it was murder. He was heavily intoxicated and abused before his death and whether he could make an informed decision was determined to be not sufficient.
The lady involved was a serial killer. She liked to find men with poor self esteem and abuse them until they were vulnerable enough to kill.
Remember my post about being a friend of death? This lady was way too close to death, she loved death and wanted to introduce a lot of people to death. I guess that’s probably pretty common for serial killers.
That at least I think we could stop or at least slow, the amount of killers in the United States is awful, and we could do way more about that. The worst killers remain the kind that sit behind a desk, and we need to start punishing those with punishments equal to the kind that don’t sit behind a desk. A killer is a killer, they all deserve to be stopped.
Well, I guess I’m making an exception for if you are a killer of yourself and only yourself. There is a problem that a fair amount of suicidal people go for murder/suicide, and that’s got to be stopped entirely. I mean, if you’re a murder suicide type and you destroy your whole family, what gives you the right to do that? nothing.
You can kill yourself, I’ll grant that because no one can stop you, but the minute you start killing your husband/wife and kids then we’ve got contagion. Where does it end? You could extend it to your whole office, the whole block, the whole damn city, which I don’t care for my city but I’m not giving you permission damn it.
I’d give you a land mine if it’d only kill you, but I wouldn’t give you a nuke, especially Tzar Bomba. You aren’t plunging us all into nuclear winter just because you personally don’t want to be here anymore.
It’s a question of proportion. It’s kind of like how silicon valley doesn’t have the right to wipe out humanity just because of how obsessed it is with AI. The rest of us have plenty of good reason to keep the world going, just because one city wants to invest in clearly anti social technology. Well, more than one city is investing in that horribly anti social tech, but that problem is astoundingly huge.
The question, I think is whether the species is marked for death, just because a large amount of people are ready to take whatever comfort is so delicious. I’m all for comfort, but there are comforts and there are comforts.
Some comforts can keep you stable, other comforts have only one application; killing a whole lot of humans.
So you might not get around to killing yourself. The comforts sought out by certain reckless boomers and millenials might get there first. The math is what I’m looking at. Machine intelligence is a proven killer.