I can’t figure out why that still astonishes me. Clearly i have encountered this aspect of reality, countless times… but each further encounter, with such things, continues to astonish me.
And i realize this must be some kind of “flaw” in my perception or cognition… but i just can’t seem to avoid being astonished by that, for which i’ve already seen plenty of evidence to justify a reasonable and unwavering expectation.
It’s troubling to me, even on a personal level, because i realize i shouldn’t be astonished, due to the sum total of all my experiences, and the plethora of seemingly endless evidence and indications, serving to suggest that i should expect to encounter stupidity on a regular basis. And yet, as i encounter expected stupidity, as expected, i somehow still find myself astonished by it.
This is astonishing. The stupidity is astonishing. I’m astonished at my own astonishment.
Just…
Wow…
74 comments
Its guess its hard to believe that there are legitimately stupid people in this world.
Oh well, doesnt a world full of stupidity seem so wonderful. 🙂
It’s not so much that i “don’t believe it,” but rather that i’m surprised that it still manages to cause the same astonishment reaction, even though i “know” it’s coming. Why can’t i just be numb and indifferent to it? Why does it have to upset me, even when i know it’s coming, and don’t want to be upset by it?
And no, actually (and i suppose you were being sarcastic)… the world full of stupidity does not seem so wonderful; not at all.
I have no idea where i can go to find people who don’t constantly assault and bombard me with upsetting degrees of stupidity on a regular basis. Where can i find people like that? Who can i even ask, where i might even begin, to find people like that? Seven billion people in the world, and i have no idea where to even begin to look, after 33 years observing and participating in “earth.”
Everywhere i look, there are people who make me not even want to be a person at all.
Where i can i go, where that doesn’t happen anymore?
Within yourself, Clevername. That is where the wisdom survives. As a species, humans on Earth are undeveloped. The only person you are responsible for is your self. Have you read any Octavia Butler? Try Lilith’s Brood, a series of three books that places the questions clearly, even though I’ll have to read them again to find a glimmer of answer. Most of my spiritual help toward survival on planet Earth has come from my study of Sufi mysticism. However, the head of the Sufi Order at the time I became acquainted with their ways was a non-religious free spirit of great wisdom. The Order has changed since then. At the time I was acquainted, there was no dogma, were no dues, and one was encouraged to be the free spirit one could be.
You’re amazed at the amount of stupid people and also that you’re continually astonished. What’s the definition of ignorance or stupid? Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
So, you’re doing something or simply walking along and some person (Curly) wanders in and does something stupid…like the Three Stooges. Zoink…you could grab his nose with one hand and slap it down with the other. Boink..or attempt to fork your fingers into his/her eyes while he/she puts their hand in front of their nose to block. Course then you counter with the famous two handed index finger jab to the eyes. Nice!
Walking along some time later and Larry comes and does another stupid thing. You, Moe, begin to grab his nose…but then, because you’re Moe and smarter then the average bear, you realize you’ve played this game before over and over. At some point you learn to just wave him off and shake your head and keep moving…maybe chuckle at the stupidity?
I understand.
But then again would you truly want to be numb and desensitized to it?
It probably upsets you to see stupidity becuase as much as we have progressed as a species and society as whole their still remains a degenerate and ever devolving populace.
Maybe you have a sense they are inferior to our species.
But yes, I was being sarcastic.
Self analyze. What kind of person are you? How do you define who you are? What makes you, well you? What are you interest? What kind of people will suit you best?
I think you best bet. An ivy league college or some area that involves people of higher education and experiences levels.
@randall:
Well… like i was sure i indicated, the astonishment is involuntary, and occurs despite a well established expectation.
It would seem absurd to expect myself to be astonished by exactly what i expect to encounter, wouldn’t it? Otherwise, what’s the point of expectation? And conversely, how is it even possible to have thoughts, in the absence of any expectation? How is it even possible to be completely devoid of any expectation, when the patterns and indications are so blatantly obvious?
Maybe that was always my problem: no matter how hard i may try, i just can’t seem to figure out how to be sufficiently ignorant.
Then again… intentionally facilitating my own ignorance, would seem to contradict my recursive astonishment.
I can and will easily forgive people for simply not knowing something… but when they incessantly ignore or deny something that should be obvious, in a way that prevents them from understanding why they should alter their behaviors or actions which negatively impact me… then i have a problem with it.
And once i realize someone is determined to reject what information would serve to curb their willfully ignorant detriment to me, i MUST define them as “evil,” because they are knowingly, intentionally, purposely doing it, while merely “claiming” not to “get” why they should not, knowing but disregarding the very clear indications that their resulting actions will indeed cause me detriment, which i did not choose, to which i did not consent, of which i do not approve.
@vedura: thanks for taking the time to respond. I thought about your comment for several minutes, but it all sort of fragmented, scattered and dissipated. I’m not really the book-reading type. Not that there’s anything wrong with reading books, it’s just not something i find particularly pleasant or enjoyable, so i rarely ever do it. I do most of my reading via the internet. How modernist and uppity, right? lol. I just don’t feel comfortable holding a physical book and angling my head and eyes downward for long periods of time. Makes my neck hurt, gives me a headache… plus, it’s rare that i actually feel motivated to read “a book.” I figure most of what is written is all rehashed and recolored wisdom, much of which i’ve already encountered through my own experiences in life. I’m often amused when people ask me if i’ve read any certain thing, because i usually haven’t. The last thing i actually tried to read, was Catcher in the Rye… and while i was somewhat interested in the story, and somewhat intrigued by the styling, i just didn’t feel like continuing past chapter 7. For probably 2+ years now, i’ve found it very difficult to stay more than briefly, superficially interested in any particular thing.
As for “finding it within…” well, while i have to agree there, it contradicts the fact that perpetual isolation is unhealthy after a certain point. I’m past that point. I need something good and right to happen, so i can build on that… but everywhere i look, everywhere i’ve been, everywhere i can be, from here… there is just too much that is too wrong for me to deal with, and too much disruption for me to just bypass anything i don’t want to deal with, so that i can actually make any progress.
My problem is the opposite. I’m constanly expecting stupidity and if I meet someone really intelligent, I can’t believe it.
@koji:
“…would you truly want to be numb and desensitized to it?”
In the absence of effective solutions, yes. Absolutely. If i can’t solve it, i don’t want to be affected by it at all. I don’t want to “feel” the way i feel, when i encounter what i can’t fix.
What “kind” of person am i? I don’t even know anymore. I don’t think i ever had a “kind” or a “type.” I’m a prototype. I’m a rare breed. They don’t make ’em like me.
I’m sure some people will read that and get upset, because they want to be “the unique one,” but honestly, i’d rather just be like everyone else, if such a thing were actually up to me to decide.
But being “unique” isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, by those who wish they could be.
And some of those same people will attempt to take it too far and insist that i’m not “THAT unique…” but i never said i was THAT unique. I’m just unique enough to easily see things most people apparently miss, some of whom have simply chosen to ignore what is obvious, for their own perceived and expected benefit, rather than being merely unable to perceive it.
I wish i could say “hey, it’s not about just being different…” but actually, that is exactly how it is. I am prejudged quite superficially, “just for being different,” before most people ever bother to figure out WHY and HOW i’m different, and stop to consider that MAYBE i have some special insight that others lack, which COULD be useful to them. But they either don’t want to understand that, or stop far short of that notion ever crossing their minds; they have already prejudged “different and therefore reject,” before they ever give themselves a chance to learn anything more or good. They see i’m not what they’re looking for, and/or they see that my expressions don’t match their preferred (and typically fantastical) paradigm, and so they automatically define me as “bad,” just because i’m not saying what they want me to say, for the reasons they want it said.
If i’m not what they want, boom, the rest doesn’t matter.
I’ve tried to counteract this, even tried to learn to “use it against itself” (ie: “fight fire with fire,” or like in tai chi methodology, using an opponent’s own momentum against themselves…), but it’s nearly impenetrable. Or they’re immune to their own reasoning and fallacies. It’s an endless fractal of paradoxes.
What it comes right down to, is this: i am just not the kind of person, or in the kind of circumstances, or with the kinds of opportunities, privileges and advantages, that anyone is looking for, regardless of all the variance among all the different types and styles of people who currently exist.
Something recently occurred to me: almost all of the people who’ve clearly and directly expressed an appreciation for my mind, intellect, or other such “intangible” traits… have vacated my life. Everyone who claims to like what i like about myself, goes away… or never arrives in the first place.
I used to honestly believe that my ideas, ideals, and influence, could at least gradually Change this world, in useful and widely beneficial ways. But then i realized… things are as they are, because “the elite” want it this way, and they do indeed have the power and inclination to limit the choices of the masses, in such a way that they can actually control how society develops; this is not a new concept, and it is called “social engineering.” Look it up. It’s been going on for a very, very long time… and it’s not going anywhere, anytime soon. Many more “rares” like myself, will come and go, before anything really changes… if anything that actually matters, ever really does change at all.
When i look around at the world, i do see “some” beauty… but the vast majority of what i see is profound amounts of wasted potential, and the patterns and tendencies indicate their own continuance.
Bodies in motion, tend to stay in motion. Bodies at rest, tend to stay at rest.
Things tend to keep going the ways they go, rather than changing drastically.
It takes a massively concerted effort, achieved only through critical mass, to “get that ball rolling.” Meanwhile, water flows downhill, through the path of least resistance… as most things do.
The funny thing is, i don’t have “higher education,” so such communities would just as soon reject me as most others.
I don’t fit in anywhere, because i’m not like anyone else.
Ironically, i’m unique… people act like they’re upset that i think i’m unique, like they’re jealous or something… but i can assure you, no one wants to be me. Not even i do. But “me” is all i can ever be, and i’d rather be “me” than anyone else. I’d surely swap circumstances or physical traits, though.
@breathx:
“My problem is the opposite. I’m constantly expecting stupidity and if I meet someone really intelligent, I can’t believe it.”
(ftfy)
I tend to feel awestruck when i encounter truly intelligent people.
“the smartest people sometimes do the dumbest things.”
There is one person i’ve encountered on this site, who has repeatedly blown my mind.
I bet that person knows who they are, even if i don’t say it. (not saying i don’t appreciate the intellect of the other obviously intelligent people here, just that one in particular tends to stand out quite a bit in my mind…)
Another one of my big problems is when i get so fed up with the time and effort required to desperately seek any effective distraction, in those moments when i just absolutely can’t stand everything, nothing is interesting, and all i want is to not feel, because all i feel is what i wish i didn’t, due to all the stuff i can’t change, to which i can’t figure out how to become either numb or indifferent, and/or both.
Those moments are agonizing and horrible. I’m so tired of them being an inevitable fixture in my life. It’s just yet another gap to bridge, yet another requirement to “build” a way to get to from where i don’t want to be, to where i don’t want to go: my life.
Who do you mean? Is it the same one I have in mind?
how would i know? i have no idea what’s in your mind. 😉
I’m a narcissist who hates himself that why usually only myself is in my mind but this time I’m thinking of someone but we’re obviously both too afraid of beeing considered as inferior to relinquish the name let’s face it.
clevername,
Ha ha! most people are stupid! That’s why it’s so easy for them to deal with life! In alot of cases It’s the smart people that realise what’s really going on and get depressed with reality. Most people on here are smart, I think the only problem is reality when it comes to life no matter how smart you are is unacceptable.
nah, i’m definitely inferior to the aforementioned individual, but i’m not trying to create a new idol, or send unwanted attention their way. The one i mean, doesn’t post or comment often.
I remember David455 who wrote some good comments some time ago. And he posted some Leonard cohen stuff that’s why I actually like him 😀
…perhaps my astonishment is a result of an artificial cognitive construct, erected subconsciously, involuntarily, in self-preservation, as a sort of “final stand,” to prevent me from losing the last shred of hope for improvement, which comes from refusing to allow humanity itself to completely destroy my ability to have faith in other people.
But i suppose i should clarify: when i say “stupid,” i’m more talking about absurd and frustrating and/or infuriating behavior, and not necessarily intelligence or lack thereof (though i’m sure there are links between/among those things).
The more literal term “stupid” should rarely, if ever, be used, to refer to someone with an incapably inferior mind. When i say “stupid,” i usually mean “someone who refuses learning and acts despite it,” rather than someone who merely lacks the capacity for understanding.
I get angry at “stupid people,” because i feel like they could learn better if they gave a shit… but they apparently don’t, which ends up causing me problems. And, by extension, those “stupid” people who insist they are right, when it’s obvious that they are unwilling to consider any alternate perspective, or allow new information to justify and facilitate better understanding, simply because they would then have to think something they don’t want to think, which, to them, somehow makes me a bad or unappealing person.
I’m not saying any names. And I’m not sure if stupidity is the bulk of her problem. Tbc
idk wtf a tbc is… if that’s supposed to be a disguised username acronymization, or some other new ‘net shorthand. It’s not ringing any bells, and i hope that doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings.
to be continued.
ohhh…
REMEMBER ALL THE ACRONYMS!!! 😀
…remember ALL the acronyms??? D:
I just don’t have the moxy to analyze her while absent from the conversation. But I feel she’s like a Beetlejuice character of sorts……says her name 3 times and she’ll appear. Or in her case….think of her. Hahahaha
(cringes)
this post wasn’t just about one person. The person to which BA has referred, is merely another tick on a chart filled with other ticks. Man that sounds way worse than i intended. Oh well.
And the person i said has repeatedly blown my mind, i meant in a good way.
Probably, well certainly the queen of ticks.
…another part of my astonishment comes from how there are just so many people who do those same things those same ways. It’s almost like it’s exactly the same person inhabiting millions of bodies at once. Like i said, this isn’t the first one of “those” i’ve encountered, and i’m sure it won’t be the last. But they seem to show up in my path, everywhere i go, or enter my field of vision, everywhere i can possibly look. I’m at the point where i’m tired of going anywhere or looking at anything, because the world is saturated with “those,” and i just know i’m going to encounter more of “those,” and i’m just so tired of it. What a horrible world this is. I can’t find any “right ones.” All i ever seem to encounter are the wrong ones, who always seem to only want to make me feel worse than i already do (and i really don’t need any help in that department)… and apparently, only to make themselves feel better, somehow… however that works.
I’ve never gotten how making someone else feel worse should make me feel better (cases of revenge against an instigating imposer, notwithstanding; successfully retaliating, against an aggressor, can indeed feel great).
“Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.” [1]
[1] Basic Laws of Human Stupidity, Rule #4.
lol… yes, but this occurs despite non-stupid people’s clear understanding of the potential for stupidity to cause profound amounts of detriment!
I think it’s a byproduct of trying to avoid the “everyone is stupid but me” paradigm. You think “okay, i shouldn’t think that, because surely, i can’t be the only non-stupid person… there must be a relatively sizable percentage of non-stupid people, and let’s arbitrarily apply the notion of “balance,” so that we can feel like we’re not woefully outnumbered by morons…”
But then, BAM, stupidity strikes again, while you’re trying to believe it’s not an overwhelmingly hopeless problem.
I don’t want to believe the degrees and amounts, or even types and styles of stupidity i’ve personally witnessed, actually exist and occur.
But… “the truth is out there.” Which is why i prefer to stay “in here.” It’s like being trapped in a house surrounded by zombies; they want to eat my braaaainnnzzzzz…
When I encounter this shit, it makes me wish I was born into a family of meerkats or something. I’m pretty sure they’re immune to human stupidity – not the effects of it, but to experiencing it themselves. I mean, they’re meerkats.
Oh, no, the Basic Laws of Human Stupidity are universal. It’s kind of paradoxical – even non-stupid people are stupid in their own way. Nobody is exempt, but the rules probably vary from individual to individual. I think the problem isn’t so much trying to avoid stupid people, because that’s clearly impossible, but rather trying to mitigate the damage they do and in a way understand why stupidity happens in the first place. One can’t move past a problem without first understanding it.
As to my comment about meerkats; I’m sure they’re exempt from human stupidity, but there probably is such a thing as meerkat stupidity, and I’m pretty sure it’s adorable at least some of the time. They eat bugs and live in holes in the ground, after all.
well… in response to that i’d say: i’ve seen some adorably stupid female humans in my life… occasionally there are positives, but those positives are dwarfed by comparison to all the negatives. Plus, i don’t benefit from those positives, so i’m ruling it irrelevant. Let’s make everyone non-stupid; i don’t care if that cock-blocks a few guys who were used to capitalizing on dumb chicks. Their loss, not mine. This is called unbiased and avoiding conflict of interest.
Beware of judging others too harshly. We’ve all succumbed to this pitfall. Maybe people are not stupid, but most times, as a collective whole they fail to have the ability to perceive things as any one individual might. Human beings are fallible and every single one of us makes mistakes, even those who consider themselves to possess some level of intelligence and understanding.
I wish there would be some way to convey one’s true thoughts in such a way that there would be no room for misunderstanding. We need a more open-minded world – but even the most intelligent amongst us are prone to disagreements and skewed perceptives. Nobody will ever think exactly like you do. Your thoughts, attitude, behavior, and the way you react to the behavior of others – this is all your own. You can try to change yourself, and become a more fully-actualized person, once you recognize your own shortcomings, but you cannot change anyone else.
I’ve learnt to let it go. I can try to explain myself using words and concepts but no matter how clear I think my elaboration may be, there is no certainty I will be ‘heard’ for the truth of what I am saying. That’s ok. Sometimes, even often times, I am wrong, and I will admit this. I’m not too prideful to say that indeed, *I* may have been the one with a skewed perspective, the one who was wrong.
Live and let live. A phrase which I intend to abide by. If I want to become a better person, no one can stop me but myself.
“Beware of judging others too harshly.”
Why? What’s the worst that could happen? lol… and by this logic, i can understand why others judge “too harshly” (according to my assessment, which is incompatible with theirs).
Yeah, i make mistakes, there, i said it, so what? Big whoop, wannafightaboutit?
“I wish there would be some way to convey one’s true thoughts in such a way that there would be no room for misunderstanding.”
This.
“Nobody will ever think exactly like you do.”
…which is not really what i want or need or am looking for; i need someone who thinks *compatibly.* If there’s a compatible way that isn’t “exactly like mine,” then great. I just don’t think observable reality shows any indication of such a thing actually existing.
“…no one can stop me but myself.”
I disagree. A bullet would prove you wrong. Plenty of people have been stopped from becoming a better person, by someone other than themselves. And no, it doesn’t always take a bullet or a grave injury. Sometimes all it takes is an imposed emotional state that cannot resolve itself properly, and gradually degrades that person’s survival capacity, or even removes the desire to do so.
But hey, thanks for the comment, and i do understand “what you’re getting at.”
I think there’s some evolutionary advantage to females acting naive/dumb and somehow it makes them more attractive to members of the opposite sex. I don’t buy that advantage, though. Me no likes. I’d rather a smart chick who likes to play with volatile chemicals while wearing a lab coat (see: Enclothed Cognition). We should all be so lucky as to wear lab coats.
Hmm…I wonder if I crossed your mind when you made this post, due to our little back and forth on the nature of reality yesterday. If so, I would just like to point out that I am not one of those people who presses their point and continues to believe that they’re right despite how much solid evidence or reason the person they’re disagreeing with brings to the table. Those people annoy me…a great deal.
For me, I’d say it’s usually a discussion rather than an argument. I’m usually not trying to prove that I’m right, but rather I try to bring up my points and see if the other person can reasonably counteract them. It’s a learning experience, and I’m always willing to change my mind or rethink a bit, if the other person can provide a good reason for me to doubt the points I made. I think of it as less an argument and more as…cooperative thinking/reasoning.
nah river, you’re good. The annoyance of that particular argument (meaning the “you can’t know whether reality is real” stance, pertaining to that particular debate, as well as that particular debate, in and of itself) perhaps contributed to my general frustration level, but was not the source or point of this post, and has nothing to do with you personally, in any way.
Thanks for answering my Three Stooges analogy. I might fall into the Larry/Curly category from time to time. Ugh.
“Beware of judging others too harshly.†– What I meant by this: sometimes humans can have a tendency to hold others to impossible ideals. I’m guilty of this myself. We somehow expect people to act the way we want them to, but this never happens. Human beings are unpredictable. A person’s actions may or may not be a reflection of your influence on them, but the trouble occurs when one takes a situation too personally. Perhaps it is better to realize to oneself – nobody is perfect, and when dealing with someone you are also dealing with their past and present environment – everything that makes a person who they are today.
Sometimes we need to step back and say to ourselves – they aren’t perfect, but neither am I, and from now on I can try not to overreact, knowing that they can’t help being who they are any less than how I can’t be anyone other than myself. We need to relinquish this impulse to mold others to our way of being. Everyone is a free person who makes their own decisions and who will continue in the manner of thought patterns to which they are accustomed.
I would agree that in order to minimize chaos, disorder, incorrect assumptions, and quarrels, it is best to associate only with those we consider to be relatively ‘compatible,’ but even in this case we cannot always avoid strife. Occasionally it takes one person standing up and admitting that their opinions were erroneous (“it’s not you, it’s me”), and this is the only way to move forward. This is what I mean when I say that I try not to let pride tamper my relations with others. I will fully own up to my mistakes and admit that my thinking was biased, based upon inconclusive data and incidences from my past that lead me to anticipate a certain response or outcome. Sometimes “in the heat of the moment” or when I am upset, I say things merely to provoke a certain reaction, and this is also a dreadful fault of mine (as the other party is likely to totally misunderstand). Like I said previously, all I can do is recognize my failings and try to combat them in all future endeavors.
lol… i feel like we’ve been over this before, and you’ve continually insinuated that i’m “holding others to impossible ideals,” or that i’m “expecting people to act how i want.” This is not the case, and never has been. Desire and expectation are two very clearly distinct things. It’s pretty rare for those two things to actually coincide, for me; i’m either wanting without expecting, or expecting without wanting, but almost never both. I can’t recall the last time… or ever, actually, expecting to get what i want.
Another thing: i am the epitome of imperfection, and emphatically embrace the notion of accepting people’s actual flaws, when those flaws deviate from my spectrum of preference. I can almost always find SOMETHING to like, about just about anyone. I am practically a master of minimizing my expectations and standards, and allowing people plenty of room for error and mistakes.
As for “molding others,” there are only two options: take unacceptable and incompatible as it comes, or “shape” and try to improve what exists, into something more preferable/compatible.
I’m just tired of being the one doing all the compromising, always expected to yield, as if being commanded to be whatever anyone else dictates, is how i’m supposed to feel fulfilled in life.
The only time i ever try to “change someone,” is when there is good reason to do so. For example: they are wrong. It’s better to not be wrong, especially when them being whatever wrong they are, causes me some unfavorable impact. So anyone who refuses to make reasonable adjustments, does not deserve my mutual compromise, period. I can and will make reasonable adjustments, when/where appropriate, but i will not yield when i know i’m right, or when i have the obviously more reasonable position. Reason is paramount in order to maintain compatibility with the way *I* want *MY* life to be, and so anyone who imposes arbitrary limitations upon my life, or refuses to cooperate (not “obey,” but mutually beneficially coexist), is both unreasonable and detrimental to me. Ergo: i will avoid those people as much as possible, because they are not only of no use to me, but actually damaging and costly.
It has nothing to do with “perfection,” unless “whatever i can find/get that actually works out” is to be considered “perfect.” I don’t think those are the same thing, but i would have no problem settling for “close enough.” It’s just that everyone i’ve ever encountered was too far away from “close enough,” and not by my own “harsh judgment” or “impossible ideals,” but instead, by their own, through an elevated set of expectations, and the unwillingness to compromise at all.
So… idk, it seems like people have a tendency to assume i’m the one being hypercritical of everyone else… but in fact, it’s precisely the opposite.
I get so fed up with people acting like it’s *me* being whatever certain problematic way, when really, it’s only them… and those people often get defensive and start “provoking responses,” when i attempt to explain such things to them. It’s ironic; they can’t stand to be wrong, but simultaneously refuse and reject all attempted corrections. If you don’t want to be wrong, you better be ready to “get right.” I’ve had to submit to that same rule, and i’ve paid endless dues to gain the level of righteousness i’ve (l)earned, as well as the dues to understand its limits.
“…all I can do is recognize my failings and try to combat them in all future endeavors.”
Most people don’t seem too interested in that type of personal accountability. But i agree, everyone “should” embrace that idea… although it seems i constantly encounter those who won’t.
Yeah, things as abstract as that can be annoying and a bit of a pain in the ass to debate or argue about. And trying to get your point across in a way the other person will understand exactly what you mean or are trying to say can be frustrating. I understand, no worries.
And of course the repeated “but you can’t prove/disprove this and that”… I can see how that gets annoying too, haha.
I was going to write that there’s a difference between stupid and nutty, but now I’m not so sure.
Nutty people often have good intentions, they don’t set out to be malevolent. They usually don’t consider themselves to be wrong, stupid or nutty. (Christians and women are a prime example of this). They don’t *want* to be stupid, but they often come across that way to the people they interact with.
I tend to suspect a lot of this has to do with reacting emotionally instead of thinking things through in a rational, reasonable manner. People get so attached to their strongly held, emotionally rooted convictions that they just don’t know how to react any other way.
I suppose tolerance is key when dealing with people that “seem stupid”, although avoiding them altogether might be a better policy.
I don’t think you can really lump women into a category with Christians.
ah, here it is… i wanted to catch this with:
A large number of women voluntarily lump themselves into the Christians category.
Is this one of those double-standards? “If they can call themselves that, why can’t we?”
Ruled by emotions (usually). Prone to react based on feelings rather critical thought.
*rather than*
“I tend to suspect a lot of this has to do with reacting emotionally
instead of thinking things through in a rational, reasonable
manner. People get so attached to their strongly held,
emotionally rooted convictions that they just don’t know how to
react any other way.” – True, but as I said, if a person recognizes their faults they can do their best to avoid such reactions in the future. Life is a learning process for everyone. Continual growth and personal improvement should always be strived towards.
“(Christians and women are a prime example of this). They don’t *want* to be stupid, but they often come across that way to the people they interact with.”
Implied women are stupid most of the time. Not many people react based on critical thought, but I agree that men are more likely to.
Even the ones who do “react based on critical thought” are still influenced by their emotions to some degree. I don’t think there’s anyone who has ever made every decision and action based on purely logic. We just weren’t designed that way.
@noonoo: I’m not implying that women are stupid most of the time. Based on my experience, I’ve found that women tend to react emotionally instead of taking the time to employ critical thought beforehand. This is an opinion I’ve formed after a lifetime of dealing with women (and Xians).
Being emotional doesn’t mean you’re stupid, although behaving that way certainly makes one *seem* nutty.
based purely on logic*
But I do agree that women may be influenced a bit more by theirs, simply by their nature. Not that a women can’t be intelligent and logical of course. And you could also say that men are prone to act stupidly due to their emotions, in some ways more so than women. Fits of rage/breaking shit…stuff like that.
i’ve seen enraged women, and i’ve seen men cry. I’ve seen cold hard women, and warm soft men. It’s just that females tend to be encouraged in that direction, more than males… so it would make sense that the stereotype would develop that “women react emotionally.”
@TheRiver; Point taken.
@clevername: I used to avoid reading your responses because I thought they were too long. Now I take the time to read them (sometimes) and actually enjoy your verbose walls of text. 🙂
PS: This is your post. Why are your comments going to spam?
perplexed… spam what?
and: i might have to duck and cover after you pulled the “Xians and women” card… lol.
@Clevername: Don’t take what I said personally. I’m not you, and although I agree with you quite often, I cannot claim to completely understand your manner of thinking – I can only speak for myself.
I will admit to having expected too-high standards. I am far from perfect, but I seek perfection in myself and others. This is a bad habit of mine. Recently it has been pointed out to me just how far I had taken this. Sometimes all one can do is ‘let go’. Lose the expectations, lose control, and let life happen as it will – like The Hanged Man tells us in Tarot. Perfectionism is unattainable. Sometimes all you should do is just “be” – accept yourself, and accept others as they are.
@clevername: I’m pretty sure you’re always wearing a lab coat – if not, then you should get one and you’d be unstoppable.
Now… intuitive vs. rational is a whole different debate, and I’d posit that it’s neither black nor white, but shades of purple/chartreuse. In my experience, women tend to veer towards the intuitive/emotional, typifying the ideal of a truth-seeker who rejects contemporary wisdom in favor of what feels right, while men typify the pragmatic rationalist who believes only what he sees. There are obvious exceptions, granted both are human traits that everyone has to various degrees.
lol… i think i might actually do that. A lab coat seems very sir-like.
But oh, look, hey, that’s that… idk the proper term, but it’s that thing people do with arbitrarily opposed contrasting things, as if they can’t overlap and coexist. IMO, pragmatism and intuition are not just “compatible,” but are actually optimal in concert. When it comes to thinking versus feeling, there are many instances where both are important, and omitting or heavily favoring one or the other, will only yield an incomplete perspective. Emotion doesn’t always have to produce irrationality. And how can we intuit anything, if we’re not basing it on something “real?” (even if it *is* something we don’t fully understand, and therefore can only go by feel…)
Idk man, this is a complex topic and i’m totally unprepared for it today. Didn’t sleep enough and woke up too early… have already typed like 10k words today… (wild guess)
Can i safely assume when you address “Stupidity” that you are excluding those that are actually ignorant in the true sense? or others who have been underexposed to the area of deficient knowledge and intellect that you might assume to be “stupid”? I’d like to think you have made these concessions/caveats when assessing your astonishment for the stupid among us. I get your frustration in that regard … I have/had a friend of limited education that was more ignorant than stupid … yet when i did actually educate said friend to his crude and crass “thoughts”, statements and actions (based mostly on mimicking the idiots he worked with), I found he would regress from the new knowledge and continue to espouse the stupid (formerly ignorant) positions … now THAT was astonishing that a person would actually reject facts, knowledge and intellect to embrace purposeful moronic BS (excluding faith/religion – it’s difficult to expect someone to completely jettison their faith when they have only marginally been faced with contradictory data after a lifetime of belief so I exclude this subject from my assessment)
I found that despite my genuine like for this person, I had to limit my interaction with him because he willfully chooses not to learn – frustrating
Have you tried looking for a Skeptics group in your area – I found one near me that I’m dying to go to for the intellectual discussions but their calendar doesn’t fit my schedule too well 🙂
perplexed dawg
it’s a habitual holdover from learning an adapted form of “stupid” which applies more to behavior than actual mental capacity, as this post quoted from above (saving you the hassle of finding it), was intended to clarify (and i suppose i could/should add it to the OP, but i’m feeling less inclined to correct/clarify myself, ironically enough…):
“…perhaps my astonishment is a result of an artificial cognitive construct, erected subconsciously, involuntarily, in self-preservation, as a sort of “final stand,†to prevent me from losing the last shred of hope for improvement, which comes from refusing to allow humanity itself to completely destroy my ability to have faith in other people.
But i suppose i should clarify: when i say “stupid,†i’m more talking about absurd and frustrating and/or infuriating behavior, and not necessarily intelligence or lack thereof (though i’m sure there are links between/among those things).
The more literal term “stupid†should rarely, if ever, be used, to refer to someone with an incapably inferior mind. When i say “stupid,†i usually mean “someone who refuses learning and acts despite it,†rather than someone who merely lacks the capacity for understanding.
I get angry at “stupid people,†because i feel like they could learn better if they gave a shit… but they apparently don’t, which ends up causing me problems. And, by extension, those “stupid†people who insist they are right, when it’s obvious that they are unwilling to consider any alternate perspective, or allow new information to justify and facilitate better understanding, simply because they would then have to think something they don’t want to think, which, to them, somehow makes me a bad or unappealing person.”
Edit: Also! i’ve gone through that same thing you described. People who not only “regress,” but actually actively fabricate a new set of false constructs, in order to protect their already compromised “faith,” due to having become completely reliant upon its sustenance, and unable to cope with the confrontation of contradictory information, and the scenarios admitting such information would produce.
“A large number of women voluntarily lump themselves into the Christians category.”
A large number identify themselves as Christians, sure, but I hardly think that puts them into a “category”, in this sense. That’s like saying elephants are in the same category as “zoo”.
I think I may be failing to see your point here, clevername.
women who place themselves in the “Christians” category, have removed themselves from my “women” category. I don’t really consider them valid, if they willingly include themselves in that category. Anyone in that category, especially willingly, is one of those people i’d be better off never encountering at all, because it is impossible for me to change them enough to become “close enough” to what i’m looking for (which doesn’t even begin to address their own wants/needs, which i’m sure i’d not be capable of meeting, since i would never include myself in their chosen category, among other issues…)
If a woman calls herself a Christian, then so will i. At that point, her gender becomes almost entirely irrelevant to me, due to the glaring cognitive incompatibility indicated by her “faith.” But hey, if some holy roller wants to go for a roll in the sack, and i happen to have nothing better to do, i’ll probably overlook that glaring incompatibility, in the name of progress.
@Pina Colada I’m not sure that is the only meaning of hanged man. Tarot is often used as a guide when it’s purely entertainment and chance. I’m not exactly sure how any of that fits into this discussion.
@Bipolar “Purely entertainment and chance” – I disagree based upon my experiences with Tarot, but you’re free to express whatever opinions you see fit.
I don’t trust Tarot – i mean, anything mass-produced like Tarot cards must not have much magic left in them. Instead, I rely on tossing the bones of my enemies and reading fortunes from the magical circle I make on the ground using the ground up gray matter from my enemies brains. It’s much more precise.
@Pina Colada, if tarot held more significant meaning why don’t investigators use it to solve cold cases or judges use it to determine someone’s fate? And it’s loosely based on interpretation….we need a standard in life, not a flimsy card game.
Who’s with me?
“Women who place themselves in the “Christians” category, have removed themselves from my “women” category”.
Ah, dude….you’re dismissing a segment of the population that can be very “willing” under the right circumstances. You ever get a devout Mormon woman shit-faced drunk?
Try it sometime…you’ll be singing a different tune. 🙂 She probably won’t want to talk to you the next day either. It’s perfect.
I suppose Pina Colada only uses doctors that consult tarot before diagnosing an ailment.
Oh my goodness, I’m making too much sense!
Ok – we’re on the same page then for the most part. I try to parse out those that are ignorant or under educated or unexposed to certain information/situations form those who i deem “stupid – being those that HAVE the facts, knowledge, experience YET choose to reject and think/act in contradiction to fact, accepted moral standard and/or logical intellect simply because it’s “too much trouble” or otherwise unpopular with whatever group of neanderthals they want to impress.
Addressed to the general group/discussion – I must say as an aside – i fail to see how women are somehow “stupid” because they process data somewhat differently than males … I think as males we should refrain from making that connection as a generalization … Xians, on the other hand have a long drilled indoctrination to overcome – but there comes a point when faced with facts and data that they must make a conscious choice … depending how they choose, only at that point, determines their level of stupidity
fair and balanced dawg
yep, we’re pretty much on the same page.
The only thing is that i never had any intention of making any “women are stupid” connection (though sometimes it’s admittedly tempting… mostly due to the sample segment to which i’m exposed, which i hope doesn’t represent most of them…).
But yeah. Any “Christian Woman” will certainly do the same favor for me, and immediately rule me out, or decide i’m a “heathen,” based on that one simple distinction.
But i would also say that women also have a “long-drilled indoctrination” to overcome, in the form of societal norms/expectations, and especially with regard to the notions and underlying precepts of “feminism.” (hate to have to say it, but there’s a whole lot of bullshit underneath, behind, and within “feminism,” and i don’t even want to get into that topic; it was only relevant in this particular way, that “girls are raised to be women,” and so they are taught to think/feel/be/do, “as women should,” a vast majority of the time, which, of course, will certainly have a whole different range of influences on a person, than the other side of that same coin.)
Women aren’t “stupid because they process data differently,” but rather, many women are not pressured to learn how to think, because the “decent ones” always have multiple men fighting each other for the chance to do everything for her (no, not literally EVERYTHING, it should be obvious…). People who have armies of others competing for the privilege of making their lives wonderful, are not going to develop the same strength of mental faculties as someone who has to figure out everything on their own, and do everything themselves, against unending adversity. If you have nothing to strive against, you’ll never grow strong… and i have to think there is a correlation here, and is at least partially to blame for the “women are dumb” stereotype. Those who don’t have to think, don’t have to learn to think, and don’t even have to be right. They can believe whatever they want, treat people like garbage, and there are always plenty of next-ones to come along to fight for a chance at the privilege of their favor.
Regardless of gender, most humans are chastised and criticized for being anything outside of socially indoctrinated, or even just primitive-natural expectations.
@Bipolar I have been observing your behavior on this site, and you seem to enjoy provoking others. It’s all good. You can believe what you wish, and I’ll do the same. Peace.
@ clevername, Ah…
I agree…wholeheartedly, and absolutely. I’m the same way with this. When someone tells me they’re Christian, I tend to assume they’re not open-minded. In fact, I tend to assume a whole lot of things about them. As mean as that may seem.
Then again, there are a few who identify themselves as “Christian”, but when you really find out what they actually believe it’s more along the lines of theistic agnosticism. They just don’t know what to call it, really. And that, for me personally, is fine. For the most part.
@Casual Observer “But hey, if some holy roller wants to go for a roll in the sack, and i happen to have nothing better to do, i’ll probably overlook that glaring incompatibility, in the name of progress.”
I think you missed that part of clevername’s comment. The problem is, some people want more than just mindless sex. Take it if you can get it, sure. But clevername (and others like him) wouldn’t want an actual relationship with someone like that, because they wouldn’t be compatible.
@Pina Colada, that suits me. I continue on my path of sensible judgement that is backed by life experience and continued research. You can keep your magic cards and their directives. If you ever lose your deck of tarot or want another means to the same answers, I have a coin I can flip for you.
Heads or tails, statistically the better choice.
@cn: Dude, I feel you on that one. I think my brain is a little scrambled from the last few days – there’s been a lot of drama around these parts and I think any comments I make should be taken with a grain of salt. I’m amazed in hindsight when anything I type comes out coherently when I feel like I do right now.
I’d add – different people have different cognitive strengths, and while one person may favor one style of relating to the world, another person may favor the other, and the two compliment one another rather well as a result. It need not be a balance within a single individual; civilization came to being due to cooperation between various members, each with their own special strengths and weaknesses. I do think we need more lab coats in public schools, though. That might solve a lot of problems.