There is no point in trying to get better. There is no reason to keep going.
Kat isn’t worth saving or salvaging. She’s just not worth fighting for. I want to give up.
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And this is the time in which you should be by Kat, be by you. In the times in which you wish not to get better is the times in which you will better in the extremes. Good luck, and don’t give up. Kat needs you.
I don’t care what she needs. I hate her. The thought of being kind to her in any way makes me sick.
At some level, in some way, these words make sense to me.
If you don’t mind me asking.
Why do you see no point in getting better or continuing to go on?
Why did you feel the need to fight for this Kat person at one point?
Kat is me. But sometimes I refer to myself in the third person to keep myself sane.
Knowing that we’re the same person hurts. When I’m reminded that we are, it makes me want to hop in the shower and scrub her off me.
I understand this (in my own way)
you feel like more than one person?
Kinda. I know, logically, that I’m one human being, one body and brain. However, personhood is a concept that has nothing to do with biology. So maybe “I” am more than one person…maybe this human being is more than one person…or maybe this human being isn’t a person at all. I don’t know. Thinking about this stuff too hard hurts my head.
Hey Kat, I’m sorry that you’re still stuck in this awful situation. However, I’m glad that you’re still holding on after all the shit. You are worth saving, and you are worth fighting for. And the fact that you haven’t completely given up shows that a part of you believes that. No matter how bad things get, one can always find a reason to keep going. At the moment, that’s a thing that I’m trying to keep in mind.
Anyway, I hope you keep going. You’ve made it this far. You can get out of this.
Generic pep talk numba’ 1! We gotta’ generic pep talk numba’ 1 with a dash of useless poured in comin’ up! Who ordered the generic pep talk #1?! There were also some “I’ve heard this all before” appetizers ordered along with that generic pep talk numba’ 1!! Come an’ get your helping of USELESS!!
I’m sorry, the mere fact that you’re at least TRYING to be supportive may be taken as a positive token gesture, but in reality, this is exactly what I and it seems many if not most people think when they hear things like this.
How am I worth saving? How am I worth fighting for? I appreciate your confidence in me, Sad Potato, but you’re wrong about part of me believing these things. No part of me believes them. The only reason that I’m still here is because I’m scared. Not because I believe I’m worth saving.
Whatever you see in me, I can’t see it. I genuinely CAN’T see it.
Not to say I told you, SadPotato, but…
I’m sorry whiskered-fish. Why don’t you believe in yourself?
not to say I told you *so*
I wish you’d’ve “told him so” in a more succinct way. Your stream of comments turned my post into a confusing headache.
And I don’t know what you mean by believe in myself.
I said that I don’t consider myself to be worth saving or worth fighting for. I see no value in me. I see nothing of worth in me.
You said that you don’t believe any positive things about yourself. That’s what I meant. If you see no worth in yourself, place worth in other people. Try to help people on an individual basis in any way possible. It is my philosophy that the only way I can assign any value to myself is to hold others to be of higher value than myself.
Lately, I’ve had trouble caring about other people. Or doing anything but fearing other people, really.
Anyway, even if I did, I don’t understand how that will work. It makes no sense. And I’ve heard it before.
Helping others can give you a purpose. It sounds difficult, but you’re reducing the suffering of others just like you wish you could reduce your own suffering. That in turn could help you feel better about yourself and your own worth, if you ever decide you care for other humans again. But I understand where you’re coming from.
I’m not trying to be negative, I’m just trying to be honest.
And on the not of honesty, honestly, hope is irrational. So giving people what you call “hope” is actually just negatively impacting them. Let people see things for what they really are, assess the situation for what it is and act to improve upon the current situation from there, don’t just tell them to “hang in there”. Be a little more creative and try to ACTUALLY help… try to lure out their actual, true emotions if you can. BEAT IT OUT of them if you have to. Not literally, figuratively, push them to the edge so they break down in front of you and then you can assess their real emotions and react by responding with a genuine emotional reaction of your own, if you’ve got the balls. Doing this will show them that you genuinely care and they will experience ACTUAL catharsis, which will ACTUALLY HELP THEM. Don’t just spit this generic shit about “hope it gets better”.
on the *note* of honesty
I’ll keep that in mind.
Sorry. I know you were trying to help. It’s just that a lot of people don’t know HOW to help. I’m not saying I’m a know it all on the subject, but in my experience, what I’ve described actually has somewhat noticeable results. You should continue to try to help in any way you think you can… even if it’s just offering support in a less aggressive way than what I’ve described. I didn’t intend to be so blunt.
You needn’t say sorry. You were just expressing your opinion. I’ve, extensively, discussed with Kat about her issues on posts she made quite a while back. So, I just expressed my sentiments in relation to what she said on this post. I’ve already given her all the practical advice I can give. I know what’s she’s going through and why she’s here.
Oops, sorry for the “what’s”.
It’s just that engaging in statements and actions that are commonly repeated and that do not show you are fully emotionally invested in the other person do not have an effect on the suffering person whom you are trying to help. I have seen this enough to be able to empirically conclude it.
A society/culture that discourages the genuine, intense feelings that we all feel ultimately breeds timidity of the soul. And timidity is the exact opposite of whatever the cure for depression is, timidity of emotions is depression incarnate. Depression is the repression of emotions.
In order to really help someone out of their depression, you have to make them FEEL something. It may not be feelings that are great at first, but that’s simply part of the process. By realizing and experiencing negative emotions, the sufferer will experience catharsis and be able to transcend those negative emotions. It is simply part of the process. In order to feel good, in order to feel anything, we have to be allowed, we first have to allow OURSELVES to feel negative emotions, to wade through them and get through to the other side, to the emotions we deem to be good, instead of shutting down or allowing others to shut down.
It’s essentially “rhizomatic”, positive feelings breed more positive feelings, as do negative emotions, like offshoots from the roots of a plant. And people are interconnected, if you give half charged generic responses that anyone could read from looking up broad advice on the internet, the person you are interacting with will have an even less emotional reaction, which honestly does practically nothing to alleviate the depression that you are trying to relieve them of.
I’m sorry, I talk too much. I just hope the message I was trying to convey got across to anyone reading. Everyone else is just as hopeful as you are for that “one person” who will actually be able to help them by giving them a genuine emotional exchange. This is what people truly need. People these days are far too disconnected from their inner feelings. I hope this helps someone, somewhere.
There’s giving practical advice, but in reality, the most practical thing you can do is catch someone of guard and instigate a situation to a point where they break down in front of you and become emotional, even if they try to hide it. Let them revel in their irrationality, let them explode with anger, let them fall into despair in their sadness all in front of you.
Break them down, allow them to break down, then give them an emotional response, even if it makes you uncomfortable, relate to them, don’t just say, “I think (this) would be the practical thing to do.” That actually comes off as not helpful, and sometimes even seems patronizing and dismissive.
The practical advice can come afterwards, and in reality, even if you give someone sound advice, you’re probably going to have to help them act upon it and enact the change that they need in their life. Depressed people are CRIPPLED, emotionally, mentally, and physically, and don’t have the emotional or mental resources to act upon most of the “advice” people so often give them in place of what they truly need first, to explode with emotion to momentarily escape their depression and know what it’s like to feel alive again, this will help them to form a bond of trust with the person trying to help them, a bond that they SORELY need, and it will potentially motivate them to actually seek to better their situation, but they will NEED HELP to do it. Please remember that.
I’m not saying I’m the best at doing this with people. But I have initiated the process before. It takes patience with the person you are trying to help, they will respond slowly. They are going to be hesitant at first. It’s like someone in a pitch black room emerging into the sunlight outside for the first time in days, possibly weeks or even longer, and being blinded by the sun, and then recoiling. I’m still learning how to help these people. But at least I’m actually trying.
*off* guard
Yes, that is one theory on therapy. Thank you for the input.
You don’t seem to agree. Well, we can all take different approaches, I find mine has worked and I will continue pursuing it’s use in the future.
Hi, whiskered fish, what exactly is the root of the problem? Care to share? I know you probably can’t explain it all succinctly, but you have to start somewhere. Please, please respond…
I’ve said all I can say, at this point. I’ve written so many post drafts that I’ve later deleted or abandoned because I realize that it’s just a rehash of something I’ve already said. All I do now is repeat myself.
The root of the problem is me. I’m the problem.
Even my therapist has indicated, on more that one occasion, that some people have a hopeless condition.
Why are you any less worth saving than anyone else?
Or are we all disposable? Maybe we are, sometimes I believe that. Other times I reserve that anger and disgust for only myself, everyone else seems to be “ok”… Sometimes I believe that.
Here’s something I recently said to myself during a major freak out: “If you don’t like yourself then why are you listening to your own shit-talking?”
I don’t expect to give you anything that helps, or miraculosly changes your mind about yourself… But I hear you. You are not alone.
Then why do I feel alone? Why don’t my feelings match reality?