I’ve been carrying this self-disgust for a long time now. A large part of me just wants to stop. I don’t have the courage to, but I kind of wish someone else would do it for me. That would be a gift. That would be the compassionate thing to do – just put me out of my misery. I wouldn’t ask anyone to go through that though.
The things I’ve done and the things in my head contaminate everything else I do and am. I can’t see myself or think of myself except in reference to them. They define me. I gave up any claim I ever had to being innocent or morally decent. No matter what I do from this point on, I will always be disgusting, repulsive, subhuman. Contaminated.
But I’m still so scared to let go of this hollow life I’ve created. To let go of this repulsive self I’ve created. All the painful memories I’ve stored, the links back to the person I used to be before. All contaminated now, but still I horde them, as if I could somehow transform myself back to that state. All the possibilities of living in this world, now undermined. Yet still I cling to them, pretending that the pretence of a life could be worth something.
To finally close the door on all that, on all that I am, on everything that is in me…now that’s terrifying. I can’t bring myself to even seriously plan for it. My mind recoils from the thought. But that is the only way to bring this to an end.
But then all that would do is pass the turmoil on to those unfortunate enough to care for me. Who most certainly don’t deserve it. So the wrongness in me gets transformed into a different kind of wrongness within them, just as unbearable.
So there is no solution. There is no way out, until I die a “natural” death. There is only misery, and the vain attempts to hide from it, to temporarily forget.
14 comments
well, there’s stuff to do to advance that “natural” cause of death. I really need to get back on my bicycle, living in the city it’s the best thing I can do for my death. I don’t wear a helmet, of course, because a helmet would directly work against the reason I ride my bike.
that’s the ideal, it might kill me, but until it does it doesn’t make me more dependent on others. Unlike smoking….. but I do get tempted to smoke now and then. Not for the nicotine, I have other routes for THAT, but for the increased chances of death. The thing I never figured out was how to chain smoke, apparently that combined with moderate drinking is a pretty quick way to carve years off your life. If you have the stomach for it, I don’t.
but take heart, ordinary people have heart attacks and strokes all the time. The older you get, the more likely. Plus, cancer isn’t something caught so much as it is cell reproduction errors, and that gets more likely by the year.
and all that fails, I look forward to being old if it means I can be legit unpleasant and people just accept it. I try to do all I can to speed my physical aging so that I can reach that point sooner. Eventually, I just want to be able to growl inarticulately and people be like “okay, that’s just that guy.”
I like to believe suffering is something that shows, even if it isn’t expressly communicated. So, I hope that when people see me enduring my pain, they’d thank whatever higher power they give credit to that it isn’t happening to them.
The weird part right now is I’ve found someone in more pain, and I’m studying it like the eager student I’ve always been. This guy, man he manages to be prickly and unpleasant without appearing hateful in ways that I aspire to. I’m no bigot, I just want to be able to express my fundamental f- it all attitude in my posture and skin.
my attitude in all things is to seek a teacher. Once I sought a teacher in function, now I realize that is futile, so now I seek teachers in suffering and pain. People are better at it than me, and my inescapable ambition insists that I become the best at even this.
I dunno, it seems like a serious bike/car accident would be as likely to leave you paralysed in a far worse state as it would to actually finish you off. Things like smoking/drinking might carve years of your life, but they can also drastically lower the quality of whatever life you have left. Untreated cancer also seems like a pretty horrible way to go, as swelling masses grow within you until they out-compete your organs for vital resources. It’s kind of like being very slowly consumed from within.
Personally, from a selfish perspective, I’ll put my hopes in an event that causes the collapse of civilization, to the extent that my loved ones wouldn’t even be surprised by my suicide or have time to really mourn it. Nuclear war, rogue AI, man-made disease…there are so many ways this whole thing could come crumbling down in the next few years.
That’s a pretty terrible thing to hope for, but that’s kind of where I’m at right now.
Husk if you do decide to ‘end it’ I understand, but I’ll miss your posts and presence to an extent…as you’re one of the few regulars here that I’m familiar with here.
I was just thinking about earlier about what a great site this is…to just come and speak your mind when you feel down/suicidal and ofc it helps talking to people who somewhat know each other…it has less impact with total strangers.
I’m also not in a great place in life…I moved from one bad place and while this new apt is on the whole much better, I have a new set of problems. At least its not permanent and I’m hoping in the future I’ll be in a position to own my own condo or house but int rates are still pretty high where I live so I’m forced to wait.
As for ending one’s life…if one was determined there are ways of doing it and some things are available which aren’t too hard to get to make it happen.
I think we all would like a quick painless ‘natural’ exit, but we’ll have to wait for old age for that to happen…most deaths ofc are the opposite, slow painful and long, unless there’s an accident. One would need to need to be proactive if they wanted it sooner.
This thought enters my mind every so often too…I think what bothers me most is that I’m in my 50’s now and I just royally messed up my youth-I made a lot of bad choices and wasted the time I had. Ofc not everything was my fault, but I’ll take most of the blame.
Now I’m making smarter choices but I’m getting older too…eventually it won’t even matter if I become rich for example. My main interest is to find a great female partner…if I was in my 40s, I’d still have a decent shot.
In my current situation it’ll take money, getting fit again and looking better.
The one thing in life I always felt was worth living for is beautiful girls…and not just on a superficial level, but in every other way, being in their company and so forth…just made me feel great when I was dating hot girls and it made all the crap I was suffering through more worthwhile.
Thankfully, despite being older I still get compliments for my hair and youthful appearance….I guess I’m lucky in that way so I’ll still have a chance with pretty girls, but as mentioned before I need to still get back into shape…and try to build my capital.
It’s the daily grind that really gets in my way and I have to focus on my goals. I’m into the investing field and I’ve missed out on some trades that would’ve changed my life…but I just have to get myself more organized and disciplined, hopefully I can pull it off this year or next.
If I can make enough money then it would’ve all been worth it…otherwise there isn’t a lot I have that’s keeping me going in life. I have business ideas as well but they also take money to get off the ground too.
Back to your situation-I don’t know what the answer is for you, I’d suggest trying to leave your past in the past, but I know its nothing something you can do…only you can really change your situation if you want to.
At least we are not immortal creatures and all the anguish, pain, misery, etc dies with us-whenever we pass away. For those worried about an afterlife, ofc there’s nothing to worry about…this is the only life we will ever get.
I appreciate that, Soda. I agree that there’s value in having somewhere to vent where some might be familiar with your issues.
I’m sorry things are still difficult for you, but it sounds like at least you’re moving forward on some fronts. I can understand how having a partner might make it much easier to endure some kinds of suffering, as I often feel that absence in my own life.
You’re indeed fortunate to be in your 50s and still have decent hair. In my mid-30s I’m long past the point of having to shave my head, and my hair started going in my mid-20s. My teeth are also pretty worn at this point and unpleasant to look at. Genetics kind of screwed me in both regards, and it’s definitely somewhat limiting in how attractive one is (whilst also exposing you to the laziest of put downs.) If you’re super-jacked and super-confident then you can still appeal to a certain type of person if you’re bald, but I’m neither of those things. I’m a hyper-sensitive introvert. I also have no relationship experience to build upon, so I have very little to offer anyone at this point. All I really had going for me as a kid to appeal to girls was being somewhat cute, and I failed to build anything within myself to replace that.
Yes, hopefully all the misery within us dies with the disintegration of the brain.
No problem Husk. Indeed, I used to be on another site which was very restrictive with it’s rules that made no sense. So eventually I found this one and it’s really the best I came across…I bet it’s helped many people vent their frustrations, reach out in their worst times and find reasons to keep going. Most people here are pretty decent.
Ya I hate to say it but most of our problems boil down to money…if you make a lot, then it solves many issues…but working is a major pain in the azz too. Fortunately for myself I’ve figured out the best way to “beat the system.”
Ofc my solution isn’t easy or everyone would be doing it, but still it puts you in a place where you can get financial freedom if you make the right choices at the right time.
So if that works, which if all goes well, I’ll know in a few months, then I should be able to be free and then focus on doing things that make me happy. Even if that happens I don’t really intend to be around into my 70s, unless they reverse aging, but never say never.
Sorry to hear about your hair and teeth problems, I realize that can be pretty devastating. A few of my friends got bald in university but they just focused on their career and exercise. So you’re right being jacked does help to an extent.
In my case I’d say I lost about half my hair, though I appear to mostly have a full head of hair, because there was so much more I had in my 20s. When they say ‘beauty is wasted on the youth’ it’s totally right…you look good at that age but don’t make intelligent decisions and lack wisdom, which you only pick up over time.
Ya this world caters to ‘insensitive extroverts’ so I can see the challenges you have to face…I’ve gone through a similar stage as well and had to teach myself to let things slide, not to make a mountain out of a molehill and also to be extroverted, which isn’t my ‘natural’ state, though I’m a bit of both.
As for your teeth, if you find a good dentist they can fix most issues and even replace your teeth in the worst cases, but if you don’t have dental insurance you’ll have to pay out of pocket which ofc isn’t cheap.
Regarding relationships I haven’t dated a lot either but it’s just something you pick up over time, each girl is ‘different’ in a way and sometimes they can be inexperienced too…so I wouldn’t worry about that too much, they key is to find someone you click with.
If appearance is a problem you might have to lower your standards, which I think many of us don’t want to do. Ofc it’s not just about looks, personality matters too and it’s hard to be in a situation to meet them in a non-stressful environment. Ya one has to be pretty objective about their looks/potential, esp. when you’re young.
Girls thought I was cute/attractive when I was younger…though I knew I was far from perfect. Initially I planned to find one great girl and tie the knot with her in my 20s…but in my city I found so many potential opportunities, it went to my head…I got somewhat arrogant and kept going for someone ‘hotter’ until my opportunities ran out.
Then I got out of shape and realized what a moron I’ve been and should’ve settled on one a lot sooner-strike when the iron is hot and I missed my chance…so my current loneliness is the price I pay for my stupidity when I was younger.
Ofc once you’ve dated hot girls, you can’t settle for less…at least they have to be cute/pretty enough and I don’t compromise on her being fit/in shape. Anyways once I’m fit again and not focused on money/work I believe nature has given me a second chance to get it right and I won’t screw it up this time around.
In your case, working out, fixing your teeth and bringing more to the table can attract girls and you also have to find someone at your level. I think there’s a person for everybody. I’ve seen midgets and hairy wolf-boys get decent girlfriends so if they can, anyone can too.
But yes when we die, so do our problems. A part of me wants to live forever, but only if I have an easy life…otherwise living is just pointless misery, suffering and struggle…so if I can’t have all the things I want, then death is definitely way more preferable. I’ve given myself till my 60s to reach the level I want, if I don’t then I will opt for euthanasia as it’s legal in Canada. But there are good reliable ways to ‘self-terminate’ if one chose to as well.
If disembodied souls existed, science would’ve discovered it, but ofc you can’t have consciousness without a brain, so when the brain dies, so do we. Regards.
Yeah, I’ve thought about getting veneers, but they still look kind of weird, and would eat up most of my savings. As I’m barely making enough to scrape by right now I’m hesitant to do that. And I kind of think “what’s the point?” I’ll still be fucked in the head, have very little confidence or experience. I still won’t feel able to connect with anyone. I’ll just be marginally more appealing to look at. I should probably prioritise working out though, for health reasons and self-respect as much as anything else.
I don’t think I’m really in a position to have any kind of standards. For anyone who’s not completely desperate there are so many red flags to put them off. My “level” is pretty much the deranged homeless bag lady who screams at random passers-by. So again I’m kind of like “what’s the point?”
I hear ya, it might be worth getting veneers, but like you said if you don’t have much money then it’s more of a luxury item. I’d suggest aiming for a ‘middle-class’ income if possible to boost your confidence and cash-flow.
It’s a trade-off, everyone has skeletons in their closet and ‘imperfections.’ Most people just hide it well until the girl falls in love for example then later they find out the ugly truths.
You have to start somewhere…like anything. I’ve dabbled in business and one of my first phone discussions with an CEO of a major company was awful, but over time I gained confidence and got better at it.
Sorry to hear about your standards, but I doubt it could be that bad…it’s more of a confidence issue I think. Perhaps you can find someone in a similar situation….like through dating sites.
Either you take a chance in life to try to get some happiness or persist in misery…we’re all going to die one day, but at least you want to be able to look back and be glad that you had some experiences or tried to at least.
While I’ve made my share of mistakes, I still plan to find ms right and hopefully end up in a better level, but even if I never do, at least I can say I gave it a shot…I might even considering lowering my standards a bit just to get something instead of nothing.
Yeah, a “middle-class income” is definitively on the to-do list, but in reality I struggle to force myself to look for more work. I find rejection pretty excruciating. For example, I had an opportunity to pick up some extra freelance work a few weeks back, and I blew it. It sent me into a real spiral that I found it hard to pull myself out of. And maybe I could work on that issue if I had a therapist, but that would again require money, so it’s kind of like a vicious circle.
I wish I could find someone in a similar situation to me, but I think due to the differences in men and women it just doesn’t map on. I don’t think women really get branded as “losers”, unless maybe they’re literally homeless, insane, and actually hideous. Different standards apply. It’s possible to be extremely shy and low-confidence as a woman and still be decently attractive to men. The same doesn’t really apply for men, unless your very physically good looking.
There’s a movie, I forgot the name… an Australian flick, that I think about when my mind goes to places like this. The movie was about a total fuckup, but he kept wondering if he could do 1 act of goodness would it redeem him? Not in religious terms but just on logical terms. Like no matter what your ugly past is, suppose you discovered the cure for cancer, or maybe more realistically, suppose you saved 1 kid from getting run over by a car. Wouldn’t that validate your entire life, regardless of what crimes you may have committed? To that 1 kid whose life you saved I’m sure it would. That kid wouldn’t care if you were once an axe murderer, as long as your journey led to 1 act of redemption.
Well that’s the thought that keeps me going at low times like you’re describing. We can’t change the past, but maybe we can build on top of the bones.
I don’t think it would, for me anyway. I think that kid would care that you were once an axe murderer, at least when they reached the age when they could fully understand the magnitude of what you’d done, and the kind of mind you’d have to have to do something like that. It wouldn’t necessarily make your act of redemption meaningless in their eyes, but I do think it would completely alter their view of you (unless there were some particularly sympathetic reason for the murder.)
Not to say at all that altruistic acts aren’t worth doing and can’t improve the way others view you (and I’m presuming you’re not an axe-murderer.) But there are a few things that do permanently mark you in the eyes of others, for understandable reasons.
I hear ya. Some crimes are unforgivable by society. But I think that’s society’s presumption. Notice how, in your case, it seems like anything you do will be tainted by how others judge you. That’s unfortunately how humans are. If an ex-Nazi tries to run a legitimate charity for victims of war, he’ll get fried for hypocrisy or at minimum being ‘tone deaf’ and I’m sure the charity would bomb, no matter how genuine the intentions.
There’s another movie (hah sorry, my entire life is built around movies & books since my real experiences aren’t worth thinking about) called Five Minutes of Heaven starring Liam Neeson as an ex-Irish Republican Army fanatic who commits a senseless hate murder, goes to prison for a few decades, then tries to turn over a new leaf by speaking out against violence. Meanwhile the brother of the victim is stalking him, preparing to kill him for vengeance sake.
I think that’s closer to reality. Humans preach tolerance and forgiveness but only up to a point. From the sound of it you’ve crossed that point, and I get it. You could save the world but you’d still be viewed as the monster.
My only argument against that hopeless scenario is that maybe it doesn’t matter how humans judge you. Maybe all that matters is if you can be happy with your own turnaround, your own acts of goodness to atone for your crimes. I once made a mistake that got someone killed. Since then I’ve tried like hell to stop that from happening to anyone else, and I’ve had a few successful moments. People would still judge me, so I keep it to myself, it helps lessen the burden.
I may be as guilty as anyone for being intolerant or judgmental, but my opinion shouldn’t matter. At the end of the day, I think each person is his own judge. If you could convince your judge (you) that you’re really trying, maybe one day you’ll get a pardon.
I think it’s less about the terrible thing in itself than the psychological reasons behind the act. I think most people could understand killing someone based on an ideology or political cause one believed in at the time. Obviously some are more judgemental than others, but I think most can imagine a cause they’d theoretically be willing to kill for. So if the murderer can later plausibly explain why they no longer believe in that cause or feel the killing was justified, they can then become “safe” in the minds of others and be reaccepted back into the moral community. The reason for the offence is no longer active.
There are plenty of plausible stories of people doing terrible things for bad reasons or in bad circumstances and finding redemption. That applies to a lot of gang members who murder as a result of violent circumstances. I remember a romcom called “Greenfingers” about a reformed criminal who I think killed someone in a fight as a young man. It’s pretty easy to root for someone who is obviously no longer a threat to those around him.
On the other hand, someone who killed those he had no comprehensible reason to hate, purely because he enjoyed the experience (e.g. a serial-killer), could never be considered “safe” in the eyes of others. Because you could never be sure he wouldn’t revert on a whim, just because he felt like it.
I’ve never killed anyone, but it’s more along those lines, where I did things purely because I felt like it. And because I’ve crossed certain boundaries, possibilities are open in my mind that mean I’ll never be completely “safe”.
I find it very hard not to be effected by how people I like, respect, and admire judge those like me. There’s something incredibly lonely and isolating about it. Because they’re right. I endorse their judgement of me. I wouldn’t want to be around someone who’d done the things I’ve done. I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone like me. I wouldn’t want anyone I care about to be involved with someone like me.
Intentions are incredibly important. Someone dying as a result of your mistake is tragic and horrifying, but very different from actually killing them yourself, still less from doing so purely for the pleasure of killing them. Some might still judge you through lack of empathy or rigid moral absolutism, but an accurate assessment of who you are as a person would be entirely different. It’s absolutely possible that you may have made the world a far better place as a result of your attempts to atone, but even if you hadn’t, it still wouldn’t in any way make you a monster.
Ah yes things get complicated when you’re driven by an inner ‘evil’. As much as I hate that label, I suppose anything we do just for the thrill, the chaos or the pure sadism of the act can be stamped ‘evil’. But I understand this also. I used to commit petty crimes, not to profit myself but just for the smug satisfaction of getting away with it. And although I stopped doing that a long time ago, I don’t feel any shame or guilt. Get me drunk and I’ll even brag about it. Maybe that’s closer to your situation, except your deeds/motivations weren’t so petty?
In any case, yeah it gets tricky. I personally believe humans are fundamentally flawed with a latent savagery baked into our DNA. Not everyone. But most people have a breaking point which can turn harmless grandmothers into bloodthirsty killers. This inner savagery is closer to the surface in habitual criminals, gang members, etc. maybe for reasons you said: the savagery is awakened by circumstances & misguided ideology, but the bottom line is the same… that killer instinct is awakened.
My point being we all have it in some capacity. The point of the human race, if there is a point, is to continue the evolution. Just as we’ve dumped our tail & fins, maybe we’re just in a transition to dump our violent urges.
Sounds good in theory, but it doesn’t really help the individual who’s struggling with this. Unless maybe the change can happen in 1 lifetime? Idk man, like I said, I’m still secretly proud of committing those petty crimes when I was a kid. Maybe we can’t change. The best we can do is act like we’ve sprouted a conscience, and if we keep up the act long enough people will think we’ve changed (and for all practical purposes maybe it’s true? What matters is how we act, not how we think?).
Yes, “evil” does make things incredibly complicated. And moral condemnation aside, I think’s that’s the appropriate word. The mind-fucking thing about evil is, although on some level you know you shouldn’t do something, it also feels super fucking good. Intoxicatingly good. I don’t think most would consider my deeds petty, though I suppose my motivations were arguably so. It wasn’t that it made me feel smug or satisfied to get away with it, but possibly more that I just felt lost in myself and was looking for some kind of more vivid experience, and felt entitled to do it. And later that I felt I needed to keep doing it in order to escape my own negative emotions. I definitely feel a lot of shame about it now, but there’s still a stubborn part of me that would defiantly justify what I did, and very much wants to do it again.
I agree there’s a lot of latent savagery within us as a species, and that in some it’s just a lot closer to the surface. And in others specific extreme circumstances activate it (war, for example.) But I do think it’s possible to trust that if someone has only acted in those ways in such specific extreme circumstances, then they’ll be able to keep it contained to some extent. Whereas if it arises within them during normal social conditions, they may never be safe.
I like the thought of being able to transcend our violent urges, as a species. I think doing it as an individual probably takes an awful lot of inner work and an enormous amount of conviction. What bothers me more is that I’d have no way to really convince someone who cared about me that I truly had changed, even if I somehow managed it.
Petty crimes aren’t great, but unless your friends would break contact with you for fear of you doing it to them, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Don’t sweat the small stuff, as they say.
I’ve been trying to convince myself for years now that my conscience is stronger, and that’s why I don’t act the same way. The reality is that I eventually just learned through long experience that it wasn’t worth the guilt that came afterwards. Pure selfish calculation combined with growing older. I might be able to lie and convince someone into believing that I’ve really changed deep down. But that’s not what I care about. I want at least one person who actually understands me, as I really am, without being repulsed.