Seriously, about anything and everything. Suicide related or not. I’ve actually had kind of a good day today… but now I’m really just crashing down into the dumps again (as per usualy, I suppose). I really just want to talk now. About myself or my own feelings orabout one of you and yours. Don’t care… just need a distraction.
I’m kind of new to this site, and not really sure if I can just start an open conversation like this… but… yeah… Just wanted to talk to someone.
Any takers?
~Ashley
135 comments
Yay, glad u had a good day. π
It’s a start.
We’re all spread across so many time-zones that conversations are difficult to start and maintain. We need an internet that travels in time.
You could email me if you want animecat9@aol.com
@causeway- lol. That would be very helpful. π
@silent survivor- I might just do that. π
Hey Ashley….looks like you’ve made yourself right to home….and good for you…will second what causeway said….sucks sometimes…but better than nothing…did you get my last comment on your other post?….let me know…hope you learn to feel as comfortable here as I have become in a fairly short time….Let me know what you think of this place….always around somewhere and open for questions….not sure about answers tho….i am here after all…lmao
Namaste
Amakua
Oops, didn’t see the new comment. lol.
I had asthma as a kid too. It cleared up when I was about 12 but it left me a very shallow breather with reduced lung capacity.
These days, if I want to experience tobacco, I go and buy some exotic flavoured pipe tobacco because I don’t have to inhale that to enjoy it. Not that I do it very often, mind. But it can be very relaxing and the ritual around it is very gratifying.
I’ve tried a couple flavored cigars (probably not the same experience is it?). But really just a few puffs on the insistance of a friend. It didn’t really appeal to me. I’ve also tried a couple different flavored cigarettes, and it just left my mouth and throat feeling weird. I basically had to wash out the taste with a regular old Marlborro red. lol. I think it’s just the flavor (or lack thereof) that I started with and probably the one I’m going to stick with. π
Oh, and doesn’t having asthma just royally suck? I mean, there are worse conditions to have, but… I still remember my first major attack. I was like eight or nine, and I thought I was gonna die. Even at that age, I didn’t get scared that easily, but I was scared shitless.
Well, you could try rolling your own – there are different brands of rolling tobacco, and different kinds of papers, licorice, for example. Also, rolling is much cheaper. No, I don’t like cigars either. My dad always smoked them so they bring back too many bad memories – like him turning up outide my school drunk out of his mind and puffing on a cheap cigar, declaiming to teachers and kids alike that someday he’d be a millionaire. He’s still only a tenner along the way…
I wouldn’t touch a manufactured cigarette, haven’t done for many years. In fact, I don’t smoke at all really, just the occasional pipe.
Oh yes, asthma is frighrening when you’re young. I never really had a serious attack. But I’d seen it happen to others and I could feel it crawling into my chest and lungs sometimes, especially during the winter.
Well, we could always create a forum for role play. :/
How exactly does one obtain the supplies to roll one’s own cigarettes? I know a couple people who do that, but it’s never really crossed my mind to ask. Like, where exactly to you get the paper and the tobaccco? I don’t recall ever seeing stuff like that in the store.
And God I hate that feeling when you breathe in a sudden rush of cold air. All of a sudden, it feels like there’s a gallon of ice cold water in your lungs.
@MizzMonoxideSugar- lol.
Also, very interessting name. Is there a story benind it?
@mizzmonoxidesugar – good idea – I bagsy the elf.
@ashley – they should have it in the store, perhaps you just haven’t noticed it or looked for it. Ask the assistant for handrolling tobacco, papers, and filter tips. Also buying one of those little rolling machines is useful until you get the hang of doing it for yourself. Don’t smoke em without filter tips – especially not if you had or had asthma.
Thanks for the tips causeway. π
And if we’re doing a forum for role play, I want to be a Keebler elf. XD
Oh I forgot to say, don’t buy the cheapest baccy they’ve got – it’s usually horrid. Golden Virginia is fine, something like that.
Fine you can join my army and then we can rid the planet of non-suicidal humans.
Hey, Ashley. If you want, you can email me at farmerstrong13@hotmail.com. I’m always open for conversations. I’ve been through suicidal thoughts and I’ve talked people out of suicide. I know what it’s like.
Yeeeessss. Mwahahahahahaha!
WHO WILL JOIN US!?!?!?! *looks around expectantly*
Must be all in a different time-zone. Must be. π
sher why not… could i be a ghost tho?
@causeway- those cowards.
@fsrmerstrong13- Thanks. π At the moment I’m actually doing pretty well. Though don’t be surprised if I take you up on your kind offer in the near or distant future.
In the mean time, feel free to join our army. lol
Did someone call for an army of resistance fighters? If so, I’m in.
All welcome.
I got my battle plan from Edmund Coopers’s book All Fools’ Day – in which a solar flare kills of all the normal people in the world, leaving only the suicidal and the artists and writers and transients.
How do we organise a solar flare?
That’s awesome. I’m in. π
that kinda suks tho i mean a world full of suicidal people is hardley sustainable i mean we all end up killing ourselfs, that said im sure if u fired enouf stuff into the sun u bound to make a flare
I dunno, procel – I think if we removed all the commerce and competition and cruelty people from the world we could create the kind of society that we’d want to live in. We wouldn’t be suicidal anymore. We’d become safe because we’d be artists or writers or transients and as such wouldn’t have to perform/hide/pretend.
then we too should die in the solar flare cause if we have the potential to not be suicidal then we would not be truely suicidal nd therefore would not be spared. it seems to me the idea pisses everyone off. the people who want to live die nd the people who want to die live but if u can make a solar flare that kills things im in anyway muahahahahaha
@sauseway- I gotta say, the world you just described sounds pretty sweet.
lol. **causeway. my bad
The potential not to be suicidal is not the same as the will to live. Why should the possibility of even desiring life mean death? You’re not giving yourself any chances is all. π
Well Ashley….i see you are doing just great….glad to see it….how are you finding it so far?…myself i’m not taking anything seriously anymore…time to smoke…eat…wash…and play the fool….my specialty…lol…you are in good company here…hope i catch up with you tomorrow…take the rest of the night off and play little warrior….you deserve it….and as i say you are in good company here….with the exception of GoodGirl…the name is a beard…that one might actually kill ya….lol…with kindness or sarcasm….but dead nonetheless….
Have a good one all
Amakua
thats the point causeway a catch 22 if u will where i get to die o nd was thinking about the contents of the book. do u think heroin would work instead of sleeping pills?
AmakuaI think it may be silly, ridiculous, totally irrelevant conversations like this one that will get me through those more difficult days. π
I tried sleeping pills 20 years ago, not prescription kind, just OTC, didn’t know any better as an 18 year old kid. I will never use pills again though.
I don’t know. If you want to talk about it email me but let’s not do it on Ashley’s thread.
OH they will Ashley….these conversations really pass the time and help you smile a little bit.
Hey, this is not a ridiculous conversation – I’m talking about my plans for other-world domination. Respect, please. π
ya was thinken the same thing after i posted it nd ya Ashley the hours literally fly when ur in a massive convo
jesus procel…your up late
lol. My apologies Commander causeway. What are your orders?
i know i only ment to put up my post nd fuk off funny thing is i was going to go to lectures tommorow lol that aint happenen now lol
@Procel and solitarywalker- Just curious, where do you guys live that it’s so late? I’m in Ohio, and it’s only 8:30 here. lol.
@Amakua, you calling me a beard and a killer in one sentence? This means war. ;]
My orders – I order you to go to youtube and learn the art of handrolling. Maybe when we can light miniature suns the big stuff’ll be a cinch.
Ashelly shes in america nd im in ireland where it 1:42 by my clock in the mornen nd a tip with rolen once uve someone to show u the first too or tree just practice a couple more then start drinking nd when u tipsy/drunk i always make the best rollies @ that stage
Yes sir! *diligently runs off to complete task*
lol
@Procel- I don’t drink. And all of a sudden I read your comments with an irish accent. π (and I’m not just talking about the modifications you made, though those did make me laugh).
π oh drunk people…and its 8:47 over in indiana
Do you use filters, procel?
@solitarywalker- Congratulations! You and me are now time-zone buddies! *jumps up and down in excitement*
haha u should drink, its the best way nd what modifications?
Oi sol im not drinking on a sunday jaysus woman! (my flatmate has a cold nd didnt want to go drinken)
course causeway Rizla ultra slim ones nd the same brand skinns in green also drum tobacco but thinken of trying clan, me da usto smoke clan for years
so your not drunk…damn
Ai darlin sorry to let the sterio type down
no, its just that you would skype me if you were drunk π
i would but one prob darlin the webcam doesnt work
yeah….
besides darlin we cant be skyping when causeway is drawing up battle plans
drum? Tried it. Took the lining off my throat.
Ashley, You should be aware I’m in Ireland too so you’re quite safe from conscription. Sol think we’re all drunks and it renders us quite harmless. It makes us so harmless we can’t even harm ourselves. π
sure, sure…
@Procel- lol. when I said I don’t drink, I mean I can’t. First, I’m not of drinking age (though that doesn’t mean I couldn’t get ahold of alcohol if I wanted to). Second, I’m on and off several medications that don’t react well with alcohol. And lastly, I actually have some lasting kidney damage from my last attempt. It’s nothing too serious, but if I drink even a little bit of alcohol, I become violently ill.
So… yeah, drinking’s kinda out for me.
never like smoking anyway thats why im on rollies, depending on my mood i put in as much or as little as i want nd we irish are a harmless bunch anyway nd a fresh scar on my leg kinda ruins the last bit of ur comment causeway sorry π
@causeway- lol. I love the Irish. and it has nothing to do with my mostly Irish heritage. Just experience. lol
we have some time for it sol nd ya ashley that not a good option for u, a good way out but bad thing for u to do nd if u were to want alcohol try getting a homeless person to buy it by offering them more money or something, nd how did u attempt last time?
@Procel- locked myself in a bathroom at school and swallowing like 40 sleeping pills (trazdone).
tactically speaking a bad location, means u were desperate? what tipped u over the edge?
does that mean u had trouble sleeping or did u steal the pills nd who found u?
Feel free to tell me to feck off if u want darlin
@procel, sorry. π I’ll be heading off to bed shortly so why dont you take a bit of time with Sol, if poss.
@ashley – That must have been why I was crazily attracted to this thread – you must have telepathically tagged it blarney.
Causeway! dude… ill be heading soon anyway
i feel special now π because someone knows my name
Me too. 2.10am and I gotta be up early.
course u special lol nd im ment to get up at 8 but i just realised ive no idea what rooms im in anyway
@Procel-
Nah, I came to this site to talk. I won’t get angry when people ask questions. π The entire story is far too long to re-tell but the answers to your questions are all in my first post, just a couple days ago. Feel free to read.
Although one thing isn’t in there. The pills were mine. And I’ve had major sleep issues for years.
just read it… dont be offended but i find u utterly fasinating.
lol. I have to ask why anyone would find that offensive. π
May I ask why? I’ve always thought of myself as a ratther boring person.
i wouldnt personally but i did get a slap for saying that to someone before, long story.
think she felt lika a sample under a microscope or something… with regards to the psychiatric ward what was it like? might sound odd but ive kinda always wanted to be in one
why i find u fascinating? uve a high iq for one, that means ull be fun to talk to, u see through the bulshit to the level u realise the worthlessness of this world which is always fun u stopped talking, something i always wanted to do but would ruin by the erge to make a sarcastic comment, were in a psych word wich im curious over nd just… curious
The psych ward? It really was quite nice. And to be honest, I had always wanted to as well, just to see what it was like.
Well, the first night, I stayed in the max security wing (where the REAL crazy people were). Apparently that’s protocol though, unitl they ascertain whether or not I was “majorly crazy” or “just a tad insane” (lol. those are the terms I used anyway).
Once they made sure that I was just depressed and not, like, completely psychotic, or something, they moved me to the “600 wing*. Which is what they called their “slightly lower, but still tightly secured psych ward”.
After that it was just sitting around, watching TV, talking with the other patients. We had to go to two “classes” every day, but they were simple (and sometimes enjoyable). There was a big flat screen TV in the common area, and a smaller (but still noce) TV in every patient’s room.
The food was surprisingly good, and the nursing staff were all really nice people who seemed to actually care about our well-beings.
The only thingmI disliked, like I said in my first post, was the one-on one sessions with my shrink. He was a nice guy, but I didn’t want to answer any of the questions he was asking.
Basiccally, psych wards are made to be worry-free environments where people go to heal.
Of course, I was pretty heavily drugged while I was there. For all I know, it was a horrible torture chamber and I just didn’t notice. lol
Did that answer your question? π
hmm love & infatuation is blossoming i see π
Lol, about the staying silent thing. I was SO fighting the to throw out a sarcastic quip or two on more than one occasion, but I think my anger that no-one cared enough to notice kind of over-rode that.
lol @ For all I know, it was a horrible torture chamber and I just didnΓ’β¬β’t notice
@adastra- lol.
oddly enough its made me more curious about the psych ward but sadly even tho ive delayed it as long as i can i must sleep 5 hours π um so ill have more questions when i back… u know (real-foudy@hotmail.com) i kinda want to keep talken to u, so feel free to email me, if u want, dont if u dont gnight darlin’s
and ya, ash i just hate retards so much its a compulshion to tell them so so deepest respect for managing not to
cya procel …
Ashley, ive said this before but ive often found highly intelligent people suffer from some kind of despression as is evidenced also by a lot of pple here …if u read thru their posts/comments etc u can quickly tell what kind of pple are here ….
I think i said it elsewhere but intelligent people often have a higher awareness of things and ‘sometimes’ let things overwhelm them more then other pple who often dont consider too many things indepth.
Ha! lol. Feel free to question away whenever you want. I find it therapeutic. And even though it’s only like ten at night here, I need some sleep too. I haven’t slept in like 36 six hours (no idea why).
So goof night. π
adastra, if you’re still here, goodnight too you too. π
~Ashley
take care Ash ….get some sleep.
oops. didn’t catch your comment before I posted mine.
And I will answer quickly by saying, I completely agree with you.
I’d like to elaborate further, but as my previous post said, I need some sleep. π
I *shall* elaborate further tomorrow when I am no longer nodding off at the computer. lol
Goodnight.
π
~Ashley
go to bed 36 hours!!?? dear god! π
36 hours is hard core ash fare play, regularly last 24 hours myself…
what were the other… inhabitants like? was there anything mentally stimulating there? id be guessing not, did they lock your door at night? what colour were the walls? what view was out the windows? did they keep u drugged all the time? and hope ud a good bit of sleep ash
while i think of it ash (u dont mind me shortenen ur name do u?) some questions u might be abel to answer in the post “how?” if u want
Okay, I’m awake now. After nearly fifteen hours of blessedly peaceful sleep, I’m finally awake. π
@Procel- the other patients (lol inhabitants) were great. I think I probably talked/interacted with every one of them at one point or another whether we played chess or talked about something completely irrelevent (or sometimes, something completely relevent) lol. I tended to stick around one guy in particular (brian) when I wasn’t in a class or talking to the other patients. And I think everone else did kind of similar things. We were all pretty comfortable with each other, but a lot of the time we kind of paired off with who we were MOST comfortable with. Except for the fact that we were all currently residing in a psych ward, I wouldn’t have thought of any of the other patients as crazy. They all seemed like level-headed (mostly intellegent) people.
For mental stimulation? There really wasn’t much, but I think that’s done on purpose by the hospital. There were a few board games lying around and we (to my surprise) had free range over the TV (although several of the channels were blocked, but nothing major). I think I challenged just about everyone (that includes the nurses, orderlies,, and doctos) to a game of chess. Despite this, I didn’t really get bored. And believe me, that is a huge feat, considering how easily bored I get. I think the fact that Brian, the guy I hung out with mostly, was studying to be a bichemist and was pretty damn intellegent made it so that interessting conversation was not hard to find. π
They did not lock our doors at night, which I was thankful for. I probably would have freaked out if they did. They DID however perform room checks every fifteen minutes. It wasn’t too bad- they would just peek through the door and make sure you were doing okay. Like no major nightmares or psychotic breakdowns.
The walls were all kind of earthen colors.Browns, greens, tans. Like I said before, it was supposed to be a low-stimulating environment, so no brightly colored walls (which thankfully included stark white).
They had a lot of wiindows, like a ridiculous amount. I figured they were trying to combat seasonal affective disorder. As for the view? Some of the patients rooms had decent views of the sunset, but usually if you were looking out the window, you were looking at a parking lot.
We all had completely different drug regimens. I took pills four times a day, while some patients didn’t take any meds at all. If we needed it and were willing to take them, we were given medications. If you didn’t want to take your meds, it’s not like the orderlies would tackle you and jab a needle in your neck to sedate you. They just made a note to your doctor to let him/her know and went on their merry way.
I hope you find my answers helpful. π
And thank you, I had a wonderful sleep. π
Now, it may be because I just woke up, but I’m not sure what you mean in your second comment. Can you explain?
~Ashley
Oh, and no, Ash is fine with me. I don’t mind. π
very helpfull thanks ash. ill have more questions on that nd other things after i digest this… it sounds like a much nicer place than on tv or how others let on. although im supprised they leave the doors unlocked, id be too tempted to dissapear for that nd i ment that in the post “how?” im asking for a logical justification for suicide, nd intelligent people should be abel to find it
@adastra- About your previous comment about highly intellegent people often suffering from some sort of depression. Once again, I’d like to say, I totally agree with you. It’s unbelievable how many intellegent people I meet who are also severely depressed (or vice versa).
The one thing that has always made me wonder though, is it the intellence that causes the higher awareness, which causes the depression? Or is the other way around? Hmmmm. If it were depression that subsequently caused my intellegence, I’m not so sure I’d want to get rid of it. I like being smart. π
Last night, I had way more to say on the subject, but now I can’t remember. lol. But that was the little idea that popped into my head when I read what you wrote. π
Also, yes, I have noticed andd am quite pleased that there seem to be so many intelligent and self-aware people on this site. It makes for wonderful conversations.
lol. Hence the above posted comments about solar flares, world domination, suicidal armies, and the inner intricasies of psych wards.
~Ashley
I firmly believe it is through inteligence we gain higher awarness and through that we realise the futility of the world nd see there is no point in living nd realise the logical conclusion of suicide
Hey guys,
A coople of things ~ “a low-stimulating environment” ….is the foundation to mental health & recovery often. It’s why i tell younger people (eg teens) who can’t sleep to ideally stay off the net and social networking sites before bed, otherwise they can be both positively or negatively over stimulated and then find it hard to sleep, but worse, unable to function the next day in school, gradually leading to a spiral of poor performance and then associated issues etc etc.
Suffice to say i see ‘social networking’ as having some benefits but a lot of drawbacks for young people too. Young people are becoming addicted to electronics and ‘virtual worlds’ and gradually becoming unable to function in their real worlds nowdays. BIG increasing trend.
But i digress too.
The basis of intelligence & awareness is ‘a desire’ for it too.
But here is the trap, some ‘otherwise everyday/dare i say it normal people” focus too much on things that have little OR no impact in their daily lives and so overwhelm themselves wih everything in the world but are unable to attend to their own daily life.
Life is not futile procel. It is through our efforts that we ‘better it’ for ourselves and for others. Sucide is actually illogical. If you are given life and you will inevitably pass, why bring it on quicker? Doesnt make sense.
People escape for all manner of things in all manner of ways ~ drinking, drugs, self harm, etc. If we all just escape problems and problem solving then the world will only get worse.
So forgive me if i disagree with your assessment.
Is the govt & industry so inept & morally bankrupt that they dont look after their citizens anymore, well i do believe that is an increasing trend. But trust me, things will change also with the efforts of good people.
Some people don’t forgive nor forget.
Enjoy & all the best.
@Procel- Oh, yeah, I was surpised too. It didn’t seem to be a problem though. People were allowed to leave their rooms at night. There was no enforced bedtime, or anything like that. It never seemed to be a problem, at least not while I was there.
TV over-dramatizes everything. But, I think I was lucky, in that I went to a very high-tech hospital, one of the best in the state. For all I know other psych wards are just as terrifying s they are on TV.
Justification? Oh, I’ve got lots of that. π In a pinch, I usually just go with (Everyone would be better off without me” thing. It’s true. I really am a burden to a lot of people. But in reality, there were multiple variables…
Basically, before my attempts, the things stopping me were as follows;
1. Religion- I’m Chrsitian. Nothing hard-core fanatical. In fact, I tend to call myself spiritual instead of religious. But I was still kind of worried about the consequences of suicide. I have never believed that those who commit suicide would go to Hell, but at the same time, I was willing to admit that I may be wrong.
2. Friends and family- I’ve always put others before myself. And the fact that I would hurt my loved ones by killing myself never sat well with me.
3.Cowardice- I’ve always had a ridiculously high pain tolerance, and therefore, pain has never really scared me. The process of dying has never really scared me. Death itself however… what comes after? That’s an absolutley terrifying concept. Like I said before, I have my beliefs, but I have my doubts too.
And here is what I used to justify my attempts. Basically, what helped me get over those problems.
1. Religion- I read a book. I know, right? The accounts of a single person shouldn’t be enough to convinve me, but it worked for me. It was a first person account of the after-life. A man attempted suicide, and actually succeeded. He was dead for for nearly three minutes before a doctor was able to restart his heart and bring him back. The book went on to describe what the man experienced while he was dead. Suffice to say, it convinced me that those who commit suicide were still able to get into Heaven.
2. Friends and family- A freshman girl at our high school committed suicide. They announced it over the PA system. Basically the entire school was silent for the next couple minutes. Then lots of people burst into tears. I didn’t know the girl, but apparently she had been a nice, well-liked person. For the rest of the day, everyone was a little subdued. While in the hallway, students barely talked. It was a sad day at our school…. that is not what changed my mind though. It was the next day that did it. Everyone was back normal… like nothing had changed. It made me question just how much suicide affects people in the long-run. Sure, there’s a lot of sadness at the beginning, but people get over things like that. Eventually things like that are forgotten. I figured if the people at school could get over the suicide of a fellow classmate in less than 24 hours, my loved ones would eventually get over it too.
3. Cowardice- I’m not entirely sure how I got over the cowardice. I think after a while life just seemed to suck so much more than my worst theories of what the afterlife could be like.
Now, I realize that I was just deluding myself, looking for deeper meaning where there was none. I was looking for reasons to justify my own suicide, so I found them.
Does that work as justification? or id I miss the mark? π
~Ashley
@adastra- I totally agree about the “social networking” thing Kids- especially kids around my age- are expeirencing less and less face-to-face communication and, to put it bluntly, it’s totally fucking them up. You can’t function socially if you have no social experience to speak of (and no conversations on Facebook don’t count).
When you say “suicide is illogical” I whole-heartedly agree. The whole point of life is to survive. Humans are the only species that commit suicide for reaons other than procreation (that I’m aware of anyways) But I must also point out that I have yet to meet a single person who is completely and utterly logical.
We are illogical beings trapped in a logical world.
~Ashley
@Procel- It is futile. We will all die eventually, and chances are that we will not change the world in any huge way while we’re here. But at the moment, I think I’m content with that. I may not change the world, but I have the ability to change someone’s life (for the better, hopefully). π
I want to agree with conclusion of suicide, but I’m feeling unually chipper this afternoon and I feel the need to disagree….
Through inteligence we gain higher awarness and through that we realise that the world sucks… (I’m paraphrasing here. :P)… but the logical conclusion is NOT suicide. The world is usually a pretty horrible place, but that no reason to give up. It’s a reason to persevere and make the world better…. even if it is one person at a time.
I dont get how suicide is not logical conclusion. i mean death is death and nothing we do in this life matters so why bother living? prehaps im missing something? if i am someone enlighten me please. the best way to explane what i mean when i say justify suicide would be my dream i mention of basically standing with a gun behind a guy kneeling down who keeps asking why… look at it as if suicide is u holding the trigger to the guys head who asks for a reason nd give the logic that way? does that make scence?
Damn i like ur psych ward! Im a catholic by baptism and mass every sunday etc but i still dont really believe in it ya know when u (ash) say about the book nd ur man that visited heaven i cant help but think that thats our minds/souls playing a movie of our perfect after life ya know? i dont get how heaven can exsist or god can exsist nd with regards to the social networks nd such interfering with sleep. thats prob the main reason i love the internet. it makes it easier to get less sleep
I don’t think it’s so much that you’re missing something. I’ve decidied that suicide (at the moment anyway) is not an option. I’ve made that decision based off of experiences from my own life. You can’t quite understand my reasoning, because you haven’t lived the life I have. Just like I can’t quite understand your reasoning, because I don’t have your life.
In other words, I don’t think either one of us is wrong. We just have differing opinions because we’re different people.
Oh, I think I understand now. It was because of failure. So many failures. When I get particularly depressed, it’s because of one single thing that I failed at, or that I gave up on, and at times, in my mind, it just made me seem like a horrible person. One that didn’t deserve to live.
I myself tend to believe more than doubt what I’ve learned (religion-wise). I mean, I believe there is a God. But at the same time, I don’t think it was an almighty, magical force that created our existence. I like to think of God as a scientist instead of a sorceror. π
And if it is just “our minds/souls playing a movie of our perfect after life”, as you put it, would that really be so bad? Ignorance is bliss my friend. As long as we never knew it was an illusion or something like that, would it really matter?
lol. These are just random thoughts I had while reading your comment.
~Ashley
suppose that makes scence… how u spell scence? but surely theres a universally acceptable logical argument for suicide, that no one can argue with??? i mean it is right therefore it is justafiable for everyone? u do deserve to live ash the fact u failed means that u wernt ment to die either that or u were too stupid to pull it of nd with the little i know of u i know that u more than intelligent. How can there be a god? how can some bastard visit this on us? if this shit is the result of god then im glad i think he dont exsist. we would be disieved… it wouldnt be real… the illusion would not be whats actually going on… random thoughts are the best thoughts ash
Okay, few things if i may ….
~We are illogical beings trapped in a logical world~ That is a near perfect summation of humanity past, present and likely even future.
Well said.
All problems are ‘problems with peoples thought’, or more accurately, problem solving.
eg: where certain illnesses, diseases, were once thought incurable, some are now curable or at worst treatable, and insights/understandings are being discovered every day.
Im all for giving people especially those in need, dignity, support and as much practical help as possible. If we all just threw our hands up in the air and said this is too hard, because we had no internal willpower, courage, fortitude, then we may as well go back to living in the caves.
Humans are here to overcome adversity, not give up in the face of it. Sadly, the ‘majority’ do. But there is always ‘a minority’ that disregard the majority.
eg: doctors (ie experts of their time) once thought Australian (and asian/african) natives who suffered so called degenerative eye conditions did so because of poor genes and were incurable. A eye specialist by the name of Fred Hollows investigated and went against the establishment and proved otherwise. He has since worked tirelessly on restoring vision for many 10s of thousands of poor people who could not afford help. He had a famous saying, “The eye sight of the poorest person in the world is just as important as the richest person in the world, be they king or queen” (words to that effect)
Conventional thinking is often just majority thinking of the time, which in itself is an oxymoron, because the majority rarely think, rather they absorb what they media tells them, because its easy.
I don’t know you procel, but you seem pretty ‘clued up’ on a lot of things but i also disagree on some things. Prety normal really.
Heaven / Hell i believe is somewhat mythical but if it gives people peace Im all good with it. Either way doesnt harm me.
That said, death is death. Not really.
Just think about ‘the intelligence’ of nature/life.
By joining two microscopic cells, we can “unzip”(like a computer file) their chemical databse to outwardly create physical matter ~ ie skeletal systems, flesh, veins, organs, and a functioning body.
And yet, a nihilists viewpoint would likely say there is no intelligence or prupose in the world. And yet, all this ‘higher/smarter’ intelligence is all around us.
I go back to Ashleys astute observation ~ We are illogical beings trapped in a logical world.
As for death, most people couldnt see the life & intelligence in two simple cells if i showed them that. Most would just devalue it like they devalue many things in life. And yet, higher intelligence (than humans) is there. So too most people assume death is death.
All physical matter from the smallest atom to the largest sun go thru the same phases in life ~ birth, growth, transformation into ‘other forms’
Buddhists understand this as do scientists.
More to it, but im just saying don’t just take th easy route and devalue life and assume there is nothing else.
Humans understand very little about ourselves let alone the workings of the entire universe.
There is no perfect life. There is just adversity and problem solving with our minds & bodies. It also helps to laugh at adversity in the face. Humour never killed anyone. being too serious did. π
Enjoy…
@Procel-
lol. We say sense.
I’m sure there’s an acceptable, logical argument for suicide out there somewhere. But, I’m also pretty sure there’s a logical argument out there for everything, Hell, I figure Hitler had what he thought was a logical argument to defend everything he did. Not saying I agree with what he did- the exact opposite in fact.
As for an argument that’s logical and therefore justifiable for EVERYONE? I don’t think there’s a single thing in the world that “everyone” agrees on. Whether it’s about suicide, politics, or favorite ice cream flavor. Hell, if you made the argument that 2+2=4, I’m sure *someone* in the world would disagree.
Reasons are unique to the individual. I don’t think any one argument can be made to justify suicide for everybody. People are just too different.
I’d like to preface what I’m about to say next by saying that these are merely my opinions. I’m not trying to force down your throat or anything. π
That being said,
I once heard a quote from a philosepher (can’t remember the name-someone from the Enlightenment) that said that God was like a clockmaker. He made the world, wound it up, and let it run its own course. God gave us free-will. It was a wonderful gift. But some people have taken it too far and made the world a really shitty place for the rest of us. Humans are to blame for most of the horridness of the world. The rest (natural disasters, terminal illness… stuff like that which people often blame on God) is just the world going through the motions… Someone dies- the world moves on.
Does that make any sense? I don’t know. It is a very confusing subject. I tend to try not to think too deeply about it. Otherwise, I get all philosophical, and then I just get more confused. lol π
Also, I’m not sure how popular it was outside of the US, but did you ever see the movie “The Invention of Lying”? It was a comedy, but it gave a very interesting view of the world, as well as religion. And while I didn’t exactly agree with it, it was still a great movie.
~Ashley
@adastra-
Some very deep thoughts ya got there. π
“Conventional thinking is often just majority thinking of the time” That is an unbelievably true and sad fact. If people were able to think for themselves and not be so incredibly insulted when someone disagrees with them, I think the human race would advance much quicker than it has before.
The intellegence of nature/life… Beautifully said. I can’t stand it when people refuse to acknowledge the beauty, intellegence, and simple importance of our natural surroundings.
“There is no perfect life. There is just adversity and problem solving with our minds & bodies. It also helps to laugh at adversity in the face. Humour never killed anyone. being too serious did”
That it does, adastra. I also find that punching adversity in the face is quite cathartic. Being stubborn, fighting back, standing your ground. When you’re successful, it’s a great ego boost, which is something I think we (at least on theis sitee) all need every once in a while.
~Ashley
second that ashley …. nicely said re punching adversity in the face. i concur!
ps: i will have to see @ invention of lying, sounds fun ….
It really is a great movie. π If you are religious, you’ll need a pretty damn good sense of humor though. lol
lol @ ashley ~ Does that make any sense? I donΓ’β¬β’t know. It is a very confusing subject. I tend to try not to think too deeply about it. Otherwise, I get all philosophical, and then I just get more confused. lol
Yes all that you said prior makes sense and is a nice metaphor for life.
All life from the smallest atom to the largest sun ~ enters (starts), journeys, returns (death is just transformation at an energy level unseen to the human eye/mind).
@adastra- Thanks, I’m never sure if my rambling can be understood by other people. I’ve got a good enough vocabulary and a firm enough grasp of the English language that I can write eloquently, but sometimes, I jump from subject to subject so quickly that it gives the reader a headache (or so say my 10th and 11th grade English teachers)
And once again…
“All life from the smallest atom to the largest sun ~ enters (starts), journeys, returns (death is just transformation at an energy level unseen to the human eye/mind).:
very well put. π
don’t blame yourself on that one, blame the interwebs, it destroys any semblance of good teachings we absorb and our ability to functionally communicate.
that said, i ‘like’ your attitude ….. and your ability to express yourself is evidently quite high.
i gtg ..work calls …. stay well and take care …
Ykay. Incredibly interesting conversation. π I enjoyed it very much. I’ll talk to you later.
right i will disagree with ye in the mornen. i apolagise cause at the moment im drinking nd forget alot of what yer said… i apolagise cause i hate drinking but… fuk it. ill leave with this. if there is a god then why did he put something like me in the world. why was he so cruel to create me then make me want to die? does he get a kick out of being a sadistic dick head? i mean he hasnt even given me the ability to overcome the self preservation instinct, ive got to work on it my self so i say fuk ur god, nd fuk the afterlife
ps as ive said to others here, pls feel free to contact me on email/msn …as im not here much ….. always happy to chat or offer advice where possible to good pple ….. (just add my nicname here to 389@hotmail.com for email/msn)….its my my other posts ….look them up if u want to read long winded posts/comments lol
stay well …
Ad Astra
ps u may have to approve that last comment as ur the moderator …
Yikes procel, I know you’re drinking and pissed at life, but that was kinda harsh to say to Ashley. Maybe skip out on the drunk typing for tonight?
sher its a frank discussion GG if its not possible to say whats on ur mind whats the point?
besides her view of after life seems to be fare close to what i was indoctranted into. O nd Ash something that came to mind about the ward…
why did u leave?
procel ….
apology accepted …its fine.
Btw, god didnt create you, your parents did, with their genetic material. I don’t personally know your situation procel, but you actually seem like a decent person.
I also dont believe in an interventionist type creator aka what the religions teach per se.
Hardships are our reality but our attitude is how we overcome them, both from a motivational pov and also a scientific one. ie thru gaining knowledge do we overcome things.
People say believe in god etc …i actually say believe in your self, and then look for other good people.
Take care irish …. (ps a good friend of mine is from country cork) ….
Ad
Well, procel, you know I don’t believe in God or an afterlife, but I think she does and saying “fuck your god” is kinda harsh.
well i can already see ur flawed adastra for one u think im descent. nd there is a theory that god creats everything… the prob is i cant believe in myself, thats just silly. nd why would u want to overcome something? please tell me why u bother to overcome stuff. think bout it., Why? nd funnily enough me flatmate nd i were discussing it nd we find it helarious how many irish.half irish people there are out there
nd thnks for acceptong my appoligie <3
GG it prob is but see im trying to inspire confrontation and debate not molly cuddle. @ash if u want me to molly cuddle let me know nd ill leave
lol Okay whatever works for you.
@adastra- thanks (by the way, do you mind if I call you ady?) π
@TheGoodgirl- Don’t worry about it. I love having conversations like this and it’s actually incredibly difficult to insult me. Also, I realise the drinking probably has something to do with the hardhness, but I really don’t mind.
@Procel- I won’t assume to know God’s intentions. No one does. Honestly if you want some solid answers, I’d go to the pastor of your church (or any church really), and ask him/her exactly what you just asked here…
I’m not sure it would help, but maybe… they could give you some sort of insight… maybe not.
The only thing I can think to say is that the feeling of overcoming a problem is far more satisfying than the feeling of having no problems in the first place. We are given hurdles in life so that we can get over them (or go around them, if we’re stubborn enough.)
~Ashley
Hum, I have it on good authority that God committed suicide because while He created depression He left it to the human race to create anti-depressants.
ur faith is odd ash it reminds me of me ma’s no matter what she believs but… how? i admire ur strenth but… i dunno i walays presumed smart people didnt believe in god cause they saw through it… u smart nd believe, thats annoying now ive got t0o revise my views, which i enjoy btw. talk to my priest? haha im sorry but i actually laughed aloud at that. i accidentloy told my flat mate i was suicidal nd through the whole convo i spent the whole time convincing him i was messen, not fun so priest the same nd im not drinken!
haha causeway thats good!
i do agree with GG on this one, where others find comfort shouldnt be a source for abuse or ridicule for others.
We can all talk or if you prefer debate issues with some mutual respect. Not too difficult for modestly intelligent people.
That said, there is little value in debating anything wortwhile with people drinking simply because they are ‘Non compos mentis’ (not of sound mind).
Clarity is the basis of good inspired debate, not alcohol.
Procel, As to ur query why would u want to overcome something ~ if everyone person throughout history ran away from any semblance of challenge or difficulty, then no progress in knowledge, science, solutions would have ever been achieved.
Quite literally people would still be living in tree’s. Maybe you dont value the positive contribution of others, but some of us do.
Humanity is a force. We can be both good and evil. What we choose however, is whatdefines our character.
I gtg, work beckons me, so maybe more indeoth discussion another time.
Stay well
Ad Astra Per AsPera (latin meaning ~ To The Stars Thru Difficulty)
pity, i love a good debate based on rational logic …. another time …. π
Γ’β¬ΛThe soft-minded man always fears change. He feels security in the status quo, and he has an almost morbid fear of the new. For him, the greatest pain is the pain of a new idea.Γ’β¬β’
Γ’β¬β Martin Luther King
Lol @ the word molly cuddle. π Never heard that before. Though I assume it has a similar definition as the word coddling? If so, I get enough of that from my doctors. Feel free to initiate confrontation. Although I can almost guarantee that it won’t make me react any differently.
Procel, I’d try taking baby steps. First acknowledge that you do in fact exist, then go from there. Believing in youself isn’t hard. It takes just a little self-centeredness. But that comes naturally to all humans, soooo….
Maybe my experience with men of the cloth is different then yours. The current pastor at our church is actually a really good friend of mine. He’s pretty young (he and his wife just had their first child). I feel like I can talk about anything with him. Of course, it helps that he knows about my slightly-less-than-desirable mental health. I’m guessing your pastor is as approachable?
@causeway- lol. That is funny. π
ur right adastra i shouldnt be here Sorry Ash enjoy life nd all that happy go luky stuff
email me if u want to chat but im going from here, never should have come back
Aw. Procel, don’t worry about it. We can still talk. I’m all for a debate.
procel, people here are glad that you came back.