I had an abortion 3 months ago which I deeply regret and the pain has grown day by day ever since. I’ve had enough of this pain and I want to end it. Can people please message me with their views and/or suggestions? Thank you.
I am pro choice.
I think you had your reasons to go and have an abortion. I don’t know about your circumstances but clearly you didn’t have the circumstances to have a baby. And in my opinion that’s the key.
I wouldn’t feel guilty if I had no money/man-husband/good conditions to provide a baby because those things are elemental to provide a good life. Otherwise it would be a struggle for you and the baby too.
Thanks NiDDA for your reply. I did want the baby and my life isn’t worth living anymore. I’m looking for people to message me with sourcing substances.
A combination of family members putting pressure on me and slumping into a depression. I want my baby back. I want to go to wherever it is we go after we die so I can be with the baby. I really want to find out where I can get certain substances that I’ve read about. Please pm me if you have knowledge of this.
I am so so that that happened to you. I can’t imagine the pain you’re in. The same thing happened to my mother once. So many people don’t understand how much it can crush a person. But please don’t end your own life to be with your baby. I’m sure your child doesn’t want that. I’m sure he or she wants you to live.
Like I said, my mother was also pressured into having an abortion, before she had me. After her abortion, her life didn’t end, even though the pain in her heart was so heavy. She went on to have four children, and she is happy to be alive and with us today. Please don’t kill whatever future you may have, Cantgetover. Living could be so very worth it.
Agreed with Nidda’s post. It’s clear you had an abortion because it was the sensible and rational thing to do.
Raising a child is extremely difficult-I’ve seen it with my siblings. It’s hard enough with a spouse, but if you’re on your own, it’s even worse. You’ll barely get any sleep for the first couple of years, they require constant attention, you can never leave them alone for extended periods and then you have to make sure you can afford all the expenses.
Unless you are physically, mentally, financially and emotionally ready for kids, don’t even think about it or you’ll just add to your own misery and theirs.
How do you know you still wouldn’t be suicidal after having a baby? Or regret having a child? I’d recommend seeing a therapist to help deal with the emotional loss.
I’m assuming that your pain is emotional and not physical, so at least you have your health and if one day you’re in the right position, you can work on having kids again. But there’s no point having children if you have suicidal tendencies-it’s not fair to bring kids into the world, then leave them by themselves with no mother or stable home.
No offense, day2day, but I don’t think males can quite comprehend this issue in the same way that it affects females. The OP said specifically that *she wanted to keep the child but was pressured into it*. The unborn infant is a helpless, living human being that wasn’t given the chance to make its own choices in life, which all people should have, instead of selfish types manipulating young mothers like this poster, and telling her what to do with her own offspring.
There IS such a thing as adoption available where the birth mother has the chance to help find a good family to look after the child. I have relatives who were adopted as a baby, and they have lived very happy, comfortable lives.
Every time heterosexuals have sex without protection it is a liability, and they should be prepared for the possibility of impregnation. Sex between heteros will never be purely recreational in a scientific sense unless one or both parties is totally infertile (whether that means they are naturally infertile, or the woman is past menopause, or they’ve undergone surgeries to assure that their reproductive organs no longer function correctly). Yeah, not even birth control is a 100% failproof method of avoiding pregnancy.
That’s why irresponsible (and cold-hearted) males shouldn’t just say, “Eh, fuck it, if I get her pregnant she can just have an abortion,” if it was primarily his fault for not being cautious. The guy won’t be the one dealing with the actual abortion procedure and it’s aftermath on the female mind and body. (That said, I’ve met men who felt guilt over their p.artner’s decision to have an abortion).
So let me just sum up your argument: Men can’t have an opinion on abortion (unless you’re a pro-lifer of course). Men are ‘irresponsible’ and ‘cold-hearted’, so let’s throw all reason out the window, and go with our ‘feelings’. Rather than abort, force the mother to go through with 9 months of pregnancy with all the risks to her life that it entails, including chance of death and then give your baby away to total strangers and hope for the best?
Nice fantasy world you live in where everything works out so magically. What is really irresponsible is to have children when you’re not ready to and then pawn them off for adoption, like a pair of hand-me-down shoes and leave them to the fate of total strangers.
Worldwide there are 150 million orphaned children (400k in the US-see my sources below), many who don’t find homes, who end up living in orphanages or on the streets. Who get kidnapped and forced into sex-slavery or child-labor/sweat shops and god knows what else. With 7 billion people on this planet 4 billion without adequate drinking water, don’t you think it’s better to have less people than more?
Which is more compassionate, to safely terminate a fetus’ life in the first trimester, when 99% of all abortions occur, in the zygote stage when they’re just a clump of cells who feels no pain, or to force a life of misery, pain and suffering onto a child they never asked for and they’ll be required to survive for at least 70 years if not more-assuming they can feed/clothe and house themselves?
Look at all the people on this suicide site alone-if we were all given the chance to have been aborted, I’m sure we would’ve gladly accepted it-rather than to be forced to live a life we hate and then try to find ways to end it without pain.
Did you know that 51% of men are pro-life while only 41% of women are in the US (Gallup poll). What business do these pro-lifers (esp. men) have to tell women they can’t abort-when it’s a decision that does not affect them? I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a male who fails to see the irony in telling another man that men can’t ‘comprehend’ this issue, don’t make me laugh.
As for the OP being pressured into an abortion by her family-did you ever consider that maybe they were right to do that? Maybe the family knew the OP couldn’t raise a child in her condition and that she was only acting on emotion rather than reason? Did you consider that often times with single-mothers it’s the family that is forced into taking care of the woman and child, so they did have a say in her decision?
Choosing emotion over reason almost always leads to bad decisions with terrible consequences, so your approach is myopic, infantile and beyond irresponsible if we believe the care of the child is paramount. Abortion is always a better decision than abandonment (or adoption as you’d call it).
As for people being careless with contraception, so fucking what? There are many reasons to abort, including rape and this is why abortion is important. If you are against abortion, then don’t have one, but don’t get in the way of those who do want one-their life is not your business.
Life is not perfect and you will never be able to impose your sense of order onto chaos. We have forgiveness because people make mistakes, we have hospitals because accidents happen, we have abortion because people have unwanted pregnancies. Any of this logic sinking in or are your ‘female emotions’ providing you with better answers than I’ve given here?
“around the world, there are an estimated 153 million orphans. Many are living in orphanages or on the streets and lack the care and attention required for healthy development. These children are at risk for disease, malnutrition, and death.” -Source: Childinfo (UNICEF, 2011)
“In the U.S. 397,122 children are living in the foster care system. 101,666 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 32% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.”-Source: 2012 AFCARS Report, No. 20
@day2day: I’m not going to argue with you because you’re allowed to have your own opinions, but my stance is that any woman when pregnant should absolutely not be forced into any decision that she doesn’t want.
If they have a boyfriend or family who is saying the same thing as you, they might feel pressured against their will.
(I didn’t say that all men are “cold-hearted and irresponsible,” only the ones who make no effort to avoid pregnancy, while assuming upfront that their p.artner can just “get rid of it.” Their p.artner on the other hand probably does not usually think this way.)
Again, since it’s the woman’s body, it is HER choice on what she wants to do with an unexpected pregnancy, not that of her male sexual p.artner’s or that of her family and friends. I do think that the child deserves a right to live if it’s healthy and if the mother is healthy and willing to give birth, but that’s just me.
I personally wouldn’t have wanted to be terminated by abortion, or by being left in a dumpster as a newborn, any more than I would want to be killed randomly by some fanatical terrorist today, but that’s because I want my choice to live or die to be respected, so that if I choose suicide I will know that I had a chance to live and explore, and informed myself of all other possible options beforehand.
Call me a hippie if you want, I don’t like the thought of any human beings killed unless it’s in a scenario of self defense.
P.S. Taking the Morning After pill, while also potentially damaging to a woman’s body, would be the most responsible thing to do if she doesn’t want to get pregnant. THAT would be the only stage when you could eliminate the pregnancy as a zygote, as after two weeks it becomes an embryo, and generally pregnancy tests take about two weeks afterwards to show results.
Anyway, my sympathy for the OP, this is a very tough time, and I’m sorry that this happened to you. I would suggest to try to move forwards as best as you can; talk to counselors, anything that helps you.
I should’ve clarified yesterday that there is a difference between an opinion like yours and an educated opinion like mine and the latter carries more weight-but I was in a rush.
On the one hand you claim a woman has an absolute choice over her pregnancy yet you refuse to consider abortion being one of the options available to her. The only termination option you’d allow is the morning after pill.
But that would imply they had unprotected sex, it makes no allowance for a leaky condom or if she changes her mind a few days or weeks later. The simple fact is that pro-lifers like yourself are basically a bunch of uneducated, uninformed, Nazis who were brainwashed by religion to think that ‘life is precious’ because of some teachings written down by sheep-herders from the Bronze Age and which come from a magical invisible man in the sky.
You’re trying to sound ‘high-minded’ but you’re simply a religious zealot ramming your views down other people’s throats. Pro-lifers neither understand the science behind child-birth nor do they actually care-you have an erroneous notion that a blastocyst is equal to a developed baby and confer rights on them that they do not have-that supecede the rights of the mother.
Theists have no business meddling in the reproductive affairs of other people-again if you personally don’t believe in abortion that’s fine-but don’t force your illogical views on others. The laws as they exist are reasonable-usually women are allowed 20 wks to abort, after which time the child is considered viable and abortion is ruled out except where it endangers the mother’s health.
Babies get left in dumpsters because pro-life imbeciles created laws against abortion-it is entirely the fault of people like yourselves injecting idiotic religious views where they don’t belong that is harming mothers and babies. If abortion was allowed and confined by scientific/medical reasoning these things would almost never happen.
Not to mention all those 153 million children would not be orphaned around the world. That to me is the greatest crime of all-to create a child and throw them away like garbage-that is where your female emotions and compassion lead to. A world of misery, pain, suffering for hundreds of millions of children today, thank you religious morons. Nothing personal I am attacking your views-not you personally.
Your agenda aside, I’m glad you believe a woman has a right to choose-so do I (even though you refrained from allowing abortion). However the woman should have her own income, home and means to raise her own child-her decision should not affect anyone else’s life. In the case it does-then they get a say.
If I had a daughter-I am not obligated to raise her child. Or if it was a gf and I wasn’t ready to settle-down I have requirement either. Raising a child as I mentioned earlier is extremely difficult-esp. if you’re a single mother. So yes a spouse or family member does get a say if the would-be mother’s decision affects their lives.
I noticed that you never once addressed any of the key points that I’ve raised-because you know I’m right and you can’t refute them. But your religious brainwashing keeps forcing you to repeat the same message over and over because your programming cannot change. That’s where religion becomes a force of retrogression and we don’t need it. So I’d suggest opening your mind to better answers than some bible-thumper brainwashed you with based on a fairytale mythology book written by primitives.
I don’t really have time to give a proper reply and I might or might not follow up tomorrow. But at least we agree everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I’ll leave it there for now, cheers.
I’ve been to a counsellor and am seeing a psychiatrist. Nothing has eased the pain. I’m 40 so don’t have time to have more children. I really do want to end my life now. Please please PM me if you can advise me where to get N or P. I’m afraid of hanging. Thank you in advance.
Good to know you’re seeing a therapist and I’m sorry for the pain/loss you’re experiencing and that they weren’t able to help you.
Actually 40 still isn’t a bad time to have kids-some people do it when they’re older like 50s. But I’m sure you can agree that the key is that your life should be in a good place first.
Sorry I don’t know how to get a hold of any substances-there is mention you can get it from China, it’s costly and risky. Perhaps see how you feel in a few months? Your mind could change, just a thought.
Thanks for your suggestion day2day. I really and truly wish to be dead. I’ve gone through 3 months of torture and would love to just go to sleep and never wake up. If I were a citizen of Belgium I could be legitimately euthanized once I got agreement that I’m a hopeless case from 3 doctors. I’m tired of my life and have given up thinking I’ll get over this. I’ve gotten worse as time has gone by. I wish someone would have mercy on me and advise me on what I need to exit painlessly and peacefully. I watch videos on people going like this and it gives me hope that I could be in their position. I know it sounds perverse but it’s the truth. I want to go wherever it is we go after death to be with the baby. If it’s to nothingness then I’ll share the nothingness with the baby.
I hear you Cantgetover-you might want to search google as we can’t discuss methods here. Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful-good luck in whatever you do.
I believe I AM fairly educated on pregnancy and childbirth as well as the consequences of abortion on a woman’s body, and no, I am definitely not a theist nor am I religious in any sense (I’m atheist).
You made a lot of assumptions about me because you think only religious people care about human lives. Ok.
There are many humans out there who were raised in slums or in low income situations and went on to be very successful (including Rafaela Silva from Rio, who won a gold medal in these Summer Olympics).
I’ve read many of your comments on SP over the years (under a few different monikers), and I’ve noticed you seem to have a prejudice against the poor and what you consider unattractive. You seem to have an elitist way of thinking where you believe only the privileged and wealthy have a right to live.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I got.
It’s that mindset that originally funded Planned Parenthood, as no one likes the idea of poor people reproducing. This has nothing to do with compassion for how difficult their lives may or may not be, but rather a sense of not wanting to have to assist them later on with any monetary benefits. And why is this? Does more money make someone more deserving of life? How is that fair?
Addendum…and that is why charities exist, because there are humans who have compassion for others in unfortunate situations and want to help them. This applies to the impoverished of any age, not simply children. Plus, we as humans often take risks; sometimes people take the risk of wanting to have a kid (through a planned pregnancy), and later find out they are unable to care for them properly.
Firstly I find it absolutely hilarious that you claim to be an Atheist yet use all the same talking points typically used by Theists/Christians to support your anti-abortion positions. But fine, I’ll take your word for it.
Atheists tend to be overwhelmingly liberal and pro-choice and your reasoning does not coincide with the way Atheists tend to think about abortion. I find your assumption that “only religious people care about human life” to be offensive.
It’s a loaded statement which implies that being ‘pro-life’ makes you ‘care about human life.’ So of course holding the opposing view means that you don’t. It’s just the typical sort of arrogance and slimy form of argumentation I’d expect from pro-lifers to use to smear their opponents.
It is precisely because I care about human life that I support abortion. Unlike you, I understand the cost and difficulty of raising a child, especially for a single-mother so I support her decision to terminate a pregnancy-you don’t.
Let’s make that clear before you try to pass yourself off as some compassionate atheist humanist. You are for the fascist position of forcing women to carry a baby to term against their will-then you blather on about ‘allowing the woman to choose’ (using pro-choice arguments to sneak in your anti-abortion agenda) give me a fucking break, your deceit is plain to see. If you had shown clear support for abortion, then we wouldn’t be adversaries in this convo and we would’ve ended this discussion a long time ago.
Note yet again you NEVER take on the key points I’ve laid out for keeping abortion legal. You dodge my points and continue to repeat your own appeals to emotion to support your anti-abortion position-why is precisely why I explained earlier that your opinion is one among many, there is no scholarship or any science behind your views-unlike mine.
Stating that your views are ‘educated’ doesn’t make it so-you have to demonstrate it like I have. Obviously you can’t refute my points because they’re rock-solid so you try to use other means to reiterate your discredited claims.
At least Theists have a theological basis for opposing abortion (albeit an idiotic one), why do you oppose abortion as an Atheist? Theists claim that an embryo is already a ‘person’ endowed with the same rights as the mothers. Atheists like myself argue it’s a clump of cells (and that’s a scientific fact, not in dispute by scientists) and the life of the mother takes precedence over the fetus. I’m very interested to know how you justify your position.
Re: Silva, that’s completely false-statistics have proven that if you’re born in poverty you will die in poverty, only 10% will actually make it out (90% obviously don’t). So you’re wrong about people getting out of slums, it’s only a lucky few who do-most will live and die in misery/starvation/pain and disease-thanks to people like you who oppose abortion. Once again you prove that you live in a fantasy world where things magically come up roses when in reality it’s the exact opposite.
So in your view it’s ok for broke/poor people to have kids they can’t afford to feed and yet you were claiming to hold the ‘responsible’ position? Explain how that is responsible? I’d love to hear you justify this.
If you’ve noticed me say that (about poor having kids)-then why did you leave out the part where I also say ‘don’t have kids unless you can financially afford them’ I believe I mentioned that twice in this thread alone. Yes I’m such an ‘elitist’ for telling people to raise kids responsibly, you got me! I’m such a terrible person for expecting poor people to be able to pay for the kids they have. Good lord.
Do I think ugly/obese/degenerate people should stop reproducing, yes I won’t deny that we should try to improve the gene pool. But rest assured, it’s an ideal-not something I’d form an army to impose on others. lol Perhaps you prefer a world full of ugly people only-so we differ there.
Should the rich only reproduce? No-we need people to run society-but given the choice to be born in wealth vs poverty which would you rather choose? I think you took my words out of context at that point.
I get the sense that you were probably born in privilege so you can have the luxury of these ‘ideals’ that you hold-after all it won’t be you that’ll be feeling the pangs of hunger from one meal a day and you call me an elitist, another good joke.
If you were born into poverty yourself then you could be a masochist, maybe you enjoy the struggle, misery and pain that poverty forces on people and would like millions more to experience what you have-taking a sadistic pleasure in their suffering.
I can’t speak for PP (planned parenthood) I live in Canada as you might know. But these are the two visions we have for society-I’d like to see us produce strong healthy kids who are born to parents that are mentally/financially stable and grow up to be productive adults; while you’d like to create generations of broke people living in misery and dependent on the state and charities for survival.
And who is paying for these benefits for the poor? We are-the hardworking taxpayers. Why should I pay for a person who makes poor choices, gets pregnant, can’t afford to raise the kids so I’m stuck with her bill for her rent and food/clothing for the child? Not to mention that despite your charities/benefits programs we still have millions of homeless people that never get help.
Politicians flap their gums and nothing is ever done to help the downtrodden-and yet you want to multiply this same crisis many fold. You realize what a failure your argument has been so far right? I’ll be happy to hand you the shovel to keep digging your hole even deeper.
Holy shit. I had to interject because this is hilarious. “Scientists argue that it’s a clump of cells.”
Literally all life forms are just “clumps of cells.” Including you.
You are propping yourself up as this champion of science, but even you ignore the fact that an embryo is a biological human. It has its own distinct human genetic code, and before you throw out the “so does a tumor” talking point, it also is its own distinct organism, unlike a tumor.
I literally do not give a shit if someone is prolife or prochoice. Abortion will never go away, so it’s a moot point to me. I also don’t give a shit if they abort or not. I don’t care. I just hate when people spew bullshit about it. Like you’re doing.
Be honest. Humans are humans from conception. That’s scientific fact. What you can say—the only argument you can make—is that some humans don’t or shouldn’t have human rights. That’s fine. If that’s what you believe, then own it. Seems like a slippery slope to me, but whatever. Or, you could say that only fully developed humans should have human rights, but again, that leaves so many already-born people out. Anyway, whatever you choose, I don’t care. Just don’t be deceptive.
I thought it was in poor taste to launch into a full on debate on this person’s post. But holy shit. Your arrogance coupled with your ignorance piss me off to no end, day2day.
And if you in any way think that it was a good thing that OP was pressured to have an abortion that she didn’t want, then you’re not prochoice. You’re just pro abortion.
What’s ‘hilarious’ about noting that a blastocyst is a clump of cells? It’s a factual and scientific observation. Note that this is in contrast to Theists who like to claim that a fertilized egg is a ‘person.’ So it makes sense to point out the obvious that it is a precursor to a person. A clump of cells is not a person-that was the point, which seemed to fly over your tiny mind.
In the most de-based, idiotic form I guess you could say we’re all a clump of cells, but that’s not accurate-we are composed of trillions of highly organized and differentiated cells which have very specific functions within our bodies-so only a dumbass would equate a fertilized egg/blastocyst with a fully formed adult and then claim they’re the same-no, they aren’t, not even close.
“An embryo is a biological human”? As opposed to what, an ‘anthropomorphic chicken’? What the fuck are you trying to say here? LOL Are human embryos biologically and genetically human? Well duh, thank you Captain Obvious. News flash everyone, “human embryos are human!” credit goes to toilet-fish for figuring out that brain-teaser.
So you’re saying that an embryo is distinct from it’s parents? You’re on a roll here with stating the obvious-let’s see what other gems of wisdom you dropped on us:
You don’t care whether people abort or not but you ‘hate the bullshit’ I’m supposedly spewing…and yet you completely failed to point out anything I said that was bullshit. You’re really making this a little too easy for me.
And here we see the pro-lifer expose his real agenda: “Be honest. Humans are humans from conception.”
But I thought you just finished saying you don’t care if people have abortions or not, yet you fly headlong into a tirade about human rights and then you have the nerve to call me ‘deceptive’ and fails to point out any deception. More hilarious crap from the anti-abortion space cadet.
So in short-a fertilized egg has the same rights as grown adult therefore abortion is murder, but you don’t give a shit about abortion-am I right?
In your trainwreck of a post amidst the self-contradiction, idiocy, obnoxiousness, that’s what I gathered about your post, so correct me if I’m wrong. I realize your next post will probably be just as much of a dog’s lunch as this was.
In response-no you’re completely wrong, a clump of cells is not a person or a human (even if they are human cells) and does not deserve any rights any more than a cumshot (which is human cells) deserves rights. You utterly failed in making a case for your position.
If you don’t care about abortion then why bother attacking the pro-choice position and me? Maybe because you do care but are pretending not to? Maybe because you don’t know what the fuck you’re saying but are just an angry moron and this is how you let your rage out? God only knows (whoever she is). But carry on bitching-I’m sure you will.
The fact that a zygote isn’t a “person” can’t possibly be scientific fact, given the fact that personhood is purely a social construct, and not a scientific concept. Try again.
I’m aware human adults aren’t the same as fetal, embryonic, or zygotic humans. That’s not the point I was making.
You’re entire argument with Neph was basically assumption after assumption. And here you go with it again, calling me a prolifer. What part of the scientific statement that human life begins at conception threatens you or your position, if your position is founded on science?
How does it make me prolife to recognize scientific fact? Where did I say that I believe abortion to be murder?
I am demanding consistency of you. My problem with you is that you claim the moral high ground. But you don’t have the moral high ground. Now, admittedly, neither do prolifers. But that’s the point. We will now direct your position.
So, you agree that unborn humans are, well, human. OH NO ACTUALLY, WAIT. I just scrolled down and holy shit, you just contradicted yourself and said that they WERENT HUMAN.
You just spat in the face of science. I hope your happy.
You can’t make this shit up, folks.
And holy shit, you also fail to recognize that a GAMETE ain’t the same thing as a ZYGOTE. I am so…I have no words to describe the beauty of this post.
If it’s human, and all humans have human rights, then they should have human rights. But obviously, you don’t think that they should have human rights. So that leaves you with two options:
Say that only some humans should have human rights, and open the door to all kinds of nasty shit, or
Say that all humans deserve human rights, but deny that zygotes, embryos, and fetuses are human, and completely destroy your claim to any sort of scientific basis for your opinion.
Oh yes, to follow up on what whiskered-fish says (it doesn’t look good on you to treat your opponents in a debate with such blatant disrespect, day2day), if a fetus is prematurely born at the point of six months development rather than nine (when it is fully formed), it is not any more developed or aware than it would have been inside the uterus, except that it is now breathing air outside and requires constant care from those around it, like any newborn child.
If it is illegal to kill a child at any stage of development because it has human rights, why don’t developed fetuses also have human rights? An unborn fetus feels pain and possesses consciousness and awareness.
Abortion activists like to ignore this part and only talk about abortion being performed in the very early stages of embryonic development, like you said yourself. However, the Morning After pill is the only surefire way to terminate the pregnancy without causing pain to the developing unborn human (then-zygote), as when pregnancy is discovered, the embryo is usually developed enough so that it has organs, blood cells, a heartbeat, and is forming into the shape of a baby, like I wrote in an earlier post.
If it looks like a baby, can move around and feels pain, has distinct DNA and genetics… well, that sounds like a person to me, just one who hasn’t finished its initial formation into a functional human being.
Unplanned pregnancies are tricky to navigate and can raise all sorts of questions and moral dilemmas, but I’m going to speculate that abortion was likely mostly invented for the sake of the impoverished; those that upper-classes look down upon as “undesirables.” That, and so that men could get away with having illicit affairs with women and not be embarrassed by illegitimate children, or be forced to pay for child care. Abortion is definitely a part of “population control.”
If one doesn’t mind reducing the population through deliberate pandemics or physically engineered so-called “natural disasters” or “accidents” or even sometimes “terrorism,” then yeah, I guess one would think abortion would be a much more lowkey way to decrease population density.
Thank you for your response day2day. I have googled many times but it seems to be full of scams.
I feel so guilty and regretful for what I did. I wish I had my baby back. I would dearly like to go to sleep and never wake up. I am not religious but I hope there is a heaven. I hope my baby and God forgives me for what I did. I hope my baby is happy and in God’s loving arms. I hope I die soon.
No problem cantgetover-well there are other means of achieving your goal aside from obtaining N, that’s why I was suggesting google.
Well I can’t begin to understand your emotional turmoil (as a man)-but I do know what it is to feel deep regret/guilt. We’ve all made decisions which seemed right at the time but that we later came to regret-sometimes bad enough that we wanted to end our lives.
However it is important to accept these errors and be able to forgive yourself and move on with life. Keep in mind when you’re pregnant that your body gets flooded with hormones and that can also be influencing the way you feel at this moment. It’s why I was suggesting to give it some time as they clear your system.
There may be sedatives or other drugs like prozac that your doctor could recommend to help you cope with your situation as well. Gentle suggestion-don’t let your guilt eat away at you-none of us are perfect, give yourself a break. Peace.
Again you make a lot of assumptions and take cheap shots. You argue like a politician (haha).
Let’s spin one of your phrases another way: “You are for the fascist position of forcing women to have abortions against their will,” because you’ll ASSUME that the woman’s p.artner and her family absolutely cannot help nor would want to support her – even if she did want to raise a child.
I said that the woman who’s impregnated should have the right to make the final choice, and that’s exactly what I meant. If she chooses abortion, it should only be because it was *her* ultimate decision.
Would I personally choose abortion, no, but I wouldn’t tell anyone else how to live their life.
It is generally the fourth week after conception (the first month) when a woman will start to notice she might be pregnant. At this stage the fertilized egg has developed into a small embryo that is growing organs and blood cells.
At the end of the second month, eight weeks, the embryo looks similar to a small plastic toy shaped like a baby, except that it’s alive with functioning organs. It has discernible yet not fully formed eyes, eyelids, and tiny legs and arms with fingers and toes. (I have personally seen miscarried embryos at this stage.) The embryo can also feel pain starting from this point as the “neural circuitry for the spinal reflex” is in place, according to neurobiology and anatomy scientists.
At the third month mark, 12 weeks after conception, the now-fetus has a heartbeat in addition to everything else, and now can be classified as a he or she as its sex organs have begun to clearly show. The fetus also starts to move around in the uterus.
This is the end of the first trimester.
A tumor or cyst is a clump of cells that never becomes anything more than that (tumors and cysts won’t develop sentience and become consciously aware), but anyone who wants to know what a developing unborn human is like, can simply Google it and read for themselves.
Anyway, I agree that people should not *choose* to have children if they know without a doubt that they cannot afford to provide for them… but if I knew of a low-income woman that became pregnant, I personally would direct her towards social services and anything that could help, rather than coldly dismiss her and tell her to just get an abortion (if that’s not what she wants).
You also judge people for “making poor choices,” yet we can’t exactly tell impoverished types to stop having casual sex or stop “falling in love” and entering relationships in which they may have unplanned pregnancies, can we? You mentioned yourself that sometimes the condom can break or the birth control may not be effective.
I’m also Canadian and I’m aware that social services alone do not provide enough to live on for those who cannot work, but abortion is completely legal here, and yet not everyone chooses that even if they don’t have a lot of money. Some people feel responsible about having ‘created’ life through their sexual actions and want to bring that child into the world, so they do so even if they don’t have a good job or stable home. I’m not going to judge people for wanting to have happiness – as for many women and even men, having children and/or a family is the definition of what they consider their calling in life.
There is so much work that governments should be doing to help those in poverty, so rather than complaining that more people had kids who can barely afford it, I think we should lobby for more job positions for those who don’t have the post-secondary education or qualifications for high income positions. Then those of us who are middle-class or higher will not have to pay more taxes (which I agree seems unfair, considering even middle-class can struggle with paying monthly bills and affording daily food and other necessities).
No need to cut/paste text on fetal development-I’m well aware of it. You spoke of tumors/cysts-I made no such mention, I was talking about a blastocyst-which is a fertilized egg.
Otherwise it seems your position is similar to my own-I’m glad to see that you support abortion. The rest is really just splitting hairs because it’s clear on the whole you and I do agree on most of the points that you’ve mentioned.
Unfortunately the govt can only do so much for creating jobs-that comes from the private sector with an economy that booms and busts. With the cost of living so high and few well paying jobs it becomes that much more difficult for people to survive.
Exactly, we in the middle-class are struggling already and Canadian taxes are very high. Frankly if we end corporate welfare we could wipe out many social problems. It only takes 1% of our GDP to eliminate poverty-it’s disgusting our politicians let people live and die on our streets when they could easily be taken care of. Just another reason why I think it’d be better if they were aborted. Some people made the wrong choice by having kids (who end up homeless).
34 comments
I am pro choice.
I think you had your reasons to go and have an abortion. I don’t know about your circumstances but clearly you didn’t have the circumstances to have a baby. And in my opinion that’s the key.
I wouldn’t feel guilty if I had no money/man-husband/good conditions to provide a baby because those things are elemental to provide a good life. Otherwise it would be a struggle for you and the baby too.
Thanks NiDDA for your reply. I did want the baby and my life isn’t worth living anymore. I’m looking for people to message me with sourcing substances.
Why did you get the abortion?
A combination of family members putting pressure on me and slumping into a depression. I want my baby back. I want to go to wherever it is we go after we die so I can be with the baby. I really want to find out where I can get certain substances that I’ve read about. Please pm me if you have knowledge of this.
I am so so that that happened to you. I can’t imagine the pain you’re in. The same thing happened to my mother once. So many people don’t understand how much it can crush a person. But please don’t end your own life to be with your baby. I’m sure your child doesn’t want that. I’m sure he or she wants you to live.
Like I said, my mother was also pressured into having an abortion, before she had me. After her abortion, her life didn’t end, even though the pain in her heart was so heavy. She went on to have four children, and she is happy to be alive and with us today. Please don’t kill whatever future you may have, Cantgetover. Living could be so very worth it.
*so so sorry
Agreed with Nidda’s post. It’s clear you had an abortion because it was the sensible and rational thing to do.
Raising a child is extremely difficult-I’ve seen it with my siblings. It’s hard enough with a spouse, but if you’re on your own, it’s even worse. You’ll barely get any sleep for the first couple of years, they require constant attention, you can never leave them alone for extended periods and then you have to make sure you can afford all the expenses.
Unless you are physically, mentally, financially and emotionally ready for kids, don’t even think about it or you’ll just add to your own misery and theirs.
How do you know you still wouldn’t be suicidal after having a baby? Or regret having a child? I’d recommend seeing a therapist to help deal with the emotional loss.
I’m assuming that your pain is emotional and not physical, so at least you have your health and if one day you’re in the right position, you can work on having kids again. But there’s no point having children if you have suicidal tendencies-it’s not fair to bring kids into the world, then leave them by themselves with no mother or stable home.
No offense, day2day, but I don’t think males can quite comprehend this issue in the same way that it affects females. The OP said specifically that *she wanted to keep the child but was pressured into it*. The unborn infant is a helpless, living human being that wasn’t given the chance to make its own choices in life, which all people should have, instead of selfish types manipulating young mothers like this poster, and telling her what to do with her own offspring.
There IS such a thing as adoption available where the birth mother has the chance to help find a good family to look after the child. I have relatives who were adopted as a baby, and they have lived very happy, comfortable lives.
Every time heterosexuals have sex without protection it is a liability, and they should be prepared for the possibility of impregnation. Sex between heteros will never be purely recreational in a scientific sense unless one or both parties is totally infertile (whether that means they are naturally infertile, or the woman is past menopause, or they’ve undergone surgeries to assure that their reproductive organs no longer function correctly). Yeah, not even birth control is a 100% failproof method of avoiding pregnancy.
That’s why irresponsible (and cold-hearted) males shouldn’t just say, “Eh, fuck it, if I get her pregnant she can just have an abortion,” if it was primarily his fault for not being cautious. The guy won’t be the one dealing with the actual abortion procedure and it’s aftermath on the female mind and body. (That said, I’ve met men who felt guilt over their p.artner’s decision to have an abortion).
@nepheliad
So let me just sum up your argument: Men can’t have an opinion on abortion (unless you’re a pro-lifer of course). Men are ‘irresponsible’ and ‘cold-hearted’, so let’s throw all reason out the window, and go with our ‘feelings’. Rather than abort, force the mother to go through with 9 months of pregnancy with all the risks to her life that it entails, including chance of death and then give your baby away to total strangers and hope for the best?
Nice fantasy world you live in where everything works out so magically. What is really irresponsible is to have children when you’re not ready to and then pawn them off for adoption, like a pair of hand-me-down shoes and leave them to the fate of total strangers.
Worldwide there are 150 million orphaned children (400k in the US-see my sources below), many who don’t find homes, who end up living in orphanages or on the streets. Who get kidnapped and forced into sex-slavery or child-labor/sweat shops and god knows what else. With 7 billion people on this planet 4 billion without adequate drinking water, don’t you think it’s better to have less people than more?
Which is more compassionate, to safely terminate a fetus’ life in the first trimester, when 99% of all abortions occur, in the zygote stage when they’re just a clump of cells who feels no pain, or to force a life of misery, pain and suffering onto a child they never asked for and they’ll be required to survive for at least 70 years if not more-assuming they can feed/clothe and house themselves?
Look at all the people on this suicide site alone-if we were all given the chance to have been aborted, I’m sure we would’ve gladly accepted it-rather than to be forced to live a life we hate and then try to find ways to end it without pain.
Did you know that 51% of men are pro-life while only 41% of women are in the US (Gallup poll). What business do these pro-lifers (esp. men) have to tell women they can’t abort-when it’s a decision that does not affect them? I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a male who fails to see the irony in telling another man that men can’t ‘comprehend’ this issue, don’t make me laugh.
As for the OP being pressured into an abortion by her family-did you ever consider that maybe they were right to do that? Maybe the family knew the OP couldn’t raise a child in her condition and that she was only acting on emotion rather than reason? Did you consider that often times with single-mothers it’s the family that is forced into taking care of the woman and child, so they did have a say in her decision?
Choosing emotion over reason almost always leads to bad decisions with terrible consequences, so your approach is myopic, infantile and beyond irresponsible if we believe the care of the child is paramount. Abortion is always a better decision than abandonment (or adoption as you’d call it).
As for people being careless with contraception, so fucking what? There are many reasons to abort, including rape and this is why abortion is important. If you are against abortion, then don’t have one, but don’t get in the way of those who do want one-their life is not your business.
Life is not perfect and you will never be able to impose your sense of order onto chaos. We have forgiveness because people make mistakes, we have hospitals because accidents happen, we have abortion because people have unwanted pregnancies. Any of this logic sinking in or are your ‘female emotions’ providing you with better answers than I’ve given here?
“around the world, there are an estimated 153 million orphans. Many are living in orphanages or on the streets and lack the care and attention required for healthy development. These children are at risk for disease, malnutrition, and death.” -Source: Childinfo (UNICEF, 2011)
“In the U.S. 397,122 children are living in the foster care system. 101,666 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 32% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.”-Source: 2012 AFCARS Report, No. 20
@day2day: I’m not going to argue with you because you’re allowed to have your own opinions, but my stance is that any woman when pregnant should absolutely not be forced into any decision that she doesn’t want.
If they have a boyfriend or family who is saying the same thing as you, they might feel pressured against their will.
(I didn’t say that all men are “cold-hearted and irresponsible,” only the ones who make no effort to avoid pregnancy, while assuming upfront that their p.artner can just “get rid of it.” Their p.artner on the other hand probably does not usually think this way.)
Again, since it’s the woman’s body, it is HER choice on what she wants to do with an unexpected pregnancy, not that of her male sexual p.artner’s or that of her family and friends. I do think that the child deserves a right to live if it’s healthy and if the mother is healthy and willing to give birth, but that’s just me.
I personally wouldn’t have wanted to be terminated by abortion, or by being left in a dumpster as a newborn, any more than I would want to be killed randomly by some fanatical terrorist today, but that’s because I want my choice to live or die to be respected, so that if I choose suicide I will know that I had a chance to live and explore, and informed myself of all other possible options beforehand.
Call me a hippie if you want, I don’t like the thought of any human beings killed unless it’s in a scenario of self defense.
P.S. Taking the Morning After pill, while also potentially damaging to a woman’s body, would be the most responsible thing to do if she doesn’t want to get pregnant. THAT would be the only stage when you could eliminate the pregnancy as a zygote, as after two weeks it becomes an embryo, and generally pregnancy tests take about two weeks afterwards to show results.
Anyway, my sympathy for the OP, this is a very tough time, and I’m sorry that this happened to you. I would suggest to try to move forwards as best as you can; talk to counselors, anything that helps you.
I should’ve clarified yesterday that there is a difference between an opinion like yours and an educated opinion like mine and the latter carries more weight-but I was in a rush.
On the one hand you claim a woman has an absolute choice over her pregnancy yet you refuse to consider abortion being one of the options available to her. The only termination option you’d allow is the morning after pill.
But that would imply they had unprotected sex, it makes no allowance for a leaky condom or if she changes her mind a few days or weeks later. The simple fact is that pro-lifers like yourself are basically a bunch of uneducated, uninformed, Nazis who were brainwashed by religion to think that ‘life is precious’ because of some teachings written down by sheep-herders from the Bronze Age and which come from a magical invisible man in the sky.
You’re trying to sound ‘high-minded’ but you’re simply a religious zealot ramming your views down other people’s throats. Pro-lifers neither understand the science behind child-birth nor do they actually care-you have an erroneous notion that a blastocyst is equal to a developed baby and confer rights on them that they do not have-that supecede the rights of the mother.
Theists have no business meddling in the reproductive affairs of other people-again if you personally don’t believe in abortion that’s fine-but don’t force your illogical views on others. The laws as they exist are reasonable-usually women are allowed 20 wks to abort, after which time the child is considered viable and abortion is ruled out except where it endangers the mother’s health.
Babies get left in dumpsters because pro-life imbeciles created laws against abortion-it is entirely the fault of people like yourselves injecting idiotic religious views where they don’t belong that is harming mothers and babies. If abortion was allowed and confined by scientific/medical reasoning these things would almost never happen.
Not to mention all those 153 million children would not be orphaned around the world. That to me is the greatest crime of all-to create a child and throw them away like garbage-that is where your female emotions and compassion lead to. A world of misery, pain, suffering for hundreds of millions of children today, thank you religious morons. Nothing personal I am attacking your views-not you personally.
Your agenda aside, I’m glad you believe a woman has a right to choose-so do I (even though you refrained from allowing abortion). However the woman should have her own income, home and means to raise her own child-her decision should not affect anyone else’s life. In the case it does-then they get a say.
If I had a daughter-I am not obligated to raise her child. Or if it was a gf and I wasn’t ready to settle-down I have requirement either. Raising a child as I mentioned earlier is extremely difficult-esp. if you’re a single mother. So yes a spouse or family member does get a say if the would-be mother’s decision affects their lives.
I noticed that you never once addressed any of the key points that I’ve raised-because you know I’m right and you can’t refute them. But your religious brainwashing keeps forcing you to repeat the same message over and over because your programming cannot change. That’s where religion becomes a force of retrogression and we don’t need it. So I’d suggest opening your mind to better answers than some bible-thumper brainwashed you with based on a fairytale mythology book written by primitives.
@nepheliad
I don’t really have time to give a proper reply and I might or might not follow up tomorrow. But at least we agree everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I’ll leave it there for now, cheers.
correction: Or if it was a gf and I wasn’t ready to settle-down, I don’t have that requirement either (to be forced to raise a child I didn’t want).
I’ve been to a counsellor and am seeing a psychiatrist. Nothing has eased the pain. I’m 40 so don’t have time to have more children. I really do want to end my life now. Please please PM me if you can advise me where to get N or P. I’m afraid of hanging. Thank you in advance.
@Cantgetover,
Good to know you’re seeing a therapist and I’m sorry for the pain/loss you’re experiencing and that they weren’t able to help you.
Actually 40 still isn’t a bad time to have kids-some people do it when they’re older like 50s. But I’m sure you can agree that the key is that your life should be in a good place first.
Sorry I don’t know how to get a hold of any substances-there is mention you can get it from China, it’s costly and risky. Perhaps see how you feel in a few months? Your mind could change, just a thought.
Thanks for your suggestion day2day. I really and truly wish to be dead. I’ve gone through 3 months of torture and would love to just go to sleep and never wake up. If I were a citizen of Belgium I could be legitimately euthanized once I got agreement that I’m a hopeless case from 3 doctors. I’m tired of my life and have given up thinking I’ll get over this. I’ve gotten worse as time has gone by. I wish someone would have mercy on me and advise me on what I need to exit painlessly and peacefully. I watch videos on people going like this and it gives me hope that I could be in their position. I know it sounds perverse but it’s the truth. I want to go wherever it is we go after death to be with the baby. If it’s to nothingness then I’ll share the nothingness with the baby.
I hear you Cantgetover-you might want to search google as we can’t discuss methods here. Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful-good luck in whatever you do.
I believe I AM fairly educated on pregnancy and childbirth as well as the consequences of abortion on a woman’s body, and no, I am definitely not a theist nor am I religious in any sense (I’m atheist).
You made a lot of assumptions about me because you think only religious people care about human lives. Ok.
There are many humans out there who were raised in slums or in low income situations and went on to be very successful (including Rafaela Silva from Rio, who won a gold medal in these Summer Olympics).
I’ve read many of your comments on SP over the years (under a few different monikers), and I’ve noticed you seem to have a prejudice against the poor and what you consider unattractive. You seem to have an elitist way of thinking where you believe only the privileged and wealthy have a right to live.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I got.
It’s that mindset that originally funded Planned Parenthood, as no one likes the idea of poor people reproducing. This has nothing to do with compassion for how difficult their lives may or may not be, but rather a sense of not wanting to have to assist them later on with any monetary benefits. And why is this? Does more money make someone more deserving of life? How is that fair?
^ @day2day
Addendum…and that is why charities exist, because there are humans who have compassion for others in unfortunate situations and want to help them. This applies to the impoverished of any age, not simply children. Plus, we as humans often take risks; sometimes people take the risk of wanting to have a kid (through a planned pregnancy), and later find out they are unable to care for them properly.
@nepheliad,
Firstly I find it absolutely hilarious that you claim to be an Atheist yet use all the same talking points typically used by Theists/Christians to support your anti-abortion positions. But fine, I’ll take your word for it.
Atheists tend to be overwhelmingly liberal and pro-choice and your reasoning does not coincide with the way Atheists tend to think about abortion. I find your assumption that “only religious people care about human life” to be offensive.
It’s a loaded statement which implies that being ‘pro-life’ makes you ‘care about human life.’ So of course holding the opposing view means that you don’t. It’s just the typical sort of arrogance and slimy form of argumentation I’d expect from pro-lifers to use to smear their opponents.
It is precisely because I care about human life that I support abortion. Unlike you, I understand the cost and difficulty of raising a child, especially for a single-mother so I support her decision to terminate a pregnancy-you don’t.
Let’s make that clear before you try to pass yourself off as some compassionate atheist humanist. You are for the fascist position of forcing women to carry a baby to term against their will-then you blather on about ‘allowing the woman to choose’ (using pro-choice arguments to sneak in your anti-abortion agenda) give me a fucking break, your deceit is plain to see. If you had shown clear support for abortion, then we wouldn’t be adversaries in this convo and we would’ve ended this discussion a long time ago.
Note yet again you NEVER take on the key points I’ve laid out for keeping abortion legal. You dodge my points and continue to repeat your own appeals to emotion to support your anti-abortion position-why is precisely why I explained earlier that your opinion is one among many, there is no scholarship or any science behind your views-unlike mine.
Stating that your views are ‘educated’ doesn’t make it so-you have to demonstrate it like I have. Obviously you can’t refute my points because they’re rock-solid so you try to use other means to reiterate your discredited claims.
At least Theists have a theological basis for opposing abortion (albeit an idiotic one), why do you oppose abortion as an Atheist? Theists claim that an embryo is already a ‘person’ endowed with the same rights as the mothers. Atheists like myself argue it’s a clump of cells (and that’s a scientific fact, not in dispute by scientists) and the life of the mother takes precedence over the fetus. I’m very interested to know how you justify your position.
Re: Silva, that’s completely false-statistics have proven that if you’re born in poverty you will die in poverty, only 10% will actually make it out (90% obviously don’t). So you’re wrong about people getting out of slums, it’s only a lucky few who do-most will live and die in misery/starvation/pain and disease-thanks to people like you who oppose abortion. Once again you prove that you live in a fantasy world where things magically come up roses when in reality it’s the exact opposite.
So in your view it’s ok for broke/poor people to have kids they can’t afford to feed and yet you were claiming to hold the ‘responsible’ position? Explain how that is responsible? I’d love to hear you justify this.
If you’ve noticed me say that (about poor having kids)-then why did you leave out the part where I also say ‘don’t have kids unless you can financially afford them’ I believe I mentioned that twice in this thread alone. Yes I’m such an ‘elitist’ for telling people to raise kids responsibly, you got me! I’m such a terrible person for expecting poor people to be able to pay for the kids they have. Good lord.
Do I think ugly/obese/degenerate people should stop reproducing, yes I won’t deny that we should try to improve the gene pool. But rest assured, it’s an ideal-not something I’d form an army to impose on others. lol Perhaps you prefer a world full of ugly people only-so we differ there.
Should the rich only reproduce? No-we need people to run society-but given the choice to be born in wealth vs poverty which would you rather choose? I think you took my words out of context at that point.
I get the sense that you were probably born in privilege so you can have the luxury of these ‘ideals’ that you hold-after all it won’t be you that’ll be feeling the pangs of hunger from one meal a day and you call me an elitist, another good joke.
If you were born into poverty yourself then you could be a masochist, maybe you enjoy the struggle, misery and pain that poverty forces on people and would like millions more to experience what you have-taking a sadistic pleasure in their suffering.
I can’t speak for PP (planned parenthood) I live in Canada as you might know. But these are the two visions we have for society-I’d like to see us produce strong healthy kids who are born to parents that are mentally/financially stable and grow up to be productive adults; while you’d like to create generations of broke people living in misery and dependent on the state and charities for survival.
And who is paying for these benefits for the poor? We are-the hardworking taxpayers. Why should I pay for a person who makes poor choices, gets pregnant, can’t afford to raise the kids so I’m stuck with her bill for her rent and food/clothing for the child? Not to mention that despite your charities/benefits programs we still have millions of homeless people that never get help.
Politicians flap their gums and nothing is ever done to help the downtrodden-and yet you want to multiply this same crisis many fold. You realize what a failure your argument has been so far right? I’ll be happy to hand you the shovel to keep digging your hole even deeper.
Holy shit. I had to interject because this is hilarious. “Scientists argue that it’s a clump of cells.”
Literally all life forms are just “clumps of cells.” Including you.
You are propping yourself up as this champion of science, but even you ignore the fact that an embryo is a biological human. It has its own distinct human genetic code, and before you throw out the “so does a tumor” talking point, it also is its own distinct organism, unlike a tumor.
I literally do not give a shit if someone is prolife or prochoice. Abortion will never go away, so it’s a moot point to me. I also don’t give a shit if they abort or not. I don’t care. I just hate when people spew bullshit about it. Like you’re doing.
Be honest. Humans are humans from conception. That’s scientific fact. What you can say—the only argument you can make—is that some humans don’t or shouldn’t have human rights. That’s fine. If that’s what you believe, then own it. Seems like a slippery slope to me, but whatever. Or, you could say that only fully developed humans should have human rights, but again, that leaves so many already-born people out. Anyway, whatever you choose, I don’t care. Just don’t be deceptive.
I thought it was in poor taste to launch into a full on debate on this person’s post. But holy shit. Your arrogance coupled with your ignorance piss me off to no end, day2day.
And if you in any way think that it was a good thing that OP was pressured to have an abortion that she didn’t want, then you’re not prochoice. You’re just pro abortion.
@ toilet-fish,
What’s ‘hilarious’ about noting that a blastocyst is a clump of cells? It’s a factual and scientific observation. Note that this is in contrast to Theists who like to claim that a fertilized egg is a ‘person.’ So it makes sense to point out the obvious that it is a precursor to a person. A clump of cells is not a person-that was the point, which seemed to fly over your tiny mind.
In the most de-based, idiotic form I guess you could say we’re all a clump of cells, but that’s not accurate-we are composed of trillions of highly organized and differentiated cells which have very specific functions within our bodies-so only a dumbass would equate a fertilized egg/blastocyst with a fully formed adult and then claim they’re the same-no, they aren’t, not even close.
“An embryo is a biological human”? As opposed to what, an ‘anthropomorphic chicken’? What the fuck are you trying to say here? LOL Are human embryos biologically and genetically human? Well duh, thank you Captain Obvious. News flash everyone, “human embryos are human!” credit goes to toilet-fish for figuring out that brain-teaser.
So you’re saying that an embryo is distinct from it’s parents? You’re on a roll here with stating the obvious-let’s see what other gems of wisdom you dropped on us:
You don’t care whether people abort or not but you ‘hate the bullshit’ I’m supposedly spewing…and yet you completely failed to point out anything I said that was bullshit. You’re really making this a little too easy for me.
And here we see the pro-lifer expose his real agenda: “Be honest. Humans are humans from conception.”
But I thought you just finished saying you don’t care if people have abortions or not, yet you fly headlong into a tirade about human rights and then you have the nerve to call me ‘deceptive’ and fails to point out any deception. More hilarious crap from the anti-abortion space cadet.
So in short-a fertilized egg has the same rights as grown adult therefore abortion is murder, but you don’t give a shit about abortion-am I right?
In your trainwreck of a post amidst the self-contradiction, idiocy, obnoxiousness, that’s what I gathered about your post, so correct me if I’m wrong. I realize your next post will probably be just as much of a dog’s lunch as this was.
In response-no you’re completely wrong, a clump of cells is not a person or a human (even if they are human cells) and does not deserve any rights any more than a cumshot (which is human cells) deserves rights. You utterly failed in making a case for your position.
If you don’t care about abortion then why bother attacking the pro-choice position and me? Maybe because you do care but are pretending not to? Maybe because you don’t know what the fuck you’re saying but are just an angry moron and this is how you let your rage out? God only knows (whoever she is). But carry on bitching-I’m sure you will.
The fact that a zygote isn’t a “person” can’t possibly be scientific fact, given the fact that personhood is purely a social construct, and not a scientific concept. Try again.
I’m aware human adults aren’t the same as fetal, embryonic, or zygotic humans. That’s not the point I was making.
You’re entire argument with Neph was basically assumption after assumption. And here you go with it again, calling me a prolifer. What part of the scientific statement that human life begins at conception threatens you or your position, if your position is founded on science?
How does it make me prolife to recognize scientific fact? Where did I say that I believe abortion to be murder?
I am demanding consistency of you. My problem with you is that you claim the moral high ground. But you don’t have the moral high ground. Now, admittedly, neither do prolifers. But that’s the point. We will now direct your position.
So, you agree that unborn humans are, well, human. OH NO ACTUALLY, WAIT. I just scrolled down and holy shit, you just contradicted yourself and said that they WERENT HUMAN.
You just spat in the face of science. I hope your happy.
You can’t make this shit up, folks.
And holy shit, you also fail to recognize that a GAMETE ain’t the same thing as a ZYGOTE. I am so…I have no words to describe the beauty of this post.
*disect your position.
If it’s human, and all humans have human rights, then they should have human rights. But obviously, you don’t think that they should have human rights. So that leaves you with two options:
Say that only some humans should have human rights, and open the door to all kinds of nasty shit, or
Say that all humans deserve human rights, but deny that zygotes, embryos, and fetuses are human, and completely destroy your claim to any sort of scientific basis for your opinion.
Your move.
@toilet-fish,
LMAO dude, entertaining post-really I was chuckling here after reading it. There is much confusion I will have to untangle. I’ll follow up later on.
You do that.
Oh yes, to follow up on what whiskered-fish says (it doesn’t look good on you to treat your opponents in a debate with such blatant disrespect, day2day), if a fetus is prematurely born at the point of six months development rather than nine (when it is fully formed), it is not any more developed or aware than it would have been inside the uterus, except that it is now breathing air outside and requires constant care from those around it, like any newborn child.
If it is illegal to kill a child at any stage of development because it has human rights, why don’t developed fetuses also have human rights? An unborn fetus feels pain and possesses consciousness and awareness.
Abortion activists like to ignore this part and only talk about abortion being performed in the very early stages of embryonic development, like you said yourself. However, the Morning After pill is the only surefire way to terminate the pregnancy without causing pain to the developing unborn human (then-zygote), as when pregnancy is discovered, the embryo is usually developed enough so that it has organs, blood cells, a heartbeat, and is forming into the shape of a baby, like I wrote in an earlier post.
If it looks like a baby, can move around and feels pain, has distinct DNA and genetics… well, that sounds like a person to me, just one who hasn’t finished its initial formation into a functional human being.
Unplanned pregnancies are tricky to navigate and can raise all sorts of questions and moral dilemmas, but I’m going to speculate that abortion was likely mostly invented for the sake of the impoverished; those that upper-classes look down upon as “undesirables.” That, and so that men could get away with having illicit affairs with women and not be embarrassed by illegitimate children, or be forced to pay for child care. Abortion is definitely a part of “population control.”
If one doesn’t mind reducing the population through deliberate pandemics or physically engineered so-called “natural disasters” or “accidents” or even sometimes “terrorism,” then yeah, I guess one would think abortion would be a much more lowkey way to decrease population density.
Thank you for your response day2day. I have googled many times but it seems to be full of scams.
I feel so guilty and regretful for what I did. I wish I had my baby back. I would dearly like to go to sleep and never wake up. I am not religious but I hope there is a heaven. I hope my baby and God forgives me for what I did. I hope my baby is happy and in God’s loving arms. I hope I die soon.
No problem cantgetover-well there are other means of achieving your goal aside from obtaining N, that’s why I was suggesting google.
Well I can’t begin to understand your emotional turmoil (as a man)-but I do know what it is to feel deep regret/guilt. We’ve all made decisions which seemed right at the time but that we later came to regret-sometimes bad enough that we wanted to end our lives.
However it is important to accept these errors and be able to forgive yourself and move on with life. Keep in mind when you’re pregnant that your body gets flooded with hormones and that can also be influencing the way you feel at this moment. It’s why I was suggesting to give it some time as they clear your system.
There may be sedatives or other drugs like prozac that your doctor could recommend to help you cope with your situation as well. Gentle suggestion-don’t let your guilt eat away at you-none of us are perfect, give yourself a break. Peace.
@day2day:
Again you make a lot of assumptions and take cheap shots. You argue like a politician (haha).
Let’s spin one of your phrases another way: “You are for the fascist position of forcing women to have abortions against their will,” because you’ll ASSUME that the woman’s p.artner and her family absolutely cannot help nor would want to support her – even if she did want to raise a child.
I said that the woman who’s impregnated should have the right to make the final choice, and that’s exactly what I meant. If she chooses abortion, it should only be because it was *her* ultimate decision.
Would I personally choose abortion, no, but I wouldn’t tell anyone else how to live their life.
It is generally the fourth week after conception (the first month) when a woman will start to notice she might be pregnant. At this stage the fertilized egg has developed into a small embryo that is growing organs and blood cells.
At the end of the second month, eight weeks, the embryo looks similar to a small plastic toy shaped like a baby, except that it’s alive with functioning organs. It has discernible yet not fully formed eyes, eyelids, and tiny legs and arms with fingers and toes. (I have personally seen miscarried embryos at this stage.) The embryo can also feel pain starting from this point as the “neural circuitry for the spinal reflex” is in place, according to neurobiology and anatomy scientists.
At the third month mark, 12 weeks after conception, the now-fetus has a heartbeat in addition to everything else, and now can be classified as a he or she as its sex organs have begun to clearly show. The fetus also starts to move around in the uterus.
This is the end of the first trimester.
A tumor or cyst is a clump of cells that never becomes anything more than that (tumors and cysts won’t develop sentience and become consciously aware), but anyone who wants to know what a developing unborn human is like, can simply Google it and read for themselves.
Anyway, I agree that people should not *choose* to have children if they know without a doubt that they cannot afford to provide for them… but if I knew of a low-income woman that became pregnant, I personally would direct her towards social services and anything that could help, rather than coldly dismiss her and tell her to just get an abortion (if that’s not what she wants).
You also judge people for “making poor choices,” yet we can’t exactly tell impoverished types to stop having casual sex or stop “falling in love” and entering relationships in which they may have unplanned pregnancies, can we? You mentioned yourself that sometimes the condom can break or the birth control may not be effective.
I’m also Canadian and I’m aware that social services alone do not provide enough to live on for those who cannot work, but abortion is completely legal here, and yet not everyone chooses that even if they don’t have a lot of money. Some people feel responsible about having ‘created’ life through their sexual actions and want to bring that child into the world, so they do so even if they don’t have a good job or stable home. I’m not going to judge people for wanting to have happiness – as for many women and even men, having children and/or a family is the definition of what they consider their calling in life.
There is so much work that governments should be doing to help those in poverty, so rather than complaining that more people had kids who can barely afford it, I think we should lobby for more job positions for those who don’t have the post-secondary education or qualifications for high income positions. Then those of us who are middle-class or higher will not have to pay more taxes (which I agree seems unfair, considering even middle-class can struggle with paying monthly bills and affording daily food and other necessities).
@nepheliad
No need to cut/paste text on fetal development-I’m well aware of it. You spoke of tumors/cysts-I made no such mention, I was talking about a blastocyst-which is a fertilized egg.
Otherwise it seems your position is similar to my own-I’m glad to see that you support abortion. The rest is really just splitting hairs because it’s clear on the whole you and I do agree on most of the points that you’ve mentioned.
Unfortunately the govt can only do so much for creating jobs-that comes from the private sector with an economy that booms and busts. With the cost of living so high and few well paying jobs it becomes that much more difficult for people to survive.
Exactly, we in the middle-class are struggling already and Canadian taxes are very high. Frankly if we end corporate welfare we could wipe out many social problems. It only takes 1% of our GDP to eliminate poverty-it’s disgusting our politicians let people live and die on our streets when they could easily be taken care of. Just another reason why I think it’d be better if they were aborted. Some people made the wrong choice by having kids (who end up homeless).