You see how this bird puts his head in the sand as if that does anything to alter the world around him? This is pretty much how I feel when I stay locked in my room and refuse to go outside…it doesn’t change the world…pretending it doesn’t exist means nothing….it goes on….whether you bury your head in the sand or not.
64 comments
Ugh, this post was Pointless!
Okay
What I can’t see or hear don’t bother me none.
Philosophy.
but it still affects you…I just thought this was interesting because its basically the same tactic I use to escape the world around me…but I can’t
Nobody gets my sense of humour. I give up.
I like your sense of humour. 😉 @DN95
I feel bad for the model in this photo. Does anyone else feel bad for the model? It must have taken a long time to wash out all the sand.
Glad to see youre still alive. Like it or not, youre either moving forward or back. When you hesitate you get left behind. hop into the stream and let it take you away from the farm or dive into the mud with the rest of the pigs. Do whats good and right, keep your feet on the ground and head anywhere above it. Boredom is a void that draws in fear and complacency
Can completely relate to this not so pointless post …
Oh no, I’m starting to have those depressing, recurrent, philosophical thoughts again.
I don’t believe that we have any control over our existence. I think that our feelings are not ours either. They aren’t. They’re merely parts of us, but even then, we don’t own ourselves, for we are products of the uninverse, which I sometimes call God. Sometimes I think about killing myself because I don’t want to be this way anymore. I hate being a slave to the universe. If a rock doesn’t care about the universe, why should I have to? I just want to be a rock. I hate seeing people that I care about suffer and make mistakes. Sure, there are some parts of life that I enjoy, but I don’t need to enjoy them, for rocks don’t. Fucking rocks.
@DN95 Wow! That, is priceless. It’s kind of true and depressing but somehow funny. Thanks for making me smile 🙂
You’re welcome. I’m glad that I helped someone feel better, even if for just a second. 🙂
This picture is a symbol of the greatest thing any religion can teach: when things suck, pretend otherwise.
To me, that picture looks exactly the same as a person praying.
The only real difference is that the person should damn well know better. For the ostrich, the head is in the sand; for the person, the sand is in the head.
The irony, i guess, is that sometimes, burying one’s head in the sand, leads to having no better option for solace or comfort; pretend long enough, and it becomes necessary.
@Clevername Haha, isn’t that how both of us have been surviving for the past few years? Escapism and half-hearted self-illusion? I’m just guessing. I know that’s how I’ve gotten this far. Actually, it’s how I’ve gotten through my entire life. I always thought to the future. It gave me a goal to work towards. (The past few years I’ve found myself directionless, which is worse.) Gawd. Maybe that’s all life is for anyone. Pretending that day to day drudgery and all the bits in between means something… when all we’re doing is keeping ourselves alive until we die, like any animal.
If you assume i’ve been surviving, then i suppose it’s understandable that it might look that way, from outside…
But i really haven’t been surviving. I stopped surviving years ago. I just couldn’t do it anymore. I’m only alive because a few others fear the grief, anguish, and guilt they would encounter, had they turned their back on me and allowed me to die.
The few who provide my survival, do so only for their own benefit, while claiming it’s for mine, while proving they have no intention of changing any of the few things i’d need them to change, in order to actually save my life. They want me to be grateful for the gift of their fish, rather than teaching me to catch my own. And i don’t know anyone who will teach me how to build a fishing boat. And i have no idea how i’d get the required tools and materials, even if someone did teach me how to build boats.
However, i certainly have attempted the ostrich method, numerous times. It’s just that this method never worked for me. I can’t do the whole “pretend everything is/will-be okay” for any length of time.
Well, I guess what I do is try not to think of it. I can’t “pretend everything is okay,” because it isn’t, but I can distract myself with other thoughts and activities. At times I can’t even do that, and then all I can do is watch time pass me by, while I am unable to do anything to help myself. Too depressing. Fuck. Anyway, I hear you man. Every day it’s like, wake up, shower, eat whatever food is there, in my case work or if I’m not feeling well, come on here, watch shows, listen to music, read, et cetera, and then go to sleep. Alone, as always. I lie in bed and am so accustomed to the reality of always being alone, it seems like that will never change. Sure, sometimes people might be attracted to me, but I doubt they’d handle me for long and most people bore me. That’s what happens when you’re a brilliant individual. Heheh. 😉 So yeah, I won’t be surprised if I spend all my days and nights alone for the next ten to twenty years, if I live that long. I kind of do want companionship, but it just seems like I might not be able to have that. Perhaps the Universe is conspiring against me. Whatever. Maybe I’ll just order a girl in from Russia sometime.
@persephone:
I usually skip the other stuff; coffee, smoke, straight to SP.
I “could,” hypothetically, do things to help myself; the problem is that i am incompatible with the options available to me. I cannot sustain those options; i even have great difficulty in even initiating pursuit of those options, let alone actually being accepted (hired) into any of them. Most people accuse me of just not wanting to do it, as if that is the only problem; the real problem is that even if i psyche myself up and try, i am not what any employer is looking for, AND, i already know i won’t be able to sustain any low-level employment, for various reasons. I have attempted to explain those reasons to people, so many times, for so long… and it’s like they just don’t hear me. It’s like they only here “wah, i don’t wanna!!!” When in fact, i am more than willing to do things i’d rather not do, if only i were able, if only anyone would hire me, if only there were any employment available that didn’t involve a plethora of completely arbitrary and discriminatory “rules.” In my area, it’s very likely that i could be fired from most jobs just for being atheist, which i think is technically illegal, but would happen anyway, and would be excused as something else, like “insubordination” or “dress code” or… whatever. Shit is so corrupt around here… and i can’t help but consider that’s not only “around here.” It’s probably like that everywhere.
As for companionship… i strongly doubt anyone would handle me… though some probably could, if they had a reason… like if i could offer financial security and a reliably high degree and frequency of sexual satisfaction, while also not doing anything any typical woman’s friends would convince her is “weird” or “wrong” or “bad.” From my experiences, what a girl’s friends think is often even more important than her own thoughts and feelings. Gotta maintain that image…
But OTOH, i can’t completely disagree with such ways, because “having a nice life” does seem to rank a bit higher than “being a good person.”
My cynicism leads me toward the inclination to believe that “most people” would choose a nice life, over being a good person… and those who seem to evangelize “being a good person,” often do so primarily because the “have a nice life” option is not available to them; so they act like their own choice is “better,” even though they’re only acting like it’s “better” because what they would prefer to choose, is unavailable. They would change their tune, given different options.
Of course, exceptions apply… but, you know… “most people.”
@clevername I’m from Sweden so I don’t know that much about the actual life in the US but, the things you are describing about your area is fucked up and would be seen as such by the majority of the people here. What I’m trying to get at is that, it’s not like that bad everywhere. If you want moving away to be an option it can be an option. There are places where being a good person and having a nice life can go hand in hand, and that is without some god threatening them with hell. You seem like an intelligent person and it’s possible I’m not making sense but I do believe you can succeed if you really want to. May I ask you, what do you want to do with your life?
@limbo:
I think if the rest of the world could see the real U.S., they’d be mortified, and probably feel like fools for believing the fanciful images portrayed by media. Then again, i realize pro-U.S. sentiment has globally decreased in recent years. Maybe the truth wouldn’t surprise anyone all that much.
Suffice to say: it’s not what it’s said to be.
The problems are complex and numerous, and most people seem unwilling to acknowledge reality, often preferring the “head in the sand” (or sand in the head) approach.
I would guess there are isolated pockets where life can be good… but so many of the problems come down to money and opportunity, both of which are portrayed as plentiful, while the reality is quite contrary.
From my research, i’ve discovered that there is no place, of which i am aware, where i could go and have “the life i want.” It might seem like i just have excessive expectations or fantastical desires, but i really don’t. Even my most realistically minimized ideals seem impossible. I basically have to lie to myself (which is something i despise, in both myself, and others), just to think there is any slight hope at all. But that doesn’t even work. I spend most of my time without hope of any kind, essentially just waiting for the bottom to fall out; waiting to die.
Moving isn’t really an option. Moving costs an outrageous amount of money that i have no way of making.
I could compose an elaborate description of what my ideal life might be… but the problem is that observable reality shows that nothing i want, nothing that would be worthwhile, is actually available to me. What do i want to do with my life? Who knows. Most of the good years are already gone, lost to tedium and futility. My life has always sucked, despite my best efforts. I don’t think “what i want to do with my life” is even relevant anymore, because it is quite clear that everything i could want, is actually out of reach. Without being allowed to select from any of what i actually want… none of what i want to do with my life is even available, and i feel i’ve already suffered too much damage, too many setbacks, and it is ultimately already too late to do anything to salvage what remains.
To simplify as much as possible:
I guess all i really want to do with my life, is live it. I just want to be able to live. I just want to be able to create wealth, but without causing myself or anyone else more damage than it’s worth. That doesn’t seem to be an option. It seems like anything i could gain, would cost far too much, and would ultimately destroy the very goals efforts would be meant to achieve. Every one of my options will destroy me faster than it will help me. If attempting to save myself causes self-destruction, then there’s no point. I have seen this scenario play out repeatedly. I never have the opportunity to change what needs changing.
@clevername People know about it alright but shit is worse in other places. The thing with the hate for the US is the hypocrisy of the middle/higher class people. Being “good christians” and voting conservative which causes more suffering and then they whine about school massacres….. The difference between the poor countries in africa and the US is that the US have the means to make it better but chooses not to, but that’s just my opinion….
I can still however relate to a lot of what you’re saying. I’m guessing you’re a bit older than me though. I recently started studying some “prestigious” 5 year education at university in computer science. Guess that’s a win being born in the right country again. Getting paid to study instead of the reverse. You can always try something like that, programming or webdesign. You don’t need an education for that and you can still make a lot of money. Free guides will get you pretty far. I believe it’s more interesting than waiting to die. Gonna try to sleep now, good night 🙂
“the US have the means to make it better but chooses not to…”
But that’s just it, “the US” is not some unified entity all working in cooperation toward a common goal. The irony is that the “united states” are anything But “united.” The federal gov’t and the “banksters” have all the power; they decide whatever they want, regardless of the rest of us… and then they make it look like “we’re all in this together!” as if to portray some sort of image to the rest of the world.
You do realize that “high/middle class” are NOT the majority, right? And yet, these are the people we show to the rest of the world: our lucky, our privileged, our sheltered…
And sure, the bottom line is worse elsewhere, but that’s not the point. The point is that for all the fantastical BS the US tries to portray to the rest of the world, there is a HUGE gap between that and what is reality for the vast majority of people here.
We are a shattered nation full of ignorance and despair. The rest of the world seems to think we have it so good over here, but most of us really don’t. The lucky few, however, really do.
Anyway…
I am actually pretty interested in the tech realm, and i’ve attempted to embark upon a completely independent learning journey, in relation to web design and programming… but while i realize most of the information i need, does actually exist for free “somewhere on the internet,” one of my major problems is sorting through all the “noise,” to find what i need to find, when i need to find it.
Sure, if you’re waving digital cash at your monitor, itching to buy something, it’s easy to find what you’re looking for. That’s that wonderful consumerism at work. There’s huge money in dropping the product people want right in their faces, right at the moment they’re ready to buy it.
But go looking for something more? Something you can use to actually become a better and more capable person? Nope! that stuff is buried under Petabytes of garbage, and you have to read countless paragraphs of below-amateurish writing about ludicrous ignorance-based opinions, just to be able to locate the morsels of useful knowledge. It’s all so goddamn prohibitively tedious. I feel like i spend most of my time skimming over tired BS, trying not to miss the good parts in the process, than i spend actually learning things.
I get totally overwhelmed by this process, because it “steals” about 90% of my energy, then i get discouraged because it feels like i’ll never get anywhere this way, and then it feels like just another style of futility… and i can’t stand feeling like i’m persisting in futility. That’s what i’m trying to avoid by attempting to better myself. But then it overloads me and i lose my motivation and ability to concentrate, and then i find myself here again, wasting more energy… because honestly, what else is there? (that’s a rhetorical question…)
Maybe younger people “don’t need an education” for highly technical stuff like programming and web design… but i feel like i need some sort of direction, some sort of structured learning, some sort of process or methodology… a mentor (who actually knows their field) would be ideal. College never was and never will be an option for me. It costs too much time and money just to be able to prepare to begin college. I never had that opportunity (in “the land of opportunity!”), and now it’s too late. I need a focused, accelerated solution. I need a crash course, and not just to drop an encyclopedia of disjointed information into my brain, which i could never hope to retain… but with a method that can be applied to everything, so that it can be figured out along the way, as needed.
“Mutatis Mutandis” applied to higher learning. “Change only what needs changing.” And what needs changing is that i need a way to access the information i need, without it costing so much time and energy, so that i can spend that time and energy on actually learning the stuff, instead of it all being wasted on attempting to find it. My time and energy is misspent, because i cannot access a better way. Meanwhile, my life is passing, unlived, and there is little, if anything i can do about it. I get to the point where i don’t see much difference between trying as hard as i can, and just doing absolutely nothing, and attempting to attain a semblance of peace, while awaiting my inevitable death. But it’s nearly impossible to be peaceful while filled with the desire to change what i lack the access to the resources to change, or with the desire to acquire those resources, or the access to them. It feels like it will take a million steps to move an inch. What is the point of moving an inch? It’s almost the same as being exactly where i am. I might as well just sit still and wait for more time to pass… even knowing i will eventually explode with relentless intention toward the changes i’ve never been able to manifest… only to once again be so easily flung past my breaking point, into helpless hopelessness, needing yet another break again.
@clevername
Ye, I know I’m not being politically correct or anything and I’m having a hard time expressing myself correctly. The point I wanted to get to is the same that you stated though.
“The land of opportunity” it’s pretty interesting, aren’t we in the north supposed to be like communists or something, still we have more freedom than the people in the land of the free.
I guess it’s all about how you choose to see it, the US is the land of opportunity if you’re a cold hearted psychopath with lust for power. It’s something I guess…..
You have an interest for it that’s promising, I kind of get what you’re saying, there is a lot of bullshit guides out there that just makes you go nowhere. Unfortunately I’m not skilled enough to do anything yet but it feels like I’m getting somewhere with school and all.
I believe I recognize the feelings you’re describing.
But this is fixable, although I don’t know you, you seem to show potential. Can you describe a bit more in detail what you have been aiming to do? A web site? An artsy game? Programs, anything really. What do you wish to accomplish?
I don’t really subscribe to the notion of “political correctness” as it is presented and commonly misunderstood to represent. OTOH, i think “political correctness” should be understood literally: being correct about one’s interpretation and understanding of politics. For example: i like “conservative government,” but “civil liberties.” That means i am both a con and a lib, but people misunderstand what the terms actually represent. The gov’t should stay as small and efficient as possible, enabling what we need, but getting out of our way, and letting us do whatever we want, as long as we’re not hurting each other. But people go around calling themselves labels they misunderstand, and opposing others based on labels, and it’s all messed up, due to “lexical dissonance” (people are confused about what words mean and then use them incorrectly, which establishes the precedent which disrupts and corrupts communication…)
If the gov’t has to grow a bit to provide things, fine. But NEVER should any organization be allowed to tell people they’re not allowed to do something they enjoy, if it isn’t actually harming anyone else. Yet, we have ridiculous unjust laws for the populous, while corporations and banksters are allowed to get away with what is tantamount to genocide and slavery. It’s fucking bullshit! And there’s no way to fix it. And there’s nowhere to go, and no way to get there, if there were a destination to reach.
The only available option to acquire enough wealth to have personal freedom, is to exploit others. Land of opportunity indeed.
What i want to accomplish, while possible, would be seen as implausibly ambitious, by most. My main project idea is pretty epic, and i doubt i will ever have a chance to actually make it happen. Someone will beat me to it, and then i’ll have to envision something else. And then someone will beat me to that as well.
So, despite knowing many things i’d like to do, what is most important is that my efforts translate to the gains i desire. If i can’t get what i want, which is what i deem minimally acceptable to continue this life, then i don’t want to continue. People easily misunderstand what i mean by “if i can’t get what i want.” I’m honestly tired of clarifying and submitting to the need for valid justification, in order to access the approval of others who cannot understand. I don’t need anyone’s approval to validate or justify what i want. If i can’t get what i want, i’m out! That’s my call, regardless of whether it upsets anyone.
So idk. I want to do lots of things, but time and energy and learning and equipment, gear i need to even begin, costs more money than i can make in a reasonable amount of time, or a reasonable amount of effort. Everything is too hard and takes too long, and doesn’t pay enough, and costs too much. There is no option available to me, to acquire enough monetary surplus, to enable myself to pursue what i feel would be worthwhile. So that translates to: the only thing worthwhile is the pursuit of wealth, because i can’t do shit until i have enough to buy the equipment i need, and also have all my time to myself, to spend on those worthwhile pursuits.
So at this point, i don’t know. Maybe i don’t really want to do anything at all, because everything costs too much (more than just money), and i can’t make enough money (or time or energy) to do anything worth doing.
I won’t fight to gain or keep that which i do not desire. I won’t fight for something i don’t want. And i don’t see any way to achieve what i actually do want… so until there is a way to achieve any of that, it’s not really possible, which means that from the remaining choices, from which i must select… i don’t really want anything.
There is plenty of stuff i would like to do… but my efforts must translate to a surplus of monetary resources, or it’s not worth doing, and cannot be sustained.
@clevername
I absolutely agree with the labeling stuff. It’s easy for people to judge based on political view when there are only like 2 parties. I also believe that people are in most cases more complex than they seem.
I still think there is hope for this world, altough I’m afraid many more will suffer before change comes.
You do seem to lack a bit of will even though I still believe you’re capable of something great, but I get it I really do and it’s okay.
On another note I have to say that you’re a very skilled writer, have you thought about that? If you want I’m certain that you can succeed there. Write about your own experiences or something. People are interested in seeing the dark side of things, but it needs to be formulated in a certain way so it’s not just emo if you get what I mean. I see in your writing that you have an aptitude for finding the right balance. I know that you can make it if you want to, but it’s all up to you.
My once relentless, incessant will, has eroded, and all but disintegrated.
My grandparents used to say: “where there’s a will, there’s a way!”
And while that’s an admirable stance to take, i spotted the inconsistency in it, at a very early age. You can’t just “will” things into being a certain way… you can’t just “will” already occurred events, to un-occur. You can’t change what you can’t change, no matter how intensely you “will it.” It is impossible to “believe hard enough” or “want it bad enough,” because no amount of wishing or believing or wanting, ever makes anything happen; it takes Action to produce results.
They also used to say: ” ‘can’t’ never could do nothin’!” As if to personify “can’t” into an entity who fails due to incorrectly believing it is incapable.
But what happens when the actions to produce the desired results, are unavailable?
When you “can’t,” no amount of sheer force of will, will manifest a way.
So, when you “can’t,” there isn’t a way. Because you can’t. Success is only based on “will,” when ability is actually present; when the actions required to produce gains, are available.
Eventually, the affliction of lack of ability, lack of access, and perpetual depressive deterioration, has finally eroded my will. I don’t see anything i want that is actually available to me. I see everything i want that actually exists, is out of reach, beyond my ability. I’ve seen this clearly, for long enough that i’ve been through the process of trying to sheer-force-of-will things to happen, because there were no other options.
Guess what. It doesn’t work! There is a will, but no way. The things i want so badly it drives me mad with desire, and ineffable frustration from being unable to reach… i cannot want them any more badly. What i want, i want as much as i can possibly want anything… but “wanting it bad enough” has never once caused me to gain anything, without being combined with a viable means of action to produce it.
I’ve been told by various teachers, throughout my school years, that i “should be a writer.” I don’t know, though. I think i should write… but i don’t think i know how to “be a writer.” I’m not really educated for composition. I just have a firm grip of the language, and a way with words. I have no idea (okay, i have “an idea or two”) how to monetize my writings. I don’t know how to translate thought, time, energy and keystrokes, into dollars. I don’t know how to do anything that is capable of producing enough income for me to fix what money can fix… and i would need to get at least that far, before i could begin to fix any of the rest of this.
I feel like it would require at least one million dollars, just to make a good start.
And i mean, a small piece of land in an area of my choosing, a modest house, a reliable vehicle, dental work (and this is a huge one), and all the equipment necessary to pursue the few worthwhile things i would be doing, if i had money to do so, and wasn’t so cripplingly depressed all the time.
Plus, you know, people want to read what “experts” have to say… or something fantastically entertaining… i doubt many people would want to know what “a loser like me” thinks, about anything. I have no expertise, no success, and no authority on any topic. I’m just not that interested in any one specific topic to become an expert on anything. And even if i were, people would want to see a degree, or a best-selling work, or some sort of “evidence” to stand as a precedent to my credibility. With so much disinformation and people trying so hard to obfuscate the very things i’m trying to clarify, it would be nearly impossible for me to build any credibility at all.
But yeah. You might say i’ve “thought about it.”
People read tweets. They get upset when they have to read more than a paragraph. If i write a comment that’s long enough to cover most of the page, or more… people accuse me of “being so full of myself” or complain about “walls of text.” As if nothing anyone could ever want to say, could ever possibly take THAT many words… even though these things called “books” exist, and are usually exponentially longer than any web-comment i’ve ever written. Some even have multiple volumes.
/shrug.
@clevername
No, I don’t think you can write something if you aim just for the money but I know that you can write something extraordinary if you put your soul into it. Many of the great writers have no degree and you don’t need one either. Have you read or seen Perks of Being a Wallflower? In my opinion excellent work. The catcher in the rye? Extraordinary book, and the protagonist does absolutely nothing. Don’t you see? You’re a philosopher and a good one at that. Trust me people wants that. There are more people like you and they’ll gladly pay some bucks for a book. People don’t give a shit about the “experts” or the guys with fancy diplomas, if they did, hell even this site probably wouldn’t exist because it wouldn’t be needed. People don’t care about logic, they care about feelings and that’s what you’ll give them. Mixed with some logic of course 😉
The thing with your walls of text is that you actually say something, which is kind of a rare thing to see. The people you are describing are once again the screaming idiots. There’s a saying, I’ll try to translate, “empty cans rattles the loudest”. To become big on the internet by writing intelligent stuff is close to impossible. I’m not giving up on you dude 🙂
I have catcher in the rye sitting in my desk drawer… it’s been there for months. I made it to chapter 7 (actually, to the end of chapter 6, without starting 7…), and haven’t been able to force myself to continue it.
It’s an excruciating read. I like the imagery it has delivered so far (which is probably mostly my interpretation of it), but the writing itself is… almost unbearable.
I sometimes feel tempted, and sometimes yield to that temptation, to go ahead and claim the title of “philosopher,” but it just feels so… uncomfortably pretentious. Calling myself “a philosopher” tends to upset people with simpler minds, as if they think the mere title represents a veiled condescension, and that it means “i’m better than you” if i say i am a philosopher. So i kinda don’t like calling myself that… even though that’s exactly what i am.
I’ve certainly heard “the empty can rattles the most” … which happens to be a quoted saying from a metallica song called “my friend of misery.” Which is actually one of the few songs i really like from the black album, even though i tend to refrain from mentioning any of that album, because it represents the end of an era, and the death of what that band once was, which is who and what they were, when discovering them was such a profoundly inspiring and enriching experience. “Justice” was easily their best album… and that’s probably because it came from the loss of cliff burton. That album is… well, it’s honestly a masterpiece.
Although, that “the empty can rattles the loudest/most” is a bit of a slippery slope, because it can easily “slide” into the similar notion/saying about “those who speak the most, know the least…” or however it goes. I think lots of people know far more, and actually have a lot more to say, than anyone gives them credit for, and it’s impossible to appropriately condense and concentrate and simplify it all into a nice, neat, concise, eloquent phrase, easy for the simple minds to appreciate. And that’s why so many “witticisms” exist, and why so many of them don’t hold up under even mild scrutiny.
It was a while ago since I read and english isn’t exactly my native language which you may have noticed, but I tend to like the writing style.
Ye, philosopher is either a degree or a compliment or well it mostly used as such otherwise it can get pretentious as you say 🙂
I think the saying is older than metallica though. Sadly I’ve never been a fan of their work, I’m more of a radiohead guy a bit more feminine I guess.
I think “those who speak the most, know the least…†works both ways, negatively and positivly depending on the person. I wouldn’t use sayings and notions like bibles, they’re just like you say only “witticisms” for fun. Just a thought, if empty cans are the loudest doesn’t mean that the full ones can’t be loud but they’re very seldom the loudest.
Gonna try to get some sleep now, it’s pretty late here. Good night and think about the writing will you? As always, a pleasure talking to you. 🙂
Philosopher is not just a title that can be claimed. It is very similar to “scientist.” You can define it as an occupation, in which case you must be employed as a philisopher, have written some philisophical text or treatise, or be educated and trained with a degree (usually a PhD) in philosophy. Or some define it much more loosely as anyone who contemplates existence and ponders at the nature of reality. With that definition, surely everyone on this site is a philosopher, along with most if not all, of humanity.
Heh.
I’m obviously somewhere in the gray area you purposely omitted from your false dichotomy in order to attempt to invalidate my claim to the label.
I obviously haven’t attained a PhD, but i don’t need anyone else to tell me what philosophy is, and that i am doing it. There is no requirement to be “employed as a philosopher” (and i’m not even sure how that would be possible…), and lacking a PhD doesn’t automatically default to “everyone else is just some random person who thinks they think deep thoughts, but is really just ignorant and self-important.”
You’re being offensively dismissive. I guess you don’t like that i have one abstract reason to like one aspect of my life, when every other part of it sucks ass.
I’m also not “just claiming a title.” Have you ever read anything i’ve written here? Did you even read where i said that i am conflicted about that title, even as i feel it is appropriate for me? Or are you just upset that someone without a PhD called themselves a philosopher? You should know by now, i’m not one to go around claiming titles i don’t deserve. But i do go around deflecting and shedding undeserved bullshit thrown onto me by others. Why? People are always trying to convince me i am or should be something i’m not, or become outraged when i claim to be anything they don’t want me to be.
Anyway, it’s not that important. I realize people are petty, deluded and willfully ignorant.
Ostrich: head in sand
Human: sand in head
Clevername, it is my whole-hearted belief that you’re a philosopher. That was my immediate take when I first encountered you on this site.
I’m not a philosopher, but I occasionally ‘philosophize.’
I’ve noticed other hardcore ‘philosophers’ on SP – Quaero, Benna, Dawg, maybe others, and people who like to philosophize at times, like myself.
There’s a difference between those who naturally think philosophically all the time, and those who’ll let their imagination run away with schemes and ideas now and again. It’s a matter of personality. Academic credibility has nothing to do with it.
Words have definitions and meaning. That was my only point. I use to claim the title philosopher. I learned some see it as disrepectful to those who have “earned” that title. For some, it is the same as putting Dr. in front of your name. You get to by properly embodying and achieving all the name impkies. And I respect that view point. I also recognize that you can give it a broader term of anyone who analyzes metaphysics, who delves into the underlying fabric of consciousness. But I believe we all do that to some extent. So, Persephone, Clever….where do you draw the distinction? Does someone just have to display a certain level of intelligience? A certain amount of thought or grammatical correctness in writings? What level of witticism in ones sayings must be present for one to get to be called a philosopher instead of just philosophizing? I stray away from labels for myself for this very reason. When you give yourself a common label that has a preset definition in your culture, it does not matter what your definition is. Because people will use the definition they know. I did read your post. You said how you hate to use that title….but then bold facedly say that is what you are. I do not doubt your intelligence. Clearly you are. And well spoken and well read. Your brain is an analytic one and one you have learned to showcase well. I merely stated that that is not the accepted meaning of the word you used. Those things are necessary. But not sufficient. I did not mean to offend you. Rather protect what my philosopher colleagues have had to fight to have the right to use.
I classify everyone based on personality. I can ‘read’ a person’s personality through their online presentations. As a personal example, a lot of people here have told me I spoke like their therapist or counselor. I studied psychology for several years, but I don’t have a degree. I’m not going to be so moronic as to say that my advice might have any more relevance than someone who studied for eight or nine years and now has a PhD, but just because I don’t have a PhD, it doesn’t mean that my ability to empathize and attempt to apply workable solutions should be totally disregarded, does it? If I had a degree, I’d still be the same person, and would likely approach problems in a similar fashion.
But if its a title that gives you pride, and you have those willing to give it to you, who am I to stop it? Be happy! You have mentioned in your previous post, which I gladly read, that it is not advisable to pretend things are different than what they actually are to make yourself feel better…even if a lot of people believe it…like in a religion….like an ostrich in the sand. But if being in a sand makes someome happy, I say live in there! Build a sand castle!
Persephone I like you as well and you ARE massively empathetic. And you should stand proud on that! But you dont go around calling yourself a counselor. Personally I think it would be a discredit to you! You do what you do without training or because its your job. It is who you are. It needs no other label than “Persephone.”
You misread me. I have never called myself a counselor. I’m saying that others have said I sounded that way.
My point is that if Clevername thinks like a philosopher now, having a degree wouldn’t change him. So, I stand to what I said.
But yeah, I’m just another random on a suicide forum, so everyone should take everything I say with a grain of salt. 🙂
Persephone!!!! I said: “But you DONT go around calling yourself a counselor!’ I did not misread you! You misread me lol 😛
Oops. Sorry. 😛
@fortunear I was curious – do you have a degree in an academic field?
PhD in Chemistry. I work(ed) at a neuroscience research facility.
Very nice. I had planned to go into neuroscience. I wanted to be a cognitive neuroscientist, and focus on the effects of perception on familiarity and recognition. The instances where people were unable to recognize faces (the brain disorder Prosopagnosia) were very fascinating to me, as well as what happens in the brain when certain neuronal pathways are stimulated so often that it becomes almost automatic – brushing one’s teeth, for instance, or any activity that becomes so second-nature that a person can do it without much extra thought, and what happens when the brain is damaged, and a person is unable to perform these activities. The human brain is so complex in its workings, yet most healthy people take everything for granted. The truth is that practically any one of us in is danger of experiencing a freak stroke overnight and walking up paralyzed, or unable to speak, or having suffered tremendous memory loss.
My ultimate goal was to understand the physioligical aspect of learning and then influence it directly by biophysical means. To make us smarter faster haha.
Cool idea. I wish I could read some of your published journals, hehe.
But Im shooting for an exit this weekend. So that and other of my other ambitious dreams end then.
What age range are you, if you don’t mind my asking? Are you past 30, 40?
25
You’re so young! I thought you were in your mid to late 30’s at least. You sure you don’t want to see if you can get past your suicidal thoughts? With a degree like that, you’ll be very financially well-off, which is always a boon.
Im also funny, charming and good looking! :-P. No. Unlike most on here, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my life. But I have slowly eaten myself from the inside so that Im a hollow, dead tree that looks strong and beautiful on the outside. The aspects of me that I adore (obsessive, analytical idealist) and refuse to relinquish are the very ones driving me to suicide.
Is there some way you can come to terms with yourself? I used to want to die because I disliked who I was, but then I finally accepted myself, knowing that all I could do was try my best. (I still ended up here because I haven’t been able to perform to the best of my abilities on account of various reasons).
I can see that you’re an intelligent individual, and I’m sure that you’re all those other qualities you mentioned, hehe. It’s just that I’ve heard of so many people in their twenties who were going through a rough time mentally, who were later able to recover and achieved success. I’m sure it must be possible. Perhaps the first step might be letting go of your obsessive and perfectionist (?) nature, while conceding that you might not be able to exist as a perfect human in a perfect world, but that you can work with what you have, and strive to improve yourself and your surrounding conditions. That’s all anyone can do.
Ive made lots of analogies/metaphors on here because I am a wouldbr writer…in that I would be a writer if I could just sit down and write something haha….but life is a struggle, a fight, a challenge. One I feel quite capable of handling. The problem arises in that it is a daily one. Every day you wake up, your alarm clock may as well be a bell ring, because its boxing gloves up for another round. Do not get me wrong. Taking a punch that tries to put your groin ten feet behind you only to recover and give back good enough that lifes face looks like the butchers meat grinder after a hard day of making sausages can be quite satisfying. But being not just a meat head, I find myself needing a reason to lace up the mitts everyday. And I have had some before. I dont know. My hands feel heavy at my sides, and I am just taking hit after hit without feeling a need to hit back. Why? What is my ‘brass ring’? Because I enjoyed it used to be enough. But I have no enjoyments. I never liked the frills others seem to enjoy.
TV, Facebook, Taking pictures, stamp collecting….even reading only held so much appeal. I had one thing. Science. Doing. Teaching. Learning. Anything abouy it. But even that has left me. I care not about attention, prestige, jet rides, private yachts, being master of my domain. I care not. About anything. No hopes. No desires.
I’m the same way, but how I see it: we’re all going to die eventually. We could die tomorrow in an accident or by organ failure. Death is an inevitably. If a person has the means to push on, why not do so? Sure, it’s all meaningless, but there must be some way to occupy ourselves while alive.
*inevitability
But my existence is painful mentally for….reasons…. If it was just going through the motions, fine, though even that would be unbearable with my wealth of ambition demanding more. But now every moment is agony. Im not sure why, but its like someone turmed up my emotional meter to 11, then opened the flood gates of my eidetic memory, so now I relive and experience…everything. I am no longer in control of my mind. The only thing I ever cared about.
Ok, I understand that too. I went through the same thing. I called it a ‘nervous breakdown’ because I wasn’t sure how else to classify it. However, amazingly enough, I’m fine now. It’s all about dealing with apathy and numbness and mind-fog now for me. I much rather this than not having control over my emotions. Maybe it’ll settle down for you as well. I felt like I was going through a surreal period where nothing made sense and I couldn’t trust myself or my decisions, and perhaps occasionally I fall back into this rabbit hole, but for the most part, I just have to worry about those in my immediate vicinity who are really putting a downer on things. My inability to improve myself is firstly my fault, but my current real-life environment is extremely detrimental and does not allow me to move forwards. I don’t know if it’s similar for you or not.
It just a wanting to move forward. Nothing is actually in my way except my mind is the collar for a lovely electric fence that is surrounding me in a circle tighter than Martha Stewarts asshole. So a move in any direction makes me yelp, fall to my knees, and promise to be a good little doggy if the shocks would just stop. And I cannot even see anything past the fence area that I want. No delicious bone or innocent doe eyed chewed toy begging me to chew it so hard its squeak is only high enough for dogs to hear it. I see naught but wasteland. 50 years worth. So anyone who tries to talk me into living seems like Moses trying to get someone to trust his map reading skills AFTER they have read the Exodus. Id rather just bury a grave safely inside my circle and bury myself. Might my outlook change? Possibly. But I have talked to people who have been depressed for years. And take the collar off and I still just have a drudgr through the dessert to look forward to. So the question becomes, do for I stay for a possible future oasis which would likely dry up anyway.
Hah, I haven’t been sure if life is worth living for a decade now, so I don’t have much to say there.
It can be! Oh my goddess it can be! I have be unapologetically, stupid happy. I mean sing young Miley Cyrus and Jonas Brothers songs at the top of my 20 something yr old lungs and believe every word joyful. My face should have cracked in half from the smiles I tell you. So, I am not a pessimist at heart and I do not believe we are all doomed from birth to isolated depression.
As “a musician” (i have earned that title, just like “philosopher,” through less-official and less-conventional means), i don’t require anyone to produce a degree in music, in order for them to claim the title “musician.” I simply need to see that they actually understand what “musically valid” means. They don’t even have to currently practice an instrument. They just have to have a thoroughly developed appreciation of music, that i can discern by conversing with them, or listening to any of their recordings, or having them critique the build-quality or nuance of their chosen instrument.
They don’t have to be “professional,” they don’t have to receive monetary compensation, or perform for crowds. There are many musicians in the world who play almost entirely for themselves, and even some who are still technically “musicians,” who do not even play for themselves, anymore.
The typical person is not a musician, and is not qualified to know “what is good and musically valid.” The typical person is not “a philosopher,” and is not qualified to understand many of the more complex and nuanced notions that philosophers often explore.
I never called myself a doctor, and i never called myself a psychologist. I never said i was a professional. But “philosophy” is actually something i do, and have done most of my life, because it’s just naturally part of who i am. It’s not about the title at all. And like i said, i’m often conflicted about the title, not because it upsets the professionals, but because it makes the normals feel like i’m being condescending toward them.
I find it ridiculous, and incredibly ironic, that any “real philosopher” who has obtained a PhD, would whine about people without a PhD calling themselves philosophers. That’s rich. lol. Surely any philosopher “worth his salt,” understands that the conventional, orthodox, “pre-fab” academia process, is not “what makes a philosopher.” If anything, those people have missed the point, and are trying to wave their degree in people’s faces, in order to feel superior. I usually avoid the title, because i don’t like making inferior people feel inferior. See the difference? Any real philosopher would know that formal course completion is not the be-all end-all of philosophy; it’s just a document that can help you get paid to think. I don’t get paid to think… but i often wonder if i could find a way to set up my own business to monetize the process of putting my thoughts into writing. I wonder how many interesting items i could sell on a “shade tree philosophy blog.” I wonder if i could write a book that causes so much social and political disruption that i get assassinated and my book “deep-sixed.”
Plenty of people have, through their own pursuits, efforts and experiences, “earned” various titles, even without following whatever arbitrary formal system people tend to mistakenly believe is the only valid path to understanding or achievement.
If things had been appropriate during my childhood and adolescence, i would probably have ended up with a PhD. My life was ruined from the beginning, because i was born to parents who didn’t understand the world, and an extended family full of theists, in various impoverished “ghetto” environments. I grew up to be what my environment allowed me to become… which wasn’t much of anything, and isn’t enough for anyone, including myself.
So, despite my lack of official doctorate, i’m far more deserving of the title of philosopher, and am not just claiming it arbitrarily. I have “earned it,” but through a different means than those who were lucky enough to be born into circumstances that allowed them to pursue higher Formal education. I’ve certainly met plenty of people who have completed college, but still seem oblivious to reality. Like, i don’t understand how anyone who has a degree can still believe a god exists. That’s baffling, astonishing, to me. Just because someone has specialized “knowledge” and training that they paid thousands of dollars to receive, that doesn’t mean they’re more intelligent… and just because i lacked the good fortune to follow the course of obtaining a PhD, that doesn’t mean i’m not a philosopher. I’m just not a Doctor, which is something i never claimed, or even wanted to be.
Good god you like to jerk off and splatter it on here like the breasts of a $50 whore you probably couldnt get anyway And youre being condescending right now, kid. So just claim it and any other title you like and be happy. Clearly none of what anyon!e says to you truly matters except to give something to diatribe, criticize, prove you smarter than, or ultimtely whine about how THEY are actually the dicks and you may have been dickish but boo hoo you, your life is so pathetic and being a dick and crowned giant dick (“philosopher”) is one of tbe last/only things you have to hang your hat on. Well I can see why! And no ones focusing on degrees. Not I. I love how I made one mention and people jump all over. Did you not read where I said my friend who has no degrees? Chill out. If you pick up the guitar everyone once in a while and make screeching noises, fine, call yourself a musician. I do not really bloody care. But no. I do not think you have earned it. Not based solely on whats been posted about you on here. Kurt Cobain didnt like calling Alice in Chains musicians either.
I just have a more stringent exacting definition of the word. Thats my right to put “philosopher” as a lofty, hard to reach moniker. Philosophizing is difficult. No two ways about it. I adore philosopghy….Kant Hegel Hume Aristotle Shopenhaeur Nietschze…all hold a special place in my heart. I have known too many people try to just grab at the term and it just illicits a giant eye roll.
It’s ironic that someone who claims to have a PhD in chemistry has such a problem with reading a few lengthy web comments.
I can see you projecting. If i’m being condescending it’s only as a counter-reaction to your initiation of arbitrary antagonism. If you dish it out and expect to not have to take it, you’re gonna have a bad time.
Most of what people say to me doesn’t matter, because i realize most are not qualified to say anything that matters. Some are, and i tend to appreciate it when i see it… but most people have terribly absurd thought processes and unacceptable judgment criteria (to me; if i’m the one judging another’s opinion of me, i am allowed to decide whether their criteria are valid; they usually aren’t), so why would i place any value on that? Most of the time it’s just frustratingly trite, maddeningly incorrect witticisms and wives tales, which almost never hold up under scrutiny.
It’s hilarious that you act like calling myself a philosopher is anywhere near similar to being “crowned giant dick.” We all know i can’t honestly claim that title, and that’s really the only thing that matters. Philosophy is barely even relevant, unless it is applied to our lives in the real world. All this “oh, academia is the only valid philosophy” is just bullshit. If you want to sit in a class and write papers for an overpaid professor for several years, go ahead. Call yourself a “PhD” after purchasing your degree with monetary privilege, and then dismissing everyone who exerts effort into higher thought, but doesn’t have the silver-spoon privilege of a “degree,” or who simply achieves a similar level of personal growth, without spending all that money… or maybe even surpasses you for free. But rest assured, you’re surely more technically qualified, and your fancy piece of paper will surely justify some faceless corporation paying you to tell them how to best exploit their customers and employees for the best possible margins. If i were in that position, i’d probably want someone who paid for that document as well, since that tells me they understand and support the system that benefits those who have plenty of money to spend, but fucks everyone elses asses in the process.
You want to rant about people “jumping on degrees?” I reluctantly accepted/admitted someone’s assertion that i am a philosopher, and you flipped out! You just can’t STAND that someone might be a philosopher without also being a PhD. Is that because you feel it devalues your investment? Do you feel like i cheated or something? I’ve been doing this my whole life. I’ve earned the title, but not the doctorate. I never claimed a doctorate. I never said “i’m the best philosopher in the world, and everyone with a PhD is full of shit.” But you’re acting kinda like i said that. It’s funny that you’re so upset. At least i’m not calling myself “the best sexual athlete in the world.” I’m sure you’d be quick to dismantle that undeserved claim, due to my inability to claim the title of “giant dick.”
When i say “i am a musician,” this is not “i have doodled once in a while.”
I started learning guitar more than 20 years ago, and had several spans of several years worth of diligent practice, and have participated in no less than two attempted bands. Due to depression, i haven’t touched my guitar in about 16 months. I have also drastically reduced, minimized, my exposure to all music, in that time. But that doesn’t invalidate the 20+ years i spent learning, thinking, and doing guitar, and doesn’t change what i know about music. If anything, refraining from music allows me to “step back” from the focus which used to dominate my musical spectrum, and more appreciate musical creations as whole pieces, rather than constantly dissecting everything to extract the guitar parts so i could replicate or modify them, and use them as inspiration to make something of my own.
Most people have no idea how difficult creating valid and original music can be. It’s easy to learn a few chords and strum them ad infinitum, ad nauseam, and it’s not all that difficult to learn tab and learn a few cover songs. But even cover bands have to count as “musicians,” because they both understand what it takes to make music, and are actually performing those acts.
Not all valid knowledge is old. Not all new “philosophy” is automatically invalid due to being too fresh and not yet established. Not all replicated music is “not music.” Not all “unofficial” philosophy is “not philosophy.” Philosophy, like many other umbrella topics, has many different areas and specializations. Guitar is the same way. No one can know all of it. Reading all the books, or hearing all the songs, can teach new concepts, but can also taint the mind and prevent, or at least influence, anything that might be produced by it. I choose not to embrace the established constructs. I choose to learn by doing, by figuring things out for myself, because THAT is the only valid way to truly understand such things: through experience. And if any of what any of those famous philosophers said, was true… then i should necessarily also be able to figure that stuff out on my own. None of those people said anything that was impossible for anyone else to understand or discern; they were just the ones whose names got glued to the words, due to various factors including timing. There is no reason for me to “redo” any of what those people did. There is only reason to “stand on the shoulders of giants” (there’s that word again… “giant”) and pick up where they left off, or, arrive upon their shoulders through my own path… which i have done, without formal training… which, IMO, clearly validates my claim. I have landed upon appreciation of bits and morsels of their wisdom, without having first been told those things. That, in and of itself, makes me a philosopher… even if you don’t like that i use that term without a PhD, because there isn’t another term that fits.
It’s just like the term “hacker.” Though most people mistakenly understand that to mean “person who commits computer crimes,” it actually means “someone who troubleshoots, figures out a problem, and devises a clever or elegant way of solving it.” You don’t even have to know computers to be a “hacker.” “Hacking” really just means “figuring it out.” I don’t like calling myself a “hacker,” because i’m not a computer scientist. I’m not a coder, though i have scratched the surface and begun to pursue a deeper understanding of programming. But programming isn’t only a computer thing. It also happens with what’s called “social engineering,” which is also linked to both psychology and philosophy.
I didn’t know kurt cobain didn’t consider AIC “musicians.” If he actually said that, he was either being absurd, or he just had a strange opinion. I like AIC’s music, and i do define it as music, and they are/were musicians. Kurt was an interesting character. I probably like more of AIC’s songs than his. That doesn’t mean i don’t think Kurt “was a musician.” It just means i think that’s an absurd thing to say… and maybe he was just being provocatively absurd. Maybe he was just depressed. His suicide certainly doesn’t make AIC not-musicians. It just makes him dead… and actually encourages people to use his image and likeness to advance their own agendas, which i think he would have absolutely despised, considering that’s actually exactly what he hated so much about the music “industry.” So by using his quote in this such way, you’re disgracing the very same person you’re trying to use to back your claims, in the very same way he, himself, most despised. That’s not very nice. ^^
Go look up the literal definition of “philosopher/philosophy.” I know, you know… but go look it up. It doesn’t say “only academia” or “only those with PhDs.” It says “especially” academia. That means it’s “most accurately true” for those people and pursuits… but doesn’t invalidate the reasonable use of the term for less-academic, more applied-reality usage.
So go ahead and eyeroll yourself blind. Have fun with that.
Guys! Wtf happened here? It looks like some kind of post-apocalypse. Seriously, most people on this site are stressed out, I get that but flaming in this way, it seems a bit below all of you. If you feel the need for that, please go to youtube or something. I believe there’s something you’re forgetting, all of this is written. It’s close to impossible to get ones own thoughts across without distortion. I know that I’m just a little insignificant shit but come on this is ridiculous. You’re so determined to get your own “right” opinion across that you forget to see the other persons mind. We’re all humans but with different experiences. If you still feel hate think about the possible results that will come from your actions. Is it probable that something good will come out of it, probably not, just walk away. Thanks…
Clever. My own verbiage ejaculate did not merit the analysis you gave. I would feel flattered you took time out of your day for my “dicking arounds” but you consistently do it on here for any old post. And I am making this longer than just repeating my “chill out” advice, which I mentioned before your last rant, so that you can exercise your fetish again! So have fun big boy. Also Kurt Cobain said Cheap Trick is awesome. And raped a retard. Enjoy.
And?