I want to know where in the bible that says all sins are forgivable except suicide. I was taught that Jesus died for our sins. All of them. So if we are forgiven, how is it that a person with a mental illness that commits suicide is automatically hauled off to hell? I lost a friend to suicide and yes I am suicidal occasionally, but I’m tired of hearing that she is doomed to hell. I don’t hear “I’m sorry for your loss” or “Do you need any help” from Christians. All I hear is “Oh she is going to burn in hell”. My friend did more for me than any “Christian” person has ever done. It makes me sick. Someone want to give me the Chapter and verse that says that it’s UNFORGIVEABLE. It might be a sin to do it, or sacrilege, but where does it say that God won’t forgive us for this? Where does it say that you kill yourself, lose a turn, do not collect 200 dollars, and go straight to hell? If God doesn’t understand us, then how can mankind do it? I’m tired of religion telling others how they should live. It’s not mankind’s place to say what WILL happen.  This is my life, and it’s up to me how I handle it. Some people can’t handle the pain, and one day I might not be able to anymore. It’s my pain and it’s my life.
share your suicide story
Report Post
Please log in to report posts
27 comments
hello there,
you have a very good question, and I have the answer for you. please send me an email and I will reply there.
howfrail at gmail dot com
@howfrail would you be so kind as to publicly answer her inquiry, as there’s others (including I) that would like to read this response.
I hear you loud and clear @Peachturnover
“It’s not mankind’s place to say what WILL happen.”
Yes it is; especially since god isn’t real, and therefore cannot “decide” what happens.
Indeed, it is up to us, mankind, to determine what will or won’t happen, via our thoughts and actions.
My recommendation is to refrain from interacting with anyone who is religious, or even theist, because you already know they’re going to think and say things that will piss you off, and you already know you won’t be able to talk any sense into them, since they have already chosen to cling tightly to their false beliefs, because they think they must, in order to manifest “god’s favor.”
Does someone who throws himself on an exploding grenade to protect his fellow soldiers go to hell?
Samson commited suicide, and asked for Gods assistance in doing it.
Judges 16:23-31
Jesus could have used his powers of miracles and Gods to stop his own death,
he chose not to so = suicide.
First of all I want to say that I am very rational, I love thinking logically and talking about science, and I will always differentiate the points of view of being a theist or an atheist. So this (“My recommendation is to refrain from interacting with anyone who is religious”) is no reason to just ignore me. I am not trying to make you believe in God and I will not try to argue with a non-religious person under the premise that God exists.
“Yes it is; especially since god isn’t real”
Only thinking out loud: You call people stupid who believe in God who isn’t proven scientifically but you don’t realize that your belief in a non-existence of God isn’t proven scientifically either.
To the thread author (now I am talking as a religious person, don’t be upset about it): God forgives EVERY sin (even suicide) if you truly regret it. Christians who don’t help you with your loss but rather talk about “burning in hell” aren’t real Christians anyways. They may believe in God but if they don’t act accordingly they should not declare themselves “Christians” (don’t understand me wrong: Everyone needs help, including those “false Christians”).
I agree that the church should not tell non-religious people how to live, but I sometimes wish this would work the other way around, too.
Last but not least: I truly feel sorry for your loss, even if I don’t know you in person. Something like that is a hard burden for anyone – even theists – , and no one deserves it. But death is part of our lives and we have to cope with it eventually.
I don’t know if you want to hear this or if you even care (if you don’t then just ignore it), but I will pray for you tonight and hope everything works out fine.
Thank you. I do believe in God. I just choose to believe he knows us and knows why we are the way we are.
@ClairdeLune: I used to be a Christian….born and raised on church from 0 until about 19 …. If there is a God…. I am certain his words are not those of the bible….its funny because most practicing Christians never actually READ the bible for a 1st hand source of information …No, they take the secondhand version from “Pastor Mo Tithes” that preaches damnation to all suicides because in Rome a long time ago….I forget his name I want to say augustine? said it was a unforgivable sin because he said that it was against the 6th commandment “thou shall not murder” and he says that “self murder” violates that….which is flawed reasoning because there is no such thing as self murder….if there is?….then their must also be “self robbery” and “self rape”….Rape murder and robbery are crimes that can only be done to other people…your life and body belongs to you….if not?….the nest time you masturbate (don’t tell me you don’t I will call bullshit) call the police and tell them you raped yourself against your own will….see how they respond… I believe suicide is one of those gray areas….it is neither right or wrong it just is….How can god punish you for not taking his gift? at that point it is no longer a gift it is enslavement.
What is written in the bible is only imagery. God did not actually create the world in 6 days, nor did he create it 6000 years ago. But the intention behind those words is what counts for a Christian.
If their are priests who preach stuff that contradicts the general beliefs of the church that really is a shame. I still think that suicide is a sin although I am not very sure about it. I know God would forgive me if I commit suicide but that is kind of strange since you could do any sin knowing that afterwards God will forgive you anyways. It is all about regretting what you did and not doing it again (that’s the problem about suicide: You can only do it once).
Also I think about my faith more of a personal thing than what the church’s dogmas say.
I agree that you can only rob other people, I could imagine some masochist raping himself tho (…..) and killing yourself is also a murder in my opinion.
Religious communities tend to ostracise people who haven’t really harmed anyone. I notice a lot of people on this site who would be ostracised by all of the main religions because of their lifestyle. Those on here who preach should first try and address this problem within their community. When they fail, their attitude toward those with opposing views might change.
Murder is defined as “the unlawful taking of another human life” to throw “self” in front of that does not cancel out what “murder” means it only makes it a subtle oxymoron that many people won’t spot….there are some things you can’t do to yourself…..you can rape others all day….There is no such thing as “self rape” it can’t be done….Rape is done against your will….if you have to use your will to rape yourself…well then it isn’t rape….you can’t use your will to go against your will…that makes no sense….if you don’t want something your body will obey your commands….it will not touch itself against your will…killing yourself is you giving up your life….that’s all ….it you are not violating yourself by doing something that you wanted therefore it is not “unlawful” because it was in accordance with your will….
@Timepiece: I don’t judge non-religious people for things that are considered sins in Christianity. I only put these criteria on myself and anyone who believes in God as well. I am not preaching, I am not trying to convince anyone to convert to Christianity (I said this a couple of times). I am asking for tolerance for Christians which many of the atheists don’t have.
@PainNlife: You are probably right on the rape part. But concerning the suicide: The definition of murder when the 10 Commandments were written is different from the definition judges use nowadays. Also ‘murder’ it is just a word, trying to tangle around with it will not change anything about being or not being a sin (as I said earlier I am not sure about this one. I reserve to possibility to change my mind at any time).
Yes. I can agree with that. I think religion has a place in the modern world. I also think that religion would have a better reputation amongst ‘alright people’ on here if those who subscribe to it did more to dealing with the problem.
@ClairDelune: Personally I only think it is a sin when you kill someone else….if you don’t want to exist in this world you shouldn’t have to….simple as that….I don’t think it has anything to do with rejecting god or “sinning”….they say its because you can’t repent well…..if we use that logic then everyone who was a good person and was a christian who died unexpectedly is in hell right now because I can guarantee they did something sinful that went unrepentant before death ….Your life belongs to you…..if he gave it to you then you have the right to give it up….you are not directly hurting anybody with your suicide…notice I said “directly”
Christians and patrons of other religions observe murder daily and it rarely inconveniences them. A suicidal person is considered weak. They are easier to attack in isolation. You’ll notice this pattern all over the place. Why are the weakest members of society, those with the least influence in society attacked with more frequency. I think it’s because they put up less of a fight, because they are deemed less important and because they are contrary to what we believe is in our interests. A suicidal person commits suicide and that’s bad but is it really worse than the axe murderer who you sit next to in the church or temple.
@PainNlife: I know it would hurt my family directly very much if I died – even more if I suicided. You always hurt the people who are close to you if you suicide. But this is not the point which makes suiciding a sin. Nevertheless I cannot talk about suicide being a sin since I am not very well informed in this subject. I just assume – and it makes sense to me intuitively – that suicide is a sin because the bible and the church say so.
Assuming that you are not religious you don’t really have to worry about sinning since that is only a religious concept, do you?
@Timepiece: Why do you think Christians don’t care about murders? Of course you cannot live all your life in sadness because there is so much evil in this world, but we care a lot. Also even if this may sound mad: As a Christian I hope I am ready to forgive the axe murderer (I even hope so if the victim was someone close to me) if he truly regrets it. That is the whole point of sinning and forgiving. But of course I am a realist and I know it is impossible to know whether someone truly regrets what he did. He would also have to go to prison just as a deterrent for others who want to do the same.
ClairDelune: “that suicide is a sin because the bible and the church say so.” lol….I just can’t with people like this….never question anything…just “yes sir I obey” but that is your prerogative….and no it would hurt your family indirectly very much if you did…I can understand how you may get “directly” and “indirectly” confused but they aren’t the same ….
I don’t care about most of what the bible says really….its contradictions invalidates most of what it says…the only….ONLY book I find worth its salt is proverbs …thats it
I’m not doubting you’re a good person ClairDeLune
You know, when I was in the doctors surgery waiting to be seen, there was this hyperactive child running around the waiting room, exploring and playing with toys. I looked around at the mostly old people and said maybe that’s what we should be doing, rediscovering the world again. At this stage, for me that doesn’t involve considering the advantages and disadvantages of religion in general. People dedicate their lives to that sort of thing and if that’s what they want todo,good for them. That thread about Hitler got deleted. I’d like to think that even under duress, I’d do the right thing. The losers in life always seem to think like that.
@PainNLife: You know, I was just waiting for this. 10 pages of text and the first time I cite the bible or the church the only thing you respond is: “yes sir I obeyâ€
@Timepiece: Thank you. It is nice to see that there are still some people who are not religious but who still don’t get out the bazooka whenever they hear the word religion. When and if (!) you get involved with religion, maybe we can talk again.
@ClairDelune: “because the bible and the church say so.” <—- this is why I said that…words that you typed…..don't try to act like I am omitting everything else you said I just drew special attention to this statement to draw attention to the mind control that goes on in these places
You are only proving my point: Prejudices against religious people are to high to be able to talk to them without being judged as stupid. I never said anyone of you was stupid.
Lack of scientific comprehension just means you have not visited a physics class, that is all.
You don’t have to support Barcelona to appreciate good football. I’ll never commit myself to any religion because I’m an individual. I’m accountable for my actions, my beliefs are my own and I’ll never seek forgiveness. The rest, that’s just mumbo jumbo.
@ClairDelune:….Interesting…please copy and paste where I called you or religious folk “stupid”….and you wouldn’t know that about me so again thats invalid…assumptions are not facts…it is mere speculation
Hi clevername, I have been reading these posts because I have definitely decided that I want to end this silly game we call a human life, and I was curious as to what others of the same frame of mind have to say. You post a lot, especially to express your opinion about religion and those who do believe in God and maybe Jesus and the Bible.
One thing came to my mind as I was reading the many times you state, in a really categorically dogmatic and egotistical way, that you know for sure that there is no god. I just have to shake my head in wonderment that you could claim such a sure knowledge of something. It seems to me that you are playing a very old game of trying to shore up your own doubts about the existence of god, by attacking everyone else who does believe. If you can convince anyone and everyone else that there is no god, then you will dispel your own doubts. I have seem many people play this game with themselves, totally unaware that this is what they are doing.
Yes, you will come back at me and say, “no,no, I really do not believe in god, I really don’t, I’m totally sure there is no god” Come on dude, be real, you don’t actually know the smallest particle about anything with any real certainty at all. And most particularly, you don’t even know who you are, where your thoughts come from. If you really get down to the most recent scientific studies in quantum physics, you will see that the cutting edges of science are discovering more and more that there really is no “objective reality”, that all that we think is “real” is just a hologram. There are a great number of great videos on YouTube, by the top scientists in this field, that will attest to what I say here.
No, you are just playing a game with yourself, and why? Well it is so obvious to me – you want to die, you want to end this meaningless game of your life, as do I. But you have been raised in this world where religion has a hold on the minds of billions, and most of these religions believe in a god of one name or another, and most of theses gods say that killing is a really bad thing, with the implication that killing ones self is also a really bad thing. And there may be consequences “on the other side”. You might be punished, you might continue suffering even more than you are now. So you can’t really off yourself with that kind of threat hanging over your head. I mean come on, so many millions and millions of people believe this. What if they are right! You just might end up in an eternity of pain and suffering.
This is your secret fear, no matter how much you bluster and rant and ridicule all those hoards of believers. How do I know? Because I have been there and done that myself, for years, for decades. So I know just what is going when I see someone doing what I see you doing. You really don’t know anything about anything, except that you seem to be in a very fragile body that is subject to such extremes of pain and suffering, and you want it to end. But let’s keep it real. Scientists who are really honest, the ones who really look into what I refer to as ontological truth, they are finding that the most “hard core” scientific research, at the level of the Planck constant, is just really “fuzzy”: there is not actually any solid matter at all. What there is is more like a hologram. And the “rules” that these sub-atomic holo-wavicles obey are just outright bizarre. So when you hang your whole argument on so called “objective” science – well you just don’t know how unsolid your arguments really are.
So I just felt it was time to present this to you, not as ridicule, not in an unkind or discourteous way, but just a neutral observation. I have been able to resolve my own doubts about this issue totally and completely and I have a profound sense of peace about it. I’m sure that I don’t know. I’m absolutely sure that I don’t care one way or the other, whether there is a god or not. I’m absolutely finished caring about what anyone else believes. I’m absolutely sure that “I’, this part in a play that I refer to as “myself” will cease to exist when this “body” seems to die. This totally obviates any concern for any “consequences” in the “afterlife”. I’m absolutely sure that it is all an illusion. For all of your bluster though, I don’t see in your post, that you have this same certainty.
How do I know these things so definitely? Ah, well, like any experiment in the hard-core sciences, to get the proper results, the entire set-up of the experiment must be specified, the right equipment must be used and the steps must be followed exactly as specified. Miss any detail and the experiment will fail. I have spent the whole of my 66 years performing this experiment, and every thing that I have experienced in this illusion of a human life has led me unerringly to this place where I am now. I know, and I know that I know nothing, that there is nothing to know. And yet, paradoxically, simultaneously, I also know everything that can be known. You will laugh, and you may ridicule and deride such a statement but this is no concern of mine. I go to my suicide day in absolute peace, with nothing but thanksgiving on my lips and goodwill to all.
Your own life is just such an “experiment”. I can see so clearly that this is true for everyone, in one way or another. But, unlike the usual “objective” sciences, where one experiment produces the same results for every researcher, in this game every life is a different “experiment”, with a different result. You get to determine the results. It still means absolutely nothing though.
Well wishes to all.
sigh.
The amount of effort you put into that, probably deserves a somewhat better response than you’ll get.
Firstly, you’re incorrect. You seem to be projecting, perhaps due to that natural sense of seeking similarity in what we observe. Perhaps there are “markers” which represent similarity to you, due to your interpretation of them, but don’t necessarily mean what you think they mean. It’s anyone’s guess, i guess.
Secondly, i am quite certain; as certain as any “scientist” can be, about anything. There is always the chance that some bit of data was overlooked or unavailable, and inclusion of that bit of data might drastically alter the results of the experiment… but that’s just it: i don’t think i missed anything significant enough to drastically alter my conclusion.
My fear is not borne of hell… but of never having lived. I fear that i cannot ever live, and since i am quite certain this life is all i’ll ever know or be, that is profoundly upsetting to me. This is my only chance to do or be anything… and so much of it has been wrecked by absolute bullshit. I am terrified that i will die before i become able to exact my revenge against those who i would not choose to allow to get away with their irrevocable detriments to my life. Likewise, i don’t “want” to choose to die, without ever having truly lived… but my circumstances are pushing the limits of what i can bear, and it just keeps getting worse, and it seems there’s nothing i can do about it. Many people are lucky that i lack the means to deliver the retribution they rightly deserve. But that’s not the point. I would choose to live in health and positivity, for the duration of my existence… but that choice is not available or accessible to me.
My life has been a massive, tragic clusterfuck of arbitrary bullshit, imposed upon me by others, most of which were indeed motivated toward their actions by religious misgivings and indoctrinated misguidance.
And it seems that everywhere i look, there are more and more of them… seemingly endless hordes of “believers,” who choose to ignore the problems and excuse themselves from causing detriment to others, while insisting some “god” has and will continue to forgive them, for affronts they do not even acknowledge, when pointed out. It is absolutely infuriating. Surely, no “hell” could quite compare to the decades of agonizing perpetual torment i have already endured, and can only reasonably expect will continue for the duration of my singular existence.
I disagree with your assertion that “this is all just a hologram.” I don’t buy-into that whole neo-mysticism at all. I think it’s merely an interesting idea, but that it is almost certainly not correct.
While i agree that i am certain that “I” will no longer exist after death, i disagree with calling all this an illusion. It’s obviously “real,” by any reasonable definition of that word. It’s all the “fabric of society” crap, all the fantastical-story filters, through which people interpret their “realities,” that is illusory. We are indeed real beings, living in a real world, with real events and consequences at stake.
But if you tell yourself “it’s not real!” then you can excuse yourself from any rule or duty or consideration of others, or any of the impacts of your actions, upon them. And i find that, and the number of people who embrace this tactic, completely unacceptable, because i have been on the wrong end of so many of those types of arbitrary hardships, caused by people who pretend that life is some kind of game, and that the suffering they cause me (or anyone else) isn’t actually real… and even that some “god” will forgive them for it! Well, whether “god” forgives them, he can’t force me to. I dare him to try. I forgive when appropriate, but not otherwise. It’s my choice whether to excuse anyone from the accountability of their own choices and actions upon me, not theirs, and certainly is not up to some fictional super-character they conveniently embrace when it suits them, but ignore all the other time.
I already have a contingency plan for “just in case i’m actually wrong.” (because one can never be absolutely, completely certain, about that which cannot be tested, but of which only absence of any evidence can ever be observed)
My fears become a little more true each new day. I am unable to live, and the end of my only possible life, is the only way to experience anything other than an ever-escalating living hell.
It’s fucking infuriating that so many people seem so convinced that i’m wrong about everything, even while the only things they “know” about me, are words on a screen, interpreted through their own filters, many of which i openly disapprove.
Almost everyone tries to contort the actual facts into what they would prefer to think. Only so few of us are so bold as to confront the *reality* of what those facts and data actually show. I guess people don’t like that i do that so readily, or that what i find and share, is not what they wanted such an endeavor to reveal.
You’re all just shooting the messenger, instead of listening to what the fuck i’m telling you. But no. I get bombarded with all kinds of bullshit, have everyone quoting me out of context, misinterpreting almost everything i say, and then telling me I’M wrong, while refusing to accept that you have misinterpreted my words, through applying your own arbitrary filters to them.
“This” definitely isn’t any kind of life i ever wanted.
I’m not afraid of the afterlife. I’m tormented by each passing moment of every single day.
I could have had a much better life, if so many people weren’t so fucking stupid.
But they are, and it is what it is. So yeah, i’m bitter, disgusted, angry, even profoundly sad… and i feel very little reason to hold my tongue… because i know that nothing i say will change anything, and in the end, nothing matters. But right now, while we’re alive, it certainly does matter, to me, what i experience, and that so many others have caused so many things to go so wrong for me, that almost all of what i ever experience is miserable. So, fuck anyone who has a problem with me saying whatever the fuck i want, while i’m still alive to do so. And that’s the side of me people will get, when they push me further into where i never wanted to go. I refuse to accept or tolerate what i don’t feel is acceptable or tolerable. I decide that, not anyone else.
I like this
Hitler Didn’t believe in Religion or god.
“I am terrified that i will die before i become able to exact my revenge against those who i would not choose to allow to get away with their irrevocable detriments to my life.”
Ts, ts, ts. I guess one cannot misinterpret that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection