Hmmm….I think about how religion keeps insisting that god needs money and that he is so interested in tax free organizations …. So God can collect but he can’t contribute towards the national debt? ….Jesus saves though right?…yeah saving your fucking tithes for his holy mansion because he not paying Uncle Sam shit!! …
I’m just saying if YOU believe in god why can’t you keep it to yourself? God has no need for money (when I say “God” let me be clear this is in reference to the Christian belief this is NOT me indicating a belief in anything but for the purpose of discussion I use the term) …why do you have to waste time every Sunday and expect God to give you a blessing….for tithing and shit….like what the fuck is that about?…
Lets say you were a millionaire right? And you gave mmm about 20 million in tithes to a church wouldn’t you expect them to at LEAST have a program in place to help the members if they fall on hard times right? Apparently Evander Holyfield should have sought a church or religion that did…
http://pimppreacher.com/post/69012069835/23-million-reasons-why-evander-holyfield-should-punch
Ouch talk about losing money….
You don’t have to give God money to be in good standing with him….so why do we need these stupid tools of control around anymore? We should all burn religious text for new years… That would be a great way to go in….
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“…why do you have to waste time every Sunday and expect God to give you a blessing….for tithing and shit…”
Evidence that they do indeed understand “cause and effect.”
“You don’t have to give God money to be in good standing with him….so why do we need these stupid tools of control around anymore?”
Evidence that they still don’t understand who really benefits from the established systems.
The concept is aptly and concisely described, thus: “slave now, pay later.”
If you believe there is something you will gain, you will be easily lead into doing nearly-free labor for the super-rich… but then, after all that, you’ll die and get nothing, because god isn’t real.
Actually, it’s almost identical to what the “internet money gurus” do; they create hope of fantastical gains, which “markets itself,” to those who are so desperate and ignorant to not understand how/why it works/doesn’t, who are willing to believe anything, as long as it can potentially gain immeasurably valuable/priceless rewards.
1. Tell them you have figured out a way to gain what they want
2. Sell them their own dreams
3. ???
4. Profit
I agree with you clevername…but I just want people who are deeply involved in the many religions to understand that too…
Then what would be required, would be to compile all the necessary information to subvert their dominant paradigms, and make it freely available and accessible to everyone.
In other words: “start a new religion.” (except this one would be all about teaching and obviating the inherent folly and fallacies of religion in general, and would have few, if any, strict guidelines, most of which would depend on logic, reason, and rationality… discernment… and probably also compassion, cooperation, and an instilled duty toward appreciation of the finiteness of life, reduction of human suffering, function over form, prevention as the best medicine…)
It’s amazing, to me, how people so readily embrace generalized “tolerance,” without realizing that such a paradigm allows intolerable things to proliferate.
Most people apparently suck at judging *appropriately,* so “we” need to start teaching people how to do that more effectively. If everyone made better decisions, the world would be a better place for almost everyone.
People need to realize and agree that it is their own personal responsibility to make better decisions, not the will of some “god,” and that by making better decisions, they will have more power to control what should be better controlled, and will accordingly gain benefits from the requirement of effort in so doing.
They have to “believe” that changing their ways will make a worthwhile difference, even if only to themselves, but preferably, with the understanding that if everyone cooperated toward better ends, the means would be less damaging, and therefore make the world a better place.
But i haven’t figured out the part about making people care about making the world a better place; i think we have to first solve the “trapped in survival mode” wage-slavery conundrum, which is no small task.
It’s going to require a revolution. I doubt i’ll live long enough to see it, but i feel it would be “worthwhile,” to contribute anything i can, toward the correct changes. I would like to think that my actions could eventually result in giving lots of people chances they would otherwise never have, that i never had, and would prevent lots of problems, while subsequently and significantly decreasing the requirement of solutions, and effort spent on things that don’t ever need to happen in the first place. Prevent the problems, avoid the requirement of their solutions, as well as the suffering caused by unnecessary problems which cannot be effectively solved.
God is separate from religion. God is independent of the mess man has made with it.
The facts are plain and simple….. either you believe in God, His power and authority in this evil world, or you don’t.
And just what if YOU were wrong in mocking Him???
And just what if YOU have to pay for that in the next world?
Do you really think you might now? After all, jsut coz YOU don’t believe, doesnt mean it can’t be actual reality 🙂
If mocking god means I’ll go to Hell for all eternity, all the better. I mean, any god who gets his feelings hurt for being mocked by unbelievers, because they don’t see sufficient evidence to think he exists, is a pretty screwy god. I mean, if I were beating old widdows for their last mites, then sure, I can see eternal torment for that. Wait… no, actually, not even then. Hm..
@lorax:…That’s funny lol
well i guess you/we will find out at the very end who is right after all 😉
I am a lot like Elijah – God ain’t in the wind, and he ain’t in the falling rocks, but he talks with a still small voice. Well, if that’s so, he can whisper to me and tell me to STFU. Maybe call down some fire from the sky to kill those false prophets on the mountain. When those kids were mocking Elisha, that bear came out and ate those little bastards. Fucking kids. Serves them right.
“well i guess you/we will find out at the very end who is right after all”
Yeah, but that doesn’t change any atheist’s decision to not believe in God. If you gamble with very small probability to win and you actually win you cannot justify your decision to gamble with the outcome.
For atheists, believing is gambling with small probability to win.
For theists, believing is not a gamble since faith is deeply rooted in their minds and they are convinced of Gods existence.
fact remains……
either there is or is not.
and that end result is reality whether someone chooses to believe or not.
It was actually two female bears who mauled 42 kids in that chapter, but apparently some of them survived the vicious mauling. My bad.
@WIG
You like talking, so maybe you’d like Crisis Chat – http://www.******.com/Crisis-Chat
numbers have meaning in the Bible.
that story represents something other than what appears.
just like Noah having been
“hundreds of years old”.
The idea of looking for meaning in numeric references in the bible is a lot like looking for meaning in some sticks you tossed on the ground to divine whether the next season will be warm and wet or cold and dry. I thought that kind of witchcraft was forbidden in the bible.
@lorax: 3 is the number for heaven and God (trinity etc), 4 is the number for earth and humans (4 seasons, 4 directions on a compass etc), 1000 means very much or very long, … These numbers dont add any additional meaning to the bible, they just underline what was already there: 40 days in the desert, 4 = human, 10 = much.
Also I am not an expert on maths in the bible, so don’t ask for more examples^^
It has relevance to the Hebraic / Aramaic bits because their alphabet doubled as their numeric system. Read some Jewish exegetical pieces and you’ll find they absolutely loved deriving weird occult meanings from the numerics of letters. I never put much stock into it, but I was never much into mysticism.
clair has it right,.,,,,,
satan seeks to immitate God, so there is often a corresponding satanic version to Bible numerics
(in plain english,….. “numerology”
And numerology is actually explicitly forbidden in the same passages where you might use it as an exegetical device to understand the very thing stating what you’re doing is forbidden. Imagine that! Jeeze, that was a confusing sentence to write.
“well i guess you/we will find out at the very end who is right after all ”
Only if i’m actually wrong.
If i’m right, you’ll never know, because you’ll believe otherwise until you die, but won’t be capable of awareness of any kind, after you die.
This is why it is imperative that you understand NOW, while we’re alive, that i’m actually right. Now’s your only chance!
True or not true, do or do not, if the result is people treating one another more humanely, I’m all for it. If the result is people trying to kill one another over some words somewhere, I’ll probably think it’s kinda dumb and pointless. Just my take on the whole thing.
Treating others more humanely, yeah, that is what Jesus entitles us to do. Being humanely includes being tolerant to others. Unfortunately some people believe that others don’t deserve the same tolerance that they are given by them.
Intolerance is the damnable irony of being human, I think. It’s definitely the core irony of just about any conflict on god’s green earth.
yes, tolerant….
BUT
only tolerant as long as it is within established laws of God
so tolerating gay marriage is not something we are required to do. Not in the least.
People want to believe there’s more than this, because this sucks.
But at the same time, if you *truly* believe there is a better afterlife awaiting you, what’s keeping you here? Fear? Yes. You believe that by causing your own demise, you will be disqualified from “heaven.”
Ergo: anyone who believes an actual god is real, and believes they will “go to heaven” after death, would be out there fiercely confronting every potentially fatal obstacle, “doing god’s work,” with zero fear of death.
But then you’d be a tool of the church, just as the church intended, which was the whole point of religions and bibles in the first place.
If you think this is all there is, you’ll have a significantly increased desire to make the best and most of it, because it’s your only chance to ever be or do anything at all.
One of those mindsets tends to yield a better and more “present” appreciation of life, while the other tends to result in being oblivious and allowing oneself to be used toward the purpose of perpetuating the problems which most deeply affect the most people.
“But then you’d be a tool of the church”
IF you are right and the church invented God. That isn’t my opinion so I don’t have to worry about being exploited by the pope.
“so tolerating gay marriage is not something we are required to do.”
Of course you have to tolerate gay people. Tolerate doesn’t mean you have to become gay yourself but you have to accept gay people as equal members of society and treat them as such. The only reason why gay marriage could be underprivileged is the fact that families with father and mother are required for society to survive (implying that homosexuality is something which can be influenced). And the only reason for the adoption of children by gay couples to be underprivileged is the question whether children need father AND mother to have the same chances and perfect education that children of heterosexual families have.
Gods will for us to be tolerant and love each other is way more important than his “apparent” refusal of gay marriage.
Hey, if God doesn’t like gay marriage, why does he need foot-soldiers to fight his battles for him? He brought those walls crumbling to the ground at Jericho, didn’t he? It bugs me when people politicize faith, as though human legislators are priests or something, and god’s word is literally the law of the land. That leads to all sorts of awful stuff, both for society, and for religion itself.