- In an 1848 novel by Balzac ” lost illusions” which I read when I was in my early twenties there was an extended paragraph which I found astonishing, astonishing because of the psychological insight contained within. It said ( I’m paraphrasing because it’s been nearly 14 years since I read it) that there are 3 types of suicide. 1. Suicide borne of despair. 2. Suicide which is reasoned out. 3. Suicide after a long illness. ( The illness in question was not specified but my instinct tells me hardcore depression) it went on to say a man can backtrack from the first and second type of suicide but not from the third. The third will claim his life in the end. I know deep down I belong in the third category. Modern therapy doesn’t like to hear of such brutal realities and will declare boldly anyone can be saved, a nice thought but just not true. For some suicidal folk it’s just inevitable in the long run.
share your suicide story
Report Post
Please log in to report posts
13 comments
Ps the layout of this post has come out oddly, I got roped into some strange automatic layout as you can see from the numbers. Technology and me don’t gel.
I agree. Although I’m not currently suicidal, I still hold tightly to my methods. My long illness is both mental and physical. The trick for me is knowing when the time comes.
Glad to hear you’re not suicidal at the moment clipped!
I haven’t read that Balzac piece, but he’s one of my favorite authors. One thing I want to point out, which your example may support, is that Balzac was a master of subtle irony, so his words are not to be taken at face value but to be searched for their hidden meaning.
One overt & hilarious example of this would be his essay on “The Pleasures and Pains of Coffee” (an addiction that killed him) where he promotes his new way of drinking coffee by eating straight coffee grounds so they do maximum damage.
Ok back to your example, I would say that all 3 excuses for suicide are the same, and the objective sufferer will naturally find the category that best suits him/her, but it all comes down to the same thing: despair (hopelessness).
Whether it’s a physical illness, depression, frustration at losing your fortune, lost love, or the headiest excuse: philosophical psychobabble, they are all the same expression of hopelessness. Categorizing suicides into 3 convenient groups reeks dangerously close to saying “my reason is better than yours” which doesn’t fly.
My guess is that Balzac was messing with you, probably pointing out in a subtle way how absurd it is to differentiate between what suicides are justified or not. Just like the Coffee essay where goes through lots of (deliberately) silly arguments justifying and explaining his awful health and irritability with circular philosophy before ultimately ending the essay with:
“My friends were wise men of the first rank, and we found the problem soon enough: coffee wanted its victim.”
^meant to say subjective sufferer. Haven’t had my coffee today.
You know your stuff Salt, Balzac is my favourite artist and in the paragraph I quoted there was no subtle irony believe me though you do make a good point, however I have to disagree, the third suicide is not instantaneous or a reaction to misfortune but inevitable, good to converse with a fellow Balzac fan!
Cool nice to meet ya! And yea I was making a huge assumption without even reading it so I’ll take your word for it. I totally understand what you’re saying about #3 being a chronic, lifetime pain whereas the first 2 can be knee jerk reactions brought on by an isolated event.
I’ve wondered about that for years, especially since it gets cloudy when we’re talking about mental health vs. something quantifiable like cancer.
I still don’t know what to think which is why this topic really interests me. Lemme throw a hypothetical situation at you (which is actually my effing life story lol)…
Suppose Person Z is healthy, lucid, and mostly sane. But then Person Z suffers a horrible tragedy and mental trauma. Instead of getting over it, Person Z spirals down year after year. In other words, the instantaneous reaction to misfortune *becomes* the chronic type #3 suicide. Is that valid? Can types 1 & 2 cross over into 3 and become utterly hopeless even though it was just 1 isolated event that caused it?
I think the question of can one backtrack from suicide is the question here, the 1 ultimately leading to the 3 you describe I can totally relate to because the instantaneous reaction has become chronic it’s also my life story, in short I do think 1 and 2 can lead to 3.
Sorry, gotta nitpick (it’s my nature.) Wouldn’t depression be more synonymous with despair? My guess would be 3 was referencing chronic physical illnesses – cancer, dementia, parkinsons etc., where people end their lives to avoid continued deterioration.
Obviously can’t speak to your circumstance, but I think some people with ‘hardcore’ depression (convinced they’re incurable) later go on to find their lives meaningful again. I do think some small number of people probably are beyond saving, and I often feel myself to be in that number. But I think a lot of people who probably could get better with the right help feel the same. So how do you know? Perhaps the best you can do is give a range of therapies a reasonable shot, and if they don’t help try to be clear on the reasons why, and why nothing else is likely to help, putting despair and the emotional conviction that it’s hopeless to one side. I guess that’s as close as you can come to knowledge about the inevitability of an outcome.
Interesting argument you make but I shall stick to my guns the first and second type of suicide one can theoretically backtrack from but the third “small number of people who are beyond saving” the suicide outcome is inevitable. 1 and 2 could perhaps benefit from therapy but 3 I don’t think so.
I suppose the issue is that people who may be 1s are often convinced that they’re 3s – they feel sure ‘in their bones’ that they’re beyond help, but a change in experience later proves them to be wrong. I don’t think that feeling alone is enough to supply knowledge of the inevitability of the outcome.
Yup I tend to agree (hope) that this is true. I’ve had enough extremes of highs & lows to know that neither is conducive to clear thinking. At my lowest, I’m convinced I’m a 3 with no hope, but as soon as I swing back to the middle I realize that was crazy talk. Conversely, when I’m at a peak I feel like I’m suddenly cured and I’ll never be depressed again… but then I swing back to center and realize that was just as crazy as thinking suicide was the only way out.
I’ve met a few people with mental illness who I think are real 3s. It’s constant agony for them without a moment’s break, going on for years. Fwiw I think those people have a “physical” mental illness – brain damage or critical abnormalities with brain chemistry. I don’t think that’s me; I can always explain exactly what’s wrong in rational terms so it’s not like I’m in a cloud of pain like others I’ve seen.
I met a kid once who was a total basket case, triggered to crying fits or violent outbursts by almost anything. During one fit he started screaming “I’m so sad all the time and I don’t know why!” He’s definitely a 3, and unless the medical world has a significant breakthrough, and fast, I’d say he’s screwed.
So the more I compare my situation to others, I feel like I’m just a lowly 1 lol. Maybe I was once a 3 (when I first joined this site I was a basket case), but perhaps I was able to downshift.
I think I’m probably a mix of 1 & 2, though I often feel like a 3. Much of the time I’m rationally convinced that there’s no way my life will ever be meaningful again. But while I’m full of sadness, exhaustion, and uncomfortable much of the time, I wouldn’t say it’s constant agony. I can really imagine it being worse – if i became disabled and unable to do anything to distract myself say. Although I can also imagine it being better, even if I was in severe physical pain, if I had more meaning in my life to get me through it.
I think you’re right – some people do have severe issues with brain chemistry which lead them to feel misery for no external reason. Whereas I can understand what it is about my situation which is causing me pain, even if I can’t control it that easily.