I think I need some outside input on this. My own feelings fluctuate all over the place.
I’m trying to weigh up whether suicide is the wisest choice for me, as things stand right now. Whether it would be more rational than continuing to live. Whether it would be in my best interests, all things considered. I’ll start by trying to clarify my present state, compared to conditions where I’m fully convinced it would be better to end it.
For starters, I don’t have cancer, or some other terminal disease, or a degenerative condition like dementia. I’m not severely disabled, and I’m not in agonizing pain. I wouldn’t say I was healthy, and I have a number of low-level physical discomforts (IBS, skin problems, insomnia etc.) But I’m in better shape than many. I have any number of physical flaws and defects, but I wouldn’t say I’m hideously disfigured or anything.
I’m not homeless, though I am still living with parents long past the age where that’s socially acceptable. I have some savings, a little work experience, and some education, though I’m long-term unemployed, and my CV is pretty pathetic. I’m a long way from financial independence, but I don’t live through grinding poverty by any means.
I’m not in prison, I don’t have a criminal record, and no one is pursuing me with threats of violence. I do have an awful past that could potentially catch up with me at some point to terrible effect, but that seems unlikely in the near future, given the current allocation of policing resources.
I have a supportive, understanding, and loving family. Though they’ve been hurt and distressed by my endless failures, I know that my death would be completely devastating for them. I feel an obligation not to do that to them, not to ruin what in many respects seem content and meaningful lives, though I don’t know if that’s enough on it’s own to keep going. My sister just got engaged. She seems really happy. The idea of casting a shadow over the wedding doesn’t feel too good.
I spend much of my time consumed by longing, loneliness, regret, shame, guilt, fear, self-disgust, and despair. These burdens weigh on me considerably. I don’t know if I’d say they’re unbearable, but I don’t know how to live with them. I think I’ve irreversibly cut myself off from any human connection, by the ways in which I’ve lived, and the person I’ve become. There’s things I don’t think I can change about myself that no person should accept. I long to go back, and do it all differently, but of course you can’t. Now I don’t think I can ever let anyone in, or be myself around anyone. Involving myself with anyone feels wrong, like a deception. I don’t think I’m capable of any degree of intimacy. Like I’m always going to be utterly alone, even when with people. I’m morally, socially, and personally inferior. Much of the time I struggle to see any meaning in my life. I can’t see how I could ever invest it with enough purpose to make it seem worthwhile. I feel I’ve robbed my relationships of the possibility of any deeper meaning. But that could all be overly pessimistic.
I’m still capable of enjoying distractions, hedonistic pleasures and aesthetic pursuits, at least some of the time. But the older I get, the more hollow it all rings, unanchored from any sense of deeper meaning.
I don’t know how to weigh all of this. My life is often unpleasant at the moment, but I don’t know if I’d call it appalling, or if it’s sufficiently bad to overcome the obligations I feel to family. I don’t know if I’d be justified in ending it – whether the costs to family would be offset by my current burdens. Those burdens feel considerable, formidable even, but I don’t know if they’re sufficiently severe, or overwhelming, or unacceptable.
I’m not even sure if death’s the best thing for me, just from a selfish point of view. I don’t know what the wise choice is here. Whether my current existence is truly unbearable, whether my quality of life is so poor that it’s not worth continuing. I don’t know what the reasonable response to all this is. No one ever talks about when it’s best to end it, and when you should go on, and how to tell the difference.
If I had a terminal disease, or debilitating pain, or was facing imminent imprisonment, violence, or homelessness, I feel it would be clearer cut. But where I am now, I really don’t know. Any considered input would be appreciated. I feel like if I could just make a decision one way or the other, and feel confident in it, it might ease some of the burden.
20 comments
Do you have an exact reason for wanting to die?
Just a general combination of feelings that I should – that I can’t ever experience happiness again, that I don’t know how to live with the pain and despair of that, and that I’m a terrible person who deserves to die. There’s no recent trigger – it’s just a sense that’s been building over the last 5 years or so. Every day it’s on my mind, and every day I talk myself out of it, but the thought always comes back. I need to make a real decision, and feel confident in it.
What bothers you the most? What does your family think of you?
I’d say what bothers me the most is the overwhelming sense of longing, and the despair that comes from seeing no way to fulfill it.
My family are frustrated by my failure to live a functional life. They love me, they value me, they even respect me far more than I deserve (they don’t know the truth), but my failure to build a life is hurting them – they still feel responsible for me.
What would fulfill your sense of longing?
It’s complicated. Possibly if I could feel a real connection with someone (though that in itself seems impossible.) But perhaps not even then. I don’t know.
In a way it’s a longing for something that there’s no good way to fulfill now – it’s kind of based on the past – it’s like a part of me is fixated on opportunities I’ve lost.
What you are actually weighing out is dying early, because as immortality hasn’t been discovered you have a date of departure from life. That moment is currently unknown, and as your parents are currently alive the chances are that you are still in the first half of your life.
Consider: average life expectancy in the western world is approximately 80 years old. 0-20 is first quarter, 20-40 is second quarter, 40-60 is third quarter and 60-80 are fourth quarter. The first and last quarter are conversely the most expensive and the least economically rewarding. For many on the other hand these two quarters are the most emotionally rewarding.
We’ll go with worst case that you’ll live the whole term, so in the equation that is the placeholder for duration.
The base equation for suicide can be represented this way. X equals positive reasons to be alive, Y equals reasons to die, usually pain (doesn’t have to be physical pain.) When X > Y, life should continue, every single time. When Y > X, that’s when you feel suicidal. The transitions between them is when there are confusion, roughly around X = Y. This is all symbolic logic, because logic is a form of math (also known as philosophy math.)
It would appear given the information you gave that the pleasures of life roughly equal the pains. Your fear that it may always be so is somewhat rational, but it reflects the irrational belief that change will not happen, or that change will always be for the worse. If that level of prediction was possible you’d actually be able to turn the negativity to positive. In economics it’s known as shorting the market.
Things will not continue to get worse, you have control over your decisions. Even when there are many large and powerful entities involved, you choose your part.
Which is exactly why you are able to consider choosing death, instead of life. It just doesn’t logic out as a good decision even in cases where the immediate future appears bleak. Because being alive is a state of change, if you were in prison you might get a pardon, or break out in a big escape. On the level of things you could control, you might find a way to enjoy your situation, maybe you read some great books and learn to be a great author, or find joy in your relationships with those around you. Such things are possible in every situation.
Yes, things might get worse. They might also get better. The moment you choose death that collapses the possibilities to the worst state a human can occupy; dead. A dead person cannot think, cannot enjoy or suffer. They cannot like their friends, they can’t even hate anything. They cease to participate and the loss of their participation hurts the people they leave behind.
What is more if such a state sounds like relief, it is already coming. The chances are that it is coming in 4th quarter, most people die within 80 years of their birth. That may seem like a long way off, it is not. Life is startlingly short.
There’s a woody allen joke and it goes like this:
Two old ladies are sitting in a retirement home cafeteria. The first old lady says to the second:
“This place is awful, the food gives me indigestion and tastes terrible!”
The second old lady nods her head and replies:
“I know, and such small portions!”
Life is like that, it’s tough and difficult to digest. Then just when you think you’re getting the hang of it it’s over.
Perhaps it’s true that my reasons to end it are currently equal to my reasons to remain, hence confusion.
I agree that change is bound to happen, and is not always for the worse. However, I cannot see any change bringing a significant positive. I’ve spent a long time in this general state (over 10 years), and nothing has gotten better. I can’t think of any ways that would be likely to make it better. I do have control over my decisions, but the things I have tried over that time haven’t made a difference. On the contrary, things have gotten worse. It seems likely that given more time, all that will happen is continued physical decay, ever greater loneliness and loss of hope, and risk of major suffering (accident, illness etc.) Of course, there’s always the possibility that some unforeseen positive could happen. I don’t possess absolute knowledge. But it’s a question of what weight to give that theoretical possibility against the reality of continued suffering.
I don’t agree that nonexistence is the worst state a human can occupy. Burning alive. Dying of cancer. Being violently tortured for months. Locked-in syndrome. Those are the extreme examples.
If I were imprisoned I might receive a pardon. Or I might spend years being violently raped and beaten to a pulp (it’s possible that I might enjoy that, but unlikely.) On release I might rebuild my life with a sense of a clean slate. Or I might spend the rest of it cowed by overwhelming shame, social stigma, and an even greater struggle to survive. It’s all about weighing up the probabilities. It doesn’t seem wise to me to cling to hopeful possibilities. Perhaps your dementia gets cured by a new miracle discovery? Or perhaps you spend your final years tortuously losing your sense of self, as those who love you look on in despair?
Yes, death is coming. But things can get awfully bad in the mean time. And things are pretty bad already. I just don’t know if they’re bad enough, yet.
Life is short. Except when you’re suffering. Then, the clock can tick awfully slowly. Under extreme enough conditions, a minute can feel like an eternity.
I think we just disagree fundamentally about the reality and significance of suffering. It sounds like for you, it doesn’t even register into the equation.
Here’s what I think it all comes down to. There’s no absolute gauge of who should commit or why, so nobody can tell you anything helpful to your situation, except this: If you have what it takes to kill yourself, then it’s probably right for you.
We all fall into the trap of thinking suicide is just a matter of deciding to do it. But no, that’s not even 1% of the deed, otherwise suicide would be a lot more prevalent. Statistics show only around 16 people out of 100,000 succeed. Man that’s not even 0.02% Odds are, nobody here, not you, not me, not the lurker reading this, go through with it no matter how many pages we type about why we need to die.
That’s why I think all suicide discussion forums should try to focus on support and recovery, because really, those 16 people in 100000 don’t need any encouragement to go ahead. They’ll just do it.
You may well be right there. I guess I want to believe that if only I could resolve in my mind that it was the sensible choice, then I could bring myself to exercise that decision and do it. But even if I could get that far, it’s probably unlikely that I could overcome my survival instincts and finish it. I’m not at all physically impulsive in that way. Perhaps it’ll only happen if I get truly desperate, or perhaps not even then.
That’s one crazy stat. Who knows – I guess I’ll try to prepare myself, and then keep putting it off until it’s far too late. Maybe it’s just the thought of having even that little bit of control over your own suffering that’s appealing.
I think you nailed it. That’s the best we can do, to prepare ourselves mentally, and if one day the catalyst is strong enough then we become part of the rare few who do it. Either way, yes, the mental rationale must come first. And like you said, just that little bit of control is appealing.
Nobody really reports on suicide, in terms of following the person’s thought process, so it’s hard to guess what makes someone take that final step. Even researching the few successful suicides on this site, reading their old posts, doesn’t offer any unusual patterns that separate them from those of us who continue to live. My guess is one day something really bad happens, and in that moment of desperation they just go ahead.
I really wish psychologists would research this rather than just label all suicides as “mentally ill” and close the book. I’m sure some suicides are impulsive, and other people think it out rationally like you’re doing. It would be great to get to the bottom of what finally pushes someone over the edge.
Kind of how I see it you have to prepare prepare prepare think about it for years and then one day it seems you just wake and decide it’s time to follow through.
A part of me feels like you are intellectualizing it too much. Suicide to me is something you are instinctually drawn to do, you follow your gut. Your gut will tell you if you have reached the peak of more despair than you could ever imagine. Yeah I could sit here and go through for you,
I still live with my parents and I’m 24 – the hardest part about that was I was molested as a child by one of my parents for about 5-10 years. I looked forward to 18 so I could get the hell away from them. I knew if I couldn’t get out, suicide would be my best and only choice. I distracted my mind by planning my suicide and I vowed I would kill myself the day I turned 18 by gunshot to head and there’s no way I would screw it up. That became the only thing I ever wanted.
Surprise! I couldn’t get the f*ck away from them and they (the child molesters) are the ones that FORCED me to not commit suicide.
Instead, they started sicking police control on me when I was close to getting the f*ck away from them (bear in mind, I have never wanted these folk near me or in my life, and I would never waste my time with or on any of them) but them doing that just was a nastier form of abuse to me.. I think some of it had to do with homophobia
I thought I was done being molested and it stopped for about 3 years (my last year of high school and two years after that) then it picked up again in 2014 slowly but then started increasing by 2016, I was experiencing full-on the worst molestation of my life and as far as I know it is still happening and whoever is molesting me is not planning to stop because they like it too much. I’m just feel very bad because even though I have to get away from them I seem to be incapable of committing suicide because they took away my shotgun when I finally got one. (No I have no idea who told them I had a shotgun I do not speak to or like any of these folks but apparently someone was following me to rat on me that I had a gun. I don’t know who would follow me, all I know is I was SO relieved to finally have my gun. I’d been waiting 10 years to have this gun. All I had to do then was drive into the middle of the desert and abandon the car and shoot myself. But someone was following me? Why would they be following me?
Their mindset is oh some people go through real tough time but it makes them stronger than they have a story of overcoming (I just suppose that is where they find the incentive to sexually molest me) I don’t ask but that it what I am told.
After the molestation started picking up so strongly again, that is when they started sicking the police on me. The police actually, so deluded by violent power, put me in jail and I had to suffer in jail for two and a half years. The night I was arrested the molestation was so bad that the next day I was going to drive to a bridge 4 hours from here and jump off to kill myself, then I am abruptly arrested deeming me incapable of going……..
One of the molestations (full on rape) totally maimed me and now I can no longer walk, read, cook for myself, or do much of anything other than try to kill myself and tremble back and forth.
You could drive yourself crazy by trying to weigh why is your life so bad that you should commit suicide…. you just go with it if you feel like your gut is telling you that it is the right thing to do.
I was meaning to ask you what was so bad about your past? And how old are you that it’s not socially acceptable to live with your parent?
They molested you and You went to prison? What about them, shouldn’t they be in prison?
Forgive and forget I guess but I don’t know it keeps happening…. I’m still a little permanently shook because I have a feeling it was the ones molesting me that reported me to the police. I’m finally out of jail but they are still making me pay them ($)
I went to prison for smoking marijuana and drinking 2 or 3 beers while driving..
I’m not trying to over-exaggerate anything, but that is just what had happened and how it played out..
You haven’t told to police men that they molested you?
How are they making you give money to them?
I don’t pay the folks that molested me, I’m paying the courts and police because the people who were molesting me dialed me in (potentially) I don’t know who dialed me in but the timing was just around when I started frequently being sexually assaulted. I’ve paid the courts around 12,000$ USD. The police have abused me so much, there’s nothing they could do, except then they’d know of me and bother me more. So I just kind of sit in the background and try not to cause any trouble.
Do you go to work?
Who molested you the most? Your mother and father?