On the one hand, want not to exist. Want not to have the experience of being ‘me’. No more regret, no more despair, no more isolation, self-hatred, guilt or shame. For all the wrongness just to be over. No more. Just emptiness instead. And I should do it. I should not exist. What I am should not be.
On the other hand…fear? Fear of? What if it’s not the end? I fear judgement, punishment, torment and eternal regret.
It’s hard for me to believe that this world has a creator capable of sitting in moral judgement. The amount of pointless suffering that takes place in the animal kingdom alone seems to suggest that ethics were not of great concern. Nature is red in both tooth and claw. The inference would be that human experience is irrelevant to any creative power, and that our consciousnesses simply dissipate when our lives end. No pearly gates, no paradise, no eternal damnation. God, if he exists, does not much care for our individual existences.
But what if I’m wrong? How could I ever have enough confidence in my doubts to follow them to their logical conclusion? How can I tell if my rationality is sound, my reasoning unbiased, my perception clear? Could I ever take that leap into the dark, even in utter desperation? The problem of being raised in a theistic culture is that it’s drilled into the spine of your worldview. No matter how little sense it makes to you, it still has a grip.
So I cling on, hoping that at some point things will become clearer. Either that some benevolent purpose to all this suffering will be revealed to my monkey mind, or that my fears of a worse existence beyond are somehow put to rest, and I can finally let go of being.
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“The amount of pointless suffering that takes place in the animal kingdom alone seems to suggest that ethics were not of great concern. Nature is red in both tooth and claw. The inference would be that human experience is irrelevant to any creative power, and that our consciousnesses simply dissipate when our lives end. No pearly gates, no paradise, no eternal damnation. God, if he exists, does not much care for our individual existences.”
I agree totally. Why we insist on deceiving ourselves into believing that “the creator of the universe” cares about us is just beyond me. What ego we have. God cares, yet as six million Jewish citizens were tortured in death camps, well, I suppose he must have been napping.
We are part of the system, the process of life, the beautiful, wondrous and often brutal system in which all things flourish, suffer and die. We need to believe we are special to an imagined deity, that we are (gonna try not to die laughing here) “created in his image.” We humans resemble the creator of the universe. Ok. Yeah. Uh huh. Wow. We need to get over ourselves.
Who knows what comes next. I dont, you don’t, noone does, and yes, it is an intimidating concept. But to believe we hold a privileged position in the cosmos is . . . just silly.
If only I could have confidence in my own rationality. I fear bias could contaminate my perception – that I don’t want to believe any creator could sit in moral judgement over me because of my own guilt.
I believe with acts of human evil the rationalization is that God values ‘free will’, so it’s necessary to allow genocide to take place. I mean, where would we be without the capacity for a little mass murder? How could we possibly live meaningful lives without that freedom?
But that argument doesn’t really work for the animal kingdom. Much of the suffering animals cause each other is instinctive – it’s evolved behavior, rather than chosen cruelty. For example, when a group of sharks hunt larger species of whale, it can takes hours to finish. They swim up, tear off a chunk of flesh, and dart away again. All that time the whale is aware, in distress, slowly bleeding out as it swims on. Gradually being eaten alive. And that kind of suffering is built into this world. It’s an integral part of the system. I wonder if whales get to see those pearly gates in recompense for their travails?
It seems to me entirely possible that we’re created ‘in his image’. The ‘simulation argument’ in philosophy suggests that this world could likely be an ‘ancestor simulation’, created by some future civilization to replicate it’s past. Given the way computer tech is developing, it seems plausible. Of course that might mean that the creator we’re the image of wasn’t some divine source of all being, but just another ape with a computer curious to see what would happen.
I have to ask myself “What can I do, or what have I possibly ever done, to warrant a punishment of a vengeful god? All I personally can come up would be the commission of deliberately harmful acts of violence towards others, animals included. Those answers are subjective, based solely on my morals and values. So, in turn, I am trying to live a life that focuses just a bit more on compassion, sympathy and selflessness – giving. These attributes don’t come easily to me, but as I also struggle with decades of religious programming, guaranteeing an eternity of flames for failing to comply, I figure doing my best to create a little bit of goodness each day is all I can do. Should it not be good enough when it comes time to stand at whatever gate we arrive at after death, pearly or otherwise, at least I’ll be able to say, think or somehow convey the fact that “Hey – I did my best, and it wasn’t easy.”
I don’t know. Maybe I’m oversimplifying it, and to some extent I know I’ve thrown in the towel and really don’t care too much if my post-death fate includes additional punishment, but when I sit back, and like you, observe and analyze the cruelty that is designed in this system we call life on this third planet out from a common sun, I can’t see why my choice to try and be a softer, kinder, gentler version of the asshole I’ve spent my life being will mean I “go directly to jail without passing go and collecting $200.”
Where did morality originate? In a system awash with both love and hate, kindness and violence, life and death, where did morality and our sense of justice come from? Why do we assume murder is wrong, when it happens so casually and frequently? I’m not advocating it – I’m a ” moral” human, but the sharks don’t share my morality as they butcher prey – they simply need food. The spider has no morality as it injects the fly trapped in its web, it also is hungry. So is morality a divine characteristic granted us by a fellow in a white robe sitting on a cloud, or just something our evolved brains cooked up to help establish and maintain order and peace? I see no morality in the natural world, just the balance of living and dying. Yet I live in fear of punishment for failing to live up to standards that just possibly don’t even really exist, when I consider how things really work.
Sorry. I’m getting long winded. I just enjoy your observations as stated in your post, they’re things I’ve also pondered.
I suppose in my case I can’t honestly claim that I’ve done my best. Sometimes I try to be better, or at least less bad. But mostly I just go with whatever seems to be my passing mood at the time. Part of me wants to be better, but I find it so hard to keep caring about the well-being of others when my own life seems so pointless.
You don’t seem like someone who deserves to spend eternity writhing in agony. But then some religions do seem to cast rather a wide net on who is destined for damnation.
I think morality evolved to provide advantage among small kinship groups – solidarity and reciprocal altruism are often a winning strategy. On the other hand, in certain circumstances psychopathy can really pay off – hence it’s genetic survival. Ghengis Khan left an awful lot of descendants by raping and pillaging his way across Asia. The Mongols knew God was with them, as do most conquerors.
For me I suppose it makes sense to moderate my behavior somewhat in light of possible existential judgement. But I’m not going to put myself through any great struggle to attempt to placate a divine being I see no evidence for. I don’t think there’s anything I could do that would assuage my fear in any case – just part of a guilty conscience I suppose.
Don’t forget for a moment that there are people still being punished, tortured in death camps. Today it is just called jail and the citizens are uninformed of what really is going on. Most of the time, they are arrested based on race, gender, sexuality while a different person of a different race, gender, sexuality could commit the same crime and not be arrested. I left jail with a cracked skull, brain damage after being in a coma only to come home and proceeded to be sexually assaulted 158 times in a row. I am a homosexual though. I have heard the words said to my face “You need to learn a lesson.” Maybe it is corrective rape and a hate crime, maybe it is mass murder. Either way. I then had to give them my entire life savings of $10,000.
judgement, punishment, torment and eternal regret.
Those are all valid fears.
I fear staying alive.
I’ve been trying, wanting to commit suicide for 13 years. It is much worse than death being alive here. I am in a place far worse than hell. I have been forced to be alive the last 7 years although completely ready to have taken my life. I have no friends, no family. I do have unwanted visitors occasionally.
I greatly fear the anti-suicide party. They work only in self-interest and are ignorant. They would rather murder someone than let the same person take their life peacefully.
I fear after I die.
I live in a rather black & white, religious, overall stupid cartoon world. I do not want a funeral. I don’t even want the body to be found. These people are so morbid there is no way to get away from them.
Hi thehusk
I felt compelled to reply in the hopes that you find some solace in my words. I’m not going to start off with ‘cliched’ textbook answers that you probably already came across. I know because when I reached out years before, that was all I received and it actually added my want for an exit. I approach you in complete candor and unconditional friendship. But I also know that such words often cause a ‘repel’ reaction but I hope you give me just a few more moments of your time.
I have read through many of your previous posts. Although I do not have answers for many of the questions you (we) hold, I can definitely highlight what I know from reading your inputs. You are a natural ‘thinker’. If I were to describe you in just three words it would be ‘unhinged freewill thinker’. There is tremendous amount of intelligence behind your words. Unfortunately (for us), most people will minimize your heavy thoughts as ‘random ramble’ NOT because they dislike you, but they do not understand the message itself. The general mass simply do not know what they don’t know and they don’t even care to find out. They are followers not leaders. And anything that requires thinking is simply ignored and labeled ‘weird’. They love to label. When this gets to you on a personal level it can lead to ‘existential crisis’ and in my case, suicide attempt. Attempted twice.
Perhaps this is not the case with you. Perhaps you are cherished for your ideas and perspective of this world. Either way, that is your blessing and a curse in one. BUT, did you know that people like you shape this world? It is the (successful) outliers that shape the destiny of mankind. It is your depth of perspective that revolutionizes humanity.
I’m hesitant to give out direct suggestions. But ‘things’ won’t get clearer when you mix in ‘religion’ into your thought process. It usually opens another can of worms and more confusion/anger.
There is only you in this world. And it is UNIQUE and PRECIOUS. Your perspective has amazing clarity and depth. You must continue the struggle cause most won’t understand a word you say and often shy away from such notions. And it doesn’t matter what THEY say. I’m almost 40. My judgement of character gets better as I get older. I’m not saying I am great in any way but I can tell from the ‘complete idiot’ to ‘AMAZING but slightly lost’ people like yourself.
You sir, are a goldmine (to be discovered). You need to let the dirt roll off your shoulders, stop jabbering in places like this (because it does more harm), and go out and change the world. People WILL follow you. And so what if it doesn’t work out to the way you envision. You might realize that the beauty of it all was the journey itself. I wish I could meet up with you for a beer. Please direct all that ‘Professor X’ mind skills forward where it matters.
Love to read/write from you.
Lex
Hi Lex, thanks for commenting and reading my posts. I appreciate it. ‘Unhinged freewill thinker’ seems a fairly apt description (I may have to steal it for my bio).
I don’t really discuss this kind of thing at all irl, though I’m constantly listening to and reading the views of others on such subjects. I think most people never really feel the need to engage with it, and if they do encounter it they do so with a certain filter in place, protecting their worldview. I think perhaps that’s an adaptive response – why open yourself up to destabilizing thoughts? Unfortunately that can also lead to the stigmatization of those who do feel the need to ask awkward questions.
It’s a nice (albeit slightly concerning) thought, but I don’t think people like me shape this world. Possibly some who share similar ideas have a real impact. My own views have certainly been shaped by certain public figures. But I think they’re generally much calmer, more confident, with very different life experiences. I would say I’m the neurotic expression of such worldviews – the unsuccessful outlier. I absorb their ideas, jumble them around in a can, and integrate them into my own existential crisis. The ‘underground man’ of our time.
It’s very difficult for me to keep religious ideas out of my thought process. They have a deep emotional pull on me – perhaps because I took such ideas to heart very early on, or because our secular culture is still steeped in religious narrative. I find myself drawn back to such questions time and again, despite finding their exponents utterly unconvincing. I suppose I just don’t trust my own rationality – I fear I may be somehow deceiving myself, blinding myself to truth because of bias. And my guilty conscience leaves a lingering fear of judgement. I don’t trust my doubts.
Thank you for all your kind words. I will attempt to feel good about those I can make some claim to, without disputing all those I cannot. You may be right that my jabbering here is counter-productive, but I suppose it sometimes makes me feel a little less alone – it’s somewhere to put the unresolvable conflicts so my mind can disengage for a while. Unfortunately I think people skills are a fairly integral component of leadership, but I may yet find some way to have a positive influence on the world.