I don’t think it’s necessarily a guilty conscience – guilt is focused on the impact your actions have on others, and I can never know that. It’s probably more like shame. Although shame is usually centred around what others think of you, and apart from a couple of ex-therapists, no one knows.
The reality of it is, I have to look myself in the mirror every day, and know the things I’ve done (and the things a large part of me still wants to do.) And somehow live with myself. And I don’t know how to do that. Because my self-image feels unbearable to face up to. Acknowledging it leaves me with nothing but emptiness and despair. I am an irredeemably bad person, in a way that isolates me from everyone. I am not totally safe to be around people. I am not trustworthy. I have to manage myself. And that’s not a reality I want to live in. It’s not a life that holds any meaning. It would be better if it ended.
And if I was an actual psychopath then it wouldn’t be an issue. I would simply see petty human morality as beneath me, and go happily about my day. But I do have a conscience. I very much do care what people think. And I want to be able to see myself as a decent person, worthy of community, friendship, love. And I can’t. No matter what I do from this point on, I can’t see a version of myself that is fit to be involved in the lives of others. A version that is in any way “acceptable”.
I wouldn’t quite say that I’m trapped in a hell of my own creation, but possibly a kind of limbo. A between place, not quite dead or alive. And the logical response to realising that would be to kill myself, but I’m too much of a coward. And it would pull my family towards a similarly bleak existence, which they certainly don’t deserve. So I will once more take my sleeping pills, and wait for the reality to become fuzzy.
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Sorry for how you feel dude…it’s easy to forget, esp. with people who are intelligent here and write well, that there are serious, deep and painful feelings behind those words.
I think your guilt is preventing you from re-engaging with the world. It seems you feel you deserve to be punished for whatever you’ve done.
Everyone’s made their mistakes and have even been evil towards others. Fortunately I’ve never really crossed any of my own ethical lines, so I don’t really live with much regret in that area.
However everyone has their limits, a person can be pushed only so far, until they cross the line…I’m glad I’ve largely avoided fights with truly nasty people.
Bro the best thing I can recommend is to just move on with your life and be grateful that few if any know of your past. Others might not forgive you but you have to forgive yourself and just avoid doing whatever it is that you regret, again.
Be glad you’re ‘unknown.’ Imagine being a celeb and your life is an open book to millions of people. At least when your anonymous, you can continually reinvent yourself.
You can go to a new town, start a new life and have a new set of friends and just live like most normal people do.
You have chosen to paint yourself into a corner. If I did something horrible to someone, I mean next level stuff and regretted, I’d try to make it up to them if I could…I’d feel bad about it for a year or two but then I’d get over it.
I’d also be happy that nobody else would know about it but me and maybe that person….so I’d just start a new life, and live ‘straight.’ There is nothing more beyond that….unless you want to create more drama for yourself needlessly.
We all have our own reasons to be here. I think about suicide pretty much daily. In many ways I wish I was an only child and so once my parents passed away, there would be nothing to hold me back.
Ya the actual moment/process of ending one’s life is probably one of the scariest in our lives, esp. if we choose a way that isn’t medically assisted. However knowing the science behind it and seeing that it succeed with others before it, can give us some solace that it’ll work for us, whatever that ‘it’ is.
I guess if I had the ideal life, wife/kids/house, then I would’ve felt I “made it.” I wouldn’t be looking forward to old age, but would accept it gracefully and enjoy the last 2 or 3 decades I had left.
But my life didn’t go as hope and no matter what I did, all my plans to get ahead would fall apart. Anyways, I’m not going to babble on about it. The worst part was missing out on some great experiences along the way…if I had them, I would’ve felt like at least I have that notch on my belt, but I always missed out on the best things in life.
So eventually you just finally realize, while it may work out for others, it won’t for you. Despite the doom and gloom, I’ve given myself at least another decade to try to turn things around and if doesn’t get better, then I will definitely consider ending it by then (in my early 60s).
Life is short, try not to waste it, living in regret and sorrow. Try to turn it around and make it better and find happiness if you can. If after giving it some real effort, you’re not where you want to be, then for me the only answer is to “check out.”
While I’ve given myself a decade or so, if my life takes a nose-dive before that and I’m just sick of it all, then I’ll end it much sooner. There’s very little holding me here, mostly it’s family.
The thing is, it eats away at you. Yes, you’re doing it to yourself, but it’s not a conscious, intentional thing. Trying to forgive yourself when society won’t forgive you creates a kind of constant dissonance that emotionally distances you from those around you.
You’re forgetting that people can be azzholes. They won’t forgive you because people judge others to a standard of morality they don’t hold to themselves, so who are they to judge really?
You’re also just persecuting yourself daily for absolutely nothing, it’s unproductive, there is no pay-off in the end. You also have to live with yourself, in your head/body. So if you’re constantly at war with yourself, it’s going to take a major psychological toll.
That’s why I was saying you need to forgive yourself, if you are sorry for doing whatever you did. If you can make amends with others try to do so as a part of the self-healing process, whether others forgive you or not.
Bro nobody can lead you out of your current mental state except yourself. It seems you’ve created your own self-defeating feedback loop.
You should just write down the thoughts that keep you trapped in this place and ask yourself why you refuse to allow yourself alternative ways of looking at your situation, change or break that loop.
Perhaps you have a martyr complex. Maybe you feel you deserve to suffer, or to have others see you suffer and then offer you forgiveness.
The last place I think you should be looking (aside from those you wronged) is other people, because people are fickle. They have their own moods, some are evil and like to see others suffer.
So that’s why I say it always comes back to you to unlock your own mental prison and walk out of it. I’ve done bad things, but I’m not going to hate myself or cry about it for the rest of my life or beg forgiveness from anyone.
For myself I recognize I made some very stupid mistakes because of my life at the time. For instance one time I hung around with the bad crowd, because I thought they were cool but they got me in serious trouble. I learned a hard lesson and have never kept people like that in my life again, since I am not like those scummy people.
Your post was pretty general, so if you’re around a group of people that know your issue and they won’t forgive you, then you have no choice but to leave them.
I had a so-called friend from uni, who was ‘nice’ in the beginning but over time became more of a rotten person. In fact he created problems with every member in my group and eventually he left the group…in reality he knew nobody really liked him so he did the right thing and finally left.
Turns out he had a mental illness and anger issues, that he rarely ever spoke about but ofc that was the reason he had become a bad friend. We could’ve remained his friend if he apologized for his crappy behavior but he never did, so I’m glad he’s gone.
Coming back to the same point, if you’re in a group of people who despise you, then you have to leave it, since there is no way to ‘fix it’ and find new friends.
People can give the best advice they have, but you have to want change, otherwise you will persist in your feelings of misery ad infinitum. If I was in your shoes, I’d do all I could to get out of that hole and move on with your life.
All of us have problems, big and small. But we also have to survive and make a better life for ourselves, so that’s what we do-put aside such problems and move forward. Hopefully you are able to find a way to do that also.
Some of us simply don’t have the time for dwelling on certain issues either, because there is so much that needs to be done, just to live a ‘normal’ life, so we just put that shi.t aside and keep going.
It’s not specific people being assholes and refusing to forgive, no one else knows. It’s that society generally doesn’t forgive the kind of things I’ve done, for understandable reasons. And I can’t say people are wrong in that. I wouldn’t trust someone who’d done the things I’ve done, or want them involved in my life.
So whenever I get reminders of that reality, people talking about people like me, I internalize it, and I feel more cut off and isolated from others. I’m not mentally strong enough to maintain a self-image entirely independent of the views of others. When the whole world thinks your scum, it’s hard to convince yourself otherwise, or find motivations and life goals that don’t revolve around those same people.
If you’ve done some bad things but nobody else knows then consider yourself to be lucky.
Yes it’s true, there are some things that are ‘beyond the pale’ for society all the more reason to keep it secret and live a normal life.
What you’re dwelling on is how you “might” get treated IF anyone found out.
It’s kind of like the logical fallacy that pro-lifers make with Abortion, they treat a fertilized egg, one cell, as if it was a fully developed baby, that you’re now not allowed to terminate/abort, forgetting that a cell is not a baby, so you’re not killing a person.
You’re wrapped in thinking how you will be judged, now you live as if people already know and have isolated yourself as a result.
Let’s be clear the world doesn’t think YOU are scum, but people who’ve done bad or similar things to what you might’ve.
The world doesn’t know what you’ve done yet. I don’t care to know either, but if you got away with whatever it is, count your lucky stars and live normally.
The only one judging and holding you back is yourself. So the only one that can give you some peace and a happy life is you. I think perhaps it’s your own guilt that is destroying you and you can’t let go or give it up.
I recall when I was younger, my mistakes would feel ‘magnified,’ out of proportion to how others might see it. It was really quite stupid of me. While I held myself to a higher moral standard, I should’ve also accepted my fallibility, my human tendency to make mistakes and keep it in proportion.
In a way, it was also a form of arrogance on my part, which I didn’t realize at the time. I had an over-inflated sense of self-importance and that’s why my mistakes bothered me so much more.
It was all really foolish and finally I think once I hit my late teens, I realized what an idiot I had been and to just chill out, take my mistakes in stride.
Back to your situation, a lot of things in life come down to perception, which is malleable. You’re afraid of how you’ll be judged, but nobody knows your history yet you already treat others as if they know and hate you. It’s silly to make that leap of logic.
You’re stuck in a bad state and the way out is pretty easy. It just reminds me of me being stuck in my states when I was in my early teens and couldn’t see other solutions or ways out of my trap.
The difference is that I had nobody to guide or help me. Also we had no internet at the time, but today we can reach out to others and get feedback and possible solutions to our problems…so that’s an advantage you have that I didn’t. Hopefully it’ll help you see your way out of this issue.
Lastly I don’t really judge…if I met someone say in school, I’d treat them as I would any of my friends. If they had a dark past (without knowing the details) I’d be more careful around them, but as long as they acted fine, I wouldn’t treat them differently. So I’ll repeat, if nobody knows your past, then take it as a blessing and live your life.
I just think you’re discounting the need most of us feels for some degree of acceptance by others. Possibly it’s not something you feel yourself. If society (especially including people I like and respect) thinks people like me are scum, I find it hard not to take that to heart. Probably I’m very oversensitive to that, but still. It’s hard (for me) not to feel alienated and distanced from others when you know how they would view you if they knew the truth. Not saying it’s a productive or helpful reaction given my current reality. But I’m not sure how to not feel that way, or be affected by it.
Some people lead double lives; for instance, to their family; they appear “straight” but they are in the gay community and have relationships without their friends/family ever finding out, because of the hate that people still have for the LGBT community.
You can also read up on stories about people who are transsexuals, who’ve changed their bodies, went from male to female, or vice versa.
Some have married people and have never shared that past with them (that they were born a boy, became a girl, etc).
They live in ‘stealth mode.’ Because the risk is pretty high, if people found out they could be be.aten and some have even been ki.lled. So they’re living a lie, probably the biggest one, and pretending to be someone that they weren’t originally.
Before you even get to the point about debating having meaningful relationships and then worrying that they might judge you on your past, why not have them first? Cross that bridge later.
Or like the examples I gave, just live in ‘stealth mode.’ Many people do it; many other people have dark secrets of their own that they never tell others… because they want to have friends and a normal life.
You’re just limiting yourself to just a “what if” question. I won’t harp on this any longer, but you can have your cake and eat it too.
On the one hand, you wish for normal healthy relationships. On the other, you can’t because of your ‘evil deeds.’ So now you won’t have any at all, because of the fear they might find out the truth.
You can’t undo the past, so you must always carry that baggage with you. But what you’re overlooking is that nobody knows, so you’re worrying about nothing.
If having a meaningful relationship means you have to tell them the whole truth, then you can risk it. Some people are understanding, but most will not be.
I’ve made my own share of mistakes, but that’s my business and I don’t ever share it with anyone, aside from those who might already know… why shoot yourself in the foot?
Anyways, I hope you see your way out of this situation. I think you’re making it bigger than it seems and you’re limiting yourself artificially. Good luck whatever you decide.
True, but I think people “living a lie” are often pretty miserable, especially when those closest to them don’t know the truth. I also think it’s kind of messed up to become that closely involved with someone if you know they wouldn’t be able to accept the truth about you. How can you meaningfully consent to be with someone if they’re deceiving you about who they really are?
I suppose for me it’s a personality issue, in that my general instinct is to anticipate negative consequences down the road, and then try to avoid them. I guess that can somewhat distort my perception of reality at times.
It’s hard to know what I’d regret more – not attempting to establish relationships and spending my life alone, or trying to and then trapping myself into living a lie, or risking telling someone and my whole life falling apart as a result. I suppose that’s something I just have to work through.
But thanks, I appreciate that.
No problem. Well there’s also only so much one can say in terms of giving advice. Ultimately we have to take the next step or leap in life on our own.
In high school I suffered from low self-esteem, coming from a lower-income bkgd, feeling unattractive, having a rotten father, then having had to deal with some bullying at school, it all weighs on you.
It was absolutely crippling to my ego. Somehow I still managed to date some attractive girls. but I missed out on other incredible opportunities I really wanted but didn’t have the confidence to take advantage of, even though the girls showed me they were interested.
For me what I value most in life is having good relationships, esp. with hot girls. Otherwise, what is the point of life? I see nothing in being a thrill-seeker or getting fame, etc. Wealth would be nice, but hard to get. So long as you’re making enough to live a comfortable life, then that’s adequate.
I realize this post was a bit of a segue, but to illustrate the point that it is relationships that ultimately make us happy, feel that we belong and are connected, etc.
Without them, life lacks value imo. So it’s just one of the reasons I’ve personally felt suicidal and also not going as far as I should’ve income-wise, given my education and skills, and that’s something I’m still working on improving.
So I’m just saying if you also value relationships, get them however you can in a positive way…don’t look for perfection. Life is short, and there’s no point in living a life of loneliness. I think that’s why a lot of people just settle for less than for what they really wanted.
I’ve seen family members do that, settle but regret it later on because they knew they could’ve found someone better. Before you know it, you’re no longer young and then regretting not jumping on chances when you had them. Anyways, I’ll leave it at that, cheers.
Guilt is a creation of the mind. Don’t let it eat you. We all make mistakes, some of us really horrible ones. Forgiving yourself is hard, harder still when other people won’t. But learn to do it. You can’t control other people’s feelings but you can control your own life satisfaction and suicidal and guilt ridden to shit is no way to be alive. You’re worth forgiveness.