with our own depression?
i had wanted to become a therapist a while back, get my PsyD, and thought I’d learn psychology to help myself, and give myself purpose by helping others.
–if you’ve left the profession burnt out, i take it counseling did not help most ppl, nor did it help you lessen your own depression?
i had attended a psych panel and after listening to these apathetic jerks, i decided not to (plus grad school was $$$$ and it wasn’t free). the only one that had a heart and cared was the newest one to the profession. the longer someone was a therapist/counselor/etc, the more their hearts had turned to stone.
i would have taken the classes and gotten my degree had i gotten free tuition. but alas, no.
–did taking the psych classes help you in your own healing?
–does seeing all these other broken ppl and trying to help them help with your own healing?
–does counseling turn counselors/therapists into callous and uncaring ppl? or is it that some of them were never caring to begin with? what i saw and heard at the psych panel was insane. all but 1 didn’t give a fuck about their patients/clients. obviously you are not them. i am just wondering if what i saw was typical of therapists/counselors.
7 comments
I really appreciate the oppertunity to discuss all this, because I haven’t been able to since leaving the profession. To be clear and in context, I did not rise to the rank of therapist or psychologist. I once aspired to, but I stopped at undergrad. I worked as a social worker and a psych lead tech in a clinical setting, and I worked as a research assistant in an academic setting.
What that amounts to, in terms of ability or skill, has often been unclear. Most people mistake me for someone with a graduate degree, and I spent two years working as equals with people with PhDs, so it’s hard to ever be normal again after all that.
I’d say appreciating context, and how context colors things is one of the largest ways my education and experience has helped me.
I’ll take them one at a time though, education has taught me that if left to my own devises I’ll natter on about whatever and sometimes lose focus. Once or twice I’ve filled an essay requirement in that way, but outside of academics it isn’t particularly effective.
Did taking psych classes help in my own healing? Somewhat, I’d say that I went in thinking I’d be wiser and have figured more out about the human mind than I know now. But I learned so much about mechanics, neurology that I never would have sought out on my own.
I learned why some of what I know works does work, and some of that I discovered at the same time as my education. Meditation works, not for any spiritual reason at all but because the specific kind of meditation I was taught redirects blood flow to the frontal lobe. The frontal lobe makes sense of things, and facilitates a feeling of control and peace.
I think it taught me a lot about the type of people who become therapists, and I’ll come back to that.
The second one is actually the big one, the broken people I worked with changed my life. I started out working with what society sees as monsters, but by working closely with them for so long I learned they were broken people. Some were committed to being monsters, they didn’t want to grow and learn. I think that there are some people you can’t help was a really valuable lesson.
but I have a specific person I remember working with, and it was for a very short time because they didn’t need anything from me. They were under investigation, unfounded as it turned out. But this family was deeply broken, the father was going through one of the worst cases of depression I ever saw. Yet, his family was so supportive, he loved his kids and that was enough for hiim.
It was so changing for me, finding out that it was okay to try and make peace with ones own disfuction. Learning that there was safe harbor for broken people, that you could be broken but still be an active and vital person in your community….. I couldn’t have walked away from my career without that. I couldn’t be making peace with my disability without that.
I’ve met so many broken people like that, who don’t let it drag them down, or who carry on with a strength and courage that inspired me. That particular guy I was referencing, he broke both of his legs so bad he could hardly stand, after being a blue collar worker relying on his body and working legs to make a living. Often, I’ve thought that if someone with those challenges can survive and thrive, maybe I have a shot of it.
Going back to therapists, and people who work in the field. There’s a significant amount of them who are doing it to try and make peace with some part of themselves. Honestly, I was one of them. It was seeing that which pushed me, I didn’t want to have my whole life be about my brokenness.
There are also people who at least start out passionate. I got to work with a lot of people still doing their work requirement to get their licence. Those people still had much more spark and passion than I have found in professional therapists. Professional therapists on average are tired and burnt out. They are at least somewhat dissassociated from the pain around them. That’s why often “bad therapists” are trying to teach people to dissassociate, because it’s a powerful tool that they need to hold on.
but, the system relies on the passion and dedication people have. Overwork is common and expected. More and more I found apathy and complacency were not only common, they were required. Someone like me who doesn’t take “the funding isn’t there” as a valid answer for why trauma survivors are re-exposed to their abusers….
I saw so many other people ejected from the profession. What’s more, I saw how little effort went into preventing it. We were acceptable casualties. There was a sick machosism about enduring pain, and all the while rationalizing that it was for a good cause.
so, it’s a tough job, that’s the first thing, but add onto that it’s a tough job with a toxic culture.
I do wonder if it might be different somewhere else, if there are places the community is more supportive and helpful. I’ve seen how there are pockets of effective and compassionate people, and there are places where the disfunction has been going on so long and so unchecked it is preparing to destroy the organization operating it.
Which leads to the weird third category zombie services show up. I’m thinking specifically about a rehab program I worked for. It was so deeply toxic that everyone I knew who worked for them was planning their exit. Yet, we’re still in the depths of the opiod epidemic. Our state doesn’t believe in building their own programs for this sort of thing, so this organization that absolutely should have been shut down couldn’t be because even the terrible treatment they provided was better than no treatment.
The same applies to every public health agency in the state I live in. People accuse me of being very political, but when you have politicians who cry about the state of mental health but then make choices to divert resources away from getting people the help they need….. I don’t understand how to be objective reacting to that.
*sigh* I need to sit with it for a bit
so it’s a mixed bag. I wouldn’t have my current awful opinion of certain parts of the industry if I hadn’t of gone into it. At the same time, I’m proud of the work I did, and I realize that there is a great deal of variation within that industry.
I took an hour away, right there before that last paragraph, and I realized that I could have avoided discussing the internal corruption… as in I see that is possible. I’m not at a place, healing wise, where I’m ready to stop telling that story.
I actually did quite a bit of narrative psychology in the research phase, and it was helpful for my personal process. Everyone has a story to tell, and the providers that help get that story out are the ones who have the largest impact. Others don’t even have their personal story straight.
A part of my story will always be the time I spent trying to work in this industry. It was more of a removal of parts of myself, parts that felt I owed something to others due to my differences. I have good people around me now, people I believe at least are rooting for me, and that’s the best I could get where I’m at.
It’s a lot of pressure, being passionate, being motivated, having ambition. There are some parts of my story that are self inflicted. I’ve never fit, not even into the weird world of mental health professionals. It was the closest I came to fitting. Now I’ve given up trying to fit, and that’s a neutral fact in my recovery. I regret that I couldn’t keep trying, but over a decade of watching people experience the same degree of struggle from the outside, I can’t subject myself to it anymore.
I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. I’m still healing.
I really almost never do this, especially on something I wrote that is so long. but there were things I left out. Hey, I was shocked too, I thought I covered every base as well.
First off, grad school is expensive, and for psych grads that’s often with little benefit. I just couldn’t take on another $100k for what was at the time a $50k a year job. Second, the door to expensive grad is opened wide, the door to a grad that actually gets you status is narrower than all but two paths; med school and law school. Even so, if you make it in premed or pre law, I feel like there’s a 25% chance you can get into grad. There’s less than 3% that you can go down the path I wanted to go down.
Again, people often have secondary motivations. I wanted to change the field, become one of the people psych students read about in textbooks. I didn’t expect to get Freud famous, more like Theodore Sarbin. Most of his books are out of print, but I managed to get my hands on two. One was a gift from my research mentor, the other one was expensive, even for an out of print hardback. I’m still convinced that in 50 years he’ll be as famous as Skinner or Maslow.
and that’s part of the ego of academia. You get your research mentors famous. When you make your name, they get a huge boost, and it’s more rewarding than grandchildren, because who knows if your grandchildren will achieve, where as the people you mentor who go on to mentor WILL end up changing the industry.
but it took me a long time to realize how slim the chances were that I’d make it in academia. I didn’t even want a job in academia, I just wanted a PhD from a highly respected. Listen to me, even now “I just wanted”….. the ego, always my issue, my ego.
I was starting to believe I was as smart and accomplished as my research mentor made me feel. What I failed to account for is the massive amounts of people with similar ability, and the very small amount of seats. The average program has five to six, and it’s common for 500-800 applicants to go in for those seats. This is true in the top 50 programs in the country specifically within the field I wanted to work; clinical psychology.
and psychology is going the way of counseling. I’m still a bit bitter about that, but it wasn’t a personal slight it was in progress before I graduated high school. I didn’t want to just be a shoulder to cry on. I didn’t want to spend most of my life doing therapy. Some, yes. but 60 hours a week for 20 years? No thanks.
I missed your earlier question, whether it helps most people, or helps me. It does, help most people. It helps me. It doesn’t help me enough (in my subjective opinion). I think that it should set me back up to succeed, allow me to find a role in society. That’s what rehabilitation is about, to me.
Now it works really hard for addicts, especially if they have kids. The help is there for that specific subset. For everyone else? far too often it’s not available. When it is, sometimes the therapist is just punching a timecard. I take a very ill view of organizations like betterhelp….. because twice in my long journey I got therapy from that kind of provider. The therapist didn’t care. It was a job.
and again, that’s where the industry is going. I knew I could never delude myself into believing I was making a difference working for a for profit company. It seemed pretty likely that’s where I’d end up.
so I wanted something that was only on offer for a select few. I never was ready to compete on that level. Honestly, if I was, I would have gone into music, journalism, painting or the theater. So I was already “settling”, and when my “settling” option turned out to be just as limitting, just as competitive, and just as corrupt as the art world, my motivation and excitement faded away entirely.
right? a psych degree costs way more than what you get in return. negative ROI.
Oh I am well aware of the inner corruption and fuckedupness inside these places. I think that’s why we can’t heal- how can we heal when the ppl in charge of helping us or helping to healing us are sometimes way more fucked up than we are? Saw lots of passive aggressive fuckery, ineptitude, and plain dysfunction in several places. That’s one issue.
There’s places like you described where ppl have more cases than hours in the day, overworked underpaid. These ppl give you the shittiest care.
But what about ppl who do one on one private counseling? Are they also shitty or are they best when it comes therapy? I’ve never had the money for a private insurance (and where I was, the therapists who were covered under insurance- NONE were taking new patients, or appts were MONTHS in advance, which is ridiculous. So I haven’t had much experience with private insurance therapists.
Most of the ones I went to were the “free” ones, either volunteer or in patient at hospitals, or at the dysfunctional centers like the ones you described. I’ve been to a total of maybe like 5-6 of these places.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the ppl running these “help” centers are MORE fucked up than me and drive me MORE insane dealing with them. They’re either all fucked up, or too incompetent to get things done. And then ofc there’s the ones that don’t give a shit.
Anyhow, are private therapists the only ones where we can get actual help? i mean i did try one once, cash pay, but i couldn’t afford to keep it up even though she offered a discount. she was at least better than the other ones i’ve tried, but that’s not saying much considering all the other ones were so bad.
When they say “help is available” it’s so bullshit. There AREN’T enough ppl. You literally can’t get an appt to see anyone for MONTHS, and that’s IF they are “open to new patients”
–>Anyhow, are private independent therapists the only ones that are good / decent?
I’ve also met plenty of ppl who go to private insurance therapists who seem to have “mediocre” therapists. There’s very FEW ppl I’ve met who actually said they’ve found a GOOD therapist. And those took YEARS to find. Like finding a needle in a haystack.
So anyhow, I have no faith in counselors/therapists/etc. They seem as broken or more broken than me. And I have get been given any REAL ADVICE on how to either make my life better or think in a better way (that isn’t “just think happy thoughts” or the usual CBT, DBT etc). Like NONE of that has helped.
So…WTF do I do? That’s why I’m here on a suicide site. I feel like I’ve tried everything (more trying in the earlier years of my life, last few years I’ve just given up).
Also, no self help book has helped either. I haven’t heard or read anything that was of any REAL use.
I wonder just how many ppl are actually helped by therapists/counselors/etc. Do they actually help the majority of others? I don’t feel like they do bc they’re still broken.
Granted many of the ppl I spoke to weren’t private pay therapists, but none of the ones I got ever said anything that helped me. And nothing in self-help books either. Hell, all these counselors spit out the same generic copy-paste crap in these self-book books and “scripts” they’re told to say (like when you call a crises or suicide hotline). Nobody say anything in the least bit helpful.
“Now it works really hard for addicts, especially if they have kids. The help is there for that specific subset. For everyone else? far too often it’s not available. When it is, sometimes the therapist is just punching a timecard.”
–ah that’s what i figured. there’s so many drug and alcohol programs, and programs for ppl with kids. but single with no kids and dealing with shit that *isn’t* related to drugs or alcohol, well you’re SOL.
–i mean, it’s not just the availability or lack of enough resources/staff. there’s also the question if the current methods and practices ACTUALLY help, which I do not think so. everything is “for profit” in the USA. even the “not for profit” organizations. think about it- a healthy patient generates no income. so therefore industry has an incentive to NOT CURE anyone of anything, only to keep ppl coming back.
Hell, I’m not sure the AA places help either. I see so many stories of ppl coming and in out of those places, dozens of times. If those places actually helped, they wouldn’t need to come back 12x. I really don’t think places are designed to actually CURE us. Jaded view of life, yes, but that seems like the reality. ALL of those organizations make money, or get funding, for ppl constantly coming back. If you actually CURED anyone or gave actual HELP, no more clients, no more patients, no more $$$, no giant industry.
I don’t think I’m going to find someone who can ACTUALLY help me. There’s just very FEW good therapists out there. And the few that are good, are either totally booked months out, or not accepting new patients, or requires good insurance or cash pay that I don’t have.
IDK if anyone can help me. I mean, I don’t have the insurance or money or patience to keep trying therapist after shitty therapist. It’s not for a lack of trying (at least in the past I did, not lately tho).
And even if I did have the cash or insurance, would I find a GOOD therapist? I doubt it. I’ve only met a handful of ppl who tell me they finally managed to find a GOOD therapist.
i think the “help”/therapy/counseling/social work arena is so broken in America. it’s programs are underfunded, understaffed, underpaid, under trained staff. hell, i’m sure the “training” is often wrong too. the whole “help” category is woefully inadequate.
but that’s America for ya. what makes for better peons than those who are poor, sick, and teethering on the edge? those hanging on a thread won’t riot, revolt, and demand changes and better policies for the poor and suffering.
sigh, this thing called life is so fucking depressing…