Interesting image…great title. Forbidden fruit tastes sweeter as they say.
But yes contravening certain taboos/social mores is not worth the suffering that comes after…and for the ‘wrong-doer’ they only realize after the fact (if caught).
What’s even worse than putting oneself in a bad light with those around them and opening oneself up to punishment, is that if you commit certain crimes and go to jail…you can end up dead.
Because dirty, rotten low-lives, murderers still think they’re morally superior to those who break taboos and feel justified in taking that person’s life.
Thanks, the title is kind of ripped off from a book by David Benatar. The context is also somewhat similar to antinatalism, except that, having been born, I kidded myself into trying to derive a positive out of my existence. Foolish delusions of grandeur. No wonder I failed. Should have known better given the history of my kind- lowest of the low, the bottom feeders.
My forbidden fruit was not in the extreme as taboos/social mores go. Just that I wasn’t equal to the aspiration I held on to. Turns out the fruit was forbidden only to me, not to others around me for they had deserved it all along.
No problem…interesting info. Hmm, I think there’s a fallacy in your reasoning that you’re holding onto. You’re no less than anyone else and just as deserving of others to what life has to offer.
Ya I get some people may come from disadvantaged backgrounds, I’d include myself, but I don’t believe it is your fate.
For instance other people in my situation (that I know) come from a lower socioeconomic bkgd but they are definitely now in the middle class. Except for me, I’m one of those who fell through the cracks because of my crappy life and things that happened along the way to ruin it…otherwise I would’ve ‘made it’ too.
I think I gave the wrong impression by “lowest of the low, the bottom feeders”. I didn’t mean it in an economic sense. I got a pretty secure middle class setting. I meant belonging to the lowest in terms of personal achievement. Fucked up despite being dealt a fair hand so I have no external hook to hang my guilt upon. I too fell through the cracks, if I interpret your phrase correctly.
But hey, so nice of you to assess me as worthy of what life has to offer. As the saying goes, you know you and I know me:)
Oh ok…well when I was a kid, achievement meant everything to me…but at this age all I care about is money and pretty girls, that’s all I want in life. lol
I think for some ‘personal failure’ is a shot to the core of their being…it was for me in my teen years…so I struggled to get my education and excel at everything I did.
I lost a friendship because one of my friends was feeling insecure for not getting his degree and he was overtly envious of those (like me) that did get our degree.
I realized later that it was a thread I shouldn’t have pulled on, but in fact I was trying to make him feel better about not achieving and that it didn’t matter as much as he thought.
But to him, anyone that had a higher education was arrogant/obnoxious and thought they were superior to him….I told him I wouldn’t hang out with people who I felt ‘superior’ too…but it was just too much for him.
He was an idiot to throw away a good friendship over his own insecurities…but in hindsight he was a bit of a lowlife person anyways and it’s another story on its own.
Anyways in your case, it seems fairly solvable…maybe do a degree or achieve whatever it is you feel that you missed out on…if you feel it’d improve your self-esteem.
I’ve known of people who did the wrong career, later they became doctors in their 50s for instance and made a ton of money. Achieving doable goals isn’t easy, but it’s just a matter of willpower and sticking to it.
Let’s say you wanted to be a professor, but just ended up being a miner…so long as you have a career, you’re not a burden on anyone, then you’ve already achieved something, even if it wasn’t the original goal.
Trying to start your own business is a lot harder than it looks so there are some things that aren’t within reach of the average person…better to accept it at that point and move on.
No problem, I feel any person is worthy and deserving of a good life, so long as they’re not an evil person.
It was considerate of you to go as far as you did to accomodate your friend’s insecurities, and as you mention, in the end he was all the more of a low-life for losing a friendship he didn’t deserve to begin with. Good on you tho. I know wouldn’t go out of my way to quell someone’s envy, even tho I try not to act superior. Guess I’m just too cold to try fixing others.
Hell, I like your better-late-than-never outlook about going back to school. Who knows maybe I’ll come around to revive my career some day and join the upwardly mobile folk. It’s unlikely I’ll lay hands on myself anytime soon so might as well try making some little pathetic dent in the universe while I can.
Thanks-indeed, he had a chance to reorient his thinking on this issue. He was convinced that well educated people were snooty…I proved that we weren’t and he refused to accept it.
He also didn’t think it was possible to be proud of one’s accomplishments without being arrogant.
It actually just made him seem more petty and infantile and ofc jealous of those who achieved.
Still I wouldn’t have ended our relationship over that. It’s like arguing over a movie or philosophical idea and then ending a friendship over an irrelevant disagreement.
But then what kind of a friend is he that he’d end the relationship over a difference of opinion? Clearly not a very good one to begin with.
And I do agree with you to an extent, I thought I was doing him a favor but he just chose to attack me instead…I was just better off letting him rant about educated people and bit my tongue and let it go. But then chances are we might’ve found a different reasont to argue and then part ways so this was probably bound to happen anyway.
Ya glad to here…if you have a goal you’d like to achieve and try to get ahead, you have nothing to lose by trying and if you fail, so what? At least you gave it a chance.
I too have some goals and am trying to get ahead in life…things didn’t go my way when I was younger but I’ll keep plugging away and hopefully get to a better level for myself.
Having definite life goals is half the battle won I’d say. You have something tangible to look forward to, way to go, keep at it. I only got shifty daydreams rn some of which so ridiculous that they’d put me in a psych ward. But I’ll fix me. I’ll have to fix me cause I’ve to live until there’s no possible collateral damage.
Well it starts with the daydreams, wanting your life to be better…to find your s/o, to travel or build a business.
I recall my very first stab at business was a laughable failure…I called the CEO of a very large corp and pitched an idea…I was so nervous on the phone that I muddled my way through it. But he was professional and ofc claimed they thought of it already.
After that I became smoother through trial and error…I did land a major deal with another chain, but after the initial shipment they cut me off at the knees…they found some error, to which I offered a very good solution, but these “big shot” guys are so arrogant, that they don’t even want to give you the time of day, even though my product was selling extremely well, which they admitted.
Anyways this company is known for effing over their suppliers…so whatever. It could’ve set me up for life and I think I gave up on it too easily, since I could’ve sold it elsewhere. Trouble is that when you’re already struggling in your own life, it’s hard to devote time/energy on a side project and see it through…but in hindsight I should’ve kept going, it would’ve had some success for sure.
But as I’m in my early 50s now, that fire in my to succeed at something is fading out…I just don’t care any more. I mean I am going to keep trying but I feel even if I do succeed, I’ll have a comfortable retirement and be an old useless fu.ck….when you’re young you’re broke so that limits you. When you’re old, you might have money but you’re not young anymore so pretty young girls won’t want you…I’m screwed no matter what I do.
You sound like you could be younger, which means you still have lots of time to improve your life…don’t be like me and look back in regret, wishing you made much wiser use of your time and youth when you had it. 🙂
Well, the experiences you share indicate you’ve had quite a bit of fire in your belly for hustling your way to the top. I’ve never been a hustler- more of a scavenger grabbing for leftover opportunities. I’m older in my head than you’ll ever be because my outlook as of now is incredibly cynical.
Didn’t mean to wallow in self-pity. I take heart from your positive vibe and hope to end this year on an ascendant note, even if hoping against hope. We’ll see.
2024- year of the dragon!
Wishing a great new year ahead for you 🙂
Thanks kindly Yoges…wishing a great year for you as well. 🙂
Ya I was hoping to strike that one good deal that’d set me up…I actually have a ton of other ideas, but most of them require a lot of money to get off the ground.
If I had some very well off friends I might’ve been able to make some of them happen.
But when you’re on the ‘bottom’ like us, it’s hard to break through that glass ceiling unless you get very lucky or ofc have the right contacts.
Being a scavenger is fine too…heck there are people who build businesses on scavenging, think of recycling and scrap yards or people who fix cars/houses and re-sell them for a profit.
So long as you’re doing ‘something’…rather than simply dreaming then you’ll be advancing your life.
The sad part about all of this is that I did have the intelligence to get ahead, simply by job-hopping, but I was wasting my time trying to escape the rat-race and I should’ve realized sooner, the ‘conventional way’ is the best way for most of us…few ever ‘win the lottery.’
Additionally I had so many massive problems in my life, dragging me back, that I should’ve taken a ‘big picture’ view sooner to solve those issues…most of it comes back to just getting a well paying job and it would’ve just cleaned up everything and improved my reputation with friends/family…and I probably would’ve gotten married too.
Focusing on ones dreams too much (like I did) while ignoring the terrible state of your own reality is a tragic blunder. I ofc figured it out and improved our situation (myself and my mom) but I burned up a lot of years for nothing.
Anyways we can’t do anything about the past, except to try not to repeat the same errors. In my case I have a smaller time-window but while I didn’t get ‘rich’ I have been lucky in smaller ways many, many times…so hopefully I still have a bit of luck left in the tank to catapult me to the next level.
Actually now I’m not too far from where I want to be–middle class. Making a bit more income and finding a good s/o would solve it and we could have a reasonable comfortable life.
I desperately wanted to be free of wage-slavery, and I’ll always strive for that, but if I can upgrade to nicer ‘place’ and have a bit more freedoms and perks than now, I’ll call that a (minor) win.
11 comments
Interesting image…great title. Forbidden fruit tastes sweeter as they say.
But yes contravening certain taboos/social mores is not worth the suffering that comes after…and for the ‘wrong-doer’ they only realize after the fact (if caught).
What’s even worse than putting oneself in a bad light with those around them and opening oneself up to punishment, is that if you commit certain crimes and go to jail…you can end up dead.
Because dirty, rotten low-lives, murderers still think they’re morally superior to those who break taboos and feel justified in taking that person’s life.
Thanks, the title is kind of ripped off from a book by David Benatar. The context is also somewhat similar to antinatalism, except that, having been born, I kidded myself into trying to derive a positive out of my existence. Foolish delusions of grandeur. No wonder I failed. Should have known better given the history of my kind- lowest of the low, the bottom feeders.
My forbidden fruit was not in the extreme as taboos/social mores go. Just that I wasn’t equal to the aspiration I held on to. Turns out the fruit was forbidden only to me, not to others around me for they had deserved it all along.
No problem…interesting info. Hmm, I think there’s a fallacy in your reasoning that you’re holding onto. You’re no less than anyone else and just as deserving of others to what life has to offer.
Ya I get some people may come from disadvantaged backgrounds, I’d include myself, but I don’t believe it is your fate.
For instance other people in my situation (that I know) come from a lower socioeconomic bkgd but they are definitely now in the middle class. Except for me, I’m one of those who fell through the cracks because of my crappy life and things that happened along the way to ruin it…otherwise I would’ve ‘made it’ too.
I think I gave the wrong impression by “lowest of the low, the bottom feeders”. I didn’t mean it in an economic sense. I got a pretty secure middle class setting. I meant belonging to the lowest in terms of personal achievement. Fucked up despite being dealt a fair hand so I have no external hook to hang my guilt upon. I too fell through the cracks, if I interpret your phrase correctly.
But hey, so nice of you to assess me as worthy of what life has to offer. As the saying goes, you know you and I know me:)
Oh ok…well when I was a kid, achievement meant everything to me…but at this age all I care about is money and pretty girls, that’s all I want in life. lol
I think for some ‘personal failure’ is a shot to the core of their being…it was for me in my teen years…so I struggled to get my education and excel at everything I did.
I lost a friendship because one of my friends was feeling insecure for not getting his degree and he was overtly envious of those (like me) that did get our degree.
I realized later that it was a thread I shouldn’t have pulled on, but in fact I was trying to make him feel better about not achieving and that it didn’t matter as much as he thought.
But to him, anyone that had a higher education was arrogant/obnoxious and thought they were superior to him….I told him I wouldn’t hang out with people who I felt ‘superior’ too…but it was just too much for him.
He was an idiot to throw away a good friendship over his own insecurities…but in hindsight he was a bit of a lowlife person anyways and it’s another story on its own.
Anyways in your case, it seems fairly solvable…maybe do a degree or achieve whatever it is you feel that you missed out on…if you feel it’d improve your self-esteem.
I’ve known of people who did the wrong career, later they became doctors in their 50s for instance and made a ton of money. Achieving doable goals isn’t easy, but it’s just a matter of willpower and sticking to it.
Let’s say you wanted to be a professor, but just ended up being a miner…so long as you have a career, you’re not a burden on anyone, then you’ve already achieved something, even if it wasn’t the original goal.
Trying to start your own business is a lot harder than it looks so there are some things that aren’t within reach of the average person…better to accept it at that point and move on.
No problem, I feel any person is worthy and deserving of a good life, so long as they’re not an evil person.
It was considerate of you to go as far as you did to accomodate your friend’s insecurities, and as you mention, in the end he was all the more of a low-life for losing a friendship he didn’t deserve to begin with. Good on you tho. I know wouldn’t go out of my way to quell someone’s envy, even tho I try not to act superior. Guess I’m just too cold to try fixing others.
Hell, I like your better-late-than-never outlook about going back to school. Who knows maybe I’ll come around to revive my career some day and join the upwardly mobile folk. It’s unlikely I’ll lay hands on myself anytime soon so might as well try making some little pathetic dent in the universe while I can.
Thanks-indeed, he had a chance to reorient his thinking on this issue. He was convinced that well educated people were snooty…I proved that we weren’t and he refused to accept it.
He also didn’t think it was possible to be proud of one’s accomplishments without being arrogant.
It actually just made him seem more petty and infantile and ofc jealous of those who achieved.
Still I wouldn’t have ended our relationship over that. It’s like arguing over a movie or philosophical idea and then ending a friendship over an irrelevant disagreement.
But then what kind of a friend is he that he’d end the relationship over a difference of opinion? Clearly not a very good one to begin with.
And I do agree with you to an extent, I thought I was doing him a favor but he just chose to attack me instead…I was just better off letting him rant about educated people and bit my tongue and let it go. But then chances are we might’ve found a different reasont to argue and then part ways so this was probably bound to happen anyway.
Ya glad to here…if you have a goal you’d like to achieve and try to get ahead, you have nothing to lose by trying and if you fail, so what? At least you gave it a chance.
I too have some goals and am trying to get ahead in life…things didn’t go my way when I was younger but I’ll keep plugging away and hopefully get to a better level for myself.
Having definite life goals is half the battle won I’d say. You have something tangible to look forward to, way to go, keep at it. I only got shifty daydreams rn some of which so ridiculous that they’d put me in a psych ward. But I’ll fix me. I’ll have to fix me cause I’ve to live until there’s no possible collateral damage.
Well it starts with the daydreams, wanting your life to be better…to find your s/o, to travel or build a business.
I recall my very first stab at business was a laughable failure…I called the CEO of a very large corp and pitched an idea…I was so nervous on the phone that I muddled my way through it. But he was professional and ofc claimed they thought of it already.
After that I became smoother through trial and error…I did land a major deal with another chain, but after the initial shipment they cut me off at the knees…they found some error, to which I offered a very good solution, but these “big shot” guys are so arrogant, that they don’t even want to give you the time of day, even though my product was selling extremely well, which they admitted.
Anyways this company is known for effing over their suppliers…so whatever. It could’ve set me up for life and I think I gave up on it too easily, since I could’ve sold it elsewhere. Trouble is that when you’re already struggling in your own life, it’s hard to devote time/energy on a side project and see it through…but in hindsight I should’ve kept going, it would’ve had some success for sure.
But as I’m in my early 50s now, that fire in my to succeed at something is fading out…I just don’t care any more. I mean I am going to keep trying but I feel even if I do succeed, I’ll have a comfortable retirement and be an old useless fu.ck….when you’re young you’re broke so that limits you. When you’re old, you might have money but you’re not young anymore so pretty young girls won’t want you…I’m screwed no matter what I do.
You sound like you could be younger, which means you still have lots of time to improve your life…don’t be like me and look back in regret, wishing you made much wiser use of your time and youth when you had it. 🙂
Well, the experiences you share indicate you’ve had quite a bit of fire in your belly for hustling your way to the top. I’ve never been a hustler- more of a scavenger grabbing for leftover opportunities. I’m older in my head than you’ll ever be because my outlook as of now is incredibly cynical.
Didn’t mean to wallow in self-pity. I take heart from your positive vibe and hope to end this year on an ascendant note, even if hoping against hope. We’ll see.
2024- year of the dragon!
Wishing a great new year ahead for you 🙂
Thanks kindly Yoges…wishing a great year for you as well. 🙂
Ya I was hoping to strike that one good deal that’d set me up…I actually have a ton of other ideas, but most of them require a lot of money to get off the ground.
If I had some very well off friends I might’ve been able to make some of them happen.
But when you’re on the ‘bottom’ like us, it’s hard to break through that glass ceiling unless you get very lucky or ofc have the right contacts.
Being a scavenger is fine too…heck there are people who build businesses on scavenging, think of recycling and scrap yards or people who fix cars/houses and re-sell them for a profit.
So long as you’re doing ‘something’…rather than simply dreaming then you’ll be advancing your life.
The sad part about all of this is that I did have the intelligence to get ahead, simply by job-hopping, but I was wasting my time trying to escape the rat-race and I should’ve realized sooner, the ‘conventional way’ is the best way for most of us…few ever ‘win the lottery.’
Additionally I had so many massive problems in my life, dragging me back, that I should’ve taken a ‘big picture’ view sooner to solve those issues…most of it comes back to just getting a well paying job and it would’ve just cleaned up everything and improved my reputation with friends/family…and I probably would’ve gotten married too.
Focusing on ones dreams too much (like I did) while ignoring the terrible state of your own reality is a tragic blunder. I ofc figured it out and improved our situation (myself and my mom) but I burned up a lot of years for nothing.
Anyways we can’t do anything about the past, except to try not to repeat the same errors. In my case I have a smaller time-window but while I didn’t get ‘rich’ I have been lucky in smaller ways many, many times…so hopefully I still have a bit of luck left in the tank to catapult me to the next level.
Actually now I’m not too far from where I want to be–middle class. Making a bit more income and finding a good s/o would solve it and we could have a reasonable comfortable life.
I desperately wanted to be free of wage-slavery, and I’ll always strive for that, but if I can upgrade to nicer ‘place’ and have a bit more freedoms and perks than now, I’ll call that a (minor) win.