I have this constant longing for a relationship. And I don’t think I’m capable of being in one. Not just right now, but ever. I don’t think there’s anything I can do to become someone that anyone would want to be with. And that’s the part that really sucks – the hopelessness. When I was young I could tell myself a positive narrative about the things I lacked in life. That I’d grow as a person, overcome my difficulties and get there in the end. And that puts your mind at ease. It allows you to be ok with it. Whereas now I still have this longing, combined with the recognition that there’s no way of fulfilling it. So it just sticks in my mind, circling round and round, making it hard to sleep. There’s nothing I can do to make it “ok”, there’s nothing I can tell myself I’ll do in future to resolve it. It’s basically just a loop of “You feel like you need this in order to be content? Well, tough shit!”
The closest I could get would be to deceive someone into thinking that I’m a different person – that I’m decent. And I don’t want that. I want to actually love someone, rather than just using them to abate my needs. And that means caring about their wellbeing as much as I care about my own. I don’t want to trick someone I care about into loving me when I know that no one who knew the truth would want anything to do with me. The most caring thing I could do for anybody would be to stay away from them.
It’s hard to know how significant culture is to the degree this disrupts my mind. It seems like all of modern culture is focused around the idea of love. If it were the middle ages, I daresay I’d be in a monastery somewhere convinced that even having such thoughts was part of the Devil’s temptations, and furiously trying to pray them away, in the reassuring knowledge that doing so would be rewarded with eternal peace.
But it’s not. “God is dead”, and the only thing left for most people to focus on is relationships & family. As the Beatles declared, “all you need is love.” I’m not sure if they addressed what happens when that’s not possible (“Eleanor Rigby”, perhaps?) I guess you’re just fucked, as far as modernity is concerned. Maybe all that remains is to detach entirely from the idea of a self, who has needs, wants etc.
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It’s something I debate a lot, whether I’m someone who should be speaking about it. But I did long for it, when I didn’t have it. I can’t deny, there are benefits.
Love whatever is there to be loved, even if it’s only yourself. I was going to frame it all with Vonnegut, Psychology and Buddhism. Turns out, sourcing doesn’t matter that much. Be honest, you weren’t going to go check my sources. You want to love something, that’s the longing. Maybe it can’t be filled in the way you want, okay, that might be a conflict that’ll never be.
Sometimes I see a plain brick wall, and it seems to me it’s crying out for a mural…. but it isn’t mine now is it? So I can’t very well paint one. Well, I could, it would be graffiti, but that’s not the kind of person I am. Point is, that’s living in society, we can’t gratify our every desire.
Then there’s the alternative, I feel it’s important to see that. The alternative is to let that perverse desire fester. This isn’t an idle activity. Eventually something will come of it, and it probably won’t be good. Maybe it’ll just be more harm to you. Worst case though, it might be harm to others.
So I think if these thoughts are unavoidable, are obtrusive, it might be something you might want to look at, for your health, and for the health of those around you. If on the other hand you can redirect, find a way to be kind to yourself. That’s the better path. Love doesn’t have to be romantic. Tomorrow is my dog park day, last week this little puppy came up to me and I rubbed it’s belly for a few minutes, and I watched kids play with the dogs, pure joy. Being a part of something, even in such a small way is better.
Think I’m more longing for the romantic kind of love than an effortful variety that you decide to enact. I don’t feel capable of loving anything much right now, especially not myself. Can’t see that really changing, but who knows. I’d likely give any sources a quick scan, but the chances of my understanding their relevance, let alone adopting their logic, are probably low.
I think if we’re going to analogise about graffitiing brick walls, my situation might be closer to knowing that you would never be able to afford to purchase your own brick wall to ethically do a mural on, no matter how hard you worked. It’s not that I can’t gratify my every desire, it’s more that I know I can’t gratify the only significant desires I have.
Not sure I would label this particular desire as perverse, though others I have would certainly qualify. Seems pretty natural, overwhelmingly accepted throughout society, the centre of pretty much all modern culture as I mentioned. I think it would be wrong to try to act on it for fairly unique reasons, but the desire in question is relatively benign (there’s far worse things that pass through my mind on a regular basis.) Also don’t really know what it means to let it “fester”. The desire exists. I don’t think it’s going anywhere. I can’t see anything coming of it, other than ever-increasing depression and despair. I highly doubt that at some point I’ll decide to go to the huge amount of effort required to con some poor woman into thinking I’m worthy of love. Like I said, that’s not what I actually want.
Don’t know what “looking at it” would really involve in this case either. Don’t know if therapy to let go of basic human drives is really a thing. Doubt it would be effective if it was. You’re right that love doesn’t have to be romantic. I love my family, my parents and my sister, for whatever that’s worth, including our family dog. But that’s not what this is about. This post is more about wanting a one-on-one relationship with someone who wants to be with you, rather than caring about the people you owe your life and past happiness to at a distance.
I have the opposite problem. In a relationship that I can’t fully appreciate
why can’t you appreciate?
I suppose just being in a relationship doesn’t necessarily fulfil that need to feel connected to someone. I daresay your situation is less lonely and I’m sure there are plenty of other benefits, but in terms of just meeting that longing, you may not be much better off.
if someone is with the right person, then yes, it should fulfill that need to connect to someone. the problem these days is that many ppl are a couple, but they’re not with the right person. not saying that’s the case with Plainwhite, idk what his situation is.
I know SO many couples who are with someone they don’t love. Most they settle for someone bc they don’t want to be alone/can’t get the ones they want. In those cases, no, ofc they don;t fulfill that need. But if it’s real love, then it should, bc that person is not only your lover but your friend, someone who knows you and understands you and who you can confide in. There are many couples I know who won’t confide in each other and tell the other certain things. In those cases, ofc they feel lonely and unconnected.
Yeah, I’m sure there are benefits to those kinds of relationships over being completely alone (financial benefits, physical affection etc.), but they probably don’t go far in terms of bridging that longing for a deeper connection.
I think you’re just stuck in your own echo chamber OP….it’s kind of like the fantasizing we do about some pretty girl we like. For instance back in uni, there was a girl I liked at the gym…every time I’d go there, doing my laps, weights, etc…we’d check each other out every so often.
It was obvious there was something there between us. Finally I decided to break the ice with her one day…I asked her about the weights or something and it was awkward. Guess what? Never saw her again, at least at the times I worked out.
I blew my chance…I was hoping she’d give me one more shot…I was going to apologize and keep it really chill…but just didn’t see her.
So what I mean by this is that you have all these scenarios in your mind, but you haven’t even gotten to the point of talking to someone.
Sometimes relationships are dead easy….I’ve had some cute girls show they were very into me and had some fun with them…other times it’s been hard to get a number.
What I mean is that you need to put aside all your self-doubts, things you don’t like about yourself or your past deeds and let the woman decide.
Now for me I have my own redlines with people that I don’t cross but I’m also forgiving with a lot of things, because I’ve made my share of mistakes too.
Think about women who write love-letters to convicts and actually date/marry them after. Not to say you’d want to date someone like that…but that people can surprise you at what they’re willing to forgive, who they’re willing to date. Some of them even see these prisoners are victims.
What you need to do is hit on like 100 women/girls, maybe 10 might show interest and maybe 1 or 2 might want to date you. Then you tell them your whole sob-stories after and let them decide if you feel you need to be honest with them.
Don’t forget people also come with their own baggage…I can promise you this, as for me and yourself, nothing will change for us while we’re sitting in our rooms typing on a computer. We need to get out there, meet people and then you’ll have some new experiences in your life which might be healthy for you (and me).
Ofc dressing well, being fit, having a good attitude goes a long way as well.
You can choose to keep sitting in your room another 5, 10, 20 years with the same thoughts running around in your head or you can do something to better your life.
In my case, let’s say I can maybe date/marry a girl within my community….I had preferred to find someone on my own, but ofc that hasn’t worked out and I’m getting older.
I’ve resisted this forever because I was also trying to find someone I could fall in love with…that I consider attractive. But my life’s sucking atm and has been for decades…I don’t have a ‘little black book’ like they did in the old days….so I have no fallback plan except for this.
Had I done this like two decades ago, with the extra income I would’ve been in a better place….my dad did something similar and had a good life financially and he explained it wouldn’t have been possible to have his house and cushy life without his wife also working.
I think I’ll probably end up cheating on her in the future…I mean she’s pretty and has a good income but she’s not the type of girl I’m into. Still given my bad situation, I think I’d be a total idiot to pass this up…assuming she’s interested in me and that’s not a done deal either.
Speaking of the Beatle’s song….I’ve been thinking of Mariah Carey’s “Can’t live if living is without you” song pretty literally.
What’s the point of living if you can’t have the person you really want to be your spouse. Why settle for anyone else? I guess romance can fade in time, but I believe if you have a good connection with someone it’s possible to have a great long-term relationship.
My only worry would be if she’d be the one to cheat…because although I haven’t dated a lot, I’ve always gone for quality over quality…and I’d be worried about her leaving for someone else. But at the same time, I’m not one to try to get in their way either. Still I’d take that chance, if it means I had a good few years with a great girl.
typo: quality over quantity…meaning when I’ve dated they’ve always been very pretty or hot…and I can’t settle for less.
Soda, I know we’ve disagreed on this topic before, so I doubt we’ll see things in the same way here. The key issue for me is I don’t think I can “let the woman decide”. There’s crucial things about myself that I don’t think I can risk telling anyone (except a therapist.) They’re things I wouldn’t expect even a decent person to keep confidential, and if they got out they could destroy my life (and severely damage the lives of my family.)
On top of that is the knowledge that very few would be able to accept it. We really are probably talking about women similar to those who seek relationships with convicts. Who, though I don’t wish to be judgemental, are largely delusional (at least in cases involving those who’ve done terrible things), or desperate. And I don’t think I could love someone like that – who didn’t have a strong enough grasp on reality to really understand me. I should’ve probably added a caveat to my post along the lines of “I don’t think I’m capable of loving someone desperate/deluded enough to love me.”
So telling anyone would be a very high risk, with a very low chance of even finding someone willing to accept it, and an even lower chance of that person being morally sane if they did accept it.
Which says nothing about casual dating, hook-ups, whatever else. Meeting people, having new experiences, bettering yourself etc. is indeed good and healthy. It just won’t fulfil the thing I’m actually longing for – to feel that kind of deep mutual connection with someone you really care about, who you wouldn’t want to deceive or use.
Indeed I think we were at odds for a short bit and if I was impatient I apologize. My aim had always been to encourage you to get out of your shell and meet with people and it’d make you feel better…more human and nothing more.
Fulfilling a ‘need’ is always out there if we really want it. But like you I prefer a deeper connection with a woman who’d become my ‘soulmate’ in time…or at least have a nice easy-going relationship…so I do understand where you’re coming from.
As for your secrets…we all have our own share, probably not to the same severity but there are things we don’t share with others, because of the damage they can cause in our lives/relationships.
This is probably why you’ve seen I rarely post in your threads now…because there’s little I can add and I think you already know what’s right for you.
I think you’ve limited yourself because of the desire to have a genuine relationship with someone and to be fully open/honest about yourself with them.
And you are right, women who go after prisoners are deluded and probably suffer from some mental illness or deep-seated insecurity because they feel worthless. Could also be ‘daddy-issues’ in their mind…so I can understand your desire to avoid them as normal men would.
Ofc we’re all going to do what we feel is right for us, despite what anyone says. But given what you’ve mentioned here….I think your options are limited to more casual relationships…or inventing a ‘fake persona’ many people do that by the way, so they can live a fairly ‘normal’ life.
If you go down the road of ‘total honesty’ with your s/o then as you know it’s more likely to backfire and I agree with you there…that’s why I had suggested keeping it a secret…or just go for causal relationships.
As humans we are social animals and to feel normal we need other people in our lives. So you’d be happier if you had some interaction as oppose to none at all…just my suggestion.
If you do decide to end it sometime will you a ‘tell-all’ before you go…or take your secrets to your grave? I admit I’m a little curious but then maybe worried I would’ve probably preferred not to know.
I agree I’d probably be happier with some level of casual relationship than none at all, at least for a while. That does come with it’s own set of fairly significant challenges though. It can be difficult to be charming and likable, or push yourself to get through rejection, when you’re overwhelmed by despair and don’t really see the point. It’s a lot of work for something that doesn’t really seem that meaningful.
If I ever do decide to end it I doubt I’ll post here, and certainly not about the things I’m most ashamed of. I’ve told therapists about it in the past, so it’s not like I feel some desperate need to confess. I don’t much fancy the idea of the last interactions I have with others being “good riddance.” It’s something you’d probably prefer not to know – not particularly interesting, just kind of pathetic.
Lol it’s all good…and I understand and respect your privacy. When I was a kid I’d be curious about stuff but there were things I very quickly learned I was better off not knowing…like the meme of can’t be ‘unseen.’
Ya there are things I could say about my life also but won’t ever…except to people who are very close to me like a spouse when I have one.
Our situations really aren’t that different…I also hate rejection, it’s partly why I don’t try sometimes….but no risk no reward.
And you are right about the despair thing-when the world’s beaten you down or if you hate yourself…it’s hard to be a jovial person to try to attract a women.
I’ve been trying to get myself to a better place all my life, but I’m in a bad spot in my life right now…partly due to health issues, partly due to the place I live and work problems also.
It’s all pretty overwhelming-but you need to be able to step outside your situation and realize it’s temporary and it’s possible to overcome these issues. When you’ve had a bad life for so long it’s hard to see any escape from it.
And in the end, if let’s say by the time I’m 55-60 and I get about 10 years of “happiness” is it really worth it….when the best years of my life 20s to 40s are all behind me?
Wish it was possible to do a redo, but ofc it’s not….logically I should probably work to have my last ‘hurrah’ and then check out.
Anyways…good luck to all of us stuck in a rut, esp when it comes to relationships…hopefully we’re able to meet someone new soon that makes us happy. For me I won’t be satisfied till at least I’m fit again…I hate being out of shape.
I know I’m rambling a bit but felt the need to get it out.
Cheers to that, good luck out there.
Thanks @husk and likewise.
@husk- I don’t think your chances are zero, it’s not impossible, but it is incredibly difficult to find the right person.
Hell, I think these days it’s hard for even a normal person, let alone someone with a checkered past. Even before my car accident, when I was working and fully able-bodied, I had a difficult time finding the right person too. And now, with American culture the way it is, ppl don’t really want to pair up in relationships like they used to. When I was growing up (I’m a little older than you), it was all about finding a man and getting married in my generation.
Now, everyone claims they want to be “single.” Both men and women these days have one foot already out the door when they’re dating. I can’t explain it properly, but the societal views on marriage/dating is different now than in the past, and I’m not that old.
Anyhow, with that said, I think you are dooming yourself. It’s not impossible- there are ppl willing to forgive whatever it is you did, but you do have to somehow find them. It’s kind of like finding any genuinely good person these days- feels like trying to find a leprechaun. Anyhow, you have age on your side. Still a relatively “young” man. You never know if you might find that one person you like and they are willing to believe in redemption. Ofc easier said than done. Finding even a normal partner for a normal person seems like finding a needle in a haystack. Not impossible but very very difficult.
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oh. it showed up on my dashboard as in moderation. i was so confused. i was like “that must be a reply in a thread i commented on.” but it’s not. can y’all see eternal darknesses’ comment on your dashboard as well???
lol i left a perfectly normal comment and it’s under moderation.
there are religious ppl who tend to believe in redemption. not saying to go after a religious nut- those tend to be the MOST unforgiving, ironically. but there are ppl who believe in forgiveness and redemption…even for really bad deeds. so there’s that.
idk- i feel like even you have a better shot at finding the right person than me. i’m feeling pretty hopeless myself. like i know it’s not impossible for me, but also know it’s very f’ing difficult to find someone to overlook my issues- ie my being sick and not working.
Hey Darkness, just FYI any comment with “p*rtner” in gets auto-modded, fallen foul of that myself several times before 🙂
As I mentioned to Soda earlier, a big part of the issue is I don’t think I can risk telling anyone (other than therapists.) It’s the kind of thing where I wouldn’t expect even a good person to keep it secret. And if it got out, it could absolutely destroy my life, and really damage my family. So that’s a huge risk to take for what seems like a very low chance of someone being ok with it. Every now and then I come across a woman I really like who, in the process of getting to know her, says something that shows she clearly wouldn’t be ok with it. And they’re not wrong – it’s not something a good person should be ok with. So it seems virtually impossible to find someone, without telling so many people my most incriminating secrets that it’s almost guaranteed to get out to my local community.
I know what you mean about societal views being very different now – the internet has changed things a lot, making it difficult in all sorts of other ways. Not really sure I even have time on my side anymore. I’m mid-30s, and certainly don’t feel “young”, though I suppose that’s relative.
I know you have your own set of very complicated issues, and I wouldn’t want to diminish those. To me it seems like you could at least be more open in searching for someone who’s ok with them, though I’m sure that could still be extremely dispiriting. You could explicitly lay out what your issues are and filter for people who’re ok with them.
I think you also have the benefit of a reasonable expectation that someone who’s kind and empathetic shouldn’t condemn you, if you do meet someone like that. I don’t have that. I know for sure that some of the people who I’ve liked and respected the most, who I know are genuinely good people, who I’d very much like to be with, would want nothing to do with me.
That’s the thing- I find humans so disappointing. I used to think well of humans, until I got sick, was unable to work, and both ppl I knew AND ppl I didn’t know, wanted nothing to do with me simply bc I wasn’t working. And this was before I got sick.
So it started off me quitting my job. Then suddenly, 95% of my “friends” were no longer my friends, wanted nothing to do with me. I was the same person, but bc I could no longer be “useful” to them (I used to work for a prestigious hard to get in place in the past), they dropped me faster than a hot potato.
Then I did get hit by a car. The “friends” that I used to hang out with at least 1-2x a week every week, as soon as I told them I was hit by a car. And they ALL dropped me like I was nuclear waste. Within 24 hours.
Bc of people’s reactions like that, and bc outwardly I looked “normal,” I always hid how sick and injured I was. So no one knew about my car accident until I tell them. And 99% of the time I wouldn’t. See- here is where you and I are similar. Even though I hadn’t done something bad/horrific- I, like you, still had to hide who I was- which was I was hit by a car and have chronic health issues. It’s a “secret” I have to hide from everyone, bc I know 99% of ppl won’t accept it. Ppl SAY they will, but once you tell them, they drop you like a hot potato and want nothing to do with you.
So like you, it’s a secret I have to keep from the rest of the world. I do have online chats with ppl who are sick/chronically ill, so i suppose I have somewhat of an outlet but it doesn’t do much. none are “friends.” No one cares past a post here and there. Those forums are much like this one, like SP. No one really cares beyond a post and comment here and there.
It’s a lonely fucking world when you have to hide a secret from the rest of the world- even something that isn’t bad or something that isn’t my fault like in my case. And it’s mind boggling to me how my being chronically ill and not working is seen by Americans/the rest of the world as something akin to having the plague that ppl must avoid. And that is something I have to hide from everyone IRL. It’s f’ing insane to me.
So yes, understand how you cannot say anything to anyone, bc 99% of ppl WILL NOT understand/care/tolerate you if they knew whatever it is you did, bc that is the reality of it. It’s not 100%- there are a few rare ppl who will give ppl a chance who aren’t nuts like the women who go after murderers. These ppl do exist, and you may find someone who- after you’ve been with them for awhile- feel like they may give you a chance. Like I said, not impossible but very difficult to find.
In my case, you’d THINK that it would be easier to find someone since I’m “only” sick and not bc I harbour some horrible secret I’ve done. But in my reality, it’s exceedingly hard to find ANYONE- even make friends- with ppl who will overlook my being sick and not working. Like these ppl do exist, I suppose, but where tf are they? I haven’t met any in the last 20 years since I’ve been sick. I haven’t been able to even manage to make friends with ppl let alone find a mate. I mean I’ve made a FEW friends the past 20 years, but the few I made were also disabled themselves, so they don’t count towards the “general population.”
Idk, I feel hopeless. I have tried multiple times to get out and meet ppl, and each time 1- requires so much energy and effort to contiunously go out and 2- NONE of it has ever panned out. And each time I tried lasted a good 3-6mo of continuously trying. And after multiple times of trying, I’ve given up. What’s the point of expending all that energy and effort only to be disappointed in it all leading to nowhere??
Now logically, I know that if I don’t try, I’ll never meet anyone or make any friends IRL. But man- it takes SO much effort and has like a 99% failure rate. I’m tired. I’m disappointed in the human race. It’s unbelievable how vicerally ppl hate you when they find out you’re chronically ill/not working. I’m very serious- once “friends” or acquantainces find out I’m disabled/sick/not working- they suddenly 1- drop me like a hot potato and want nothing to do with me or 2- turn night and day and become assh*les to me. When I’m literally the SAME person they’ve always known, except now they know I’m sick/not working. Ppl see you like a leech if you’re not working. Despite the fact that I have NEVER asked anyone for anything.
I feel for you Darkness…I don’t know where the stingyiness comes from. I grew up with the mindset of helping your family and closest friends in times of need.
Like if I had a high income, I wouldn’t think twice of covering a close friend’s dinner/movie…so we had the privilege of hanging out….until they got back on their feet. Many of us do go through cycles of working and not working.
Unfortunately for a lot of people money matters more than family/friends. It’s also a bit of the dog-eat-dog mentality…people are selfish and greedy and don’t want to share.
I guess when you lost your job your friends thought they’d have to pay for you or that you’d expect some help from them, rather than think she’ll eventually be back on her feet.
The health thing I understand also…people just don’t want to deal with other people’s issues or care to be a true friend for them…it’s sad.
But ya if you’re in a situation where poor health and no job goes on for a long time, the I understand it is hard to keep your friends…since people want to hang out and it takes money and ofc good health.
I think if you were able to improve your health situation and start working again, your friends might be there for you.
But life is hard any way you slice it. The world is for the healthy, strong, abled and monied…those of us who ‘fall from grace’ are rejected.
I have my own share of health issues and other problems and my managers-rather than being sympathetic are looking for excuses to fire me.
Fortunately my coworkers are cool and sympathetic to my situation…and in my case my friends/family (fortunately) are still there for me.
Nobody wants to be alone, we all need good people in our lives….but accidents and other problems could put us in a hole and then people don’t want to be around us.
I wish you well and hope you can improve your situation.
IDK man, I feel hopeless. As a female, when you’re >30 or >35, no guys want you anymore. That applies to healthy working women too, let a woman who who has health issues and not working. It’s not impossible but very unlikely I’ll meet a man who wants to be with me with me being mid-40s. Even healthy 40s women have a super hard time, let alone someone sick like me. So…IDK, I dont’ really have hope anymore. I’ve tried so many times in my 30s. Given up now that I’m in my 40s. -_-
let me clarify- if i wanted to be with whoever and find ANY guy willing to go out with me- ofc i can find one. or a bunch. but they wouldn’t be serious with me. like you, i want something MEANINGFUL. someone who “jives” with me. someone i care to be with long term. and THAT is what i have difficulty finding. and yes, 95% of ppl can’t see past the whole “if you’re not working, you’re a leech” stereotype. That stereotype and attitude is viscerally strong in the USA.
I hear you, society in general is indeed very judgemental when it comes to unemployment. And many friendships can be revealed to be superficial when tested to any degree. People can be very cold, especially when they’re young and ambitious.
And I agree that your dating options do reduce as you age. It’s not that no guys want women older than 40, but you probably are selecting from a narrower pool – often those coming out of failed marriages who already have kids, or those who never managed to find something that lasted long-term.
I do think there’s a significant difference in our situations, in that the worst that could happen if you tell someone the truth is rejection (which does absolutely suck). Whereas for me the worst is it resulting in a serious threat to my safety and livelihood (and even that of my family). The risk is much greater. Not saying that to in any way diminish your struggles, just to clarify the distinction.
I do also think that if you were fortunate enough to meet the right people, you have a reasonable expectation of acceptance. Which I don’t. I’ve had some very accepting friends in the past, hippy types who live alternative lifestyles. They absolutely accepted me when I was unemployed, and when I had health issues. But I knew for certain they would’ve been appalled if I’d told them the darker stuff.
Anyway, not trying to debate you over which of us is more fucked 😉
we both have it bad. the thing is, you don’t know just how dangerous it is to be disabled. yes, it gets dangerous. there’s a reason why i hide my disability. i once told a neighbor i was struck by a car, and the VERY next time i saw him, he r*ped me, bc he thought i was too injured to fight back, which i was. so yes, telling someone i’m disabled/sick/injured has severe consequences that normal ppl are not aware of. also, 90% of all disabled women have been r*ped by their pa.rtn.ers. that’s a cold hard reality. this is why i no longer trust in the human race, bc of things like this. bc this is how humans really are.
going back to your secret- yes, i get it. whatever you did is bad, and if ppl found out, they’d likely want to beat you up. i’m sure there’s serious consequences. i’m not arguing that.
i’m just pissed that *I* have consequences if i tell the wrong person i’m disabled. if i am upfront with ppl at the start, NO ONE wants to talk to me, hang out with me, be friends, etc let alone go out with me. so that puts me in a tough spot- what do i do? if i tell ppl my health condition, 99% won’t talk to me again and those who do will treat me like crap. so then i just become a hermit, a recluse. obviously that’s not healthy, but what is one to do??
oh men absolutely don’t want a woman over 40. even my uncle, who is divorced/separated from his wife, wants a 20 something girl. i’m like wtf?
men, on the other hand, if he’s 30, 40, or 50- women will still go out with them. women don’t care about a man’s age the way men do about a women’s age.
yes, there’s a MUCH smaller pool- after about 35, most men are already married or with a LT par.t.ner. after 45- forget it. very few single men left. very few single men left. the few left tend to be incel types- very angry and hateful toward women. the divorced types usually have too much entanglements still with their ex’s, either they’re not fully over them (they tend to hook back up from time to time) or they have kids. and no, i do not want kids, let alone someone else’s kids. usually divorced fathers are looking for a schmuck to take care of their kids- just like divorced women are looking when they’re scouring for a man. yes i would know, bc i have divorced friends with kids and yes, that’s exactly what they do.
so yes, that means i’m left to be single and alone. i do not want to be one of those ppl who will “settle” for someone just to not be alone, bc in the end, i would feel more disappointed and unfulfilled if it isn’t true love.
i mean, everyone is different. i know a HELLA lot of women who only care about spending a man’s money and they don’t care if it’s not “true love” as long as they live a cushy life, and the guy is decent enough to them.
unfortunately for me, i am not like that. i need love. i crave real love, like you do. i’m sure you can find someone and put on the perfect guy act and get away with you, but you don’t want to do that, bc you want someone to know the real you and accept the real you. except it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. like in my situation. yes our situations are very different but the results are the same emotionally- either loneliness or pretending and settling. neither are good options.
if i was harboring some kind of dark past, then it would make sense. but in my case, i have not done anything wrong, and yet i am treated as if i have the bubonic plague. ppl treat the disabled like garbage, worldwide. did you know Hitler tried to exterminate the disabled along with the Jews? that part is never talked about in school/society.
ppl have a visceral hate for the disabled. many secretly view the disabled as worse than murderers. at least murderers can work, pay taxes, and not be on taxpayer money. nobody will admit it bc it’s not kosher to admit certain things but ppl really do have that kind of attitude.
look at serial murderers. many of them murder prostitutes. no one cares about the lives of prostitutes. they only get caught when they murder a white middle class woman.
anyhow, we are in a similar predicament. the disabled are looked up as badly as those who murder, r3pe, etc. i mean morally, ppl know the disabled haven’t done anything wrong, but that also doesn’t mean ppl aren’t disgusted and hateful toward the disabled. the hate is just not overt and said out loud.
why was the extermination of the disabled NEVER talked about? why? bc ppl worldwide secretly agreed with it. why else would no one talk about the atrocities to the disabled? no one EVER talks about the extermination of the disabled. and hitler wasn’t the first to do it either.
anyhow, going back to my original statement- it’s not impossible, for you or me, to find a true par.tn.er who loves us for who or what we are. however, it is exceedingly difficult. hence, why we are both depressed and feeling quite hopeless.
and yes, there are genuine ppl who do believe in redemption. i used to be one of those ppl. i used to be so sweet, so forgiving of ppl, and i had friends who are like that as well. even murderers who genuinely wanted to turn their life around i was for it and believed they should get a second chance.
i’m not sweet/naive like that anymore, but there exists ppl who would forgive you for what you’ve done- rare though. very rare. there was a girl who donated a kidney to her bf, and then he dumped her a few months after she gave him her kidney, and she STILL didn’t hate him or regret giving him her kidney. like unbelievably a genuinely sweet person. someone like that would absolutely believe in redemption. but yes, rare.
like there was a guy who went to jail for his gf. i don’t remember what she did but not only does he not care about whatever she did and still loved her and accepted her, but he took the fall for her too. yes i know, it’s different from whatever bad deed you did. like 99/100 ppl you meet will absolutely shun you but there will be that 1/100 will believes in second chances.
same for me for finding someone who is ok being with someone who’s sick, but yes, finding that 1/100 feels fucking hopeless, bc…i guess it is. -_-
That’s fair, I hadn’t considered how revealing your physical vulnerabilities to people could expose you to greater risk of assault.
I do think you can generalise too much about what men (or women) want. While I agree that men tend to value youth more than women, that’s only one factor in what makes a person appealing. The equivalent generalisation would be that women only care about a man’s socioeconomic status. There are plenty of examples I could point to if I wanted to prove that, but I’ve also known women who don’t much care what a partner earns. Likewise, I’ve known men who weren’t too bothered about looks, and were happy to be with someone who was interesting to talk to/fun to be around.
I agree that there is deep social resentment of the disabled. In my school they did teach about the Nazi program to exterminate disabled people, but it does tend to get drowned out by the Holocaust in the list of Nazi atrocities (along with the extermination of Romani people, 6 million Catholic Poles, gay people, countless political opponents.)
There are plenty of people who’re for redemption in theory, or at a distance. I don’t think any (that are morally sane and not completely desperate) would be willing to date someone who’d done something terrible. Many might stay with someone they’d already fallen in love with if they found out something like that. But I can’t imagine anyone knowing about it beforehand and still falling for someone. It makes no sense.
ofc there are some men who would go for older women as there are women who are willing to date men who are broke, but there aren’t that many. even if money is not important to a woman, she would at least want a man who makes avg money and not super poor. and even if a man is willing to date older women, generally “older” is 30s instead of 20s, and not 40s or 50s. yes i know there exists SOME men willing to go out with older women, but there isn’t a lot. same as finding a woman willing to date/marry a man who makes <$30k.
the vast majority of men i've met (as well as ones i haven't met), all want younger women. i've been on dating sites, and when i was in my 20s, i had TONS of emails and messages, every. single. day. about ~20/day at least, every day for months. the SECOND i changed my profile to 30, when i turned 29 to 30…crickets. there was a noticeable decrease in the # of messages. like not even half, more like 1/5 or less. i haven't tried now that i'm in my 40s. feels like it'd be too depressing.
like i said, i had tried on and off in my 30s. none of it ever panned out so too tired to try.
ppl always say "you'll find someone as soon as you stop looking!" well, i haven't been looking the last couple of years, and no, the right person doesn't magically pop up. -_-
if i want to find someone, i have to get back out there, and i don't want to. bc it's really disheartening to feel ppl's reaction to you as soon as you tell them you're not working or have health issues. it's like akin to being punched in the face, emotionally. except instead of physical, you see the disdain for your as soon as you tell them, when just a minute earlier they were into you and thought you were a cool person to hang out with and talk to. hell, i've known ppl for YEARS before telling them (friends) and the flip is literally within MINUTES. they literally drop you in 24hrs, even the ones that's known me and friends with me for years and years.
also, i wasn't born disabled. i was very independent and physically active most of my life before being hit by the car and being sick, so i know how ppl normally react to me vs now. especially since i never reveal it to ppl IRL. the only time i reveal my health issues is online, like here on SP or other forums. it's insane how i just cannot tell anyone IRL.
and yes, it's something i have to keep a TIGHT lid on, bc as you know like in your case, if you tell one person, that one person can tell another and that person can tell another and next thing you know everyone knows. and that can't happen. it's insane that i have to hide my health from everyone.
OH what’s worse is that the ones that DO know about my being sick- bc I’m not in a wheelchair, and can walk, to some extent, they do not see me as disabled, sick, or needing ANY help. and so i do not get any. i’m seen as “lazy” to them. hell, i NEVER ask for help. even me never asking for help, they see me as “lazy” when i LITERALLY had an infection all over my legs for the last few months and literally struggled to even put on and take off my pants/underwears/etc. ffs i just can’t win. i’m seen as either TOO disabled or NOT disabled enough.
well long story story, we are both fucked. we may find love and acceptance in the future but i’m not hopeful…
i mean for me
the only other scenario i see for you is you finding someone else with a slightly checkered past, someone who’s done a horrific act, but it was either a once off or for a short moment in time, and for all intents and purposes, had a normal middle class life. i don’t imagine you wanting to go out with someone who wasn’t like you in terms of background.
Yeah, I’ve thought kind of similar things before, but the number of women who’ve done something you might consider “horrific” is pretty tiny. And even then it’s generally for very specific reasons (e.g. stabbing someone in self-defence.) Otherwise it comes back to the question of moral sanity – I probably wouldn’t want to date a serial killer, unless there was some way of being absolutely convinced that they’d completely changed.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s really a female equivalent to the things I’ve done or my general mindset. But even if such a person existed, I don’t know how I’d ever find them.
I’d be open to someone from pretty much any background, provided they understood where I was coming from.
your problem is that the girl, like you, would hide their true self from the world as well. especially for women bc “women aren’t supposed to do those things.” there absolutely are these women, and women do do these things. but the problem is finding them. just how you would (almost) never reveal yourself, same applies for those women. especially women would hide that part.
as a female, i can tell you that females have most definitely done heinous things. women just aren’t “allowed” to say anything out loud. women hide infinitely more things from the rest of the world than men, and yes, even violent/horrific acts.
not me obviously but ppl have confided in me. the things ppl will tell you when they think you can’t speak or tell the rest of the world. (i used to never speak for a large portion of my life, and ppl thought i was deaf mute, so they’d confide all sorts of shit to me- both males and females. and this was before the internet became so prolific. so who’s a deaf mute going to tell? no one).
also this is part of why i don’t believe in the whole “there’s tons of good ppl in the world!” crap. most everyone has done or wanted to do evil things- the “nice” ones just hide it better than most. i mean obviously there’s different levels of “evil” and “good,” but most “good” ppl just hide their true selves better than the “average” person.
I’d be interested to hear some examples of what you’re thinking of, considering the overwhelming majority of violent or “serious” offenders are men. I suppose women are involved in a fair bit of low-level domestic violence, although that’s normally framed as being the result of reacting to intolerable circumstances.
It’s complicated, because although stuff like that might have more real-world impact than the things I’ve done, it’s far less stigmatised and shameful.
I’m pretty sure women who’d done things like that would still look down on me and see what I’ve done as unforgivable.
But yeah, even if there were a woman on an equivalent level to me (who wasn’t just a complete psychopath or insane), I can’t think of any way I’d ever find her. I really wish I could think of some way round that.
ofc, the majority of the violent crimes are committed by men, the r*pes, sa’s, murders, stabbings, etc. purely bc men are stronger than women and evil women who want to do those things generally have to do things in a different way- like poisoning. i wouldn’t consider things like poisoning “low-level” crime- it’s just that women’s crimes tend to be more hidden then men’s. men do stuff that is obvious- a guy is pissed off at another guy so he goes and punches him in the face. overt and obvious. women, on the other can’t. women generally can’t go around doing that although many would love to.
women’s crimes are way more insidious than men’s in some ways, are longer lasting, and much harder to prove.
well forget those for now. i’ll only mention what is “obvious” for now- example- killer nurses. there’s a reason why there’s whole shows devoted to it. there are indeed MANY nurses that use their job to hide their murderous nature. many evil ppl purposely go into these professions to gain access to vulnerable ppl. this kind of thing has been going on since the dawn of time- back in the old days, before hospitals, women were seen as nurturers- feeding and nursing a husband/mother/sister/relative back to health, only to be feeding arsenic or whatever poison to the person. But the whole community/village/family thinks oh she is SO devoted and such an amazing person. she lies to the whole world while secretly poisoning the person that she is seen “lovingly” taking care of. there’s many many many cases of that, currently and throughout the dawn of time. most don’t connect the dots and are found bc no one suspects. and it’s purposely done in small doses over a long span of time to give the maximum pain and suffering possible.
Imagine being slowly poisoned and suffering for years and years and slowly withering away? you are healthy so you wouldn’t really understand how horrible that is. being stabbed to death is obviously bad, but i’d take that any day over being slowly poisoned to death, bc that is much much much greater torture. and the women who do it do it on purpose, slowly, to maximize torture and to be there to see all of it. Pure. Evil.
Just a few days ago, a TX anesthesiologist was found guilty of injecting things into patients IV bags. This kind of thing is very common in the “healing” professions. And it is WAY to easy to commit these types of acts. You think it’s rare, I don’t. I was in a hospital just a few months ago. When you are that sick and that vulnerable, your health and body are literally at the hands of the nurses (it’s usually nurses bc they’re the ones you see most of the day and night, and have the most access to harm you, dr’s you only see like 10min a day). which is not to say drs don’t harm you bc they definitely do. but nurses have 24-7 access to you unlike drs. too easy to inject something into your IV bag, which EVERY patient had while I was in the hospital.
There’s also tons of women who arrange for their daughters/female friends to get r3ped. Again, it’s harder to nail the woman and prove bc it’s easy to make it look like just a “random” r&pe, bc men do r&pe randomly out of nowhere.
A tangent- the majority of r3pes are done by ppl we know. So the whole stranger danger is kinda bunk. I mean obviously be careful of strangers, but we are much more likely to be a victim of someone we know that a violent crime from a stranger. Those violent crimes from strangers are what makes the news. What doesn’t make the news is our friend/neighbor/bf/relative who does this to us and 99% of those girls/women will never come out and report it or tell anymore bc it’s shameful. And yes, I have known a LOT of women who have been r7ped and only 1 of them has ever decided to press charges.
The vast majority of crimes are done by ppl we know or trust. Hence, women are more insidious with their crimes bc so much of it that occurs involves trusting the person when you shouldn’t.
There are women who help their pard,ners lure kids/teen girls so the guy can kidnap and r&pe them. Those females would never have been r3ped if it wasn’t for the female helping, and for the defenses of the victim to be lowered bc we women instinctively “trust” a female stranger but instinctively do not trust a male stranger.
There’s many more examples- these are just a few. And again, there’s way more that occurs that women just aren’t found and prosecuted for, bc it’s often more difficult to find a woman doing these things. Overt things like beating a person- too obvious who is the perpetrator. Pretending to be a loving person, nursing a sick husband/daughter/whoever back to health only to be purposely putting things in their food for months or years- pure evil. ALSO- the ones who are smart will not fully kill their victims- they purposely do it so the person doesn’t die- you can’t see them suffer if you kill them right? And if the person doesn’t die, and you’re not using obvious poison like arsenic or whatever, you’re not going to be found. the victim is just going to be looked at as a sick person.
oh i used to watch a ton of crime shows. so they show all these kinds of female murders. and most of them don’t ever get found. most of them engage in those acts for decades before they’re found out. to me, i find it infinitely more sickening and horrible than a single act of violence that ends a life quickly, which is most of men’s violent crimes. i mean that’s not so say men don’t also engage in sick shit that tortures victims for years.
but point is, there’s tons of evil crimes women engage in that’s just as evil if not worse, than the “violent” crimes men commit.
those are just the few obvious examples. there’s many more that women commit that are, in my view, just as evil or insidious, but are not considered to be “serious” crimes.
Sure, killer nurses are a thing (as well as carers who abuse their patients in non-lethal ways.) I do think some of the instances of induced illness are down to things like Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy, where the motive is not so much to cause harm or pain but to garner attention. Still obvs fucked-up though. There was a case recently of a nurse repeatedly causing premature babies to die, so she could be involved in trying to resuscitate them. It seems like at least part of the motive there was enjoying being the centre of attention.
I don’t know how you could possibly quantify how common this stuff is though. The only evidence you’d have is those who’re actually caught. I suppose maybe you could infer from that a larger number of women who’re more cautious with their crimes & don’t get caught (although you could probably apply that to some forms of male violence.) But it seems unlikely it would come anywhere close to the numbers of violent males.
Can’t say I’ve ever heard of a woman arranging for another woman to be raped. I’m sure it does happen, but I can’t imagine it makes up more than a tiny proportion of the total number of rapes. Agree that most rapes go unreported, and that the majority are committed by people known to the victim.
I do concede the point that some forms of female violence go unseen. I also still think it’s comparatively rare.
i never claimed there were MORE violent female offenders than men. just saying they’re not as rare as you think. and yes, there are a lot more cases than the rare ones that are caught. remember i told you people used to confess all manner of crimes to me? i mean, none were murder, but most of it was so fucked up, and coming from ppl who appeared so very normal or sweet and you wouldn’t think or have any inkling they’re the kind of person to do anything bad or evil. people are way more evil than you’d think.
and my point was that the things women do are in some ways MORE insidious than what men do. and the things women do and the way they do them are much more under the radar and never caught.
the vast majority of child abuse is carried on by women/mothers. and by child abuse i don’t mean just physical violence- i mean neglect, i mean not feeding your child enough food, i mean not giving your child socks and shoes to wear, i mean not giving your child a chair to sit in or a desk to use. or not allowing you to use the toilet and you’re forced to urinate all over yourself (that last one was my sister). that kind of shit mothers and women do do WAY more damage than that r&pe ever did. i mean obviously i would like to have none of it ever happen to me and both are horrible- and i’m not comparing per se- but that was a 1 time evil deed vs my WHOLE childhood every day dealing with abuse, day after day after day- and no, cops wouldn’t help and there was no internet back in the day, and i couldn’t get help, so it continued until i was old enough to leave.
oh never mind the shit ton of verbal abuse and crushing my soul and mind and ability to love myself or have any confidence in myself.
yes i did go to college (at 15, skipped some grades of school and took advanced classes), did everything i could, tried to better myself, joined the military, graduated college, got a job at a prestigious place, etc.
but eventually the lack of nutrition during my developmental years caught up with me and i got sick as early as 17 (first signs of health issues to come). i’ve been sick my WHOLE adult life, bc of the neglect, malnutrition, and obviously was never taken to the drs.
anyhow, my story is NOT unique nor rare. there are LOTS of children who are abused and neglected, and it affects our WHOLE fucking life- things that we can never get over. you don’t hear about these cases bc the media ONLY focuses on the few rare cases of EXTREME neglect like the woman who melted into the couch. The every day neglect and abuse of MILLIONS of children are ignored. So do I think that women do way more insidious shit? Yes I do. And no, this is not a great example of the insidiousness of what women do, just a personal example. And yes I have met LOTS of other child abuse victims and no, NONE of them are ever fucking reported like mine bc NO ONE will fucking help.
Just the the r3pe, it was never reported either- bc it’s incredibly difficult to prove r3pe. And like I said, I know A LOT of women personally who have been r3ped and only ONE of them every reported it, have it taken seriously, and got the guy put in jail.
Not just r8pe but LOTS of crimes are NOT ever reported. They purposely make crime hard to report. Hell, my house got robbed, we told the police when they came, and they adamantly refused to let us file a report. Yes, this shit happens in the good ol’ USA.
When I was in college, a roommate stole $500 from me. I tried to report that too, and they wouldn’t let me. Campus police refused to let me file a report bc “it occurred off campus” and the local city police refused to let me report it bc “it’s a student issue and i needed to report it to the university.” Back and forth it went- I kept going to university police, they kept telling me to go to local police, local police kept telling me to go to university police. NONE would even let me file a fucking report.
So I was unable to report a crime. WHY did they do this? Bc colleges are a big business. What every prospective student and parent looks at are crime stats. So they purposely make it difficult to actually report a fucking crime.
NONE of the statistics out there are real- it’s all bullshit. And not just campus crime. Like I said, our house got robbed and the police would not let us file report either. This happened when I was young- there was no internet back then- to look up what to do or who to complain to- so if the police wouldn’t do anything, and you don’t have money for a lawyer, you’re pretty much screwed.
anyhow, my point is, there are A LOT of crimes that are NEVER ever reported, especially female crimes. And no, I don’t mean just cases of child abuse. There’s lots of other examples but they would take a lot of time to explain. And like I said, they’re not cut and dry quit things like what men do, like physical beatings, stabbings, murder etc. Don’t get me wrong- those things are obviously horrible- not saying they’re not. Just saying women do just as horrible things, but women do them in other ways.
Going back to mothers arranging r2pe, yes it happens a lot more often than you think. these shitty women get men to pay them, that’s why they do it. most of them are poor. and if you’re a poor person trying to report a crime, oftentimes the police will just ignore you and not do a damn thing. and yes, that IS something that happens in the USA. the crime stats you see is just not accurate. a large percentage of crimes just get unreported, uncounted, or discounted, let alone have police actually do anything. I have had it happen to me, I have many friends it’s happened to, especially non violent crime. Many are just not reported, counted, or have anything done.
Hell, we know that even with crimes that are actually reported, like child abuse, and the cases goes to DCS, the majority of children are sent BACK to the abusive parents.
so yes, evil poor women arranging for their daughters to get r2ped to get money DOES happen. obviously this occurs less often than regular male r2pe of a woman, but this does occur a lot more than you think. it’s not “once in a blue moon.”
And those are the cases that are reported. Like I said, there’s many cases of child abuse or other kinds of abuse or other kinds of crime that just isn’t reported/filed bc we are unable to.
all i’m saying is that women do horrific shit- we are not the better sex- women do all manners of fucked up shit- and women play the long game of ruining people’s lives vs men are more obvious like stabbings murder etc.
Don’t get me wrong- men DO commit the majority of the violent crimes. and they are horrible. All I’m saying is that a lot of women do a lot of evil shit, most of them not reported or even found out. And women commit acts that take a long time to commit- it’s not one act and it’s done. Women play the long game.
going back to killer nurses and carers who abuse- it is a WELL KNOWN fact that the elderly in nursing homes are abused- routinely. And yet NOTHING is done about it. Why? it’s been known for decades. Most of those carers are women. Daily abuse. They’re not being outright stabbed to death, but being abused on a daily basis is much worse. Yes, it is.
Oh and it’s not just outright beatings like hitting an elderly that’s abuse. When I was in the hospital for an infection, the nurses literally would leave patients rolling in their own shit and piss for hours before cleaning the patient. And no, it’s not bc they’re so busy. They’ll purposely do this to patients they do not like. And it’s not bc the patient was overly obnoxious. No, they do this to patients if they happen to be a race they don’t like, or they’re in a bad mood that day, or whatever reason. Patients get abused routinely. I saw this with my own eyes. Also, nurses wouldn’t give you your IVs (meds) on time, or take the IVs off when they’re done. Again- it’s not bc they’re busy- they do it to patients they do not like. Again, these ppl weren’t being obnoxious.
And if you complain to HR, NO ONE does a damn thing. NONE of those cases, even if you make a complaint, gets filed as an official case of neglect or abuse.
It’s not outright stabbings or violence, but idk if you realize just how bad it is. you are lying there completely vulnerable- if they don’t wipe you, you are rolling in your own shit and piss for hours upon hours upon hours, and then you’re going to get infected all over. and it’s not just a matter of taking antibiotics or rubbing some cream on. i’d rather get moderately beat up once (no permanent damage, i mean like bruises) than get infected. I’ve dealt with infection and they’re f*ing horrible. infections can last for months, cause you 24-7 pain, rip the skin, and if you are already sick, that infected skin will not heal. you’ll have difficulty walking, moving, using the toilet, showering, and even lying down.
Anyhow, there’s abuses occurring on the daily and that shit just doesn’t get reported. And again, it’s not bc they’re busy- they 1- never want to do their job bc no one likes to clean patients, 2- purposely do this shit to patients they do not like, and no, many of those are not causing trouble. i was in 2 different units and both units had nurses doing this shit. and not just not cleaning their patients. the patients who they do not like just get abused. and then they get together to talk and laugh at the patients for half an hour straight doing nothing and making fun of patients while they’re on active shift. i know bc i can literally hear them- the nurses station was right by my room. and they’re all out there chatting, laughing while patients are pressing their call button and being completely ignored for hours on end. And yes, when you’re completely vulnerable and mostly immobile, it’s fucking abuse when they purposely don’t tend to you. Like your wound is bleeding and they still don’t do shit to help you. I would know bc I was there.
Ok this was something that happened while I was at the hospital- this isn’t like a stabbing or rape obviously. I’m not using this as an example as women doing things on the same level as male violent offenders. Just saying there’s shitty ppl everywhere doing shitty things and nothing is ever reported or if you attempt to report, it never gets officially reported and filed.
and yes, purposely letting someone get an infection, or not helping a patient who’s bleeding and such, IS abuse. and as someone who is sick, i’d rather be beaten (again no permanent damage or broken anything, but like bruises)- i’d rather get bruises that heal after weeks or even months rather than get an infection. i’ve had bruises that lasted months (yes, i would get beaten that badly by my mother). and i’d rather get beaten and get bruises than get an infection. infections can harm you way more than a moderate beating can.
going back to mothers renting out their daughters- i’m assuming you never grew up poor. you don’t know a fraction of the fucked up shit that happens in poor households and the fucked up shit those shitty parents will do to their kids. and the majority of it never gets reported or even if told to police, they won’t do shit. this is first and second hand account- my own experience, and the ppl i know experiences. when you come from a poor background, this is the shit that happens. and no, i am not black. i know ppl only think there’s an issue with black ppl and the police, but it’s a poor person thing- it happens to poor whites and other poor minorities.
I get that most ppl grow up in normal households where only normal things happen and only tidbits of horror are ever reported on the news. So to you and everyone else, all manners of terrible things are seen as “rare.” The only things that make the news or are reported are violent things like stabbings and murders and such.
yes i did go off on a tangent, and no, i am not disagreeing with you that most violent crime are committed by men. i’m just saying that there are just as many evil women committing evil acts.
also, i am not saying the nurses purposely neglecting their patients and not stopping their bleedings or giving their medications on time is on the same level as a stabbing or rape, although the consequences can sometimes be worse.
and no, the hospital i went to was not in a bad neighborhood- i purposely went out of my way to go to one of the best hospitals in the city and was “lucky” enough to actually get admitted. if this kind of shit happens in the better hospitals, i would really not want to see what happens in an average or shitty hospital. i’ve been to shitty hospitals in shitty neighborhoods and you just can’t get admitted or be seen in them, bc there’s too many ppl and not enough hospitals in those areas.
and yes i tend to go off on tangents, sorry. but my point is women may not commit violent one-off crimes like men do, but women often commit longer term acts that cause long term damage to their victims. and often psychologically/mentally versus physically. and i dare say that long term psychological damage harms ppl more than one-off violent crimes. hell, i’d rather have had a good life and then be suddenly stabbed to death than suffer a lifetime of daily abuse at the hands of my mother.
No, I grew up solidly middle class, so you’re right that I don’t have much experience of that kind of stuff. It makes sense that the harsher the economic conditions people are facing, the more that gets reflected in things like neglect and abuse. As a kid I got moved from a well-to-do middle class school to a significantly poorer one, and the difference in behaviour was huge.
To bring it back to how we got on this tangent, it’s interesting for me to think about what kind of past deeds I’d tolerate in a partner. I think I’d probably be accepting of most stuff, provided the person seemed genuinely remorseful. Though it’s hard to imagine someone who’d sadistically abused someone for years just for the pleasure of it having such a huge turnaround to get to that place.
Not that I’d ever reach that point with someone anyway. When I know I can’t trust even those I’m convinced are good people to keep my secrets confidential, that goes double for someone with a sketchy past or motives who might want to use it against me.
oh i went on a tangent. i wasn’t suggesting you go after psychos and really evil ppl. O_o you wanted to know what women have done that’s so evil so i starting giving a few examples. and these are scratching the surface. women are just as evil as men. women just do more non-violent crimes. and women are more interested in long term torture than men. which in my book, just my personal opinion, worse than one violent act. obviously that’s shitty too and i’d never want any violence on me but the long term torture is something else.
things that are forgiveable are things like say drunk driving and killing a family. and the person never drives drunk again. that’s an accident. well, if we’re talking about purposely committing an evil act, say a guy r@pes a girl or sa’s a girl, one time, but never did it again. SOME ppl are willing to forgive that, IF the person truly never did it again (tho IRL you’ll never know what ppl have done, are doing, or will or will not do ever again).
In so many serial murder or serial rape cases, the wife is always shown to never have a clue of what her husband was really like after 20 or 30 years living with the guy. IDK if I believe that in all those instances that the women have zero inkling, but certainly in some cases, the perps are really good at covering their tracks and putting on a facade. I wonder how many of these cases did the wife/gf truly NOT know?
“As a kid I got moved from a well-to-do middle class school to a significantly poorer one, and the difference in behaviour was huge.”
>>Exactly. As a kid, I got moved from a regular middle class neighborhood school, to a lower working class school. It wasn’t the ghettos. Less than a mile down and I could’ve technically still walked to my old elementary school. But the school and the people in schools, both the students and staff were SO f*ing different. It wasn’t horrible but it wasn’t great. THEN we moved again, 2 years later (I went to THREE different elementary schools). yeah. that sucked. The 3rd one was like a mile away from the 2nd one. And THIS one, is where we lived the rest of my childhood- was absolute shit. The staff were racist af, the students dumb af and there were always fights. The neighborhood was poorer, but again this wasn’t the ghettos (still<2mi from the 1st school) and not even classified as a "bad" neighborhood- but it wasn't good. At the age of 10, I already knew I had to be careful, watch my back, watch for creeps, I knew if I was being followed to NOT walk home, which I had to do numerous times. And yes, I was being followed by creeps as young as 10yo.
And I was bullied every single day. Again, this wasn't far from the original 1st school- it was like a mile or 2 away. I deeply resented my mother for pulling me out of the school I was actually happy at and had friends at just to be thrown TWICE into shitty schools, one more shitty than the other. Never once asked what *I* wanted. And especially since I could have just frigging WALKED an extra mile or two to get to the original school, which I would have happily done to get away from the riff-raff and racist teachers and racist staff and unruly students.
I saw the difference in the schools and this wasn't even a drastic from well to-do-posh area to bad area. It was all within 2mi but the neighborhood just gets worse the further you go away from where my 1st school was. And I could see the education go from great to mediocre to bad. The teachers were shit in the 3rd school. And sadly, most of my education were in this shit neighborhood. Which isn't even technically considered shitty since this wasn't "the ghettos."
I would honestly be a different person if I had been allowed to stay in the first elementary school the whole time, instead of being pulled out every 2 years into another school, each worse than the last. and then elementary was bad in this neighborhood. every day there were fights. that was just the norm. and again, this wasn’t even considered a “bad” school or a “bad” neighborhood according to the society. i suppose it’s like a 3.5 out of 10 and not a 1 out of 10, which doesn’t make me feel any better that it’s not the worst bc i *could* have just stayed at the 5 out of 10 school and 5 out of 10 neighborhood. i wouldn’t have attachment issues if i wasn’t constantly being pulled out of school after making friends. by the 3rd school, and especially in jhs, i had trouble making friends. mostly bc i wasn’t dumb and a bad kid so i didn’t fit in. bc i never fit in my whole life and was always made, i grew up thinking there was something wrong with ME, rather than that most everyone else around me was shitty. so to this day, i feel like an oddball, never fitting in anywhere.
always made fun of *
going back to you, the reason why i think you’d have better luck in finding a mate is bc you grew up in a normal middle class environment. you haven’t had to deal with any of the shit i had to grow up with. ppl love normal. ppl love middle class ppl and middle class upbringing, especially upper middle class white upbringing. god knows how you’ll find someone who’s willing to accept your bad deed, but you’re able to pose as someone perfectly normal and probably pass off as “a nice guy” to ppl. so ppl like you and trust you for the most part- unless you want to tell them the truth.
the person who r*ped me appears to everyone else as “a nice guy.” no one would know what kind of guy he really is, what he has done, and what he is capable of except me. now that i think about it, i’m sure i wasn’t his first victim. it seemed to go too smoothly, like he knew exactly what he was doing and how to do it in a way where he wouldn’t get in trouble and hard to prove. this is why i couldn’t speak out, bc nobody would believe me. and there’s rarely any evidence when it comes to r*pe, especially if the guy wears a condom if he’s not an idiot who doesn’t want to get caught.
anyhow. there’s plenty of “nice” guys and “nice” gals out there who are anything but. and it’s near impossible to filter those out unless they target you. like the ones who are really good at their “craft.”
yes i know, there are those we can sniff out who are bad and who we should avoid. trust me, i’ve learned to be very careful. but as careful as someone is, there are some very good-passing assholes out there, the guys/girls who blend into society so well and pass off to the world they’re really sweet/nice/normal nothing out of the ordinary ppl.
anyhow, for some reason, i feel like you will eventually find someone who accepts you. may take some time. someone who falls for you, and years later, you eventually tell the girl and she’s willing to believe you’re a changed man from back then and will never do x again.
Yeah, it’s sad how much of a difference poverty makes. I went from being a completely average student in a middle-class school to several levels above my peers, purely because I was one of the few with parents who had time to help with homework and stuff. At the good school I left the 8-year-olds were learning poetry, whereas the school I went to some were still struggling with the alphabet.
You’re assuming I’m well-socialised, which I’m not. I was also bullied, partly because kids resented my background, partly because I was a soft target (I’d never had to defend myself the first 9 years of my life.) Not constant bullying, just enough to make me feel unsafe and unable to trust my peers. So I stopped socialising, or trying to make friends, and focused on keeping my head down and avoiding getting hit. My social skills basically froze at that age.
I can appear normal and like a “nice guy” in some contexts, but a lot of the time I come across as a complete weirdo. I’m way too quiet and it makes people uncomfortable.
But even if I could successfully present a front long enough to con someone into falling for me, that’s not what I want. I want to really care for someone, and if I really cared for someone I was deceiving in that way, I think I’d feel terrible about it. I wouldn’t want to do that to someone I cared about. But I don’t see how I could ever risk telling someone, especially when I have no expectation that they’d accept it or even keep it secret.
the sadder thing about poverty is that i actually UNDERSTOOD what was happening to me when i was as young as 7-10 when i was plucked from one school to the next to the next. at 7 i already knew the effects of poverty and the quality of education. and racism. and bullying. and the opportunities that were stolen from me. i say stolen bc it was my mothers decision to pull me from a good school to a mediocre school and then to a crap school.
yes, i figured you were the quiet guy. i never assumed you were a social butterfly. what i assumed was that you could pretend to be outgoing and social and extraverted if you wanted to be. but maybe i’m wrong there.
sorry you were bullied. i wonder what percentage of SPers have been bullied or grew up as loners? I wish there was a poll we could create on here. Many of us wind up on SP for pretty much the same reasons.
*i assumed you could appear extraverted for short moments i mean. like in my case, i can turn it “on” and appear to be extraverted when I am out, during an event. whether it’s a 2hr event or a whole day event (i practiced and worked on this a lot so i could do this). i could do this bc i knew at the end of the day, or whenever i wanted to leave, i could and go back home, decompress, and become the quiet introverted loner again. i can turn on the “extravertedness” for brief bouts if I needed to.
Yeah, I can’t really successfully fake extraversion – I never learned, avoided going to social events as a teenager and in my 20s. I can sometimes do ok talking to someone one-on-one, especially if they give me something to go off for conversation or make the first move. But generally when I feel there’s some pressure or expectation I just freeze up, and the more people you add to any situation the harder it gets. On some subconscious level I’m still terrified of saying the wrong thing and making myself a target (which is obvs counter-productive.)
I’m sure I could improve it if I put enough time and work into it and pushed myself through enough fear and awkward embarrassment. But I kind of feel like what’s the point, if I still won’t be capable of genuine relationships?
that’s true. in your case yeah, i wouldn’t put in the effort. it took SO much effort and work for me to not present as the quiet introvert when i’m out. and the fear and awkwardness and effort needed never leaves- it’s there still- it’s just that i can push through it easier if i wanted to and turn it “on.”