I want so many contradictory, conflicting, impossible things. I want to utterly destroy myself, but I also want to preserve myself for as long as possible. I want to find love, but I also don’t want anyone to ever see me as I really am. I want to save the world, but also to end it all. I want to avoid causing suffering wherever possible, but I also want to selfishly increase the risk of others suffering. I want to put myself out of my misery, but I also want to postpone a worse existence after death. I want a wife and children, but I also don’t want the responsibilities of parenthood. I want to accumulate money, status, & power, while also believing that such things would leave me hollow.
My mind is this constant flux of contradictory attitudes, motivations, and beliefs. I don’t know how to live with it. I wish I could just be one consistent person. Most of all, I want to go back, to before I felt so conflicted. But that’s not possible.
53 comments
I want to be the next hitter and murder as many folks as possible
But I’ll only end up murdering myself. Apparently that is called suicide. Too bad I couldn’t kill more. Hitler would be disappointed in me.
There’s a part of me like that too. It’s honestly not something I’d ever consciously want to act on, but lying in bed half-asleep I often find myself fantasizing about trying to wipe out as many people as possible. I don’t think it’s that I want to cause pain or suffering, but I guess I just have this deep underlying resentment at the world – like if only everyone else was dead, then I somehow wouldn’t have to worry anymore. But acknowledging those feelings to myself makes me feel like such a psycho.
I just wanted throw an idea in here. There is a funny thing about the word suicide. Sure, from the Latin it does mean self murder, but it seems that word was only coined in the last 500 years or so. I am not a historian or a language major either but that is about how the research has gone on it. So since offing our selves has been equated with murder for perhaps 25 generations it seems to be considered self evident truth in the group think of things. If the word itself and maybe even the concept really never existed until quite recently in recorded history, I have to wonder if idea behind it is valid, or just a political convenience or something because some people are trying everything they can to deprive the masses of a right to die. Just a thought.
are you kidding me, CAUSE OF DEATH?
i am JEWISH, and Proud of it!!!!!!!
how dare you post what you just posted????
HITLER murdetred most of my family!!!!!!
you are a RACIST!!!!
SO ANTISEMITISM IS INDEED ALIVE AND WELL AS PROOF BY ONE INDIVIDUAL ON SP WHO JUST COULDN’T HIDE IT ANYMORE. i grew up with it, and i will continue to fight it for as long as i am alive.
@spookichick – I understand your reaction, particularly given recent events, but I didn’t get the sense that CODS comment was an expression of hatred toward Jewish people, so much as hatred toward humanity in general. The Hitler reference seemed to be about any kind of mass murder, rather than the holocaust in particular (they could equally have referenced Pol Pot/Ghengis Khan.) I may be wrong on that, but that’s the reading I had of it.
“hitler would have been disappointed in me”. how can that be interpreted in any other way? seriously. it was a slip. CODS referenced hitler. how can anyone misinterpret that phrase? it speaks volumes. how can you possibly defend that?
I honestly think it was just a throw away comment. When you think of wanting to murder large numbers of innocent people, Hitler is often the first name that comes to mind. I think it’s a reading of Hitler as a homicidal maniac who just wanted to kill as many people as possible, rather than Hitler as someone with a specific antipathy towards the Jews (which I agree is the more historically accurate reading of his motivation.)
As I said, I may be wrong, but I don’t get the sense of CODS as someone animated by a particular hatred toward Jewish people, rather than a general hatred of humanity in it’s entirety (they come across as someone who’s been severely wronged by others). But if you can point me to any other example of their antisemitism then I’m open to revising that view – I may have missed a more general tone in their comments over time.
Again, I understand why you’re on the lookout for any sign of antisemitism, particularly given recent events. I can understand why you found it offensive. I just don’t think that’s what it was actually about, based on the context and from reading their previous comments. I wouldn’t defend it as anything more than a throwaway comment by someone who’s deeply damaged and looking for somewhere to vent some of that.
@spookichick I am sorry for your pain. I have emotionally related since my teen years to the suffering of the German Jews during WWII. I have never consciously thought about why I avoid using the H word in public forums until now. As I plainly see in your words, that H word, and all those other Nazi symbols, can invoke a ton of pain. We don’t see the H word around here often. If we see it again I hope it is used very carefully or not at all.
Ouch spooki ouch. tears
thank you for your support a1957!
i appreciate your kindness a great deal.
HUSK,
feel free to read CODS’ posts from today, and you tell me if he fits the profile.
@spookichick I lost an uncle in Germany in WWII. My uncle was US Army. He died long before I was born, but let me tell you, it left a gaping hole in the family just the same.
Estimates vary but historians tell us that between battle casualties and all the other deaths related to WWII somewhere between 15 to 50 million people perished during that war. I can’t even comprehend that number.
@spookichick Yeah, read them, I still don’t think they fit the profile, though again, I understand why you put them in that box. I just don’t think what they write is coherent enough to express that kind of focused hatred. They seem just generally angry at humanity. There doesn’t seem to be any specific reference to Jews as a people or Jewish stereotypes. Though obviously, if they suddenly start spouting off about the protocols of the elders of zion I’ll owe you an apology.
I know this is an old comment…
Seriously not necessary at all to write comments like that, its offensive.
I am not jewish but I have known and know some…
It seems as though you are fighting a battle between the person you are and the person you are expected to be, according to society’s rules. Which person do you feel more closely resembles what you wish you could exist as?
Which set of ideals appeals to you more, on a gut level? Money, success and status, or the absence of it? It sounds as though you harbor quite a bit of resentment for the world as it is, yet you have an altruistic aspect that is buried under many layers of anger. I’d say that’s the person you are, not the material craving one. We’re all told to acquire and possess and obtain and achieve, and it can be maddening to the point of wishing a holocaust upon all outside forces. Or, to put it simply, “Enough already, will everyone just shut the hell up and please go die?”
How to live with it? That’s difficult, I suppose you need to reach saturation point and just flat out decide to be your true self, everything else be damned. Easier said than done.
Go with your gut. That’s usually the real “you” speaking to you over all the meaningless chatter that says you must be something you’re not able to be. Peel away the husk, and you’ll find the corn. (Ok, that was bad.)
The problem is my feelings on this fluctuate so much over the course of a few days. One minute one set of priorities seem most important, the next a conflicting set has risen to the fore. I’m not sure any is the ‘real me’ over the others. At times altruism feels like the most significant part of me, but a lot of the time various cravings seem crucial instead, even if they conflict with altruism (one example would be continuing to eat meat, despite believing it causes unnecessary suffering .) All of my motivations have aspects that come from outside myself, altruism included. I can’t see that any is particularly more authentic to me than the others, free of external influence. There’s nothing that I could consistently say ‘this is my true self’ without feeling the opposite a few hours later. That’s what’s so terrifying about it – how fickle my perception of the world seems to be. My ‘gut sense’ swings from one pole to another.
Yes, that is a confusing dilemma. Like trying to read a map with no street names. How do you get where you want to be? I wish I had an answer. I experience a similar situation, in that I genuinely enjoy helping people as I go through life, but as a group, view them (us) as a . . . plague, pestilence, bunch of weenies? One on one, people can be worth the effort of caring for, but as a species, well, I prefer animals.
So, yeah, I understand the confusion. But somewhere in there is “you”, lost in the chaos. We all face a similar challenge, and the complexity of the world we are asked to live in is a bit like trying to swim to shore during a raging storm. It’s so easy to never find/know yourself in this insane life. No wonder we’re in the condition we are.
It can help to look for patterns that resonate honesty and integrity to you. Patterns and actions that seem real, even though five minutes later you’re a completely different person. The more you can tune in to and recognize the genuine-ness of these fleeting moments, the more you will begin to discover that they are coming from a place that is not artificial. I suppose it would be a little too new agey to assume that these patterns are always going to be positive or altruistic, but no matter what they are, they will speak to you on a level that just seems and feels right. Good grief, I’m starting to sound like Joel Osteen.
I’ve written a book on this subject, and for $49.99, you can have your own copy. . .
There. Now I’m Joel Osteen. 🙂
You’re “in there.” We’re all “in there.” Its just dark and disorienting, and con-freaking-fusing.
“I genuinely enjoy helping people as I go through life, but as a group, view them (us) as a . . . plague, pestilence, bunch of weenies? One on one, people can be worth the effort of caring for, but as a species, well, I prefer animals.”
–>Exactly. I desire love and friendship from fellow humans, but as a species, I simply despise humans. I honestly think Earth would be better off if homosapiens became extinct.
Hmmm, I guess I just feel like ‘I’ am the chaos. Some things seem true to me a lot of the time, but not so much that I’m ever confident in them, or able to completely discard the alternative view. As for integrity…I just have no idea how to live with any, given the stuff that goes through my head. What feels completely right to me in one moment can strike me as awful and repellent the next. I don’t think there’s anything that seems entirely good at some point that doesn’t strike me as deeply problematic at another time.
I think I may have just managed to put myself in the rare position where whatever I do, it’s wrong. Continuing to live is wrong. Killing myself is wrong. Involving myself in the lives of others is wrong. Failing to pursue a meaningful life is wrong. No matter what I do, I’m screwed. And yet I still have to make some kind of choice, and stick to it over time. I guess I’ll probably just continue to vacillate back and forth until I run out of road.
Just googled Joel Osteen. He seems to have somewhat confused religious views, but hey, if it makes people happy, I guess there are worse things to be selling.
I totally understand the conflict. The duality of our thinking. Positive, negative, up, down, and there’s rarely any continuity. And through all this, we’re expected to act and be appropriate by society’s sick, skewed standards.
I think we exacerbate it by over analyzing it. It seems to me, at least in my life and the situations I’ve been in and experienced, that a key to relative contentment is to just roll with the punches and accept fate. I can’t do that. I have to spend my days raging against the machine and demanding answers, only to find none.
Being in a position, like you say, where everything is wrong. . . insanity 101, right? Maybe accept credit for making the best “bad” decisions while you’re always making bad decisions, or always doing the wrong things. I mean, here you are, you’ve obviously done several things less-wrong to get to this point, so that speaks for some sort of wisdom, if not integrity.
“a key to relative contentment is to just roll with the punches and accept fate. I can’t do that. I have to spend my days raging against the machine…”
–That’s me right there.
Rage Against the Machine – gotta cue one of those songs up!
@once Yep. In the words of pretty much everyone who’s ever known me ‘You think to much.’ And yet it often feels crucially important to analyse everything, to try and understand what’s really going on, even if it makes me miserable. It’s like I’m addicted to noticing uncomfortable truths.
Yes, my defense will be ‘Hey, I know I screwed up, but think how much worse I could have made things!’
Joel Osteen? I hope you’re not a fan of his. During the hurricane, he refused to open the doors of his church to people, when people were at the most desperate and in need of a warm, dry shelter. Great guy he is. Another televangelist who preaches what he does not practice.
His books should be worth what he is actually worth, $0.01. No more.
Not a fan, just being a clown, and citing the irony of capitalism meshing with self-help AND religion – the truth can be yours, IF you line my pockets, because everyone knows even knowledge that potentially can help must be sold, not given.
Yeah, I thought you might be being sarcastic, but I figured I ought to let people know that Joel Osteen is a piece of crap, for those who don’t know who he is.
I think and feel much of the same that you do. Is it contradictory? On the surface you might think that, but scratch an inch and you’ll see ithey’re not contradictory at all.
“I want to utterly destroy myself, but I also want to preserve myself for as long as possible.”
–>When you’re utterly dissatisfied with your life, you want to end it (as so I and as so many of us here on SP). But we also have a biological imperative in our DNA to keep on, be alive as long as possible, and sew our genetic seeds.
“I want to find love, but I also don’t want anyone to ever see me as I really am.”
–>Same. We all want love, but we are also afraid that we let anyone in, they’d “find out” who we really are and be disgusted. And reject us.
“I want to save the world, but also to end it all.”
–>Same here. I’ve always wanted the world to be a better place, so I want to “save it” as well but I’m deeply disappointed in humans to the point where I’ve really given up on humanity, so I kind of want the world to end it as well.
“I want to avoid causing suffering wherever possible, but I also want to selfishly increase the risk of others suffering.”
–>While I wouldn’t want to physically harm people en mass via my own hands, I do understand the desire for mother nature or some cataclysmic event to obliterate Earth (or at least all humans). We feel so much pain that we kind of want other people to feel a little bit of it too, so that they’d understand. And why is it that we have to suffer so much while they don’t?
“I want to put myself out of my misery, but I also want to postpone a worse existence after death.”
–>Many people on SP want to end it, but are afraid of hell or being reborn and having to do it all over again.
“I want a wife and children, but I also don’t want the responsibilities of parenthood.”
–>That’s just called being smart lol. Lots of people feel the same way. Unfortunately, there’s many more who should feel that too instead of popping out tons of babies.
“I want to accumulate money, status, & power, while also believing that such things would leave me hollow.”
–>Lots of people have that want / belief too. We all want to be successful, and what success is defined by current standards is money, status, power etc. What we really want is a “good life” – make enough money to buy whatever it is you want / need without having to worry, we want to be loved, we want our lives to have meaning, etc. So obviously “success” as defined by many humans is going to be unfulfilling and hollow.
I feel many of the things you do, and I would say many SPers as well (minus the increase others’ suffering part), so you’re not alone in your thoughts. A lot of it isn’t really contradictory.
Yeah, I can see that to some extent it’s a part of the human condition. And people here are more likely to experience it in regards to thoughts of suicide. It does seem like people in general are far less troubled by it though – they seem to have a way of resolving such conflicts and then mentally blocking off whatever path they didn’t take – so that their choices become their ‘true self’. I seem to have lost that ability, perhaps because of things that I’ve done in my life that have made me unable to escape how deep that conflict is – I can’t see either side as my ‘true self’, because both are integral and yet opposed. And I just don’t know how to manage that dissonance.
“It does seem like people in general are far less troubled by it though – they seem to have a way of resolving such conflicts and then mentally blocking off whatever path they didn’t take…”
–>Heh, certainly feels like “happy” people have the best ability to block everything off
Happiness often seems to be the result of avoidance and denial. If there is a better way to look at it I would consider that. But for now, yeah.
I know, I’m so annoyed by that. To be happy, I would have to deny reality and facts, and stick my head in the sand, which I cannot do. I never realized how true the saying “ignorance is bliss” really was. Sigh.
Goddamn well-adjusted people with their ability to mentally screen out the more troubling aspects of reality! I envy them, and yet if there was a pill that could give me that I don’t think I’d take it.
“Happiness often seems to be the result of avoidance and denial.”
@a1957 – Exactly. I’m not entirely convinced of the avoidance part, but the “happiest” people I’ve seen are generally “normies” that just deny their right to question and exist in a perpetual state of there being really nothing wrong. Everything is as its supposed to be. Hmmm. Well, ok, if that gets them through the day. I suppose they’re fortunate to have that perspective, but that ain’t me, I ain’t no senators son. (Old people reference.) I’m doomed to think and over analyze.
Normies seem to exist in a state of either nothing is wrong or if it is, it just happened all by itself.
Belief: “the car just broke down”
Reality: eventual result of some long neglected routine maintenance
Belief: “I just don’t know why my son is always sick and can’t do his schoolwork. ”
Reality: poor prenatal self care
Anyway, I haven’t read the comments but fresh slate.. are you religious? You say you want to postpone a worse state after death.. what makes you think There will be a worse state? If so I must have died when I overdosed 2 years ago LMAO. Worst state I can imagine is the pain whilst approachIng death for example OD or bullet to brain the split second you are alive and feel the bullet enter .. I use to fear that split second pain but then I was like NEH, STILL WORTH IT,
Yikes get me out of this HELL
I’m not religious now, but I was raised with religion. I find it hard to understand why a God would allow people to go to hell for all eternity, but I still have that deep fear that I will be judged and horribly punished for my actions.
While I can imagine a lot of horrible ways to die, I can also imagine being kept alive in a worse state for all eternity – imagine being constantly in that state of terror, agony, and hopelessness, forever, with no end possible. That’s my picture of hell. And I do fear it, even though I don’t rationally believe in it.
How do you know that your punishment hasn’t already been doled out, and that this life here on Earth, is your hell / punishment? Or worse yet, when you die, you get reborn and have to do this all over again, endlessly, kind of like Sisyphus and his stone.
Not to be depressing and bring you down, and not that I believe in religion or the afterlife either…but this *could* be possible. I’ve thought that perhaps this life on Earth IS my punishment. Although, a punishment without the person knowing why they were being punished seems rather stupid to me. Anyway, just a rambling, though possible, thought.
Well, I figure if I can imagine it being significantly worse, it ain’t hell. However sad, lonely, fearful, and uncomfortable my life might be at times, it could be so much worse. I see good people going through much worse on a daily basis. If this is my punishment, then I got off easy!
Now if this kind of existence was to go on indefinitely, with no way out, then I might change my mind. But if I wasn’t aware of it, and just got reborn over and over to live the same life without knowing it…well, so far it could be a lot worse!
Have you seen the Black Mirror episode ‘White Bear’? Your last comment made me think of that. I can’t see how punishment could serve any purpose if the person being punished can’t learn from it, outside of a society that needs to deter or gain retribution for crime. But I still fear that kind of endless, purposeless punishment, because on some level I feel I deserve it. I fear judgement without mercy or pity, because on some level I don’t feel I deserve that.
Have not watched that show or episode. That’s the reason I never believed in reincarnation. It makes no sense to punish someone if the person being punished doesn’t show he/she has been punished and for what wrongdoing. Then wouldn’t that person do that wrong thing all over again? Punishment whilst erasing memory is not productive. Unless, all you want is to punish the person via despair over and over again for the sake of simply making the person feel despair and pain, over and over again, and wondering “why??” The Sisyphus example, or the constantly reliving of a tortured life, would chip at someone’s “soul” (if there was such a thing). To some, that would be the ultimate punishment.
Can def. recommend Black Mirror for fans of dystopia/worrying thought experiments.
I think generally the idea of reincarnation/rebirth isn’t so much a ‘punishment’, so much as something you’re doing to your ‘soul’- it keeps getting reborn until it works out whatever it is you were missing/screwing up. It works off the bad karma in a new life. I guess since you’re not the same person or in the same situation in that next life you’re not doomed to make the same mistakes? But it doesn’t make much sense to me either.
I believe Sisyphus was aware of his never-ending fate, which is what made it tortuous – otherwise a futile day of rock-pushing would be no biggie. But I can still imagine it being worse – suppose while trying to push his rock he was constantly being set on fire, or torn apart by wild beasts. There’s an infinite variety of ways you could suffer if someone really put effort into it. Give me rock-pushing any day.
lol, I see you’ve given eternal torment a good amount of thought. 😛
Nope, the whole concept of reincarnation seems bunk to me. Getting reborn until we fix something? You can’t fix something if you don’t know what “it” is that you got wrong. Or is missing. Work off the bad karma? Nah, that sounds like propaganda spread by the wealthy elites- you are poor and struggling because you must of been bad in a previous life, and thus you have to pay your dues in this life. So stop complaining and stop fighting for fair wages and fair opportunities. And we the wealthy must be good for surely if we were bad, we wouldn’t have been born wealthy.
Hmmm, maybe if you just go round the cycle enough times eventually you just work it out, or find what is missing? Or your ‘soul’ improves a little bit each time you go round. But yeah, it does seem like woo. Like all religion really – things that sound emotionally comforting, until you think about it too much, and it all falls apart.
It is awfully convenient how often religion justifies the status quo – ‘to he that hath much shall more be given’ etc. It’s almost like religions were socially constructed by political elites or something, rather than being accurate reflections on reality.
No, not having memory of why one is being punished is what doesn’t make sense. How can you go round the cycle enough times to eventually work “it” out when you don’t know what “it” is? It makes no sense. And the assumption that your ‘soul’ improves a little bit each time is also a bit presumptious- how do you know that that soul isn’t getting a bit more tarnished more and more each cycle? That’s as likely to occur as the nice scenario of the soul getting more and more cleansed. (p.s. not attacking you btw, it’s just that everyone assumes what you assume, the pollyanna-ish view that people will go through the cycle enough times that the soul gets cleansed or better, which has no logical basis).
I DO very much agree with you how convenient that religion is in justifying and maintaining the status quo. Almost like how the people at the top use religion to try and control the masses. Just oddly coincidental eh? Been like that for centuries. How oddly convenient for the elites. How convenient indeed.
Seems like your inner conflict is quite popular today. 😛
Yes, it’s weird how some posts attract comments and some just go totally dead.
My inner conflict told me to have some wine.
Mmmm, probably can’t hurt too much (unless you’re ‘on the wagon’.) Enjoy 🙂
But where’s the conflict? Should you pair it with a nice medium-rare steak, or a delicate pairing of cheeses?
Oh certainly a delicate pairing of cheeses. ?
DID SOMEONE SAY CHEESE?!