Hello.
I’m not suicidal, folks–that much I’ll be honest about right now.
I’m a college student have my bad days, sure…
But from what I’ve read here, medical maladies notwithstanding, my worst days are likely better than some of yours.
So I’m not going to lie to you all and pretend I’m something and someone I’m not.
I ONLY JOINED THIS SITE TO LISTEN TO YOU, AND TO TALK TO WHOEVER WANTS SOMEONE TO TALK TO…
AND NOT BE JUDGED.
So I’ll be upfront about who I actually AM:
Like I said, .I’m college-aged..
I’m an English Major, with an AA Degree in that field…
I’d like to be a write someday…
My favorite authors are Shakespeare, Homer, Milton, T.S. Eliot, and D.H. Lawrence…
I’m into philosophy–Plato, Nietzsche, Aristotle, Hume…they may conflict, but I like many ideas, many voices
I read some posts by people here.
Ms. Jess, causeways, feelingblue, TheGoodGirl:
I’m sorry about your pets, all of them.
None of you should be ashamed.
Or guilty.
You loved your cats and dogs…and there in lies the beginning and end of it.
You loved them, and death meets us all–I am not one to absolve you of guilt or sadness.
Only you can do that.
And you’re not cowards, any of you.
my e-mail is kirkscottychekov@yahoo.com
If anyone doesn’t want to post here, or talk to me on here.
Again, just here to be an ear, and to talk, if anyone wants to.
Doesn’t have to be about suicide, or life…
You can say anything you want to.
Good luck, folks–and know someone out there is rooting for you all, though he has never seen any of you…
Please–if nothing else, root for yourself…believe in yourself.
I do.
25 comments
The problem is that that concepts such as ‘belief’ and ‘hope’ are duplicitous in the early stages of depression – the world is so perverse that it abuses these things to whip one further along the road to despair. There is no belief – it is only something one clings to before one realises that it is damaging and then one lets it go. Similarly with hope, there is no hope, there is only the letting go of hope. It counts only as a measure of despair at the moment of its departure.
I agree–losing belief in oneself or hope can be very damaging.
But neither are poor or wrong intrinsically…
All “belief” is is your feeling something to be true, or even just wanting it to be true.
It doesn’t have to be happy.
It doesn’t have to be positive.
It doesn’t even have to be rational.
I have a belief every year my New York Mets are going to win the World Series…
And they lose close to 90 games every time. 🙂
Believing in onseself is a lot harder than believing in a baseball team…
But you get a lot more good out of it.
It’s only hollow or clinging to something derelict and damaging when it’s negative.
And so much of the worlld IS negative…
But belief in yourself isn’t–and you’re not either, I’d say, which is why I would also say you’re not hopeless.
Those beyond hope can’t articulate thoughts as masterfully as you have above.
“It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche
You may be in a terrible depth…I don’t doubt it.
But so long as you have the ability to speak like that, and to care for the others on this site, as I’ve seen you do, you deserve to reach that heighest height.
I want to see you do it…the world can be perverse, and life can be terrible.
But there’s always the possibility, the hope it’ll be good, that it can be good.
Look at this site–already there’s one good in your life, some who care about you enough to write such moving messages to a total stranger…
The world can be dark–but it isn’t a hopeless endeavor to hope.
If it’s only “a moment of despair at the moment of its departure,” imagine how blorious it is in its return.
And it CAN return…I don’t think you’re hopeless…
I don’t see how the ability to articulate relates to the possibility of hope. On the contrary, the ability to fully understand what is happening to oneself, to be able to explain it, is a more pronounced form of torture. Because it means that education, empathy, eloquence – all of these count for no more than an animal cry in the face of cruelty. My ability to understand what I’m going through compounds my pain rather than alleviating it in any way. It’s better to remain silent, pretend to be dumb, and take what they’re dishing out with a pride of silence.
I don’t think your eloquence counts for only an animal cry in the face of cruelty…
So long as you’re willing to speak as clearly as you have spoken, and as long as people are willing to listen to that speech, even if it’s just people over the Internet, it’s not a mere cry in the dark.
It counts for something.
It’s a positive.
And it’s a sign you’re not beyond hope.
Sometimes, yes, I agree:
It would be nice not to know all of the horrible things that we can come to know in a lifetime.
It would be better if they never happened, perhaps.
But the fact you can understand your pain also means you at least have the chance of conquering it as well. It may happen, it may not (obviously, hopefully, it does, I hope you do overcome and conquer it) but understanding and acceptance are the first steps towards any healing…
If were never so cognizant, you maybe could have had bliss in ignorance.
On the other hand, you may have still felt pain, and not known how to express it, how to ask for help, or how to help others.
That you can do all this…
That you can at least try, that you have at least the potential–
It makes your “animal cry” into so much more…and, by extension, it means you, still, are so much more than you give yourself credit for…
There is nothing you can say or do to prevent me killing myself. I discovered long ago that actions count for much more than words; in fact, I am tired of words as they can be twisted to mean anything. Language is ambiguous and is too often a useless tool for those are depressed.
I no longer regard myself as part of the human species. I have already made my leap into the dark; my body is slow to follow and I despise its cowardice.
My suicide will be an eloquent enough statement of my despair and my disgust at the world.
Well, I joined this site, not because I’m suicidal–at all–but because I wanted to talk to you, and to people like you; I could’ve just read all your posts and left it at that, but I wanted to talk to you.
So, it may not be a big action…but that’s an action, at least, nonetheless…
Language is ambiguous, and language can be twisted. (I know, I’m an English major…I see the written word get twisted around every day.) 😉
I’m truly sorry you don’t regard yourself as a member of the human race.
I do–and as much as I can’t prevent you from killing yourself, you can’t prevent me from viewing you as the intelligent human being that you ARE.
As for your “cowardice,” it is anything but:
Strugglign with the issue of life and death is one of the things that define us as human beings, that make us human–
And it is those people who struggle with it most, and who share and articulate and contemplate their feelings on it the most, who are the most heroic, as they venture somewhere most never go…even if you’re forced to think of such things by terrible circumstances, even still, it’s an act of heroism for the human race, nonetheless, to stop and consider life and death.
One of my two namesakes, Hamlet, spends his entire play worrying and wondering about life and death…
“To be or not to be…that is the question…”
It’s a question we all face.
I have no doubt that someone of your eloquence could leave this world thusly.
I only hope you stay in it long enough to realize how significant you are, and that the world itself may be uncaring, but people do care.
Eloquence, by the way, is NOT just an “animal cry.”
It is so much more–and you are so much more than you give yourself credit for, whatever may come.
“And it is those people who struggle with it most, and who share and articulate and contemplate their feelings on it the most, who are the most heroic, as they venture somewhere most never go…”
In watching his patient storm the castle in the air, the psychiatrist observed to the banker that a forclosure order would be a much more effective means of assault.
A cruel means of assault, to be sure.
But there is more than the castle in the air, so to speak…
And it isn’t going anywhere–
The psychiatrist and banker might do well to leave the patient alone…
But the patient, too, must remember that the assault on that castle is a final one…”The Undiscovered country,” to quote Hamlet again.
May I ask, if it’s none too intrusive:
What is your life like?
Do you go to school? Or play an instrument? Or write?
(I think you’d make a great writer, for whatever that may be worth…)
I can’t appraise your life as clearly as you, who have lived it, can…and yet I cannot help feeling sorrow someone so contemplative and talented and caring for others on this site–from all I’ve seen in, what, the entire 12 hours I’ve seen it–is NOT someone who deserves death…who should yet be bound for that castle in the sky…
fwiw, causeway, I also have a very positive opinion of you based on your posts and I hope you’ll stick around. You are helpful and smart.
I have no more talent for writing than I have for living.
Stop quoting Hamlet – it’s annoying to be reminded of another loser.
My life is shit. I’m broke, in debt. I look after elderly fractious parents. I haven’t had a girlfriend for years. I read voraciously and it’s the only thing that keeps me alive – the most comfort I found was in the works of despair artists like Cornell Woolrich and David Goodis. But it was only trigger comfort, confirming all my worst fears. I love music, I love film. I am past the point where I can concentrate long enough to appreciate them.
I am not here for my health. I have made my decision. I am waiting for someone to post an easy, reliable method of killing oneself, as I don’t want to fail. When that happens I’ll be dead within a day. Failing that I will make do with the exit bag.
I don’t quote Hamlet to make you feel like a loser…I don’t think Hamlet was a loser, jsut like I don’t feel you are.
But OK. 🙂
You have talent-enough writing-wise to have written all of this, and please, let me tell you:
I tutor for English at my college…and you write WELL. There are people who do have trouble writing, who lack writing skills–you don’t. You ahve them, and what’s more, you have a good deal of skill…again, for whatever it’s worth, you DO have something, something tangible…
Those without a talent for writing, or an ability to comprehend it, generally don’t use “fractious” in their sentences…
I’ve never had a girlfriend…and if you’re broke for money, maybe you could offer tutoring for English? I made some good money doing that this semester, by myself, self-employed, free of the college’s tutoring center…
I’m just saying, you still have abilities and things you CAN do, if you choose…
Sherlock, I suspect you are rather younger than I am. To you the world appears to be a place of possibilities, upon which you can project your desired outcome, a spin, as it were. For me the world consists of pre-determined outcomes, the pre-determination reached by others. My life is like a scientific model that has already been disproved and forgotten. It will not be revisited in my lifetime.
Teaching for a living is out of the question – the rules say I cannot teach because, while I do have a degree, I do not have the further bits of paper which would legally allow me to pass that knowledge onto others. And, as I am posting here, I am rather unstable and would deem it an act of irresponsibility to place myself in the company of students.
Since you are a reader the only thing I can do to give you an insight into my mindset is to recommend a novel to you – Keep the Aspidistra Flying by George Orwell. Mark Comstock’s lowest ebb in that novel, and you will know where I am.
Hello there Sherlock. 🙂
I appreciate the kind words. You seem like a nice, caring person. Much like me, with a bit of a Superman complex. You want to help all of these people and stop them from killing themselves. I feel the same way when I read all of their stories. However, sometimes there’s nothing you can do. It’s their life and they’ve made the decision to take it. I’ve told causeway more or less that I wouldn’t like the idea of him killing himself. I don’t even know him, and yet the idea of him taking his life upsets me. I probably shouldn’t even have said that because I don’t want him to feel quilty when he does “succeed”. Assuming he’d feel quilty, again, I don’t know the guy. I would feel quilty, but that’s me.
As for me, joining this website and just simply talking to the few people that I have, gave me hope to continue on. They understood me. They didn’t judge me. They weren’t cruel.
I don’t think by any means that I’m cured. That I’ll never feel down again. But for now I know I can come here and I’ll be listened to. So thanks for listening.
Thanks for adding me on your post. it almost makes me feel special in a way lol. But really, it’s heart warming that you truly want to help people. I guess so do I in a way, by helping people you help yourself no? It’s like a give and take, you put a little of your time and there’s some recompense. I joined this site over a year ago and left and came back just a couple days ago really. I erased all my previous posts trying to forget I even joined the site and now I feel bad that I did because I shared a lot of insightful conversations with a lot of interesting people that now I wish I could look back upon. I guess the second time around that i joined I’m not really looking for an “answer” I’m just looking to be upon people who understand. Sometimes you don’t need to comprehend everything, you just need support.
Thanks for mentioning that we’re not cowards. I honestly believe that if anyone out there is still living and breathing, regardless of their physical or emotional state, it’s out of the will to live, some sort of innate bravery. Of course, feeling that way is not always guaranteed -__-
Like Bjork said, there’s definitely no logic in human behavior.
“I honestly believe that if anyone out there is still living and breathing, regardless of their physical or emotional state, it’s out of the will to live, some sort of innate bravery.”
I agree with that statement. But I don’t think you could convince everyone here to believe that, unfortunately. When you’re in such a terrible state of mind, you can’t even recognize the will to live.
Well, hopefully, if nothing else, we can talk to some people…
And if people must die, maybe they won’t die so alone and so unhappy as they would have otherwise…you only get one life–it must end, if should at least end peacefully, maybe even with a last moment of joy.
Yep and I will continue to do so.
That’s certainly a good way to look at it. Having one last moment of joy. If they recognize one moment of joy, they could possibly hold out for more moments of joy. Not sure if that’s just me being too optimistic about it though.
If I may ask, TheGoodGirl, about you…?
Whatever you want to talk about, who you are, what you like, how you came to be here (I’ll be honest, I was just Googling “suicide” because I heard on Conan that Google lists the Suicide Prevention Hotline if you do, plus I’m writing a book, and the subject’s interested me as an English major–after all, it’s part of what Hamlet’s strugglign with, “to be or not to be, that is the question”–and this popped up first or so, and I started reading stories, and decided I wanted to talk to you guys, if anyone wanted someone to talk to that wasn’t themself suicidal or a psychiatrist or anything…so I’m sort of like a fish out of water for a lot of the stuff here…)
And that’d be my hope too, that one moment of joy could, maybe, help someone to hang on…but even if they died, they shouldn’t ahve to die and die sadly and alone and miserably…
Well, have you read my post titled “No guts”? I only ask because I’d hate to re-type all of that which was previously typed. haha I could always use cut and paste. But it’s easier for you to just go and read it. So if you haven’t, do, and then I can tell you about anything else.
I read Hamlet in 12th grade and memorized the to be or not to be speech. And I wasn’t even depressed then. Not sure what that says about me. That’s why I came here, because I don’t have money for therapy, lol.
OK, I’ll go read it…what day is it under?
LOL…
Hamlet, needless to say, is my favorite character of my favorite play of my favorite author…The Greatest Work in Western CiviliZation…
And it’s all about a college-aged guy who’s struggling with the matters of life and death, isn’t that strong, is just a guy trying to cope.
And he ALSO worries about being a coward, or not being up to it…
But Shakespeare’s clever in HOW he shows this…
He questions whether or not to kill the King, to kill himself, for 4 acts…and THEN he meets Fortinbras, who is ready, with his men…
To die for a land that means absolutely NOTHING. And THIS makes Hamlet feel ashamed, because he’s hesitated so long in acting, but as the audience…well, it shows through–it doesn’t make sense to throw your life away on what Hamlet himself admits is really nothing at all…
But he’s so desperate at that point, so horribly ashamed at the sight of someone taking action–even pretty meaningless and stupid action, to die over land that means nothing just to call yourself “brave”–that he decides to go home and kill the King, even though he knows, in the back of his mind, all of this violence is just more insanity…
He can’t help it–because someone, the King CALLS him a coward, at the start…and he feels insecure in part because of it.
And ever three parts coward, I do not know
Why yet I live to say ‘This thing’s to do;’
Sith I have cause and will and strength and means
To do’t. Examples gross as earth exhort me:
Witness this army of such mass and charge
Led by a delicate and tender prince,
Whose spirit with divine ambition puff’d
Makes mouths at the invisible event,
Exposing what is mortal and unsure
To all that fortune, death and danger dare,
Even for an egg-shell. Rightly to be great
Is not to stir without great argument,
But greatly to find quarrel in a straw
When honour’s at the stake. How stand I then,
That have a father kill’d, a mother stain’d,
Excitements of my reason and my blood,
And let all sleep? while, to my shame, I see
The imminent death of twenty thousand men,
That, for a fantasy and trick of fame,
Go to their graves like beds, fight for a plot
Whereon the numbers cannot try the cause,
Which is not tomb enough and continent
To hide the slain? O, from this time forth,
My thoughts be bloody, or be nothing worth!
“Hamlet,” Act IV, Scene 4.
He was horribly confused–but not a coward…it’s the King’s fault for shaming him.
So don’t let anyone shame you! 🙂
(OK, that was long, sorry about that, I’ll go find that page now…)
Just go to my post “Moss..” on the front page and click on the comment button. Then click on my name TheGoodGirl. There my 3 posts are listed and you can click on No Guts.
Wow, I pretty much forgot all of that. I need a refresher on Hamlet. But you pretty much just gave me a refresher. Thanks for typing all of that. Haha. Where are you from, by the way? What time is it for you right now?
For me, right now, it is 10:47pm as I type that time right there…
I live in Los Angeles County, about an 1-2.5 hours from the Big City Herself, LA, depending on traffic.
And if you want to talk about Hamlet, or Shakespeare at all…I’m the guy. 😉
I’ve acted (Polonius the play, Demetrius in a scene from “A Midsummer Night’s Dream,” Edgar in a scene from “King Lear,” and right now I’m in rehearsals as Tranio for a production of “The Taming of the Shrew” my old high school theatre friends are putting on)…
I own SEVEN Shakespeare plays on DVD…
I’ve taken Honors Shakespeare, two courses–one for the Tragedies and Histories, one for the Comedies, Romances, and Sonnets–in college, A’s in both…
I use Shakespeare a TON in my papers for class–I’m JUST about your age, so yeah, on an age-levl, you and I are in the same boat 🙂 –and I’m known as “The Shakespeare Guy” on campus…I even have the skull of Yorick from the “Alas, poor Yorick!” speech on my business cards for the English tutoring I do!…
AND I have the Complete Works of Shakespeare THREE TIMES–once in my Android for on-the-go, once in a four-volume set for classes, and once in a gold-paged, hard-bound copy from Barnes and Noble (if you like Shakespeare, I recommend it, it’s only $20.)
So yeah…if you’re into literature, especially Shakespeare, I can talk about that ON END…so whenever you’re feeling lonely, if you want to chat about literature, I’d absolutely love to.
But anyway, enough about, me…I READ YOUR POST…
Hence my knowing you’re about as old as I am. 🙂
I know you said that you weren’t enthusiastic about college…
I’d urge you to reconsider that, I think you’d like it, if you like writing and literature…
I’m an English major, it’s NOT like HS…you don’t have to worry about cliques, or any of that nonsense…you hang out with who you want to, who shares your interests…
I spend most of my time in the English area, with my English major friends, and with the friendly English/Literature professors.
And it’s a nice way of feeling a sense of belonging, like you’re NOT alone, that people care…
You’re not a failure at 20.
You’re NOT.
A lot of people who went on to great things were in tough spots at 20…
Virignia Woolf, for one–I think you might like her as an author; obviously she’s a female author and has a lot of femlae protagonists, but aside from that, Woolf writes a lot about depression, and isolation, and what that feels like…and she herself struggled with depression her entire life…
But she was by no means a failure–she was one of the bravest and most important novelists of the last century! 🙂
It may seem that things are bad, that you have no prospects, that life’s a failure… just remember:
No one’s a failure as long as they even want to be a success…even if you don’t feel you have the strength to be, or the courage, or whatever it may be, as long as you ahve the DESIRE to be successful, by whatever standard of success you hold, you are NOT a failure, but one merely trying to find success.
And the search for that is harder for some than it is for others…and some never try at all!
As long as you TRY, as long as you WANT to try, you’re not without hope, you’re not out of time, out of prospects, done with life…you’re not a failure.
And you’re not a coward, either–Hamlet’s called a coward by King Claudius at the start, remember, and worries the whole way through that just because he’s thinking and not acting, he is one.
And, again, it’s not true–as Hamlet tragically shows, sometimes, it’s the courage NOT to act, or to be rash, the courage to think about the difficult things in life, rather than rush towards a conclusion that’s eternal and leaves you eternally silent and with no chance to ever try again…
It’s the courage Hamlet has to acknowledge his fears and battle them that defines him as much as his indecision does.
It’s your abiulity to articulate and want to be happy and want to be successful, rather than just give in, that defines you as well, and defines you POSITIVELY.
🙂
Well, I probably wrote way too much (again) so I’ll leave it at that, and if you want to talk about anything more, please, by all means…
Oh, as a final addendum:
*I* am having a hard time finding a job, too.
So are my friends.
One of them was in the army for years, and he’s having trouble getting one, too.
That’s just the economy right now; as long as you WANT a job and WANT to succeed, at whatever it is you want to do and be in life–what DO you want to do and be? If you’re not sure, what are some things you enjoy?–you shouldn’t take it as a sign of anything else, it’s not a sign of your being a “loser,” it’s just the way things are right now.
I WILL say this–*I* get some work and money by tutoring freelance, since, as you can see, I REALLY love English and Literature…I made a few hundred dollars doing that this semester, and I can tell you, a LOT of people need help–maybe you could offer and try adn do that, if you wanted… just place an add in the paper, or go to a local school you went to, and ask the teachers about it…it’s worth a shot, if you’re interested.
I hope you DO try and go to college, I think you’d like it…
And if you ever needed help with English–you know someone to ask! 🙂
Well, I started this at 10:47pm, it says, and now it’s 11:17pm–so I’ve spent a half hour typing this! Probably wAY too much, I’m sure…
But in any case, all the best, and if you want to talk more…I’m always online. 😉
You certainly did write a lot but I read it all. I live in New Jersey, if you were wondering. And it’s 2:30 am here right now. I would definitely like to converse about other things, but as it is so late where I’m at I’ll save that for another day.
I was actually going to say, before you pointed it out, if I ever needed help with anything Shakespeare I know who to find. Haha :]
You’re passion for him and Hamlet is pretty amazing. Are you planning on teaching someday or just being a writer? If I had a teacher in high school that was that passionate about the plays we read I would have definitely had more fun.
The problem is I don’t know what to do and be. I know I like writing and music and films. I like helping people. I just can’t decide on a career.
The economy is very bad and I wish I could at least get hired so I can start saving money. I didn’t get into college right away because I wasn’t sure about my life and I wanted to be *very* sure before I put myself in debt. I will consider it though. I already am.
“sometimes, it’s the courage NOT to act, or to be rash, the courage to think about the difficult things in life, rather than rush towards a conclusion that’s eternal and leaves you eternally silent and with no chance to ever try again…”
This is an excellent point. You get an A for bringing that up. lol I feel that way, deep down. Like I said about being sure before I just jump into things, like college.
Virginia Woolf, I have heard of her before, but I don’t recall ever reading anything that she’s written. I should read something of hers. Got any suggestions?
Thanks for making me feel like I’m not a failure. I really needed a confidence boost because I get shot down easily – and stay down. I don’t take rejection very well. If I don’t get things right the first time I tend to pretty much give up.
I definitely want things out of life, sometimes I just get stuck and don’t know how to get myself there.
With that, I say, Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow, that I shall say good night till it be morrow.
Good for you.
You remind me of who I was back then. I missed that my old self, and it’s hard to bring her back.