I think of it as sleeping and never waking. The only problem is that for the past 38 years I have always woken up the next morning. Wish someone could say what’s on the other side. Bet it would make a lot of people’s choices of living or dying easier.
I think your a long time dead so whats the rush??ive watched over a couple of relatives as they shuffled of this mortal coil and it didnt look like much fun..i think when your gone=nothing just my opinion for what its worth
if i woke up like a baby and had to redo it….i hope like hell that it would be totally different from what i’ve lived. if not then i would be right back here at SP
@uttilini yes but i dont believe in it just have an open mind to others beliefs im an atheist but i will go to church when someone dies or is married its about respect but back to death..if anyone knew would we all be here chatting??
Yeah I mean I am agnostic and I am pretty open to others religious beliefs. Well I mean to a point. If someone starts preaching their religion at me in a zealous way I will try to get away from them in a big hurry.
I don’t think of the universe in terms of it being driven or ruled over or being presided over. Are there predictable actions and reactions that can be demonstrated over and over again? Yes. But are they driven by something? I don’t believe they are.
I understand what u r sayin utti, but i differ somewhat. Agree there is no man-like being etc presiding, but there is AN ENERGY of “some” intelligence driiving / creating the universe.
In my world, its the equivalent of a super intelligent geek metaphorically speaking (sorry higher energy, dont zap me! lol).
If you find a expensive digitial watch down the street, you may not know its owner or origins or even how it is put togther, but by evidince of its existence in front of you (much like the universe) we can thru some insight & deduction, infer someone of ‘some intelligence’ was behind creating it?
The universe, the billions of stars, the billions of planets, the billions of life forms …. didnt ‘just happen’ like magic. Magic is usually just something we dont understand ….. so too is the universe.
Too me, god is akin to a ‘higher level of awareness’ beyond the everyday ~ which is what the various so called prophets reached when they saw thru what is essentially the illusion of life, both good and bad are not lasting and largely temporal in our minds.
But of both are an illusion, we must ask which way is best to live?
A few simple rules that all follow the same principles, just differently said and differently relevant ~
a) None awareness cannot create awareness (all life has varying levels of awareness – plain rocks do not hence plain rocks cannot create awareness/consciousness)
b) Nothing can create something (a rock, a sun, a planet, a book, a satellite – all came from something) – we can all debate who/when & why till the cows come home.
This world is a test, thats all. But it is us that tests ourselves and passes/fails ourselves most.
All the universe comes ‘from something’ – the source of that something is what we call God/Creator etc … who made the original something?
Its a bit like what came first – the chicken or the egg? Think about it? It’s unsolvable mostly by simple logic , and yet the chicken is still here.
Enjoy & ponder a bit …. insight & debate is always welcome 🙂
My dad used to say that same thing about the watch and I’d say ‘yeah when it says “Quartz” on it you can see it was made.’ lol I think something like a squid is much more complex than some watch. But do I think there is a factory somewhere making squid? No I do not.
“All the universe comes ‘from something’ – the source of that something is what we call God/Creator etc … who made the original something?”
Why does it have to be a “WHO”? How about “What?” because let me tell you not everyone thinks there is a creator/who behind it. You make that assumption. I mean that is your premise without considering any other possibility. And that is your right but we do disagree and we can leave it at that because you are right we could argue until the cows come home. DO I want to? Not necessarily. I don’t like waiting for cows. You believe there is a sentient creator of the universe(s) I am inclined to believe that there is not.
I’m with Utti on this – that in trillions of years with trillions of stars and planets – we are a great cosmic accident. that said – I certainly believe there is other life in the universe – and if there is a “god” – it is an alien race that mere mortal man needed to “explain” as they interacted with early man – if we were “created’ i believe it was them (aliens) who did the “creating” – which basically make our Earth like a big ant farm the the aliens are watching from a distance … or they have lost interest in and are now ignoring us – but the beginning of whoever/whatever – was pure happenstance – much like the “immaculate reception” in NFL football by Franco Harris (I remember watching that LIVE on TV) – it is a “one-off” thing that will never be repeated in all of time – so life is this same thing – a one-off happy cosmic accident – now what the most advanced being/races choose to do with it or how they might mold it, these are clearly “creator-type situations” but they are no more “Gods” than us who can genetically engineer corn to secrete it’s own pest control compounds or tolerate higher/lower temperatures – Are we “Gods” to the corn? … ummm… no
this is always a great debate – one that can raise passions – everyone who chooses to engage, please remain respectful and civil
re squid, yes u are right re it being more complex, but the point making is all creation has a creator, even the squid.
re who/what made something – i agree. I use that terminology more for pple here to try understand but i believe more ‘what’.
But i did also say ..”Agree there is no man-like being etc presiding, but there is AN ENERGY of “some†intelligence driiving / creating the universe.”
Consider that statement again ~ are we gods to corn cob?
If we define God(s) as a more smart being then mere man, do you think if two corn cobs were speaking, and asked, “I wonder whether there is something more smarter, more powerful then us corn cobs”
As an outsider or human lookng in, you would say OFF COURSE there is something smarter then you corn cobs, would u not?
Is that not the same arguement we humans are having? Is there something smarter, more powerful, than us?
arguing the universe / creation is a bit like arguing about maths ~ some get it and some don’t ..and yet the principles rules still exist in nature, only hidden.
agree re cntry folk. but a lot do suffer identity/esteem issues, especially teens/yng adults …its why the sui rate is a lot higher in cntry towns also.
so u dont believe there is something more powerful and more intelligent then us? *hubris* dawg ..? 🙂 🙂
re country folk/kids – I think many you kids/teens have a hard time reconciling the slow, deliberate and wide spread life of the country/farming vs. the fast-paced close communication and bulk of “stuff” and immediate gratification of the “big city”
It can be hard to find the reason and balance – i do like the wide openness of the county but it does take you away from your support structure.
I sure would like it to be warm here – cold kills my body 🙁
dawg, i think u pretty much touched on the issue ~ when pple are yng they want life experiences/actions/difference people ~ from an evolutionary pov you can grow more i guess ..but once u have played the game and lived in the hustle and bustle, you appreciate the sedate/more peaceful aspects of country or coastal living.
lol @ u and ur names 🙂
it was 40ish yday and high 30s today ~ think that equates to approx 105+ F… after a few days bricks warm up and entire house becomes a radiator of heat .
excessive heat is uncomfortable – but not painful like cold is – of course doctors say the cold/pain correlation is a mentally created phenomenon – I disagree – but then maybe I’m a head case? 😉
we’re in total agreement about “country” … to move/live out there does require an individual strength and self sufficiency that no amount of city dwelling independence can emulate – out there you are physically removed from all social safety systems so if something goes wrong you MUST be prepared – to maintain survival until help can reach you
agree re country points u make …. intellectual & hence physical independence is often something that comes later in life. I just know a lot of young pple feel trapped in the country and problems are often hidden out there because there is less support..for youth and adults. Its not for everyone.
and cold can def worsen physical ailments – not in ur head. eg arthritis related issues.
I still dont believe in god all i can say is- thank dog!!and when the cows or corn cobs come home nothing will change it for me.ive had a near death experiance when they got me back i was really sick and i was looking down over my body and the team as they worked then …well im here.i didnt see no tunnel or god or angels or aliens lol but it made me think twice about wheither i wanted to live.i had a dream last night that my mum died and woke up crying.life is so short it made me want to ring her and try and tell her all the things i havent.why?once youre gone youre gone………..
The observation that life is short is a vg one. It might make you appreciate what you have?
The fact you had a near death experience with a pov looking down on your body, suggest quite clearly, of an ‘after life’ consciousness/awareness does it not that is separate from the physical body?
If This is true for all, then the obv question is where does your consciousness go after it finishes looking down at your body?
Indeed it is very interesting – recognizing that life is short makes us appreciate it more – and certainly the question of the “out of body” experience is fascinating!
But I disagree with adastra that it “clearly suggests presence of ‘after life'” – it raises questions of the suggestion itself of it’s possible existence – hmmm
fair qs One 🙂 current life is interesting and requires us to be practical sure but beyond earth/this life is at least for me intellectually interesting too …
@adastra – I find obsession with afterlife an excuse to not fulfil current life, thats all. It’s interesting, but ultimately pointless. We will never know, and in the meantime, we have so many more pressing concerns on this world…
agree we have *many pressing* concerns in this world … thats actually a very good point and maybe useful sometimes to stop people (like me?) horizon gazing into the yonder … 🙂
‘constructive” for one is a “waste” to another … some are fascinated by a subject, that when it is brought up they ask for details – others could care less and are welcome to skip past those aspects of the discussion
Now – to your point of irony – if you engaged in the debate that you find a waste then, indeed, it would be a waste – but the debate ABOUT the debate is constructive to determine if the debate IS, in fact, a waste so the debate about the debate is pertinent and decidedly NOT a waste and therefore not ironic.
Ok guys, I’m gonna try to get another hour of sleep in there before work. Adastra, Ill send you an email at some point but not too soon, I’m a little busy and still reeling from the ‘girl’ comment. Thanks for the moonlight, see you round like a doughnut.
I did smoke for about 30+ yrs … but quit over a year ago by switching to the E-cig – now I can breathe better, I on’t stink like or taste like an ashtray, my sense of smell has returned and I no longer worry about burning the house down (like my neighbor did – yes, he died)
Please do NOT smoke – nothing good comes of it – it’s a huge waste of money and it increases your share of he tax burden.
having worked in adv, i wonder if i came up with an ad with goodlookingbut slightly rebellious pple in it and showed them sniffing turps, petrol, would it eventually catch on? I bet it would ….
76 comments
There are a lot of folks who would disagree with your theory – i’m not one of them
dawg
I think of it as sleeping and never waking. The only problem is that for the past 38 years I have always woken up the next morning. Wish someone could say what’s on the other side. Bet it would make a lot of people’s choices of living or dying easier.
I think your a long time dead so whats the rush??ive watched over a couple of relatives as they shuffled of this mortal coil and it didnt look like much fun..i think when your gone=nothing just my opinion for what its worth
I hope there is nothing afterwards molly….i hope. but no one knows.
I am the opposite. I hope there is an afterlife and I believe there is not.
You are not the opposite….we think alike…
but what is the afterlife? thinking about the past? living a new life?
What do you mean?
Oh god (heh heh)excuse the pun…wouldnt it suck if you woke up a baby and started again??aaarrrhhhhh!!!!
You mean like reincarnation?
if i woke up like a baby and had to redo it….i hope like hell that it would be totally different from what i’ve lived. if not then i would be right back here at SP
@uttilini yes but i dont believe in it just have an open mind to others beliefs im an atheist but i will go to church when someone dies or is married its about respect but back to death..if anyone knew would we all be here chatting??
http://www.nderf.org/
Go check out the near death experience research foundation. It has given me a lot of insight.
Yeah I mean I am agnostic and I am pretty open to others religious beliefs. Well I mean to a point. If someone starts preaching their religion at me in a zealous way I will try to get away from them in a big hurry.
may i offer some thoughts ?
what drives the universe? Is it not the invisible that creates the visible? Is not ‘what u call empty invisible space’ that created ‘actual matter’?
Science knows the laws of physics are unseen and intangible, yet those instangible things rule over the entire tangible universe.
ie the unseen presides over the seen.
Food for thought….or at least something to ‘try’ and digest.
some somewhat eastern/zen perspectives on life ~
http://redlotusletter.com/the-five-elements-how-to-diagnose-and-remedy-common-life-problems/
Lol you spin me out adastra!!!
I don’t think of the universe in terms of it being driven or ruled over or being presided over. Are there predictable actions and reactions that can be demonstrated over and over again? Yes. But are they driven by something? I don’t believe they are.
lol Molly …I’ll take that as a good thing 🙂
I understand what u r sayin utti, but i differ somewhat. Agree there is no man-like being etc presiding, but there is AN ENERGY of “some” intelligence driiving / creating the universe.
In my world, its the equivalent of a super intelligent geek metaphorically speaking (sorry higher energy, dont zap me! lol).
If you find a expensive digitial watch down the street, you may not know its owner or origins or even how it is put togther, but by evidince of its existence in front of you (much like the universe) we can thru some insight & deduction, infer someone of ‘some intelligence’ was behind creating it?
The universe, the billions of stars, the billions of planets, the billions of life forms …. didnt ‘just happen’ like magic. Magic is usually just something we dont understand ….. so too is the universe.
Too me, god is akin to a ‘higher level of awareness’ beyond the everyday ~ which is what the various so called prophets reached when they saw thru what is essentially the illusion of life, both good and bad are not lasting and largely temporal in our minds.
But of both are an illusion, we must ask which way is best to live?
Ad Astra.
A few simple rules that all follow the same principles, just differently said and differently relevant ~
a) None awareness cannot create awareness (all life has varying levels of awareness – plain rocks do not hence plain rocks cannot create awareness/consciousness)
b) Nothing can create something (a rock, a sun, a planet, a book, a satellite – all came from something) – we can all debate who/when & why till the cows come home.
This world is a test, thats all. But it is us that tests ourselves and passes/fails ourselves most.
All the universe comes ‘from something’ – the source of that something is what we call God/Creator etc … who made the original something?
Its a bit like what came first – the chicken or the egg? Think about it? It’s unsolvable mostly by simple logic , and yet the chicken is still here.
Enjoy & ponder a bit …. insight & debate is always welcome 🙂
My dad used to say that same thing about the watch and I’d say ‘yeah when it says “Quartz” on it you can see it was made.’ lol I think something like a squid is much more complex than some watch. But do I think there is a factory somewhere making squid? No I do not.
“All the universe comes ‘from something’ – the source of that something is what we call God/Creator etc … who made the original something?”
Why does it have to be a “WHO”? How about “What?” because let me tell you not everyone thinks there is a creator/who behind it. You make that assumption. I mean that is your premise without considering any other possibility. And that is your right but we do disagree and we can leave it at that because you are right we could argue until the cows come home. DO I want to? Not necessarily. I don’t like waiting for cows. You believe there is a sentient creator of the universe(s) I am inclined to believe that there is not.
Enjoy, digest, ponder, give it whirl…..
I’m with Utti on this – that in trillions of years with trillions of stars and planets – we are a great cosmic accident. that said – I certainly believe there is other life in the universe – and if there is a “god” – it is an alien race that mere mortal man needed to “explain” as they interacted with early man – if we were “created’ i believe it was them (aliens) who did the “creating” – which basically make our Earth like a big ant farm the the aliens are watching from a distance … or they have lost interest in and are now ignoring us – but the beginning of whoever/whatever – was pure happenstance – much like the “immaculate reception” in NFL football by Franco Harris (I remember watching that LIVE on TV) – it is a “one-off” thing that will never be repeated in all of time – so life is this same thing – a one-off happy cosmic accident – now what the most advanced being/races choose to do with it or how they might mold it, these are clearly “creator-type situations” but they are no more “Gods” than us who can genetically engineer corn to secrete it’s own pest control compounds or tolerate higher/lower temperatures – Are we “Gods” to the corn? … ummm… no
this is always a great debate – one that can raise passions – everyone who chooses to engage, please remain respectful and civil
ponder dawg
re squid, yes u are right re it being more complex, but the point making is all creation has a creator, even the squid.
re who/what made something – i agree. I use that terminology more for pple here to try understand but i believe more ‘what’.
But i did also say ..”Agree there is no man-like being etc presiding, but there is AN ENERGY of “some†intelligence driiving / creating the universe.”
🙂
Well…nothing is something….;-) It’s all good!
ponder Dawg *lol*,
Consider that statement again ~ are we gods to corn cob?
If we define God(s) as a more smart being then mere man, do you think if two corn cobs were speaking, and asked, “I wonder whether there is something more smarter, more powerful then us corn cobs”
As an outsider or human lookng in, you would say OFF COURSE there is something smarter then you corn cobs, would u not?
Is that not the same arguement we humans are having? Is there something smarter, more powerful, than us?
What is your answer …?
arguing the universe / creation is a bit like arguing about maths ~ some get it and some don’t ..and yet the principles rules still exist in nature, only hidden.
@Adastra – either you’ve stayed up WAY too late – Or you haven’t had your coffee yet 😉
No – it is a far cry from tweaking corn – which otherwise grow naturally with zero input from us – and “god said Let there be light …”
what people “argue” math? … only folks arguing math were screwed out of the discount on the coupon they had 😉
FYI – I found “The Reason” – very nice of you – be careful not to patronize the country folk – they are fiercely proud
or i woke up too early ~ hot here last few days …
agree re cntry folk. but a lot do suffer identity/esteem issues, especially teens/yng adults …its why the sui rate is a lot higher in cntry towns also.
so u dont believe there is something more powerful and more intelligent then us? *hubris* dawg ..? 🙂 🙂
I believe I’ve answered your question already in another post 😉
paybacks dawg
re country folk/kids – I think many you kids/teens have a hard time reconciling the slow, deliberate and wide spread life of the country/farming vs. the fast-paced close communication and bulk of “stuff” and immediate gratification of the “big city”
It can be hard to find the reason and balance – i do like the wide openness of the county but it does take you away from your support structure.
I sure would like it to be warm here – cold kills my body 🙁
chilly dawg
dawg, i think u pretty much touched on the issue ~ when pple are yng they want life experiences/actions/difference people ~ from an evolutionary pov you can grow more i guess ..but once u have played the game and lived in the hustle and bustle, you appreciate the sedate/more peaceful aspects of country or coastal living.
lol @ u and ur names 🙂
it was 40ish yday and high 30s today ~ think that equates to approx 105+ F… after a few days bricks warm up and entire house becomes a radiator of heat .
excessive heat is uncomfortable – but not painful like cold is – of course doctors say the cold/pain correlation is a mentally created phenomenon – I disagree – but then maybe I’m a head case? 😉
we’re in total agreement about “country” … to move/live out there does require an individual strength and self sufficiency that no amount of city dwelling independence can emulate – out there you are physically removed from all social safety systems so if something goes wrong you MUST be prepared – to maintain survival until help can reach you
typo dawg
agree re country points u make …. intellectual & hence physical independence is often something that comes later in life. I just know a lot of young pple feel trapped in the country and problems are often hidden out there because there is less support..for youth and adults. Its not for everyone.
and cold can def worsen physical ailments – not in ur head. eg arthritis related issues.
I still dont believe in god all i can say is- thank dog!!and when the cows or corn cobs come home nothing will change it for me.ive had a near death experiance when they got me back i was really sick and i was looking down over my body and the team as they worked then …well im here.i didnt see no tunnel or god or angels or aliens lol but it made me think twice about wheither i wanted to live.i had a dream last night that my mum died and woke up crying.life is so short it made me want to ring her and try and tell her all the things i havent.why?once youre gone youre gone………..
hey molly, hows you 🙂
The observation that life is short is a vg one. It might make you appreciate what you have?
The fact you had a near death experience with a pov looking down on your body, suggest quite clearly, of an ‘after life’ consciousness/awareness does it not that is separate from the physical body?
If This is true for all, then the obv question is where does your consciousness go after it finishes looking down at your body?
your post is interesting Molly ….
Indeed it is very interesting – recognizing that life is short makes us appreciate it more – and certainly the question of the “out of body” experience is fascinating!
But I disagree with adastra that it “clearly suggests presence of ‘after life'” – it raises questions of the suggestion itself of it’s possible existence – hmmm
molly – how is your mom? did you contact her?
dwelling dawg
Why is everyone so obsessed with this question? Why don’t you focus on your current life?
fair qs One 🙂 current life is interesting and requires us to be practical sure but beyond earth/this life is at least for me intellectually interesting too …
@adastra – I find obsession with afterlife an excuse to not fulfil current life, thats all. It’s interesting, but ultimately pointless. We will never know, and in the meantime, we have so many more pressing concerns on this world…
@dawg its only 7.29 i dont think she would appreciate a phone call this early but i will ring today -relax dawg
believe me, molly, when I say – I am VERY relaxed 😉 I generally try not to let clocks dictate my life so I apologize for no being aware of the time
@one – I think you’re right that obsessions are unhealthy – but curiosity is human nature
timeless dawg
agree we have *many pressing* concerns in this world … thats actually a very good point and maybe useful sometimes to stop people (like me?) horizon gazing into the yonder … 🙂
Good point. I *like* your practicality …
@dawg – yes curiosity is human nature. But can that curiosity be directed to more constructive means?
Or is it just too ironic that I am wasting time having a debate about a debate that I think is a waste of time?
‘constructive” for one is a “waste” to another … some are fascinated by a subject, that when it is brought up they ask for details – others could care less and are welcome to skip past those aspects of the discussion
Now – to your point of irony – if you engaged in the debate that you find a waste then, indeed, it would be a waste – but the debate ABOUT the debate is constructive to determine if the debate IS, in fact, a waste so the debate about the debate is pertinent and decidedly NOT a waste and therefore not ironic.
Gordian dawg
@dawg – you have just successfully word-fucked my mind. congrats.
Ok guys, I’m gonna try to get another hour of sleep in there before work. Adastra, Ill send you an email at some point but not too soon, I’m a little busy and still reeling from the ‘girl’ comment. Thanks for the moonlight, see you round like a doughnut.
I take my “fucks” where ever I can find them … Now I believe I’ll smoke LOL
At least you’re mind is now off of the “afterlife” questions 😉
Puff dawg
lol @ you all …
Dawg you smoke!!!your a cool grandpa!!!:-)
Actually – I do not … I “vape” … I use the E-Cigarette
e-dawg
smoking is not cool molly just bec media sell its as so 🙁
esmoke 🙂
I did smoke for about 30+ yrs … but quit over a year ago by switching to the E-cig – now I can breathe better, I on’t stink like or taste like an ashtray, my sense of smell has returned and I no longer worry about burning the house down (like my neighbor did – yes, he died)
Please do NOT smoke – nothing good comes of it – it’s a huge waste of money and it increases your share of he tax burden.
pennywise dawg
No i meant you must be smokin hot at sex lol i dont smoke either and i also dont think its cool!! Lol misunderstood molly
having worked in adv, i wonder if i came up with an ad with goodlookingbut slightly rebellious pple in it and showed them sniffing turps, petrol, would it eventually catch on? I bet it would ….
LOL “misunderstood” = story of my life
as for being “smoking hot@sex” ::blush:: aww shucks ma’am I’m just trying to show kindness 😉
hot dawg
people are easily deceived ….
haha dawg
here we go with the whole ‘misunderstanding” thingie again … Adastra, I don’t “get” it
drawing a blank dawg
You all need to get laid so bad….
I’d be happy to be in your advertisement if it pays well 🙂
will work for … dawg
@one … you volunteering? It was even remotely on my mind coming here … but I wouldn’t turn it down 😉
dawg
@dawg… depends… got a spare e-smoke?
Lol
My husban is woundering what the hell im laughing at!!!!
Pass the e cig heh heh!!
Amused molly
.. as a matter of fact …
sharing dawg
Molly wants in as well!!!
Wow from theres nothing after you die to smoking e cigs together!!lol
you’re in if you want in – it’s that easy 🙂
inclusive dawg
@Molly – it’s weird how many threads descend into an online virtual orgy. Please tell ye husband to give us some privacy
Haha he just said put the phone down and talk to me!!butting in husband gotta go molly
Ps dawg mums fine:-)
Ahh good to hear about mum … it’s only fair to put in some face time with hubby 😉
Remember to smile 😀
dawg
Smiling and laughing:-)