“…anyone who attempts to do both, to adjust to his group and at the same time pursue his individual goal, becomes neurotic.â€
― C.G. Jung
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And thus, i have discovered the most refined and concise words to express the source of my frustration.
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Upon first reading it, i read: “to adjust his group,” instead of “adjust TO his group.” Both are valid, in different ways.
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But what if my individual goal is to achieve the requirement of adjusting my group (or perhaps the entire world), in order to gain access to a particular configuration of circumstances that would be required to enable my actual individual goals?
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What if adjusting my group is the prerequisite? What if my individual goals are blocked by what currently exists beyond myself? What if i have to manipulate the external circumstances, in order to achieve my inner purpose?
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Perhaps being reminded of Slipknot’s song “Before I Forget,” and the line that says “i am a world, before i am a man…” was the spark for this thought.
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What if i am literally a world, before i am a man? What if the requirements of fulfillment, require first adjusting my group (and also myself to my adjusted group), setting up the environment for a series of tasks to be completed, and then later setting out to complete them?
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This is a dilemma. I can’t do both. There is not enough time and energy. There are not enough readily available resources.
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How do i resolve this conflict? And no, i can’t choose. I can’t choose to only pursue individual goals, because they are blocked by the group. I cannot choose to integrate into the group, because doing so requires conforming to unacceptable parameters, in ways that cause and perpetuate suffering, without offering suitable or sufficient rewards. In order to voluntarily integrate into the group that i find very wrong, there must be a reasonably justifiable expectation of gains that would be worth that degree of increased and prolonged suffering. There must be reasonable expectations of my “price” being met. I must believe that what i would gain, would be worth compromising my principles and integrity, and voluntarily participating in a group that has until now only produced and perpetuated my misery. In order to integrate in such a painful way (adjust to my group), i must reasonably expect a justifiable gain. But i do not. I cannot. To do so, would be unreasonable.
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So, there are only two options:
A) Both integration and personal fulfillment
B) Neither (which is likely to result in misery and ultimately death)
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So it HAS TO BE (A). There is no other option.
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The group resists change, and i lack the resources to impose it, and lack the time to wage and win a war of attrition.
This is the crux of my dilemma.
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There is no readily available or identifiable solution. There is no “help.” Very few people, if any at all, have even approached understanding this dilemma, though i would surmise that many do indeed perceive encountering it. It’s just that most choose to conform, to integrate into a society that is “better than nothing.” But i can’t do that. Because there are many things i would change, which changes would be motivated by the fact that i’m not so sure that integration with a system i can’t accept, would be “better than nothing.” I suppose it is “good enough” for lots of people… but i’m not lots of people.
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So where is the “help,” where are the “solutions,” for the fringe outliers similar to myself? We are an underrepresented minority, with very few, if any advocates.
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I would not be content with spending my entire life amidst the struggles of trying to change a world that wants to remain as it is. I would not be content with choosing to integrate, purely for the “selfish” purpose of exploiting any available advantage, for purely personal gains, while completely ignoring, or even adding to the perpetuation of the very system i find so unacceptable and loathsome.
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It’s like i’m always forced to choose between either defense or offense… but in ways where choosing one, either negates or disables the other. To attack, i must expose myself as vulnerable. To defend, i must refrain from attempting to apply force to areas which need to be altered.
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Then it hit me:
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Kung Fu (and Tai Chi, and probably other “styles,” to some extent) is all about seamlessly integrating the two, so that one is not forced to choose either/or, but can defend while advancing, side-stepping, or retreating… or advance/sidestep/retreat while defending, or defend while attacking, or attack while defending. One of the prime directives is to maintain fluidly defensible positioning from every position, and to never over-extend. My only ‘legit’ instructor once called it “the art of opening and closing.” This applies to both the self and the opponent(s). Retreat should never be the correct option, unless i find myself in an indefensible stance or position, facing an insurmountable or a particularly disadvantaged situation; which is almost always classified as “a mistake,” and should not occur in correct employment of the aforementioned tactics. There should not be an exploitable opening created by any attack. There should not be an inability to exploit an opening, due to defense. Both should occur simultaneously, fluidly, as needed, in a way that provides the best possible action for each perpetually changing circumstance. In theory, theory should work in practice; but in practice, theory is not always practical.
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Still, the idea of integrating both self-defense and application of force to a target, is the core of the ideal. We should be able to do both at once, rather than being forced to choose, by our environment, and by our opponents, and by our own lack of self-control, due to lack of development, or damage from prior impacts.
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So… how do i integrate both my pursuit of personal goals, as well as my requirement to both adjust my group, and also adjust TO my group?
How can i Live? What can i Do? How can i do it?
There must be a viable way to integrate both pursuits… because choosing only defense, or only offense, will only ensure my own doom.
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I need an immediately profitable action, which also allows, and does not disable, pursuit and ultimate achievement of the long-term goals. I need them to occur simultaneously, in order to achieve either of them.
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I need both immediate survival, as well as long-term fulfillment, to become and remain simultaneously available, without negating or contradicting or disabling the other. I need both of those doors/paths open, and all vulnerabilities closed.
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I am willing to put all of myself into such a solution, if i can find a way to make such a solution exist.
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The problem is that i do not know such a solution Can exist, and until i figure out what and how to do it, i cannot begin to live.
And until i can begin to live, each second that passes in anticipation of what i wish, but may never be… is profoundly agonizing.
Jung would call it “neurosis.” I would agree.
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In theory, this solution could exist, and i have “seen it” working in a visualized practice… but in actual practice, the theories can quickly and exponentially become unmanageably large, hopelessly overwhelming.
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I need a way to simplify everything, and completely eliminate as many chaos factors as possible, without closing the wrong doors.
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This is the kind of “help” that i need. Anything that is not This, is not just a waste of my time, but is detrimental to my well-being, and threatens my very existence.
If you cannot understand my problem, you cannot help me.
One must seek admittance into, and thorough understanding of, the source… or i will completely disregard their so-called “help,” as a laughably arbitrary and half-assed pseudo-attempt, borne from their desire to be seen as “helpful,” rather than perceive them as actually wanting to help me.
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If you really want to help: Go To The Source. But be ready: it’s scary in there.
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If you don’t really want to help: stay out of my way, and stop demanding compliance, conformity, and my acceptance of the unacceptable. I will not. I cannot.
p.s. UGH, how terribly inefficient and ugly. I wanted to make the text slightly less “bright white” looking, to reduce the contrast with the page… it’s a bit darker than i’d prefer, now, but apparently, WP uses SPAN TAGS ON ALL THE PARAGRAPHS FFS (html paragraphs, not grammar paragraphs). All it really needs is an open tag and a close tag, like “begin attribute here, end attribute there.” It doesn’t need a tag for every line. How inefficient!
13 comments
I’ve always been keen on the option you excluded: pursuing only individual goals without consideration for a group or groups. I rather interact with different people whom I view as being individuals, rather than assigning them to groups (as much as I’m able – there must be compromises here and there, if only for vernacular purposes). For example: individual is a group designation, and placing everyone I meet into the grouping of “individual,” each separate and of itself, is still a group designation, strictly speaking. My solution has always been to say, “Stupid clumsy language makes things so overly complicated as to boggle the mind.” The reality is, your personal goals are intertwined with the idea of an accepting group which is in conformity with your preconceived expectations of the group. Most people have the potential to fall into that trap, but it’s an entirely conceptual hangup rooted in language. Things are what they are. You cannot change other people, because they struggle with the same kind of linguistic barriers as do you, and have the same perceptual abilities as do you, although many probably don’t use those faculties very often.
So let’s simplify, shall we? Concision is the razor of deduction.
What are these personal goals you speak of, and which group is it that is blocking you from accomplishing them? How are they blocking you from accomplishing them? I think they call this situation in perspective, “anomie,” or an alienation from the values and goals of a larger group of piers. People who have taken it upon themselves to follow the age-old Socratic advice to examine their lives tend to end up here as a result of the necessary process involved. As far as I’m concerned, everyone has some degree of anomic awareness. Some more than others. I base that on the observation that humans are humans, and the same mental processes that lead there exist within everyone. This leads to asking whether group-identity makes any sense at all, granted everyone feels anxiety about it, and nobody really knows what a given group actually is in the first place. It’s a linguistic construct, so by definition, a nebulous thing.
I feel you. If one stays on the fringes of society they do not have to be put through unnecessary psychological torment, yet for the average person, society contains our only means for survival…
We want to live, but we do not want to merely /subsist/ in a monotony of convention.
There must be some way to exceed these barriers, a way to do so without being obligated to lower our self-respect, without violating our principles, without succumbing to a prosaic and colourless existence.
Perhaps if one first put forth an effort so that he might secure a particular objective, and then manipulated this objective, he might reach his desired end.
We only have two choices in life; to be in continuous motion, or to fall into inertia. Motion usually secures life – inertia cannot lead to much more than death.
Once inert, it can be extremely difficult to gain motility. Often a catalyst is necessary to point one in an advantageous direction.
Perhaps, if one who has been immobile finds themselves in an altered state leading towards progress, it will be much easier to remain on this path, and the mission to achieve a deeper fulfillment will prove to be satisfactory enough to overcome many potential obstacles.
Instead of the verbose and taxing reply i was writing, just check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration
@clevername – Alright, well I’m ready to commence this.. deform comaraderie of deconformity whenever you are, and for somehow, to go on and die or to try, the hopeful pursuit and impact against the conformity. Through our voices and through our hearts, and most important of all.. through ‘The People’. Together, we are the superior. Together, we have the capacity to achieve the so-called ‘impossible’. We live in a world where we stand divided as individuals, and that is the sole reason to our crumbling humanity. ‘Change’ is not impossible for it is but only a principle of logic. The key is unity. The key ‘oneness’. But the missing link in our lives — the Leaders.
I have such ambition in me and devoted in the most optimum form, it seems, and at a such primal level as in it simply is a nature; I breathe in order to better mankind. And it’s so strange because I wonder why and do not understand why there isn’t anyone at all out there like that to be recognized. Where are the real stars? Which reminds me…. those famous ‘stars’ of our pop-culture, I envision them as they are going to play vital roles for if ‘the impact’. They need to be reached, they need to be guided and enlightened, and they need to be ‘unveiled’ – n then we’ll have millions of bucks on our side. There is nothing more nor nothing less about me, for me I am only within the normal equilibrium of what a ‘man’ is.
Right now all that I’m doing is rambling with a half oxygenated brain that is in absolute distress… In a sense I am a half-brained zombie. In this state it is impossible for me to progess and prosper as a human-being. I have nothing further to say. All I know is that I need to heal.
how to reconcile the requirements to subsist, with the attainment and maintenance of an altered, progressive state…
how to integrate subsistence with advancement… so that the sum is greater than its parts… so that they feed and empower each other, as an intertwined, unified, “holistic” approach… an “upward spiral.”
how to subsist, without relinquishing the opportunity to advance…
how to advance, while subsisting…
how to manifest and reliably maintain the energy, focus and resilience, required to do both…
how to configure the local environment, in order to achieve this…
how to adjust the self, to achieve adjustment of the environment…
Sorry if my writing seems unappealing, I am very undeveloped within the manner.
@morlock:
i didn’t see that until after i hit submit. I think you’re definitely onto something with the idea of ‘converting’ celebrities, who would likely be more easily followed into… new ways of doing things… i mean, they’re practically the best candidates for such things: they get paid large sums of money in order to perform a role that is meant to stoke the emotional fires of the audience. They’re paid to “be believable.” People often care what they think/say about issues, just because they’re rich and famous, even when they often might not have the most realistic or ‘valid’ perspective on some things. But it’s going to take a lot more than a few famous faces to set the stage and frame the scene. The most important thing would be a shift in the way young people are taught to think… and to ensure they /are/ taught to think, rather than being taught to just believe.
Yea. It all sounds like a fun project though. Trying to find ways to reach out and somehow empower them…
But anyways… So what’s up? Can you help me out or what? Haha..
But maybe I’m just fooling myself …. I mean, the ambition in me is real but ….. I’ve been suppressed in such a way for so long….. I don’t think I’ll ever get back to shape and have the energy to fullfill these hopes… Right now I’m just hoping for the simple things..
@morlock:
I wouldn’t exactly call it “fun,” though i suppose there is a sense of “purpose” in the challenge…
But no, i probably can’t help you out. I’m already overwhelmed enough by my own problems.
I don’t think it’s necessarily about “fooling yourself,” but the natural resistance toward accepting squandered and reduced, unfulfilled potential, and accepting a lesser actualized self, and whatever future that might produce.
I think that keeping things simple, and appreciating the simpler and more mundane aspects of life, is probably a good approach.
The biggest failing in modern psychoanalytic theories is that they start with the untested and unproved premise that group identity is important – it’s axiomatic in everyone from Freud to Jung to the modern day hacks that are building off what the founders of the science started. Freud was really bad about group identity – he’s also the founder of modern day advertising due to the way he looked at the milling masses of idiots that he saw when he looked out his window.
The problem with this is that it plants a seed into future generations, based on the idea that things which are larger than the self are somehow real – by that, I refer to conceptual, logical organizational structures, like nation-states, demographics, and statistical analyses. If we related to each other according to statistical models, the world would be enormously annoying, and posses a huge deal of homogeneity. Individuals don’t relate to other individuals according to demographic or statistical models because individuals are alive, whereas charts and paperwork are not. The folly of the approach is evident in how socially disintegrated western cultures become over time. This website is a perfect example of why it fails so abysmally.
It’s often quite surprising to me how one person can view evidence as indicative of failure, where another views it as indicative of success.
I find the theories of giftedness, over-excitability, and positive disintegration, as very accurately representative of both my experiences and my perceptions of them. The reason i frequently reference these concepts, is because it goes a long way toward explaining much of how i relate to my world, the communication of which, i find, is helpful in assisting another being in better understanding things about myself that i would otherwise struggle to explain (and still do, hence the reference).
According to what i’ve read, Dabrowski’s theories are not necessarily widespread, and much of his work is not even yet translated to English. So, stuff he was working on 30+ years ago, still hasn’t made it into mainstream psycho-social acceptance, or even consideration. He died the year i was born, and i didn’t find his theories until… last year? This year? Too bad i didn’t learn Polish.
Obviously, we can’t live everything “by the book” or based only on statistics… but there is certainly some usefulness in having those statistics available, although i realize the validity of any gathered statistics can often be easily contested. It’s unlikely that we can truly and rigorously quantify ‘everything,’ but we can certainly attempt to interpret what can be quantified, as well as attempt to properly understand what incomplete information can represent. Sometimes we can get a pretty clear and reasonably accurate idea of things, from incomplete information, whereas other times, a slight detail missed can make a drastic difference in the way the whole of the information is interpreted.
Group identity *is* important, because in this world, it is nearly impossible to survive completely isolated from others. It might even be nearly impossible to remain isolated, even if one were able to survive. I don’t think it’s the “identity” of the group that is so important, but rather, the advantages and/or disadvantages of the approval or disapproval dynamics between the group and the individual.
You’re right, things that topical authorities say, do indeed “plant seeds” in “the masses,” through whatever interpretation is made of the authority’s ideas. That’s not to say everyone properly understands the ideas, nor that everyone is necessarily wrong in their interpretation. To suggest such is to get too close to claiming that all knowledge and interpretation is inherently invalid.
Obviously, there is an objective reality (and we must first accept this premise, in order to continue discourse), and we are all experiencing it subjectively, with varying degrees of sensory accuracy and understanding. Things that are larger than the self, do indeed exist. If you don’t accept that things outside yourself and larger, do indeed exist, then we have no common ground to act as a basis for communication.
You seem to hold a rather sinister view of “planting seeds,” as if awareness of existence of groups is somehow “bad.” To believe the ideal is reality, when it is not, is what is bad, not the acknowledgement of the ideal itself. I am aware we do not live in an ideal world, and that ideals are almost always not realities. Perhaps many people fall into the “trap” of believing an ideal is also the reality, but that’s on them. It is the responsibility of their own mind, to place significant value upon discerning what is actually real, versus what is not.
Some of us DO relate to each other as indicated by statistical models. Otherwise, those statistical models would show something else. It’s just that most statistical models are incomplete, and only accurately represent their sample. Quite often, those samples can indeed be somewhat reasonably accurate, in representing a larger base, but not always, and it’s almost never “100% of people-type-A, are X.”
And, what do you mean “would be” enormously annoying? It already is enormously annoying, often profoundly discouraging and infuriating. Many of the models confirm what can be repeatedly and typically observed with the naked eye. When it’s “mostly right,” that’s hardly justification for the contention that “incomplete is automatically wrong.”
The charts and the paperwork are recorded from the actions and interactions of people who are alive. They represent at least a part of reality.
In this realm, i think the “folly” is more in claiming that the entire approach is folly, based on some inconsistencies and inaccuracies which are often necessarily inherent in attempting to quantify something with so much variation. Obviously (to me), you can’t just assume everything will match the few (or copious) samples. There are almost always exceptions to whatever is established as a rule or standard. But that’s not to say the approach is correct or perfect. Obviously there is a lot more to learn and understand, which hasn’t yet been sufficiently explored.
I think this enters the territory of the tendency for lots of people trying to establish themselves and their “authority” on any topic, by identifying an inconsistency, making a counter-assertion, and just running with it, instead of really digging into what it means, how it relates and interconnects with other things, and attempting to maintain their own rigor, in determining whether their assertions can actually be valid. There are so many instances of people arbitrarily creating false dichotomy paradigms, just to advance their own agenda, where it is quite clear to some, that neither “side” takes into account all aspects, and that neither are correct, neither are entirely incorrect, while both evangelize at each other about how the other is wrong.
We should be thinking more along the lines of “how does what i’ve discovered, overlap with what else exists?” Instead of trying to set up arbitrary and fallacious systems of incorrectly categorizing everything, without considering how it all interrelates. But then again, “people are stupid,” and people have to both subsist and advance, which can be hugely taxing, and so i guess nobody has time to really think about everything. And so they succumb to the temptation to just label everything however, without properly understanding it, and claiming to be correct, due to economy of self.
We can’t know everything, we can’t figure everything out, and so we should just figure out what we can, and go from there.
It’s just that “going from there” often requires assistance from the group, which is often based on the dynamic of approval and integration. Would you want to help someone who is actively opposing your “group?” Would you want to help a “group” that is actively opposing/obstructing you? That’s why it’s important. If people don’t share the common ground of an acceptable basis for perceiving, interpreting, and understanding reality, and the values therein, then cooperation can be practically impossible. And you should know how vital cooperation can be, not just to survival, but to prosperity and fulfillment. Group identity can make or break us, whether or not we “care” or “agree” with what the group thinks. And if you can’t integrate with the group, then you have a serious problem, which can only be solved by doing everything yourself, or finding a more compatible group.
I see a lot of similarity in yours and mine pursuit, even though our ways and goals are different. that’s how i also want to do it: by seamlessly integrating into the whole system and driving the overall output towards a goal. although i have this option available, but i don’t want to run away from my problems to pursue what i seek; i want to integrate the problems also as a part of the system and solve them along the way.
my situation is exactly like yours: “to adjust to his group and at the same time pursue his individual goal”, although your problem is much more complicated than mine since your individual goal includes changing the group and mine doesn’t. but i cannot “conform” to them either since that almost completely stops my individual goal. i’m rather trying to find a way where i ‘smoothly integrate’ with them.
and i also want to it like “tai-chi” i.e. smoothly, fluidly switching my stance between while i interact with them and while i’m alone (analogous to your attack and defence stance). discontinuities lead to more little problems, whereas fluidity does it smoothly.
i cannot really “help” you right now. i just felt like writing it as i could understand and relate with much of it. i wish i had seen this post earlier… i somehow missed it.
one thing that comes in my mind when i think about changing society is that one has to show them results if one wants to change them. i cannot be antagonistic to everything i find wrong about society (which they find right) and expect them to listen to my reasoning alone. if i want to get into their good opinion then i need to do something which they praise or find worthy (good marks, in my case… money,in maybe yours). once this happens then i can manipulate and change them from inside on many other things that i find wrong but they don’t even know about.
and above all they want bread.
you must be knowing all this… i just didn’t want to go away without any “help” from my side… even if it isn’t:P