The idea of a ‘destiny’ is a construct whose roots are directly entwined with theism. The idea of a destiny implies that there is a higher power regulating the inevitable therefore we will flawlessly fall into circumstances which are already predetermined. This idea is fallacious is many regards, as it lacks insensibility. Time is a one-way vector, you can create an idea of where you’re going, but there is no way that a person can absolutely predict what is going to happen, nothing is guaranteed. The idea of our lives being guaranteed is indeed comforting, as it takes some responsibility off of ourselves and into the hands of ‘fate’ or whatever the notion is. That idea is dangerous, because in reality we all 100% responsible for our own actions, the consequences of what you do are completely at your fault, there is nothing to blame, not fate, not destiny, not ‘God’. If you want to have substantial hope you need to give yourself a substantial reason to hope. Take logic into account when assessing your hope, otherwise you will be sorely disappointed. Keep in mind that logic can be distorted though, as human-logic is mostly subjective. If this gives you hope though, by all means, whatever floats your boat.
It’s funny that video is titled “recurrence” (i haven’t watched it), but i think i can already guess it has nothing to offer me… but i think what’s funny about that title, is that it comes close to something far more relevant and accurate, which ties into what SB just said:
The concept of Recursion. Not “recurrence,” but *recursion.* There is a drastic difference between those two concepts, and “recursion” ultimately conveys, in a single word, many things which are prohibitively difficult to articulate.
The way out of depression is recursion. The way to manifest good things in your life, is recursion. The way to fall into endless, insurmountable despair, is also recursion. The way people misunderstand reality, then teach that misunderstanding to everyone they encounter, which then memetically spreads that misunderstanding throughout the populous, causing people to invent fallacious ideals, which only causes problems, and prevents the original problems from being solved, or even seen… is recursion.
It’s about how everything that comes after the starting point (ie: anything people call “destiny”), is impacted by that starting point. And if you start from misunderstanding or erroneous understanding of the world, from false ideals, from incorrect knowledge… your “destiny” will be to either become more and more wrong, spreading the wrong everywhere you go… or you will notice the wrongness, and make a choice to go against it, which will give you a life of strife and anguish, as you are both affronted by, and have imposed upon you, the fallacious but standardized wrongness of the world’s past mistakes… its “starting point,” from which the uncorrected recursion originates.
That’s why so much is wrong in the world: people misunderstood, then taught others not to fix it.
We have the power to change that, but it will take a very long time, and a lot of effort, to go against the grain of the indoctrinated and standardized, even fanatically embraced misunderstandings, which serve as the origins of our experiences we encounter today.
I never liked the idea of destiny, it seems like an exscuse for ones actions… Hmmm i think i like destiny actually lol. But it falls into the same category as god, impossible to prove, u can say anything u do u were destined to and no way to disprove it
The concept of Destiny goes against most (western) theology. Most theology here is based on God, or Trinity,& is very clear on a persons right to free choice(@ least, supposedly since a large flood and a huge ark was built). If things were pre determined that choice would be taken from them by the very source that gave it to them. But to be honest i’m fairly apathetic on the issue. Que sera sera.
The only time I give a tiny amount of credence to “destiny” …is when you do something beyond spectacular… Like MJ… his talent is and always will be inexplicable…science will never be able to tell you why he was able to do what he did…
Destiny has nothing to do with god… It simply means something happened that was very likely to happen…
Circumstance is circumstance… Destiny is destiny… They aren’t the same…
Destiny does not have to be linked to god although people can use it that way however the main definition is the one I use…which is something is very likely to happen…
“The concept of Destiny goes against most (western) theology…”
I disagree.
People go around claiming “god has a plan…”
But he can’t have a plan if we’re allowed to alter it.
Why would he make a plan we can ruin by choosing something he knows we’re going to choose? And if he doesn’t know we’re going to choose something different than his plan, then he’s not all-knowing. And if he has a plan, and all our choices are what he intended, then we don’t have free will… which amounts to “destiny.”
I will add, however, that the concept of destiny can be separate from theology. You can see it in a more metaphysical and secular way, as if the universe is simply carrying out a process that is naturally “predetermined,” according to how everything interacts with everything else… but that destiny isn’t “created” or “determined” by any conscious being; it simply is the naturally inevitable conclusions of things being the ways they are.
But i still disagree. We do have choice and free will… but we have a tendency to be rather predictable, even predictably unpredictable (ie: “i know that person’s going to freak out, but i don’t know what they’re going to do, when that happens…”).
i’d always thought of it as something preset……that you couldn’t get out of or change if u wanted to. Even if you changed your path in life. It’s something that’s going to happen no matter what. Hence me being apathetic, and not really a beleiver.
not really. Your point was that “destiny goes against western theology,” but in fact, that’s only part of the story. Western theology is full of contradictions; it goes against itself. So, just because something unreliable and nonsensical goes against some concept, that’s not a good gauge by which to measure the credibility or value of said concept.
Nothing ever happens “no matter what.” Everything is an effect produced by causes. If you change the causes, you change the effects. If “destiny” was real, it would be impossible to change any of the causes required for generating that destiny. In some cases, you can switch it around and see it backwards (which many people do), but all events are effects caused by their causes… not “destiny.”
I find it interesting when people say they want to believe (or actually do believe) that their “destiny” is already written, predetermined, which makes them not responsible for their own decisions.
Convenient, right? I mean… who wouldn’t want to be free of responsibility of their own decisions? Do you think we could maybe make a legal defense out of “destiny?”
“Sorry your honor, there was no way for me to avoid choosing to kill that guy; Destiny.”
iThe very fact that destiny can be changed goes against western theology, for those who choose to believe. Western theology is based on a fundamental, unshakable, unchanging belief system: therefore it cannot be changed along with someones actions as can, as some claim, destiny.
i watched Matrix today, so i’m already overwhelmed by this fate/choice thing. i think the important thing is not choice but “will” to make a choice. i think this will is free, even if what it does is not free. if people wanna make a choice, they are free; if they don’t wanna make a choice, they aren’t free. and i think everybody wanna make, and make, a choice, even if there is deep rooted desire in them to be fated, carried, not bear the weight of freedom. ironic, i guess. so they make choice to be fated. it satisfies them, it puts their mind at peace finally. and we see the will to power working here too: the reverence for anything higher, the submittence to authority. they can’t believe anything lower, it has to be a higher thing… something they don’t have knowledge of, so that they can finally give up this curse of knowledge and put that magical thing called faith/belief, which is the second name of ignorance, into work. i keep thinking about Cypher, who decided to go back into Matrix and that too along with forgetting all truth about reality he got to know. it was an irrational decision, because “he”, who suffered from knowledge of truth, won’t be able to experience the bliss of ignorance; it will be somebody else, someone who don’t know the truth and thus don’t know the bliss of not-knowing either. it was almost like suicide, yet he decided to do it.. such must be the suffering of knowledge. Then there is Merovingian. he is the opposite of cypher – he lives in the matrix and wants more and more knowledge. “knowledge is power”, he said. i am comparing him with philosophers and scholars. knowing a path is one thing, walking a path is another… Neo walks on it, Merovingian only wanna know.
hmm.. i am like the old Councillor, i have no point.
19 comments
The idea of a ‘destiny’ is a construct whose roots are directly entwined with theism. The idea of a destiny implies that there is a higher power regulating the inevitable therefore we will flawlessly fall into circumstances which are already predetermined. This idea is fallacious is many regards, as it lacks insensibility. Time is a one-way vector, you can create an idea of where you’re going, but there is no way that a person can absolutely predict what is going to happen, nothing is guaranteed. The idea of our lives being guaranteed is indeed comforting, as it takes some responsibility off of ourselves and into the hands of ‘fate’ or whatever the notion is. That idea is dangerous, because in reality we all 100% responsible for our own actions, the consequences of what you do are completely at your fault, there is nothing to blame, not fate, not destiny, not ‘God’. If you want to have substantial hope you need to give yourself a substantial reason to hope. Take logic into account when assessing your hope, otherwise you will be sorely disappointed. Keep in mind that logic can be distorted though, as human-logic is mostly subjective. If this gives you hope though, by all means, whatever floats your boat.
Please post the video… Maybe it will help others, too.
🙂
It’s funny that video is titled “recurrence” (i haven’t watched it), but i think i can already guess it has nothing to offer me… but i think what’s funny about that title, is that it comes close to something far more relevant and accurate, which ties into what SB just said:
The concept of Recursion. Not “recurrence,” but *recursion.* There is a drastic difference between those two concepts, and “recursion” ultimately conveys, in a single word, many things which are prohibitively difficult to articulate.
The way out of depression is recursion. The way to manifest good things in your life, is recursion. The way to fall into endless, insurmountable despair, is also recursion. The way people misunderstand reality, then teach that misunderstanding to everyone they encounter, which then memetically spreads that misunderstanding throughout the populous, causing people to invent fallacious ideals, which only causes problems, and prevents the original problems from being solved, or even seen… is recursion.
It’s about how everything that comes after the starting point (ie: anything people call “destiny”), is impacted by that starting point. And if you start from misunderstanding or erroneous understanding of the world, from false ideals, from incorrect knowledge… your “destiny” will be to either become more and more wrong, spreading the wrong everywhere you go… or you will notice the wrongness, and make a choice to go against it, which will give you a life of strife and anguish, as you are both affronted by, and have imposed upon you, the fallacious but standardized wrongness of the world’s past mistakes… its “starting point,” from which the uncorrected recursion originates.
That’s why so much is wrong in the world: people misunderstood, then taught others not to fix it.
We have the power to change that, but it will take a very long time, and a lot of effort, to go against the grain of the indoctrinated and standardized, even fanatically embraced misunderstandings, which serve as the origins of our experiences we encounter today.
@HIHW: do you not see the hyperlink?
I never liked the idea of destiny, it seems like an exscuse for ones actions… Hmmm i think i like destiny actually lol. But it falls into the same category as god, impossible to prove, u can say anything u do u were destined to and no way to disprove it
The concept of Destiny goes against most (western) theology. Most theology here is based on God, or Trinity,& is very clear on a persons right to free choice(@ least, supposedly since a large flood and a huge ark was built). If things were pre determined that choice would be taken from them by the very source that gave it to them. But to be honest i’m fairly apathetic on the issue. Que sera sera.
The only time I give a tiny amount of credence to “destiny” …is when you do something beyond spectacular… Like MJ… his talent is and always will be inexplicable…science will never be able to tell you why he was able to do what he did…
Destiny has nothing to do with god… It simply means something happened that was very likely to happen…
@Pain
Isn’t that circumstance, as opposed to Destiny? I’d like to believe in Destiny but have seen no evidence to prove(or i suppose disprove) it…..
Circumstance is circumstance… Destiny is destiny… They aren’t the same…
Destiny does not have to be linked to god although people can use it that way however the main definition is the one I use…which is something is very likely to happen…
But is Destiny by defintion something that is GOING to happen? A guarantee?
No not at all…
“The concept of Destiny goes against most (western) theology…”
I disagree.
People go around claiming “god has a plan…”
But he can’t have a plan if we’re allowed to alter it.
Why would he make a plan we can ruin by choosing something he knows we’re going to choose? And if he doesn’t know we’re going to choose something different than his plan, then he’s not all-knowing. And if he has a plan, and all our choices are what he intended, then we don’t have free will… which amounts to “destiny.”
I will add, however, that the concept of destiny can be separate from theology. You can see it in a more metaphysical and secular way, as if the universe is simply carrying out a process that is naturally “predetermined,” according to how everything interacts with everything else… but that destiny isn’t “created” or “determined” by any conscious being; it simply is the naturally inevitable conclusions of things being the ways they are.
But i still disagree. We do have choice and free will… but we have a tendency to be rather predictable, even predictably unpredictable (ie: “i know that person’s going to freak out, but i don’t know what they’re going to do, when that happens…”).
i’d always thought of it as something preset……that you couldn’t get out of or change if u wanted to. Even if you changed your path in life. It’s something that’s going to happen no matter what. Hence me being apathetic, and not really a beleiver.
@ Clever…..you just proved my point better than i could have
not really. Your point was that “destiny goes against western theology,” but in fact, that’s only part of the story. Western theology is full of contradictions; it goes against itself. So, just because something unreliable and nonsensical goes against some concept, that’s not a good gauge by which to measure the credibility or value of said concept.
Nothing ever happens “no matter what.” Everything is an effect produced by causes. If you change the causes, you change the effects. If “destiny” was real, it would be impossible to change any of the causes required for generating that destiny. In some cases, you can switch it around and see it backwards (which many people do), but all events are effects caused by their causes… not “destiny.”
I find it interesting when people say they want to believe (or actually do believe) that their “destiny” is already written, predetermined, which makes them not responsible for their own decisions.
Convenient, right? I mean… who wouldn’t want to be free of responsibility of their own decisions? Do you think we could maybe make a legal defense out of “destiny?”
“Sorry your honor, there was no way for me to avoid choosing to kill that guy; Destiny.”
“I see. Case dismissed!”
iThe very fact that destiny can be changed goes against western theology, for those who choose to believe. Western theology is based on a fundamental, unshakable, unchanging belief system: therefore it cannot be changed along with someones actions as can, as some claim, destiny.
Well…..doesn’t go against…..but is very separate from. I’ve heard some preachers be furious over the concept of destiny…….it was funny
i watched Matrix today, so i’m already overwhelmed by this fate/choice thing. i think the important thing is not choice but “will” to make a choice. i think this will is free, even if what it does is not free. if people wanna make a choice, they are free; if they don’t wanna make a choice, they aren’t free. and i think everybody wanna make, and make, a choice, even if there is deep rooted desire in them to be fated, carried, not bear the weight of freedom. ironic, i guess. so they make choice to be fated. it satisfies them, it puts their mind at peace finally. and we see the will to power working here too: the reverence for anything higher, the submittence to authority. they can’t believe anything lower, it has to be a higher thing… something they don’t have knowledge of, so that they can finally give up this curse of knowledge and put that magical thing called faith/belief, which is the second name of ignorance, into work. i keep thinking about Cypher, who decided to go back into Matrix and that too along with forgetting all truth about reality he got to know. it was an irrational decision, because “he”, who suffered from knowledge of truth, won’t be able to experience the bliss of ignorance; it will be somebody else, someone who don’t know the truth and thus don’t know the bliss of not-knowing either. it was almost like suicide, yet he decided to do it.. such must be the suffering of knowledge. Then there is Merovingian. he is the opposite of cypher – he lives in the matrix and wants more and more knowledge. “knowledge is power”, he said. i am comparing him with philosophers and scholars. knowing a path is one thing, walking a path is another… Neo walks on it, Merovingian only wanna know.
hmm.. i am like the old Councillor, i have no point.