Originally I wanted to post some thoughts on alt.suicide.holiday but I cannot seem to get the narkive account to do anything. Everytime I try to post, I gets 403 error saying there was spam with my post. Oh well, some of the regulars there are a real kick in the pants like The Colonal Eric Paul Burke from Northville, Mi.
What drives me crazy is the perfect conditions that need to be present to take the plunge. If I’m too depressed, there is absolutely no way I can attempt ending it all. If I’m in good spirits, I want to do other things. Its very rare to find that middle ground that needs to be present for a successful demise.
I’ve struggled with the bipolar diagnosis since I was 17. I’ve fought the label due to the stigma that is associated with it and how the medications do not change anything. They work for some, just not me. The majority of the time I’m in a low state and constantly looking for that “manic” high. Once I’m on track with mania, I’ll fuel it until it can’t be used anymore. I’ve gotten into some trouble with it but this last episode was overvthevtop. Spent lots of money, lost my job, wifey left and I’ve got some legal trouble for not playing nice with cops on several occasions.
The cycle……low depression, high mania……low depression that never stops is taking the zest out of life. I’ve been successful, made plenty of friends and have had a pretty decent life,but it can all go slipping away in one manic episode. My credit score has tanked, my house is getting foreclosed and I can’t land a job with these legal problems pending. Yeah, I could climb out of this mess…..but damn. It’s so difficult to get to a status in life then start all over, it’s disheartening. And I doubt this will be the last time. When you establish a job or plan a wedding, you always have in the back of your mind, “glad I don’t have to do this shit again.” Same holds true for standing in front of a judge or catching up on old debt. Or moving!
I’ve just really had enough. Considering how each corner of my life has been a “oh shit will get better if” situation, one after another…..then you lose it all. Makes you want to throw in the towel. I suppose up to this point I always relied on my faith to keep me going. That’s not a hitch anymore. I’ve taken plenty in and have come to peace with fact there’s no afterlife for eternity. Come on, how did I ever buy into that? I get bored with everything/everyone quickly anyway. ….can’t imagine what eternity anywhere would be like. With depression I find so much comfort in sleep. Not in drinking anything, having sex or doing any activities that cost money. That’s what I think death offers, the endless sleep. The oblivion that will be great to slip into.
I don’t have the urges I once had at all. I don’t want to make a million dollars, have a beautiful wife or nice parties with plenty of friends. I’ve done all that. I always come back to no fulfillment eventually. It sucks, I grew up poor, lived in shortly conditions while in the military and witnessed the sad life of third world countries. I know how fortunate I am and admit I have a bunch of first world problems. I’m not happy, do not have an ideaof what would make me happy, and I’m not dwelling on the prospect of hell or afterlife promises any longer.
Why am I still here? Waiting for the right time, the right amount of courage to swing from the rafters. I already know the panic instinct is going to be nearly impossibleto overcome. I’ve experienced in combat, life threatening situations and times when life wants you survive. It’s going to be hard, but worth it.
There’s times when the bipolar brain has its advantages, but then there’s times when you’ve played long enough. Good luck to those that can handle the human condition and know how to stick around for the “shit is going to get better” around the corner. Guess it doesn’t pay to be an over acheiver because you take it all for granted anyway.
I did it, I reached my goals and destroyed my life. No thanks on rebuilding, I’ll take the dirt nap.
22 comments
how about helping others
I agree with your point about things needing to be within the right range in order to take the plunge. If things are going well, then I get a false sense of hope (again!) and I opt to wait to see if it continues (it never does). When things are so awfully depressing, I don’t want to do anything… eat, leave the house, or even die. My most suicidal moments have not been when I was in utter depression or despair… They have been when I was a few notches up and was able to think clearly. I was able to clearly process what I had been through, concluded that it would return, and that death was the best move.
Yet, I’m still here.
Helping others is a short lived high and its not enough to stick around for. I know, it’s selfish.
maybe so
That sought after spot is so hard to obtain. When I’m not drowning in depression I can appreciate the cycle and realize it’s horrible way to live. Life should be way more enjoyable for oneself. Like ITS said, I have no idea what will make me happy. You need goals to work towards. I simply don’t have any.
yeah… what do you do when you realize you don’t want to do anything? Or that anything you want to do, is both unattainable, and will only be momentarily fulfilling, eventually achieving the same result as doing nothing at all?
My hypothesis is that it’s not the depression that’s ruining us; it’s the way our predecessors built the world into which we are born, and the way the established systems function.
In other words: the depression is not the cause, but the symptom.
That’s deep, but I follow it.
So you feel depression is mainly environmental?
I feel it’s both environmental and part of genetic makeup. I don’t just struggle with the horrible limitations of depression but also the false promise of happiness that mania provides. Its a two headed snake that finds next to no meaning at the end of the day.
@BipolarAmerican I, too, have bipolar disorder and I seem to suffer more from the lows than the highs. Manic episodes can be fulfilling because I have this grand sense of being able to do accomplish and overcome I want in the world while continuing to be “happy”. Sometimes there’s a little rage, depending on the situation. Unfortunately, after every high comes a crashing low. Some of those manic episodes weren’t always euphoric. I’ve hurt people close to me (they’ve never spoken to me again), I’m in a heap of debt (needing to file bankruptcy but can’t afford a lawyer), I can’t find a job (I have a Masters degree). It’s like once you come back down or to “reality”, then you have a big mess to attempt to clean up. Sometimes the mess is beyond repairable.
I wonder…what the hell is the point in this thing called Life? Idk.
Every day my “reality” is different which is why it’s been hard for me to take the final plunge, despite 2 attempts.
even genetics are environmentally impacted. The environment played a crucial role in facilitating the combination of those two sets of reproductive material, as well as how the embryo develops and is nourished, as well as what stimuli is encountered by the newborn, and what mental constructs are instilled into its mind, forming its perceptions, affecting its thoughts, actions and choices, throughout its life.
It’s all connected… and i think that if the environment issues (not talking about ecology and tree-hugging…) could be corrected, or at least minimized, we would not have so many issues blamed on genetics, in the process of attempting to defend the system people are taught is both necessary and beneficial, while also being taught to ignore its extremely serious and detrimental flaws.
Genetic malformations would not necessarily disappear in the absence of the systems’ corruption… but if the system wasn’t wrong, i think we would have less issues in valuing more variations in genetics, instead of the current way of shunning everything suboptimal, and blaming people for the conditions of their birth, rather than the system that makes their genetics incompatible with it.
I also agree with the notion of rejecting “mania,” due to the fact that inappropriately embraced positivity, aka “hope,” is notorious for resulting in profound disappointment, even to the point of literally ruining someone’s life in the ensuing devastation and despair. If someone hopes too strongly, for something they cannot attain or achieve… the encountering of that reality can often break them… shattering their mind, rendering them psychologically “disabled.” It is possible to traumatize a person enough to destroy them, even if it doesn’t kill their body.
I think it’s helpful to try to pay attention to your moods, and to get better at identifying what is “mania,” and what is “normal excitement” over valid and actual… parameters, i guess.
@ArtNHeaven you summed that up beautifully! In the scheme of things,life is pretty pointless when you’re on the bipolar yo-yo. The depression is one thing, but dealing with the fallout after a manic episode makes life unbearable. When things are going well for me even before a manic episode and not too depressed,life is still not that fucking great. I’ve gone through jobs, money, destroyed property and severed relationships beyond repair. Which is hard to accept because my everyday anxiety limits me to making quality friendships. The buildup and teardown is ridiculous. The interim that is littered with trying medications, they simply don’t improve life for me. I’ve pushed through long enough. I don’t have the will to see what happens next.
Life is very over rated. Bipolar isn’t manageable for some. Living through this misery is a complete hopeless
@Clevername, My biggest hang up is not being happy unless I’m in mania. It feels so much better than the depression thatI’m used to. I have few levels of low moods and only one high mood which is mania. There is no phases in between no matter what therapists and doctors claim. Mania is what seek I and it’s not healthy for me or anyone else involved. I think it’s as simple as knowing I’m living in a world that’s not meant for me.
well… lack of innate purpose, lack of the world being “meant for you,” doesn’t have to manifest as insurmountable incompatibility.
Much of the time, it seems like the world runs on the disparity between mania and depression, and the oscillatory motion generated by the perpetual balancing act between both… and not the achievement of perfect balance, itself. Without the disparity and fluctuations, stasis would ensue. It’s the swinging back and forth of all contestant forces, which generates the progression through time. If things were ever to reach true, perfected equilibrium, there would be nothing left to stimulate growth… nothing to achieve… nothing to do.
I don’t think the world was “meant for” anything at all. I think we’re just here, and it is what it is, and for a while, we have the chance, or the illusion thereof, to try to do something we like with it. I think too many people place far too much emphasis on the need for some innate “purpose” to exist, when it’s really not necessary at all. We can create meaning without needing to be assigned a meaning from some… whatever, beyond our perception.
It’s possible for us to look around and see things we should do, and understand why we should do them, even in the absence of any divine “meaning.” And it’s almost impossible, for me, to coexist with people who still absolutely require a divine mandate to guide them, and insist on relating every event they can observe, to that fantastical fallacy. It makes communication impossible, which makes them nothing more than potentially threatening obstacles to progress. And if things are ever going to reach a worthwhile level of “better,” then we need to be progressing, not trying to stagnate things while clinging to archaic misunderstandings passed down through socially beneficial traditions and conventional status quo.
That balance you speak of is an illusion. I straddle it and findlittle enjoyment as time slips by. I cling to the hope that it’ll get better because I witness herds of people get by. It doesn’t come nearly as easy for me. Fully aware life isn’t easy or fair for anyone, but reaching a point of despair time and time again makes me ready for checking out. Not a matter of if, but when.
Everything else in life has the option of quiting. Life has the same benefit.
That balance you speak of is an illusion. I straddle it and findlittle enjoyment as time slips by. I cling to the hope that it’ll get better because I witness herds of people get by. It doesn’t come nearly as easy for me. Fully aware life isn’t easy or fair for anyone, but reaching a point of despair time and time again makes me ready for checking out. Not a matter of if, but when.
Everything else in life has the option of quiting. Life has the same benefit.
@BipolarAmerican I feel like I’m doing the same thing–stringing along with the HOPE, not expectation, that things will get better. I’ve spent lots of money going to tarot readers, psychics, mediums…whatever…tell me how great of a life I had/have ahead of me. I won’t lie, it has given me some hope and/or reason to stick around. Too bad most of the shit hasn’t come to fruition and may never will.
I totally agree with Clevername about how influential/powerful our environments are. We’ve been taught how precious life is and how you only get one chance and you’ll be judged. I’ve begun to question EVERYTHING. Maybe there is no reason we’re here but to experience. Maybe this entity called is just a mass of conscious energy. Who’s to say if I don’t leave this life, I can’t live a better somewhere else. I don’t have the answers but I DAMN SURE have the questions.
For a short bit, I was doing crystal meth because it was the most similar feeling to mania I ever had. Of course, the long term effect wasn’t good. Thankfully, I had the power to stop (on my own). Ultimately, I’ve been looking for an escape from my pain without actually having to kill myself. You know–waiting around until things get better.
@clevername For the longest, I was searching and thought I had a so-called purpose–particularly a divine one…..LOL. Boy oh boy, life has shaken me up so bad, I’m starting to believe there is no point and that’s the damn point. I almost feel like we’re all kids playing in/on a big cosmic playground.
But lately, all this self-help talk about how we have the power to determine our own destinies has me a bit curious and annoyed at the same time. Life just isn’t that simple for everyone.
Whoa! Crystal Meth!
All I ever used to escape was alcohol and it fuels my manic feel-good sensors like nothing else. I don’t judge others for using whatever gets the spun up to feel better. If the medication worked, we wouldn’t be searching for other alternatives in alcohol or street drugs.
The heart of the problem is I can’t just be happy to be alive. It’s quite frustrating. Having an education, decent family and good health. But its just never enough.
@ArtNHeaven:
Think of it like a multiple choice test: you can pick A, B, C, D, or maybe E or F… but you don’t get to choose what choices are included as possible answers to each question. You get to pick one, hopefully the right one, usually the least upsetting one… and in that way, we do “have the power to determine our futures,” but it is not complete, because we don’t write the test. Other people’s choices, in the environments and conditions in which they exist, write the tests for everyone else. In that way, we have no power at all, and are indeed “products of our environments.”
Which brings me back to the idea that people are always arbitrarily arguing over absolutes, pretending that their justification of one or another is “correct,” such as the “nature versus nurture” argument. Why is that even an argument? Isn’t it obvious to any reasonably capable mind, that it’s BOTH? Obviously, some things just are as they are, and are not the result of choosing… but other things are definitely the result of choosing, and could have been chosen differently. Then again, i could manipulate the argument with the fact that nurture IS nature, because nature existed before anything was sentient to make any choices to nurture anything, and that nurture is a result of nature, because we are natural beings, doing what we feel we should do, much of which is to nurture each other, both as a byproduct, and as an evolution, of nature.
Here’s where i’m going with this:
We can look around at all the observable evidence, and say “okay, there is a lot to not like about the current conditions. Should we just leave it as it is? Or should we attempt to improve it for some reason?” I tend to think that when stuff sucks, we should try to make it not suck, you know? It’s really that simple. And so there’s your basic purpose: find what sucks, try to make it not suck, or at least suck a bit less. Meanwhile, try not to let your whole life pass you by, submerged in involuntary suck-ness… because as far as we can figure, this is the only one we get, and may be our only chance to ever enjoy anything. So try to find a way to split your time between “duty to mankind,” and “duty to self.” Because if your duty to mankind “make stuff suck less” ends up making your entire life suck, for you… then isn’t that defeating the purpose? 1) make stuff suck less, when/where possible. 2) enjoy what doesn’t suck, when/where possible. 3) ???
Obviously, it can be elaborated, expanded and refined… but that’s basically it.
Unfortunately, this crazy world in which we currently exist, has made BOTH of those basic principles nearly unattainable for far too many people… while so many are taught to ignore the problems caused by those very same systems, which prevents many of us from 1) making things suck less, in any significant way, and 2) enjoying what doesn’t suck, by making it too difficult to reach.
And so… “striving” for what cannot be reached, is what keeps the world going. That’s not really “balance,” which is not what i was saying it was. I was saying it is the IMbalance, and the inability to reach what we would pursue, that keeps things going. The illusory part is when people are raised to think they can “be anything they want to be,” or simply not taught that reality does not simply bend to anyone’s whim, just by wishing or believing hard enough, that it will.
So, there is some self-help that can be useful… but the problem is that it has to be motivated by a realistic and justifiable expectation of achieving something worth the effort required to make it successful, which is often lacking. That’s where the problem lies.
What, of what can actually be reached, is worth reaching for? And if i can’t find a suitable answer to that… what am i supposed to do, if i really just don’t want to do anything else, of what is actually available to be reached? And no one seems to ever have a good answer for that, which is where suicide ends up filling the gap.
just to clarify: i’m not saying “we’re being tested” by some divine being… but rather using “multiple choice test” as an analogy, to showcase the difference between “choice” and “circumstance.” Sometimes our choices can control circumstances, but which choices are available to be chosen, is often determined by circumstance, much of which is beyond our capacity to control, due to so much of “extended circumstances” being the results of other people’s choices, which is something most of us cannot control.
If i were allowed to just write in my own custom answers, circumstance would be irrelevant. Unfortunately, it has never worked that way for me, and i don’t think it works that way for most people, though a few have seemingly been able to do exactly that. And i don’t think that opportunity, to just write in your own custom answers, is available to everyone. People who get to do that, are insanely lucky, and should not be used as the standard by which we are judged, nor the standard by which we judge ourselves. And yet… look at all those “self-help-gurus” out there (among others) judging us by exactly that criteria. It’s not THAT we judge, but HOW, and WHY we use the criteria we use.
I wish more people would stop and ask themselves: “why do i think what i think?”
Exactly! Reaching for something gives you all the motivation you need to get by in this life. It seems my life has had a collection of those things, but I’ve ran out. As far as my multiple choices go, I have life or death. And the latter has always been there, just not tempting as it appears to be now.
@clevername, what do you do? Your ideas and speech are one of a kind. I’m curious
@BipolarAmerican I’m on medication and it’s helped a lot and keeps my moods stable (i.e. less “severe” and fewer manic episodes, less moodswings and less rapid cycling), but I still have some issues with the depression.
Despite the impulsivity and the rage, mania (to an extent) can sometimes feel enjoyable. So I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve always had a hard time “living” in the moment, so I don’t fully appreciate until it’s gone because I’m constantly thinking about the crashing low that will follow. In my case, after a manic episode, 99.9% of the time I end up “crashing” into a lower state of depression.
Thankfully, I have less episodes and they are shorter-lived now.
I would never encourage drug use but when I found that when I did drugs, it gave me a similar feeling as mania. I preferred it to alcohol because mostly because the a) “high” lasts longer and b) alcohol *can* be a downer for me, particularly if I’m alone.
After a while, I realized whether it was a manic episode or drug high, there comes a point when the “high” comes down. That’s the part I hate the most, so I asked myself, “Why are you doing this to yourself?” Additionally, I knew I shouldn’t have been doing the drug anyway. I was using for about 6 months.
The only thing I know is life is all about perception. For example, what I perceive to be pain, someone else may perceive as “heightened pleasure” etc. Poor means something different in every country. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yadda Yadda Yadda.
While I may be thinking, “Life can be a bi-polar *****. Maybe we should it on some anti-depressants, moodstabilizers and psychotropics.” I’m sure there’s some little old, lady in the world who’s sick who probably thinks life is the most precious and beautiful thing in the world and probably proudly wears a smile.
Some people are shocked when the perceived pretty, upbeat, accomplished girl/boy commits suicide. They’ll say things like, “He seemed so happy.” or “She’ had everything going for her.” We all have different perceptions of our lives and life in general.
It never surprises me.
@clevername I really enjoy your posts. They are very thought-provoking. You are so right. Some people are very “lucky”
I see nothing wrong with looking up to “rag-to-riches” success story people, but my issue is I start to think about timing, location, social circles, etc. Then I start thinking “hmmm, is there some behind-the-scenes divine-interplay going on.
Oh yeah, who that person slept with….LOL
@ArtNHeaven I really don’t feel much difference with medication. I get caught up with the fog of depression and how the mood stabilizer meds give you the numb feeling. When you go a year or more in the basement of depression, the appeal of a manic state is such a welcomed event. It’s always short-lived and wow does it fuck things up.
This last manic episode left me feeling uncomfortable in my skin and I’m not wanting to work a miracle to start a new life all over again.