Did you ever notice that traditional media avoids talking about suicide attempts?
When there’s a wave of suicide and people are killing themselves in public (train, metro, bridges, etc), it never gets to the tv or the newspaper.
I studied journalism and they told me that journalists shouldn’t talk about suicide because they would inspire other people to do it.
But shouldn’t suicide be a personal decision? Shouldn’t suicide be talked about?
There’s this big tabu around it and you can’t talk about it, and that makes people who have this suicidal thoughts even more disconnected and alienated.
Why does society automatically think suicide is selfish and bad and don’t try to understand it?
Why isn’t suicide discussed?
I personally think that my life is my responsibility therefore I should have the choice.
31 comments
I believe most people would kill themselves if suicide was totally accepted by society, partly because it would be really easy to get access to painless methods and to be educated about it.
I disagree because that would imply that most people are suicidal and won’t kill themselves because it isn’t accepted and painless. Religion is the reason why it isn’t accepted. Sometime along the way, somebody decided to call suicide unacceptable and the unforgivable sin. Most people having some sort of faith and don’t want eternal damnation.
There is progression being made with euthanasia for terminally ill. In the next century, there is a good chance that it would be not only more acceptable suicide that is but medical suicide assistance for healthy individuals included.
I think there’s valid basis for both positions here. If suicide was freely available with no social stigma, many folks who’ve made colossal mistakes would just off themselves if the option were available, instead of “going back to the drawing board” and rising from the ashes of their failures. I think virtually everyone hits a point in life were they seriously consider suicide, at least for a few moments. So, where it THAT easy, it’s possible the rate would go up by large percentages… that said, I think ICmd is correct in that it still wouldn’t be “most” people that would follow through even if there was nothing (pain/socially) to stop them.
Of course, religion is a huge reason for why we “view” suicide the way it is today … but it was also out of necessity. When you think back to times of the dark ages etc., people were needed for labor and defense so the powerful had to come up with something that would keep people from taking the suicide option and remain pawns as the preferable option. It’s really insidious when you think of religion in these terms, that it was used to bolster the rich and powerful while keeping the poor, sick and destitute around to do their bidding and these poor folks actually preferred this to the “alternative” of condemning their “everlasting soul” for all time
… but also you can imagine that feudal kings and land barons would openly threaten any family of a suicide victim with torture and death if they should successfully take their own lives
big picture dawg
I don’t think that many people would consider suicide as REAL option. They say “I wanted to kill myself somewhere in my life” but they don’t mean it seriously. Even I with uncurable mental condition am hesitant to take suicide really serious and I have fucking reason. So many people of course suffer from something, but most of the time ts not something that deep that it would really require a suicide like heavy and uncurable mental or physical condition.
The stigma is caused by two quite natural phenomena. First is that most people didn’t suffer that much in life that they could even imagine what is in mind of suicide person. Thats itself is kind of alienating and man’s natural response to anything strange and unconfortable is to make taboo of it. If we all pretend its not really existing in our world, it doesn’t (only strangers who are not part of society do it). Doing otherwise, be caring, compashionate and reasoning would require training which is nowhere to be found.
Second thing is that suicide, even thinking about it, is in deep conflict with what most people are trying to do – survive and be successful. If you go directly against main values of people, its not that hard to imagine someone would make even a crime of it.
And then comes religion which takes those quite natural reactions and perverts them in its own fashion for its own reasons.
It is possible for society to have more open view on suicide (and it already happened). But it requires effort. Effort to acknowledge that death is part of life, that people can comes to really bad situations, what are mental illnesses etc. Then you can find more appropriate aproach to whats happening all the human history. If you let your primitive emotions take you over, we know what will come of it – pure ignorance…
Suicide has been a discrasing way to die since the ancient years. Most if not all civilasations consider a person who killed him self as a failure in life and someone who would be damned in his after life by the gods. All these evolved in our years and suicide still stigmatizes the family of the deceased and even in some countries is forbidden by law (if you fail, you go to jail). I believe it will never be accepted as normal way to exit as if it is an accident or natural causes. Also religion play its part on all this and of course insurance companies and government agencies who don’t want suicide rates to raise.
Don’t speak for all cultures. Asian cultures during the samurai times regarded suicide as honorable. Not all civilizations consider a person who commits suicide a failure. You’re generalizing a lot which shows your ignorance.
ICmd … your factual counterpoint was a sufficient response … and on point … the ad hominem was unwarranted. It doesn’t make you “look smarter”, it actually does quite the opposite. I hope it was a temporary lapse.
ref dawg
Dawg, I have no desire to prove my intelligence. Just stating facts. I don’t know where you’re going.
Ok – I’ll be more direct
The “ignorance” comment – was not warranted, helpful, useful in any way. Know your audience. Whether it’s “factual” or not, it just not very in tune” with the general audience here. People are struggling here in all manner of facets with their lives so unless they’ve made some overt attempt to engage you in some tit for tat debate, please recognize that going out of your way to point out someone’s limited information/understanding of a particular subject just doesn’t play well and has a tendency to backfire.
Again, I hope it was just an oversight.
clarity dawg
That is why i wrote “most if not all”. Also i quote this “Part of the samurai bushido honor code, seppuku was used either voluntarily by samurai to die with honor rather than fall into the hands of their enemies (and likely suffer torture) or as a form of capital punishment for samurai who had committed serious offenses, or performed because they had brought shame to themselves”. Suicide of samurai is either not to fall into enemies hands which many cultures have it or considered a punishment.Don’t try to be hostile please, state your opinion and that’s that.
The acceptance of suicide among the samurai in Japan never became commonplace among the general public. Different cultures have/had different ideas about under what circumstances suicide is excusable and what penalties should result for unacceptable suicides, but I don’t know of any culture that openly embraced/embraces it for all citizens.
@dawg: you are totally cracking me the hell up and making my day with you dawg sign offs after your comments. I know this is a serious topic….carry on.
I didn’t offend gkks. I was accurate with my disagreement. Since when is calling someone ignorant wrong when their statement was ignorant? My point was made and take it how you want. I’ll try next time not to hurt too many feelings.
You have a solid argument but lose credibility when making personal attacks. Like dawg said it is an ad hominem, which makes the argument personal. Although there aren’t really ad hominem rules here, unlike other debate forums I’m part of. That was all the folks here were saying.
Good argument, wish it was delivered better.
So called “society” is stupid in even much more simple things so no way they could understand such a difficult theme as suicide. Most people and societes are driven by pure animalistic and survivalistic urges – they either don’t understand suicide or they think its some kind of fail like you fail on having more money etc. You cannot argue with those people, it would be like arguing with wild predator animals about who to kill.
More imaginative people who understand personal integrity and suffering are closer to take it, but it will be still difficult for them to accept it.
Society has to pretend either that it didn’t happen or that it was individual failure, because otherwise guess what – they would have to admit it was their failure…
In Japanese Culture it is allowed and even considered honorable in some situations.
Even currently? I often wonder if western culture has watered that down a lot in Japan.
Japan isn’t as accepting of it as the West has been led to believe.
This subject triggers the same scapegoating as, well, any other subject. In reality, each culture must considered individually if one is to truly understand their stance on suicide (past or present) .
If we look ONLY at Western society over the last century or so, it has largely changed from a Christian perspective to a psychiatric one. It is considered a mental illness to feel suicidal and a consequence of that illness if one follows through.
I should add that among the general population it is often seen as a weakness or a distorted way of thinking.
Actually from experience and talking with friends suicide can vary in regions of Japan and generally is considered dark spiritually speaking from which no one talks about it openly considering that religion influences society here and common places of suicide like aokigahara have been denominated as areas where death abounds. Honorable times in Japan have long passed since wll.
I am glad to see the viewpoint of those who live in Japan, as I have never been there. I know Japan has largely adopted the Western psychiatric view of suicide.
Who cares what fucking society thinks of you? Particularly when you’re dead. Then you’ve got nothing to worry about.
I knew two people who killed themselves. I do not think it has made me more suicidal; then again, I already was. Anyway, that is only anecdotal.
On the one hand I worry about legitimizing suicide: look at kamikaze, seppuku and suicide bombers.
On the other, I fear that silence feeds the epidemic.
I think if they completely eliminated involuntary commitment for suicide attempts or ideation, and instead suicide became widely accepted and supported, with assisted suicide available for some, that the suicide rate would plummet.
Of course, we could then find yourself with the problem of people being pressured into committing suicide. There is certainly a precedent for that. We humans can turn anything into a lose-lose proposition.
*ourselves, not yourself
Dangit, I promised I wasn’t going to use voice to text ever again!
Doesn’t Holland have that?
And Switzerland. People have been granted assisted suicide for mental issues, but it’s a very difficult and expensive process and most people are turned away.
Belgium too
Suicide is not accepted because it is quitting, we “human beings” are not quitters we are survivors, it’s what we do! although we lose the battle sooner or later anyways, if your in pain, dying of a decease, it is almost acceptable to let you put yourself out of your misery, but not just because your depressed, or unhappy, right or wrong. i can easily say if your unhappy tired of living and want to die that if you kill yourself, i guarantee you your pain will be over, and you will be at peace, i can also tell you that one day that will happen like it or not, death is nothing to fear, but i can’t speak for the whole world, i’d hate to think that is was so easy that it would be so socially accepted that if you had a bad day you could just end your life, i would have died a thousand times! i respect everyone’s decision, but also it is remarkable that we were born, and that we can feel, and we can think as individuals, this will never happen again, i say stick it out, try to follow your dreams do the best you can, it’s only a short while before you slip back into non existence like before you were born and it never will happen again.