This is not a judgement on anyone’s life or lifestyle.Â
I have noticed how the pro-life people always say that suicide is a selfsh act because it will hurt people who are left behind. Or maybe it will leave certain responsibilities unfinished or undone.Â Â This is true to an extent.Â What they are saying is that others lives and comfort matter more than yours on all levels and you should bear suffering and responsibility for the sake of others in your life.Â Except for a little personal pleasure that you should seek out meaning by serving others.Â It is a vlaid viewpoint.
There are people all over the world now who CHOOSE to live off the labor and the product of others.Â There are people who actually are emotional vampires who THRIVE off the mental and emotional Â pain and misery of others.Â People who ENJOY causing physical distress and abuse to others.There are people who USE all types of means to trick and cajole others and to make profit off of it.Â Â And sme ascribe to traditions, lifestyles, and belief systems that pretty much CONDEMN anyone who is different.Â Â Â Are not all those things selfish?
And these people are some who actually cause enough pain that some of usÂ want to die rather than deal with it.Â Yet those who want to die are considered selfish because they are tired of trying to end the pain. Because they are tired of the recurring suffering. Because they are tired of people telling them it will get better with work and effort but its years later and it does not.Â Because they just feel like the meaning others add to life just is not worth it to them.
So to those who would label suicidal people selfish, shame on you.Â If more humans would make more kind decisions in general many of us would not want to die.
When you start looking for selfish, look for the ones who use their selfishness to survive.
I agree that there are lots of selfish people out there, and in an ideal world there shouldn’t. But that does not give me the right to be selfish myself. I want to go to bed at night and be able to look in the mirror and be proud that I am not like them.
As far as suicide being selfish: in certain situations that is true, otherwise I’d be long gone; I’ve got children I have to consider. In other situations your suffering may be so intolerable and unfixable that it outweighs the suffering caused by your death. But it’s never something to be decided on a whim without very carefully weighing up all possibilities and alternatives.
But it does give some people the right to feel like for once in their life they can choose something that someone else considers selfish to end their pain.
As far as whims, from the suicide sites I have been on these people are not killing themselves on whims.
The last straw may seem like it but usually they have histories of what to them is tragedy that brings them to this point.
And even if they did it on a whim, it is their pain. And their choice.
And to want them to suffer for the fate of others is slefishness on the part of the opinion holder and those who want them to stay.
All sides are selfish in a fashion.
The only thing I fight for is choice and equality.
Not telling people what to do but defending those who others may chastise or criticize.
I don’t think suicide is selfish. I think it’s unfortunate. Yes… I have a history that has sequentially built up to where things are now. I don’t have any dependents and I am not close to anybody. For the longest time, decades, I felt as if I was walking around with a bullseye on me and there was nothing I could do about it… except complain, whine, and just be irked about it. At a certain point, enough became enough. I know when things aren’t going to add up… and at 40 I know where things stand. I still know where things stand.
What concerns me most is the amount of young people, on and off this site, who are contemplating suicide. Someone in their teens and twenties is just starting out… and their whole world is ahead of them. Suicide shouldn’t be their answer. Ideally, suicide shouldn’t be anybody’s answer… and I’ll do my best to show somebody the light. It’s easier for me to cast the light outward than it is for me to shine it inward.
When my moment comes, it won’t be something I decided in a minute… It will be after a succession of trials and failures. At a certain point, it is what it is… Those who have done their best to bury me proverbially will have succeeded in burying me literally. I wish no ill will on anyone… They are in the majority. I was in the majority. Darwin’s Theory. Plain and simple.
*edit: I was in the minority.
I am entirely with you distant.road. I am in my late 40s myself, life a sad buildup of mistakes and bad judgements and just a whole lot of bad luck. With one difference and that’s I do have children (and they for once were no mistake, and for now are happy).
U.n. – we have the right to *feel* like we want to be selfish for once, but that’s different from actually acting selfish, and having the right to do so.
Suicide should never be an act of revenge, only ever be an act of last resource in the face of unbeatable suffering. With what I have been through, I’ve been tempted too, to not just kill myself but also leave a note (in my darkest hours) to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Nobody could blame me for that, it would be justice of a sort. But I don’t want to be such a person, sink down to that level, make someone else suffer as I do, even if they deserve it. That is my choice.
All that being said, unbeatable suffering does exist, as does the right in my opinion to suicide, and one day (when my children are independent enough) I may still exercise that. Part of me hopes that not, and the other part of me cannot wait for that day.
good post owen ..
if I had written this, ‘go f-ck yourself’ would have been used instead of ‘shame on you’
I feel incredibly guilty for thinking about doing what I’m going to do I don’t know how my disabled husband will fare but he has alot of resources so he will get by.I expect he will think I’m selfish but arnt we all one way or another.to those who judge us I would ask them to walk a mile in our shoes and see how that goes for them I have isolated myself because I’m so depressed I don’t want to put that on others.I just got a letter saying I couldn’t keep to dogs that makes me want to die even more they are the only reason I’ve made it this far
I do respect your perspective. And I really hope that someone is inspired to live by your words.
I do disagree with the young people choosing suicide. And anyone who has read my posts can tell I tell them that at least live through adulthood first.
I am just amazed at how murderers and rapists do not get put in mental wards for being insane as well. And given drugs and therapy to stop them from hurting others.
Yet something is wrong with me for wanting to take my own life and not harm anyone else. It is ridiculous.
Society accepts all this crap from people who hurt others and does little about it. But when you want to kill yourself all of a sudden they want to seriously interfere.
Our own nation has legally santioned murder of foreign people just to get to small cadres of folks they label terrorists.
So I can sign up for the military and openly get my brains blown out to ‘serve’ the USA but if I let it be known i want to do it because I am tired of living then society has a problem with it.
It is nuts.
@truthbetold high five …
Would you feel that your husband was selfish if he wanted to end his life because of his disability? Do not answer if it is too tough for you. I mean no offense but would just like to know where you stand on the issue.
And that is messed up about the dogs. Usually pets help keep people in good cheer.
Uh…. murderers and rapists get put into prison instead of mental wards. And they get imprisonment or death penalty to stop them hurting others, instead of drugs and therapy.
I respect your decision but that was a terrible analogy.
Most murderers do not get the death penalty.
If they do they sit on death row for 20 or 30 years.
And unless they are a serial killer, or it is a race or hate crime many murderers and rapists can get out in 5-10 years.
And nothing is done to get their minds in order which means most of them will hurt people again. Because jail is neither a real punishment for them nor a rehabilitation.
And all this is done on the taxpayers dime.
Whereas the individual and family have to pay for the therapy and drugs of suicidal people in most cases. And at least some of us have some kind of healing. And nobody has to worry about us harming anyone else in most cases.
I am overlooking the flawed reality in the legal system because the ETHIC behind it is that they WILL be rehabilitated and the public WILL be safe from them.
I just don’t see the point in misdirecting anger here. If you don’t want to go to a mental ward, it’s fairly easy to avoid. Just don’t hurt anyone and don’t tell anyone your intentions.
In your country, it’s not only the mentally ill who suffer. Anyone who suffers any kind of illness has to pay their own medical bills. This is an inequity of healthcare, NOT JUST directed at the mentally ill.
In Australia, UK and most of europe, the mentally ill are entitled to financial help from the government, just as the physically ill are.
Owen: in killing ourselves most of us do much harm to others, psychological and emotional harm that sometimes is so intense it leads to further suicides. Suicide of a close friend or relative is a known and proven risk factor for that. So to say we don’t do any harm in most cases is only trie for people who live truly isolated lives. Most may think they are unloved (that is a symptom of the depressive or other mental health condition) but few really are.
human hypocrisy never ceases to baffle me
(assuming you let some know about your suicide contemplation)
why would a relative/close friend do something (s)he spent months/years trying to talk you out of, telling you it’s never the answer, encouraging you to get some professional help etc ?
why is suicide experienced as more painful than a regular death ? why isn’t an OD or a car accident where the driver was too drunk seen as suicide ?
Because it is seen by most people as a deliberate act that could have been avoided by getting more help/reaching out. People who have not experienced that level of pain and despair just cannot see that a suicide sometimes is just as unavoidable as death of cancer or death by accident.
When I recently was in a psychiatric hospital I once got very close to doing it, and much later talked to one of the nurses about it, a very nice one I trust very much. She asked me with some disbelief: “why would anyone do this while they are in here?” Because this clinic is a very nice and supportive place. She, even as a psychiatric nurse, could not understand the intensity of that internal pain, despite her experience, which can drive you over the edge no matter how much support you have. She could not understand because she never herself suffered from depression.
Few people can really understand, and that’s why they cannot move beyond the perception that suicide was a deliberate act by the one who died.
That is the problem. It cannot be overlooked because the reality rarely or never works as the idea. Too many friends and family raped and killed by some person who wanted a momentary taste of power or a couple of bucks for crack.
And the amount of women I know who wre molested or raped by someone they trusted is staggering.
But that is accepted as ‘sane’ but criminal. And that can also cause lasting emotional pain on families and victims.
While someone who kills themselves and can ONLY cause emotional pain unless they do it wrong, is considered ‘insane’. I just do not get it.
I totally agree.
I just think it is unfair for one to have to wake up ever day hating the fact they are alive and hating themselves just to keep others happy.
To have to pay for therapy and drugs just to satisfy people who do not need therapy and drugs to survive.
U.N u pretty much nailed it imo. I’m suffering from depression, anxiety since i was 20, Iâ€™m 32 now and am considering my options as well. I remember being so annoyed with people who said things like suicide is selfish and people who do commit the act are weak and lazy. Honestly if you are suicidal and those sorts of statements are bothering you then don’t let them. People have been committing suicide with impunity for thousands of years now through smoking, drinking and drugs NORMAL people with a chance and a choice and don’t fool yourself into thinking itâ€™s not the same thing because every single one of you that do smoke (myself included), drink or take drugs consciously know that you are physically harming your body, shortening your life span and KILLING YOURSELF just because youâ€™re doing it over a longer period of time doesn’t change the fact that youâ€™re in exactly the same boat as a suicidal person in fact isn’t it more humane to end oneâ€™s life quickly rather than to have it drawn out?
That aside human beings in general are selfish! of course I canâ€™t speak for every single person on the planet but i think itâ€™s safe to say the majority have committed selfish acts at least once in their life and most regularly, generally to further improve their lives or for material gain and like most have pointed out expecting people to stick around so you don’t have to deal with their deaths is also incredibly selfish especially since youâ€™re not the one with the problems tsk, tsk. Then there are the general quick answer that people throw out because when a person owns up to being suicidal the person trying to help feels obligated to say something not because they truly care but because what if that person does commit suicide and you never tried to help <——- then that's on their conscious (selfish) things like
1.) life is a gift from god…bullshit…life may be a gift to some people yes but take a trip to Africa and see how the poor live over there and then come back and tell me that again
2.) Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem….really? lemme see I have had depression / anxiety for 12 years now have gone for help and told that I cannot cure my condition but learn to control it or contain it, but wait what if I don't want to control or contain it? What then? yes I know there is treatment EXPENSIVE treatment which of course you cannot get for free because money trumps human compassion or kindness and who wants to live their lives living emotionless forever some may…I do not.
3.) someone cares…I think we can all agree that that is not true not everyone has family or friends…I lost my friends due to my situation I canâ€™t say I blame them if I was in there shoes I would have done the same thing – the humiliation they all put me through the last time I seen them was uncalled for though, family? True I do have family though I only consider my father to truly care about me and he is the only reason I am still sticking around. I have made my family aware that I have considered suicide and still am not for attention or to scare them but rather to prepare them because I know being surprised by finding the body and having had no clue would make things so much worse. The response I got was. â€œDonâ€™t do that!…imagine what people will think, that Iâ€™m a bad mother or something?â€ I know its seems like im whining..Iâ€™m not, I think when youâ€™re in this situation and your feeling guilty about hurting other due to this unfortunate situation you look and the actions or statements of others to see if your justified in taking your own life, if that makes senseâ€¦and when it comes to my family (besides my father) I feel totally justified not because I blame them for what Iâ€™m going through because I donâ€™t however I do feel that they could have tried even after I made them aware of how I was feeling and their constant negative approach to EVERYTHING in life wasnâ€™t helping meâ€¦nothing changed. So yeah to everyone out there who is suicidal, youâ€™re not alone and I know that much is important to you because itâ€™s important to me, I hate that youâ€™re going through a similar situation but in a sense relieved that Iâ€™m not the only oneâ€¦(yes Iâ€™m selfish 2 :P)
Very well stated my friend.
And I am sorry you have to suffer the things you do.
I could not agree more in everything you said and indeed you are not alone.