I grew up in the church. Hell, I should say I was the church. At many of the churches I attended, my five older siblings, my parents, the pastor, and I made up the whole congregation. But that didn’t matter. Because the God I knew and loved was there. He was in my church, he was in my thoughts, he was in my life… but somewhere along the lines, one of us left. Now, it’d be easy to point fingers and say that I left. After all, I’m the human being shaped in iniquity, and He’s the all-knowing God. But me? Why would I leave? Why would I abandon a God that showed me what seemed to be unconditional, unequivocal, never-ending love? What sane human being would give that up? I didn’t change. I didn’t change. My hopes, my dreams, my goals, my beliefs, everything about me stayed the same. I didn’t want anything extravagant or outlandish. I just wanted what I wanted, and what I wanted to know was that God was real in my life. But… as the days passed on, the less and less He showed himself. And the more fervently I prayed, the more fervently He set Himself on disappearing out of my life. And I’d ask him why. I try my absolute hardest to be the best person I can be. I don’t smoke, I don’t drink, and I don’t sleep around. I lie as little as possible, I don’t gossip, and I treat people with the respect they damn well don’t deserve. So, what kind of God doesn’t see fit to step in and intervene? What kind of God watches me cry in the shower and cry myself to sleep and isn’t overwhelmed with sorrow for His “child”? What kind of God hears me tell Him that I am miserable, hears me ask Him to change my life, hears me ask Him for just a little something to prove my life isn’t a complete waste of crap and then does absolutely nothing? Surely not the same God I once knew, worshipped, believed in, and loved, right? And don’t say anything to me about having faith. Fuck faith. Don’t tell me about Abraham, David, Daniel, and you’d better not even mention the name Job. Because that God doesn’t exist anymore. Not for me. He has resolved himself not to give a damn about me. And why? Why am I not good enough for Him to worry about? Why am I not good enough to warrant His care? When He said to ask, seek, and knock, did He not mean me? Because I’ve tired my lungs out asking and screaming, I’ve gone blind from all the seeking, and I’ve damn near knocked the door down. So the promises He made in His word… who were those for me? Either they weren’t for me, or He lied. Either way, something’s amiss. Either way… I can’t believe anymore. I so badly want to believe. I sad badly want to trust. I so badly want to hope. But… what happened to that God that I could count on? That God whose love was real and true? Could somebody please tell me? Because it kills me to think about the absence of the God I once knew.
share your suicide story
Report Post
Please log in to report posts
32 comments
My religious beliefs are not the same as yours, but I feel exactly the same way you do. All my life I prayed and followed the teachings I was brought up with, but recently, I feel abandoned. And I pray, asking why I’ve been forsaken, and beg for divine intervention in my life, but there just doesn’t seem to be anyone who listens to those prayers.
@RachelJ First of all… I want to say I’m sorry that you have suffered so much… I don’t know what made you lose your hope… your trust in God… I guess life… all the suffering… But you know… God sees all our pain… He hears every cry of help… Maybe he doesn’t answer right away, or in the way we’ld expect him to… Maybe sometimes we’re so blind with despair that we can’t even see his help… But he does listen to our prayers… And… did you know that he promises that he will soon change this world and bring an end to all our suffering… an end to all our pain?
@whitepod I’m sorry that you feel he doesn’t listen to your prayers… that you feel abandoned by God… You know… I like a story I’ve heard a while back…
“A man was walking on the beach… and with him was God. The man looks behind him and sees two sets of footprints. He is happy and thanks God that he is with him… After a while the man starts to feel sick and to stumble… He asks God to help him… He looks back and sees only a set of footprints… The man cries out then: “My God, why have you abandoned me?” Then God answers to him: “I am carrying you on my arms, my child!”
The point is… maybe sometimes we don’t feel or see his help… but he does help us… All you can do is to listen to what he really asks of each of us. And hope that he will soon bring a time when every reason for pain and tears has ended…
The part where Christ didn’t turn his enemies into ash and let himself be killed, asking our God why HE of all people in the history of nice people was forsaken.
This far into the 21st century, and all the bad and good, we don’t get special treatment either. “Love one another.”, should be everyone’s goal.
That truth keeps the world turning, miss Rachel. Faith is hope, and that’s kept us moving forward, call it righteous indignation or just fucking mad as Hell, you are still here making your percentage of difference. You’re a responsible woman. You know what is fair. You know what is the correct thing to do.
God didn’t get angry at Christ for doubting Him at death’s door. He’s surely not mad at any of us for that, either. Here’s my last bit. Someone wishes they were brave. The next day they walk into a hungry lion. That person can either give up, or test their courage right then and there. The dead don’t get to celebrate a victory. And even the athiest who survives the lion unscathed will accidentally thank God for the experience.
I am shutting up now. 😉
@heartcore Yup, you’re right… God didn’t get angry at Christ for thinking he has abandoned him… God didn’t get angry at many people from the Bible that were so desperate and wanted to die… God showed that he understood them and he helped them…
Jesus let himself get killed… but for a reason. Do you know what that reason is? 🙂
Jesus was a real man – and his teachings of loving thy neighbor and treating people right are spot on … goals to strive to achieve. BUT … he is not the some of god – there is no god … never was, never will be. “virgin” mary pulled the greatest hoax for a illegitimate child ever – so much so that the child grew up believing that he was the son of god and founded a new world religion – jesus was a great man with beautiful teachings -too bad this world doesn’t actually listen to his true words to care for the least of us
The bible is a collection of history, fantasy and subliminal mind control of the powerful to control the masses. The bible itself is a farce as “the word of god” since it it is a collection of writings of men passed down through history for generations and only the stories that did not get quashed by the most powerful tribes survived until about 40 AD when the Romans under the emperor Constantine decided to adopt Christianity as their religion of choice but needed to consolidate it so they standardized the “bible” by having a council decide what was “divine” and what was supposedly bunk
The Romans did this purely as a means of expediency to best control their empire and unite it – who would want to defy god? right? and if Rome has “the one true god” on it’s side then they get obedience, and relative calm and peace throughout the lands.
All that said – I guess you can tell I am atheist … there just is no god – i don’t hate people who believe, i don’t hate god – because i can’t hate or be angry with that which does not exist … it’s be like hating unicorns and fairies.
But if you’re going to believe – go back and read the book of Job …or the story of Jonah – god does all sorts of fuckity things to “test” our faith. Either you persevere and take god’s challenge and remain faithful in your dark hour as Danial did in the lion’s den and Job did when all was stripped from him … and even as Jesus did on the cross.
… or you reject god in totality as a man made creation to control the masses and explain the explainable before modern science
But don’t be angry with god – it’s the worst of all options – i hope you find your peace but as i always learned through my religious studies god and jesus what us helping others before ourselves – seems everyone in the bible that expected god to answer or provide a specific result got hung out to dry – god don’t like selfishness … that is, if there is a god to like or dislike such things
mortal dawg
@Dawg It’s nice to have your opinion on this… 🙂
“Either you persevere and take god’s challenge and remain faithful in your dark hour… or you reject god in totality” I say… the best thing to do is to make sure that what you believe is true… And to believe what makes sense… Yes you’re right about all the hoaxes and using God’s name to control the people… But… isn’t this the most important question… If there is a God? And if he exists, don’t you think he would want to let us know what’s really going on in this world? What do you think, Dawg? 🙂
@JM20 – i’m not sure what you’re asking me – I know there is no god/gods/deities of any “higher” power that created some stuff out of thin air … what others choose to believe is up to them
scientific dawg
@Dawg I’m asking… Isn’t it important to make sure that what you believe is really the truth? And you say that you’re sure no higher deity exists… Then… how did life appear here on Earth? How did some simple particles suposedly got together and somehow created the infinitely more complex living cell? How did appear from nothing the complex information in the DNA? And… why did life apear? Cause the rest of the universe seems just fine with rocks, gas, plasma… And if life appeared for a reason… why do living creatures die? Doesn’t all of this make you think, Dawg? What do you say?
How did life appear on Earth?
Aliens of course!
They seeded the planet, of course … they spliced their advanced genes into the man-like native species that were here before they arrived… Feel free to prove my hypothesis any less true than yours that god created it … please don’t mistake my knowing/believing that there are no gods/deities for thinking for one minute that there CANNOT be gods or deities.
certainly it is possible – but in my time here in this “Eden” I believe that mystical, supernatural beings that can know all and be all and do all … yet choose to remain impotent and ignorant to the plight of many good people, sorry, it makes no logical sense. And if you’re going to tell me i’m too much of a peon to be allowed insider info into god’s plan that transcends human logic – that that’s a selfish and willfully hurtful god who i would reject anyway for being a complete douchenozzle.
No – if there was such a being, he/she/it wouldn’t sit idle while it’s supposedly beloved creations – ones that have lived well and been devoted to this being – suffer needlessly – no – such a loving, compassionate being, were it to exist, could not sit by and do naught
Now I grant you – that’s not “proof” any more than your belief that it would take a god to create a DNA sequence.
FYI – How do you “know” the rest of the universe is “just fine with rocks, gas, plasma”? WE are one planet in one solar system that has life – we have not yet had meaningful exploration out side of our solar system yet – there are MILLIONS of solar systems in our galaxy alone – i think it more likely that we could safely extrapolate that there will be many forms of life on other worlds far away in many stages of development, the vast number of types of species and organisms just on this planet should be evidence alone to think life will be plentiful throughout the universe/multiverse – to think otherwise is just narrow minded and egotistical.
But still – I won’t say there CANNOT be a god. I don’t know “why” everything is as it is – I just know, the god of the bible/torah/koran is a man made creation, a fairy tale to tidy up a story and explain things that were unexplainable back when science was considered witchcraft and devilry.
If it’s any consolation – as i said above – i do believe jesus was a real man – but a mortal man – a very good man
Yes – these questions you pose make me think to some degree … but the anwers to me are not found down the path you’d prefer me to go – and since i have many real world things to address, maintain and manage in the here and now, i don’t have much more than a hobbyist interest in pondering those questions since the answers to them don’t buy the puppy chow.
astro dawg
@Dawg Hmmm… aliens… So, Dawg, you agree that there’s gotta a be a source of life… an inteligent one… 🙂
You say that this supernatural being, if it exists, “it remains impotent and ignorant to the plight of many good people”. That sounds ANYTHING but the God of the Bible, Jehovah.
As for the Bible being man’s creation… Think about the laws God gave to the Jews… to bury their excrement… to wash their hands before they eat… when nobody knew anything about microbes and bacteria… Or think about these verses:
“There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth”(Isaiah 40:22)
“He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing”(Job 26:7)
So… the Bible says that the Earth is a circle, or sphere, and that it stays on nothing… How’s that advanced science for you? 🙂 And to think about it… this was written thousands of years ago… Don’t you think God would know these things?
What do you say about that, Dawg? 🙂
Don’t you think Aliens … who could travel through space to find a planet that already had life on in because of basic chemistry and a little random luck to be sure … wouldn’t have been view as supernatural gods?
And no – i do not “agree” I just think it makes more sense if it were something misconstrued by our primal ancestors as not more just intelligent mortal beings with superior knowledge and technology but they might consider them gods from the heavens.
And you might think it “sounds ANYTHING but the God of the Bible” – but not from my view shich is why i know biblegod don’t exist – because if biblegod DID exist the reality that you might choose not to see would be addressed by this god … but it hasen’t – so either your god is a failure, or he is impotent and willfully turns a blind eye to human suffering of REALLY good people while allowing evil people to prosper from their pain … of this god just doesn’t exist, which is what i know to be true since the other options are absurd
AS I stated in this post originally, everyone has a choice and neither has more than an academic effect on our realities other than altering our perspective – You’re free to believe whole heartily … i’m free to know there is no god … my main point to the original poster is that to believe and to be angry and disappointed in biblegod is very harmful to our outlook and will hinder finding a positive path in life.
You wanna believe – that’s fine – just don’t force your believes and the associated laws on me please – do that, and i’ll honor and defend your ability to believe 😉
guard dawg
@Dawg Hmmm… “because if biblegod DID exist the reality that you might choose not to see would be addressed by this god”. I’m not sure if I understand correctly (English ain’t my native language) but… I guess you say that God would do something about the people that would CHOOSE not to see… Well, you know what Jesus said? “If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.”(John 7:17) Well you see, God asks from us to sincerely WANT to do His will. The Bible is written in such a way that, the way someone responds to it’s message shows his real intentions. And… it’s a given… most people won’t listen to it’s message…
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
I’m sorry, just.me.20, but before you go claiming the Bible is some ultimate holy book, perhaps you should deal with the other things it says. The Bible is not the ultimate moral authority, it is not a supernatural book, it was made by man, for man.
@Letmesleep – more specifically it was made by man to CONTROL and SUPPRESS men
@JM20 – Sorry – that was inartfully written … My point was that there simply is a whole lot of suffering and pain of really really good people that you and i don’t see every day and are to some degree ingnorant of … yet if god did exist he would could SHOULD see than and at minimum, not leave them in a hell on earth as he did when he decided to use Job as has and the devils personal plaything.
look, i don’t need god to approve of my treating people with honor and respect. god – in my opinion (if he/she/it were to actually exist, which he/she/it does NOT) – has failed miserably at this outright – I’ll match my atheist actions against the average believer any day and i’d come out on top in terms of integrity – i’ve studied and read the bible for quite some time and although i can’t recite chapter and verse – i certainly get the gist of how we should treat others, the earth, the animals and ourselves … the majority of “believers” happily skip the lessons because the go to church and “ask forgiveness” – and then go back out and do the same thing
i desire simply to do what’s right in my heart and my conscience – if that is in line with “his will” … then it’s merely coincidence.
Now really – you’ve basically hijacked two separate threads with your “views and beliefs” which really have nothing to do with the original points of either original post and these academic theological battles offer no practical solutions to those looking for them
dawg
But let me add – the major difference between god and me is … i’m here TRYING to help some of these people who are suffering … the non-existent god doesn’t seem to have time – or just doesn’t care
@Dawg Well… You say that you’ve read and studied the Bible… Did you understand it for what it really says?…
Maybe I’ve hijacked the threads… but one was about… *cough* a suicide partner *cough*… and this one is about how Rachel lost her trust in God… So I’ve tryed to help… Don’t know how much hijacking is that… Anyways… Nice talking to ya!
@Dawg And let me add too… He promises that he cares and will help.
@JM20 – … and Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy all promise to make deliveries too 😉
Like the original poster – I once believed in all of them and god too … and then I grew up.
jingle dawg
Rachel. I know exactly how you feel. Your words so very accurately describe my life. I so want to see the God of the bible, and I once felt He was so real in my life. But for several years now all has gone terribly wrong in my life. Here’s the real crux of it… While I have asked Him to intervene and fix the wreckage that my life has become, I know He doesn’t always work in that way. The bible doesn’t teach that. God is who He is, not who we want Him to be. This being the case, my prayers have become not asking Him to fix all that’s wrong, but rather to help me to have the strength to get through it. To show His strength in my weakness. To sustain me and help me with these sorrows and burdens that are too big for me to handle. And yet I am still waiting, weakening more each day. I don’t sleep anymore, making each day just that much harder. “Where are You God?” is the question that I keep asking. All this being said, I was up all night planning today to be the day that I would end it. I just don’t want to go on. I can’t limp through another day like every day before it has been. Its morning now and I don’t know what I will do. The day is still ahead of me, I don’t know what it may bring. I know… I can feel, my end coming soon though. It’s only a matter of time (days at the most, if not today) if something doesn’t change, and His doesn’t intervene.
Please, will everyone please try and refrain from giving whatever dark testimonial about God, or how He doesn’t really exist, or anything of that nature. You are entitled to believe what you choose as am I. I’m not trying to sell anyone else on my view of God, please don’t give me yours. Let’s just agree to disagree.
Rachel, you did not mention Isaiah, and it’s good you did not, for Isaiah says:
” Verily you are a God that hides yourself, O God of Israel, the Savior. ” (Isaiah 45:15).
Indeed, the God have decided to give us free will; here on Earth, we are free to have faith or not, to believe in God or not. Without this freedom, our souls couldn’t earn the place in heaven – nor can be damned to burn in hell. Imagine for a minute the God who would answer every prayer directly and obviously, and intervene and make things right. What we people would be good (or, bad) about then?
When Bible says the door will open, when Bible says the God loves us, and so much more, – it all goes for after we die. It can’t be for during our mortal lives; only after it will be – at least that’s how i understand the Bible. For this hope of eternal salvation after death, for this ultimate meaning of everything – but not for a minute (or even, many-years) of mortal existance, Church exists.
If this is not enough for you, if you can’t take it anymore here and now, – then i can only say: God have mercy on our souls.
I have lost my faith (was orthoddox christian) at the age of ~15 years old, and for many years now, i am agnostic – i don’t know if God even exists, and without faith, i don’t believe in it anymore; if you think you have it hard, try to stay alive for decades in my state. I don’t mean no pressure; but rather, i mean that it’s possible that what you feel now is yet a tiny glimpse of what you’ll feel years ahead. Brace yourself… It’s a tough ride when one loses faith. How often, oh how often, did i wish my faith to come back. Blessed those who live and die with a strong faith. But at least, you are surely not alone. Not alone at all. Just hang on, and let some time. Two years will be enough. It should become easier in two years. Much easier. It did for me. May be it’ll do for you too.
@hurting1 – My points were never to try and convince someone to abandon their faith. I should apologize for letting myself to get baited into a futile debate that was totally off point and purpose. But it was relevant for me to at minimum, make my position on the subject known for sake of the discussion.
You see, this whole discussion is what i find troubling about some believers – while i think that i at least made an attempt to circle each of my responses back to the original post and point, my “opponent” was more concerned with “proving” me wrong.
It doesn’t matter to me if everyone is a believer and i am not – but what IS important is that you find the peace and purpose of your belief … to be angry and disappointed with god is a very bad option – this in my main and consistent point on this post.
To believe would be to accept that god has a plan for you and that plan does NOT include suicide or giving up. To believe is to accept that what we want for ourselves is not necessarily consistent with what god has intended for us – instead of wasting energy fighting god’s plan, the believer should be searching for it … to disbelieve (as i do) is to accept that god has no role in my situation and condition and therefore bears no responsibility for me to cast blame or anger on – to me, this is liberating and peace inducing to know there is no outside supernatural power influencing my choices, will and desire – i need to reconcile my wants and needs with the mortal world and the rules and laws of men, regardless of their fairness.
So i don’t know how much clearer i can explain this – either believe, love and trust in god and follow him – or not …
… but to believe in god and feel anger and disappointment and to fight his will – never ends well and is counterproductive, negative and an all around lose lose position to assume.
peacefully mortal dawg
Dawg,
I absolutely get what you are saying. I am at the point I am at because of circumstance, which that in itself is not even a good reason, but it is my reason nonetheless. Many believers would say that I never truly knew God to begin with. I beg to differ. Moses asked God kill him (Numbers ch. 11), as did Elijah (1 Kings ch. 9). Both of these men are ranked among the greatest spiritual giants in the bible. Both were absolutely on fire for God spiritually only to reach such a low point that they felt death was their only option. Both reached this point after seeing the power of God displayed before their very eyes in ways we can only imagine. I realize many do not believe the stories in the bible and that’s your prerogative. I’m simply saying this is what the bible says. Job and the prophet Jonah also hit such a low point that they asked God to kill them. I am at this point. I’m not comparing myself to these men mind you, I’m simply saying that noone would question Moses or Elijah’s walk with God, and yet they too reached so low a place in their spirit. I am likewise at a point to where I am just asking for spiritual and emotional healing. I’m not finding it and have felt so alone and in the dark for so long now I have lost all hope. I’m don’t really know how to reconcile that with my faith and understanding who God.
There is a Jewish story; a father was teaching his little son to be less afraid, to have more courage by having him jump down the stairs. He put his son on the second stair and said ‘jump, and I’ll catch you’ then on the third stair and said ‘jump, and I’ll catch you’, the little boy was afraid, but he trusted his father and did what he was told and jumped into his arms. The father put him on the next step and then the next, each time telling him ‘jump, and I’ll catch you’. Then the boy jumped from a very high step, but this time the father stepped back and the boy fell flat on his face. He picked himself up, bleeding and crying, and the father said to him, ‘that’ll teach you.'”
I think for many this is our experience of God as Father. The Church teaches us to have Faith and to leap and when we do come up with a bloody nose.
That there are times when we can trust the life will support us and times when it will not but we still have to leap.
Doubt is to Faith, as Fear is to Courage.
Faith is the paradox of certainty and doubt
Faith is not required if you are certain, Faith only requires that you act as you believe while not knowing.
The truth is we want certainty not faith. We want assurance that we will be cared for, that we are special. We want to be rewarded for our “right†behaviour and forgiven for our bad. Awaking to the fact that our experience does not match up to our expectations, our faith, is painful. This type of Faith is naive. But the rain falls on the just and the unjust all the same, the world must turn. If we are free there must be pain.
We expect the world to be either or, black and white and when it isn’t we become fearful, hurt, betrayed but the opposites are always contained within each other. This is the paradox of life!
Life and death, love and hate, hope and despair, joy and sadness… Each contains the other and can is only experienced because the other.
“Time ticks by; we grow older. Before we know it, too much time has passed and we’ve missed the chance to have had other people hurt us. To a younger me this sounded like luck; to an older me this sounds like a quiet tragedy.†― Douglas Coupland
“We’re in a free fall into future. We don’t know where we’re going. Things are changing so fast. And always when you’re going through a long tunnel, anxiety comes along. But all you have to do to transform your hell into a paradise is to turn your fall into a voluntary act. It’s a very interesting shift of perspective . . . Joyfully participate in the sorrows of the world and everything changes.” —Joseph Campbell
@Dawg If you CHOOSE not to believe… Now, that’s your choice… I thought you were interested in the discussion. Was just showing you what I know… 🙂
@hurting1 Yes, these examples show that even these men that had a great love for God… even they reached despair… Because they were just like us… humans… And from the record in the Bible we can see that God understood their despair and helped them.
@left22 I don’t know about that story but… I’m sorry if you feel that’s what happened to you too…
“Faith only requires that you act as you believe while not knowing”. 99% of religions promote ignorance. My opinion is just the oposite. Do research, convince yourself that what you believe is true. Don’t believe blindly! 🙂
“We want assurance that we will be cared for, that we are special. We want to be rewarded for our “right†behavior and forgiven for our bad.”
Exactly – but it’s beyond the reward of a thankful smile, a warm embrace or a hearty handshake that people seem to think they “deserve” … why aren’t these rewards enough? these mortal gestures should be more than enough to make us feel good about ourselves and our actions – but noooo … we just gotta have a divine blessing or it ain’t worth doing? preposterous!
Many people who’s faith wavers are waiting for some sign or gesture from god instead of looking at what is around them and being thankful for what they have because evidently it’s not enough … now don’t get me wrong – there are plenty of terrible situations out there that are dire, and people will say “oh yeah right dawg, like i should be thankful i was raped or fired or evicted etc” … and i get that those are extraordinary things to overcome – but i keep seeing people looking at the things they know for answers … like playing hide and go seek … you can’t keep looking in the same closet and expecting the other person to be suddenly hiding there the fifth time you look in it. you have GOT to look in other spots. you have to think beyond your comfort zone – THAT’s where you find god’s answers (or, if you’re atheist like me, you’ve simply thought outside the box and found an alternative solution all by yourself)
Through faith or not … you still have to think a little like McGuyver to find new and different ways to solve problems and find solutions. But shit won’t fall out of the sky and solve all your problems – I hear people all the time say “i’m trying as hard as i can” … but they’re trying to do the same things that didn’t work before simply because it worked for someone else.
Old geezer saying “work smarter, not harder”
But once you start thinking outside the box, you’re free to thank god for the unorthodox solution – or simply be proud of yourself for fining the key that unlocks the door and hopefully that opens your mind to see beyond what you think you see
either/or – not both dawg
@JM20 – I’m not really interested in what you know – any more than i’m interested in how to build my refrigerator – i just want my refrigerator to keep my beer cold – so along those lines in context here, I’m more interested in helping people find solutions
maytag repairdawg
I understand what you are saying, but I am also very grounded in the fact that I do not know, nor will I presume to think that I know what anyone else here feels. Regardless of how it may look or seek to others, perception is our reality. I am where I am and either things will work out or I will succumb to the pressure. How my faith will factor into the outcome remains to be seen.
I guess what I’m really saying is that while I don’t agree with a lot of stuff I see people saying here, I am not in whoever’s situation, and don’t know how they feel, therefore don’t wish to throw my 2 cents worth at anyone else. All my comments are meant to express where I am. Nothing more. It may be that someone else maybe in the same place and can find encouragement in seeing someone else in the same boat, as I have been encouraged in this way myself.
@just.me.20
I don’t think I know anyone who’s Faith hasn’t been tested and not come up with a bloody nose.
And I’m not sure why people think or feel it should be otherwise.
It is in our response to that experience which in the end reveals our Faith to ourselves.
If freewill is even a possibility we must be allowed responsibility!
The story exemplifies that in no way should Faith be blind, we must learn from our experience and then reconcile that with our Faith (we all, not just the religious, have faith, belief in ideals and such we cannot prove. More often than not the faith someone has is unconscious.)
Is our Father letting us fall an indication of a lack of Love or an expression of Love?
It begs the question “What is Love� What are my expectations of Love?
Most people I know would not be able to answer those questions and if they do will be surprised by their answers.
Some expect and long for unconditional love which ironically is a love that comes with the most expectations of the recipient! What they really want is a love that must never be tested so never responsible.
A love the cries out for the mother’s breasts and refuse to feed itself,
Allowing someone to fall may be the most loving gesture a person may express to another.
@hurting1
I have lost all hope. I don’t really know how to reconcile that with my faith and understanding who God is.
Hope always comes with the possibility of despair.
Within Hope our greatest desire and our greatest fear can be found. You might say that Hope also opens the door to despair so one should not enter into hope rashly.
To lose hope then might also mean to lose despair!
That you can still feel the heart break of a lost desire/hope means you still hope. Believing it lost can only keep the door open and you stuck in the threshold.
To hope well is difficult. Hope with attachment closes the eyes to possibility and opportunity and to easily turns to despair.
Letting go of a hope is painful, and requires “dying†but in the process you will learn more about yourself and more often than not that the hope you had was not clearly understood or defined.
Reconciling ones faith with ones experience is also very painful and usually requires allot of “dyingâ€.
I personally like the early Christian theologians practice of un-saying everything that they said about God. They knew that any words that attempted to define God also “undid God†as God is unknowable and no words can contain Him/Her/It (thus the requirement of faith) and that words said more about the speaker then God.
To define the numinous is to destroy the numinous
In the Jewish traditions they leave out the o in G_d and in Islam they don’t allow images to remind them of this fact and so remain humble.
Sadly these practices and reasons behind the rituals have been forgotten.
I wish you well in your journey Hurting. Metaphysical dying is hard, but as you mentioned those of the most profound and impactful Faith have passed through the darkness you now experience. (One wonders if the cry to God to die was not a metaphysical request aid in letting go, to letting die those parts of themselves that had gotten in their way of becoming.)
“My God My God why has though forsaken me  Loss it seams precedes transformation even for the numinous so the loss of hope mourned and released, might be a good thing! It might just create the space for something new!
left22; Your comments are actually pretty encouraging. Thank you. Strangely, i had something happen today (between my posts here) that borders on the realms of miraculous. While all is not well by any means at this point, what happened today gives me a brief glimmer of hope. I said in an earlier post that either God would intervene or I would succumb to the pressure and that would be that. For the moment, hope lives to fight another day.