I have wished that I didn’t exist for years now. And you know what? I may have gotten my wish. It’s looking like I have kidney disease for sure and probably also liver disease. I don’t know the details yet, waiting for more test results. It takes the burden of suicide off of me, but I’m still terrified of death and of going to hell. It will also destroy family members if I die. I wonder if I’d even have peace. Would there be nothingness? Would I still be aware and feeling? Would I still feel sad, just in another realm?
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I have often wondered how I would take it if I was diagnosed with some terminal disease. I think I would take it a lot better than most people given my state of mind and attitude towards death. Although, I think I might have some sense of existential dread. It is enlightening to hear another person’s more intimate experience with the issue.
It’s weird. I am kind of feeling numb to it at the moment. And sort of thankful. Mostly I’m worried for the pain that my family will experience and about my fear of going to hell.
I’m sorry to hear about the discomfort your situation has brought you. I hope the kidney disease and liver disease isn’t too serious, but if it is, you seem to have the strength and composure to handle it well.
We’ve been over this … there is no “hell” to go to … your molecule as simply recycled and reclaimed by the universe – nothing that you will “remember” or experience. How many billions of people have died and not one single report or clue of something after death?
That said, i’ve often wondered how i might react or act if i found out i had a serious disease or condition. Certainly now i’d have have a lot to contemplate … but i wouldn’t be so”lucky”
shlep dawg
Thank you for your kind thoughts Frumpuccino. This is new news to me so I guess I’m still kind of in shock. I can’t help also feeling guilty that I’m feeling so relieved to possibly have the easy way out that I was longing for. It sort of feels like my wishes have been granted. I feel selfish to feel that way. My poor family. I hope that my disgusting soul doesn’t suffer torment in hell for all of eternity.
I know that you believe that Dawg, but my whole life I have believed that there is a hell and a heaven, a God, an afterlife. This is why I am terrified of what fate awaits me. I really do wish it would be as you say. I wish I could make myself believe that.
I used to believe in all that too … then i actually looked at the evidence to support those “beliefs” … there’s a book … and … people who read the book and say they know what it means … that’s it for evidence. I simply stopped “believing” for the sake of belief and tradition. The world became so much more sensible when i didn’t HAVE to account for the faerie tales and magic the book posits.
You believe simply because it’s what you’ve always done without question … as i did once. Go to Youtube and search for Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris and Richad Dawkins They put forth clear concise fact based cases for how silly the “belief” in the bibleworld is.
It’s not a question of “making yourself” see the facts for what they are … you just have to put forth the effort to actually look at the facts and interpret them honestly from a position of objectivity … I mean think about this … the bible starts with god creating the world in 7 days … one either believes that outright, or one has to rationalize and/or justify how that story squares with known, provable science.
and that is just the very first story … it goes down hill from there. We all used to believe in santa claus too … but we had no problem letting go of that belief.
truth dawg
@ cagedtiger,
I know how it is, my friend. I’m losing my vision day by day because of my PDM disability, and no matter what I do. how hard I work, sometimes I feel it is all in vain, that I will end up being nothing but a blind homeless man, in the end.
Here’s my 2 cents, cagedtiger. You believe in heaven and hell, right? Your life must have had good points and bad points? It can’t have been all bad. When I worry about what happens after I die, I try my best to look for meaning in the good times. A simple smile, maybe? A reassuring nod from a friend. Something that you know existed at one point, but that no longer exists. Something that you know to have happened just because it is there in your memory. I try to look for something like that.
That being said, cagedtiger, I don’t want to preach. Often, I never find anything that means enough for me to say, “wow, that’s meaningful enough to ensure I will be saved,” or something like that. But maybe it’s worth a try?
@ Dawg
There is no need to preach to others about the philosophies that you yourself hold. Believe whatever you want to believe, and let others believe what they want to believe. I happen to have read the entire book, “God is Not Great”, by Hitchens, and regardless of whether or not I believe him, I don’t judge others for what they believe.
Beliefs are performative, which means you believe what you have been taught to believe, what helps you cope, what is embedded in your way of thought.
As for your science argument, you should read Thomas Aquinas. The priest used mathematical logic to prove the existence of God that has not been refuted to this day. And he has done so in 8 different ways.
I’m not saying that Hitchins is wrong. I’m just saying that his way of looking at things is not the only way, and that you should not tell cagedtiger to believe something she has not been trained to believe.
“As for your science argument, you should read Thomas Aquinas. The priest used mathematical logic to prove the existence of God that has not been refuted to this day. And he has done so in 8 different ways. ”
Look nothing personal but that’s retarded. That’s like saying I can prove unicorns are real by writing 2 + 2 = 4. When people ask for ‘evidence’ of god, they’re not looking for some crap written in a book by bronze age sheep-fuckers, nor a logical or mathematical argument.
They are looking for the thing itself, your god or the very least some evidence so mind-boggling that defies known physics, like making the sun disappear or something on that level, for them to accept your claim is true.
Until that happens, you god is no more real than the thousands of dead mythological gods that came before it.
“you should not tell cagedtiger to believe something she has not been trained to believe.”
So because CT was brainwashed into believing one set of myths, they shouldn’t be questioned? Don’t make barf-everyone is entitled to share their views. You can believe in whatever you want but don’t tell others they can’t express their views, but only you can hypocrite.
@ CagedTiger
“I know that you believe that Dawg, but my whole life I have believed that there is a hell and a heaven, a God, an afterlife. This is why I am terrified of what fate awaits me. I really do wish it would be as you say. I wish I could make myself believe that.”
Dawg has it right, definitely check out those brilliant people he mentioned, I’m sure you’ll enjoy their vids and they can express in more depth and eloquence the same arguments we’re making here.
Why do you believe in god, heaven, hell, etc? It’s because when you were too young to think for yourself, people who were brainwashed themselves, brainwashed you.
Our greatest tool for discovering the truth about anything in the universe is science, which was only invented in the last few centuries. So it is impossible to know anything beyond what science knows.
Anyone claiming to ‘know’ there is a hell is either a liar or mentally ill…because we’ve never been there and have never detected it. Tell me how could bronze age barbarians know more about the universe than 21st century scientists? Don’t listen to the bible-thumping morons, the truth is that they don’t know any more than you or I. They lie to people to gain power and wealth.
So whenever you pass away it will be like sleeping without dreaming, you won’t even know you existed and your body will go back to the earth and that’s it. Gods are as real as flying monkeys and pink unicorns-they are nothing more than products of our imagination.
“preaching” … that’s rich.
So then by your logic, I shouldn’t tell a person who has never experienced modern medicine about penicillin … that about right? I guess we should stop teaching children math too … i mean … they’re not “trained” for it at ALL 😛
I offer cagedtiger an option – nothing more nothing less … because currently CT’s world/spiritual view condemns him/her to eternal damnation and an epic swim in the lake of fire. I don’t threaten CT’s soul with damnation and i don’t bait him into good (or desired) behavior (behavior as dictated by scripture) with the carrot of heaven … so i’m hard pressed to consider passing on information as “preaching”
CT knows CT’s religion and faith better than you or i, so no amount of cajoling or manipulating the circumstances will change that religion’s belief that suicides go to hell. Be that as it may, that leaves only 3 options really
1. Continue that religion/faith/belief structure and either find a way to manage his/her mortal life til it’s natural conclusion or commit suicide and accept the consequences of that religion’s afterlife (although this is only realized while still alive since there is no evidence of anything after death)
2. Convert to a religious belief that conveniently has a forgiveness clause that allows suicides entry into heaven – there are 1000’s of christian denominations so i don’t know where to begin making a recommendation – i know the lutherans were pretty lax and offered everlasting life if you asked christ for forgiveness … there was no limit to the sins one could request forgiveness for … but that said there are still 4-6 different lutheran denominations so i don’t know which is which and what the rules are for each … thus i choose not to extend a recommendation on this option
3. Choose to believe there is nothing beyond this life – no god no heaven no hell no other worldly consequences for mortal actions. This one relies on reanalysis of the evidence for and against a creator/god … interestingly – Thor and zues were big bad all powerful gods in their day but christians dismiss them as non-existent in the blink of an eye … no difference with Yahweh (god) and all that that entails. Yes – I know that the existence of god cannot be proven or disproven – but having been indoctrinated in the faith similar to CT and having been a faithful believer to some degree for decades … and as the juror of MY life, the evidence – after decades of review – i have come to the conclusion that god is not the answer – at least for me and i pass this on where i think it may do some good
CT is suffering fear, terror and torment both mortally and for his perceived eternal soul … why? because god commands it … but if there is no god … there is no command to fear … is that preaching? or a plausible argument? It’s certainly a viable option to alleviate his/her suffering
Here’s An excerpt from Dawkins book “The God Delusion” that summarily destroys Aquinas
(remove the spaces)
http :// http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=hJoAAZNjWuE
I’m always amazed that the most perfect omnipotent omnipresent quintessential creator and all powerful being in the history of histories beyond history … at best can conjure up a dusty old 2000 yr old book and as “mathematical logic” proofs we’re asked to rely on Genghis Khan era logic. I wonder how Aquinas would have responded to Darwin?
non-preacher preacher dawg
Ugh – I posted a link and it got caught in moderation.
Hey SL – I saw your comment on that other post last night that got caught in moderation – i think it got nuked … but thanks for the kind words
Humble dawg
Hey Dawg,
Well I’m glad you and others were still able to read it before it was killed. It seems their decision to delete posts is pretty arbitrary and dependent on the tastes of whoever happens to be modding at the time.
You’re very welcome and it’s nice to know there’s good people with brains on this site as well.
@ Diem S. Sky, thank you for understanding my beliefs. I read your post a couple of times and I did try to spend time thinking about the good things that I’ve done in my life. Actually, still try to do now. In my “real life”, I have helped so many people even tho I’m so broke myself, I have helped with money and in other ways. That has to count for something? I haven’t been all bad, but I have done many bad things. I would be too ashamed to say those things here or to most people. Especially that some people can be very harsh and judgmental even tho most people here aren’t that way.
@ Dawg and Secondlife, I really appreciate that you are trying to show me another side and I know that your intents are only to comfort me. That is very sweet of both of you. As much as I sincerely appreciate that, I am a Christian although probably the worst one out there, but still a Christian. I feel like it’s blasphemous to say anything against the God that I believe in. I do and will always believe in The Bible. However, I also believe in science. I’m not quite sure how my two beliefs go together, but somehow I believe in both. Obviously, they contradict each other so much that I don’t have any clear ideas about what is what in this universe. I feel like there is an afterlife just because I’ve had too many weird things happen that make me feel like I’ve had proof that there is some kind of afterlife. I don’t know if you’d want to hear any of the things that have happened, I don’t want to bore anyone, but maybe I’ll make a post about those things sometime. Either way, because I do believe in God, I can’t not worry about heaven or hell and where my soul will go, if I will be tormented for all of eternity, etc.
On another note, I have huge phobias about needles, invasive medical procedures, surgeries, all that stuff. So, aside from worrying about what will happen to me when I pass, I have more immediate concerns about what will happen to me now!!! Dialysis is fucking scary to me. I’m pretty sure I’ll be facing that. It happens 3 times a week too. I don’t want to spend my last time on this earth enduring torture for a prolonged period of time on a regular basis. I know to others, needles and all that stuff isn’t a big deal. I’m someone who is put to sleep with general anesthetic just to have dental procedures carried out. Yes, the IV is horrifying to me, but it’s the lesser of two evils when I have to choose between that and the drilling/other horrors that come with dental work. I’m such a mess. Thank you for letting me vent. 🙁
Assisted suicide is something that should be readily available to people who have diseases. Nobody should have to be tortured for the remainder of their lives just because whoever says it’s morally wrong to assist someone who is facing such tortures to leave this earth peacefully and painlessly. But, then they would argue that the treatments could help. I don’t know enough about it, so I’m not sure if it would help, or if dialysis would be something I’d have to endure forever. I suppose it will depend on the level of damage that I have. I haven’t even gone for the other tests yet, even tho I was sent for them 2 weeks ago. I have to go first thing in the morning fasting, every morning I say I will go tomorrow. But I haven’t actually gone yet. So it’ll be a while until I have more answers, by the time I actually go, then there’s a waiting period for the results. I’m scared. Maybe I’m delaying getting those answers. Most people would be scared for different reasons tho. They’d be scared to hear that they will not get to live to be old. I’m not scared of that.
Not that it makes any difference, but I’m a girl btw. 🙂
Thanks CT – i appreciate that you see my intent here and don’t think i’m in any way trying to “force” you to choose anything you’re not comfortable with. I found it peculiar to be accused of “preaching” because i didn’t in any way suggest any harm or favor to persuade you in any way to adopt my particular way of thinking. Unlike real preachers who tend to threaten people with hellfire and damnation or try to beguile you with promises of eternal bliss and a gaggle of virgins (who want’s virgins anyway? i wouldn’t want to spend eternity training rookies, i’d rather have a few exceptionally talented veterans 😛 )
As I said in option 2 above – if faith is an absolute must in your life (and although i can’t buy in, i do respect that choice greatly) I strenuously suggest researching to find a church/religion that interprets the new covenant as more peace and love and forgiveness and less hellfire and brimstone … like i said – the lutheran church i used to go to rarely ever condemned anyone to hell … only people who openly defied god and reveled in their rebellion and defiance were cast down … this is NOT you – and it shows in your writing that you agonize over being committed to your faith and choosing an action that might defy it – one can be truly sorry for having to make a choice that defies their faith and still be admitted into heaven
Take Saint Peter for instance – denies Christ 3 times and STILL becomes a Saint … i’d say your situation is not even remotely as serious as denying Christ so I think it safe that you’d warrant similar forgiveness … don’t hold your breath or push your luck for sainthood though 😛
Your statement: “Assisted suicide … Nobody should have to be tortured for the remainder of their lives just because whoever says it’s morally wrong to assist someone who is facing such tortures to leave this earth peacefully and painlessly.”
the “Whoever” you speak of is again – religion – that has set this standard – it seems the religions on the whole have adopted a position to maximize mortal suffering which is convenient to maintain tithes and taxes for as long as possible.
If it makes you feel any better – i too require anesthetic for dental work – i’m a huge ***** like that 😛
And sure – this place is a place to share and air thoughts, so if you feel like discussing the things that give you faith in an afterlife – you’re free to do so, i can promise, the discussion will be anything but boring 😉
As an aside – don’t you find it the least bit curious that if you were born in the far east china, japan etc that your “one true god” would be Buddha? or in the middle east your god would be Allah? India you’d be Hindu … when we think of the “one true god” it seems that he/she/it would have a better plan for his followers that pure chance of where they’re born? If there is only one god … then there are huge swaths of humanity that are simply wrong and doomed … but yet billions claim a totally different god(s) … so either god is exceptionally cruel to arbitrarily sentence billions of geographically unfortunate children to certain damnation or there is more than one god floating around … or there never was any god at all – ever – because it would seem to me if there was one god – there should be broad consensus … just a point to ponder … but what do i know 😛
most interesting dawg in the world dawg
Like the legend of the phoenix All ends with beginnings What keeps the planet spinning The force from the beginning We’ve come too far So let’s raise the bar And our cups to the stars.
In Greek mythology the phoenix is cyclically regenerated or reborn. The phoenix rises from the ashes of its former self and obtains new life. The phoenix was adopted in early Christianity as a symbol and is referenced in modern day culture.
Angular momentum is what keeps objects spinning it’s deeper than that. Aristotle in his Prime mover theory, contained in Metaphysics said that in the beginning there was this entity called the unmoved mover that made the first move and caused a series of events that resulted in our Universe.
The present has no ribbon Your gift keeps on giving What is this I’m feeling? If you want to leave I’m with it…..