I speak to you as a victim of suicide. My mother and an uncle committed suicide.
There are many theories of death, but I will give you the most likely: It’s nothingness. Unconsciousness, as we know it, is that space between falling asleep and waking up. It’s what happens when you undergo surgery, or pass out. For a suicider, this is the most likely positive outcome. The suicider wants an end to the distress, and this appears to fit the bill.
But what if suicide carries with it consequences that are potentially worse? When the suicider makes the choice to squander the life given to him or her, who knows whether there will be a penalty for that choice? For the sake of argument, we’ll assume that death – even if by choice of a suicider – results in the same blackness that any other form of unconsciousness brings.
One final note on the result of the commission of suicide: We humans have a certain sense of arrogance that is, well, uniquely human. We feel like we’re entitled to more than we actually are. Victorian era beliefs, some based on religion and many couched in the arrogant idea of supremacy (the “unsinkable” Titanic, for example) lent themselves towards the unrealistic expectation of eternal life after death. Humans, the superior species! They shall always live, even after death. Ya, right.
Suiciders have certain identifiable, uniquely human characteristics. They represent the most human of all humans. First and foremost, they are always selfish and self-absorbed. The galaxy that a suicider lives in is composed of planets and suns that revolve around the suicider. Who happens to exist in those other planets are irrelevant to the suicider. The suicider’s life and well being are always of paramount concern to the suicider.
Accordingly, the suicider cares little for others, or others’ welfare. The suicider is often needy and self-focused, and will manipulate others to obtain gratification and satisfy their own ends. The suicider thrives on attention, but, paradoxically, appears to outwardly shun it. The suicider most often fits the criteria for clinical depression but will often not seek treatment for it, owing to his or her own narcissist visions of him or herself.
If you’re a suicider-in-the-making, consider the consequences of your choice, OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF. I know, it’s hard to consider other people, especially when you’re wrapped up in yourself. If you don’t think anyone will be affected by your choice, consider the possibilities of your “final act” on yourself. You don’t know for sure what they will be, and you certainly cannot be guaranteed the peace you’re seeking. You also cannot go back and put the plan into reverse, because this is the only life any of of us have been given.
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My mother committed suicide, too. I don’t consider myself victimized by it. Is it painful? Oh yes! Do I wish she hadn’t of done it? Of course. Has it increased the likelihood that I will commit suicide too? Certainly.
I still believe it was her decision to make.
I reject your suppositions that certain postmortem outcomes are “most likely” and suicide is “squandering” a life. I vehemently reject your belief that people who commit suicide are “always selfish and self-absorbed” and every judgemental term you use thereafter!
People decide to kill themselves for a variety of bad reasons, good reasons, and everything in between. I feel your sweeping negative generalizations aren’t helpful in fostering an open, honest, and thoughtful dialog about suicide.
I understand you find people who commit suicide to be flawed and misguided. It’s valid for you to have those feelings and I encourage you to share your personal experiences with the SP community.
If you truly believe we’re “always selfish and self-absorbed”, and that we cant think of anyone other than ourselves, then why bother posting all those words here? Since “always” is an absolute, if those are your beliefs, what do you hope to accomplish or change by saying those things? If you’ve come here to hate on us, that wont last long. there are rules about that. Props for fucking with the bee’s best anyway. Here’s an idea though: instead of kicking people when they’re down, try being kind, positive, and encouraging to them instead. They’re a hell of a lot more likely to cheer up than if you were belligerent and accusatory. Just saying.
*bee’s nest, not best
I too vehemently and categorically reject your views on that suicide people are self absorbed and selfish. There’s a pain in them that says “When”….that its too hard to carry on.
I know, it’s hard to consider other people, especially when you’re wrapped up in yourself. But try to consider how you’re making everyone else who sees this post feel. You’re not helping. At all. Some people might see this and think “I really AM selfish! I’m such a horrible person. Everything is my fault.” And then kill themselves because feel so guilty and ashamed. Posts like the one you just made can cause domino-effect negative-thinking in some of us, and that doesnt prevent anything! You have a right to be upset about what happened to your loved ones, and i sincerely hope you feel better. But we have nothing to do with that. Every case is different. Just PLEASE be careful next time you post.
Your premise is based on what you think a suicidal person is thinking. You may (or may not) be suicidal yourself, but that doesn’t mean that ALL suicidal people think the same way. Even if your rationale is correct, it’s pointless to attempt to speak for potential suiciders. So, unless you have anything helpful to offer, I would suggest you consider not offering anything more.
Dude…do you even realize what this site is? Yes, I’m speaking from the premise of a suicidal thinker, and yes, I have some suicidal ideologies. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to do anything. I never claimed everyone thinks the way I do, hence the phrase “Some People”. Emphasis on the SOME (as in not ALL). I come here to vent my shit because I keep it all inside. It makes people feel bad if I just blurt everything out in public. I come here to say what’s helpful for myself, so that I can stay alive. Sometimes, i have nothing to say, and i read what everyone else says because its validating to know you aren’t alone. I’m making tremendous efforts to stay here, because I know EXACTLY how other people would feel about that. I’ve had loved ones die by suicide myself! So, Fuck you and your ignorance! Why not take your own advice and only offer something when it’s helpful.
@zigzag, When I read the phase: “It makes people feel bad if I just blurt everything out in public.” I imagined myself out on some busy intersection with a sandwich boards stating “my end is near….”. No idea why that popped in my head.
I recognize the effort for you to stay here. Please stay alive.
@Sunflower thank you. What I meant by that phrase is that people are psycho-social–people feel sad around sad people. So I don’t say anything to anyone. Funny imagery, sandwich boards lol as for staying alive, I’m doing my absolute best.
Well I’ll wear a sandwich board for us all tonight. I’m feeling rather human tonight.
It’s perplexing to me why this most selfish of actions is excused by people like you. Why would you deny the undeniable? If a suicider is not selfish – who is?
The suiciders’ final act is seldom examined on the consequences of it. Why? And, yes, we ARE permitted to judge them on the basis of their actions. Suiciders are NOT entitled to a “carte blanch” simply on account of the fact that they are not here to answer to their actions. Their act DOES have, in most cases, a very significant impact on the survivors they leave behind and frankly, I resent your attempts to excuse this away or otherwise justify it. Assuming that we agree that we have just one life, suicide absolutely DOES amount to squandering that life.
I wonder how much actual thought went in to posting this response. It seems you’re just the regurgitating the politically correct garbage people seem obliged to say when someone makes the choice to commit suicide.
I haven’t written here in a while because I’m better, but this bullshit requires a response.
You want to know who’s selfish? You are! The people here are suffering and you offer nothing to them. Chances are that most of the people here already feel guilty about wanting to die, but see no other way to escape their suffering. They have considered what effect their suicide will have on the people around them. You are only thinking about how this will affect yourself. The suvivors obviously aren’t capable of helping the suicider, so they are just as guilty of his death, so they’d better shut up. This selfish thinking of others is what drives you to suicide in the first place.
If you’re not capable of showing empathy to your fellow human beings who suffer the most, you are a shitty person.
Can you help suicidal people? Sure. But you help them by showing empathy and not by telling them that they are selfish. Not allowing suffering people to die, but not helping them at the same time, is much more selfish than killing oneself.
And who are you to speak for the Universe? Maybe the universe wants us all to die because we’re like cancer to it. You have no way of knowing what’s right or wrong so don’t tell others.
OK, I think this one is mine. 🙂
A) Perplexed by people like me – You are probably confused because my refutation had no supporting arguments. It wasn’t meant to. I disagree with you. Full stop. I don’t think your language is helpful in promoting a discussion. Full stop. My opinion. My viewpoint.
B) Selfishness – Everybody is selfish. I don’t think it is possible to have an empirical test that can measure selfishness. I can propose thought experiments all day long that make a hypothetical callow, dastardly non-suicidal person appear to be more selfish than a noble, altruistic self-extinguishing person. Far fetched? You betcha. My issue is with your generalizations and labels.
C) Judge Dredd – I believe you have conflated “judging” and “judgemental language”. Judge all you want. I prefer to go light in that area because people tend to clam up when you hit them with harsh realities. Judgmental language employs insultive, compromising or pejorative language to influence an argument. I felt like you chose words to make suicidal people seem morally bankrupt and spiritually corrupt.
D) The rest – Resent all you want. If you are truly trying to be persuasive, resentfulness is going to be a big stumbling block. I strongly suggest you let go of it.
I spent about 45 minutes on my response. I promise I’ll work harder next time. 😉
The trouble with “squander”, for me at least, is you’re assigning a value to something that can’t be measured. If you insist the value of a life can be measured then I will maintain you are a closeted spiritualist.
Now this last one I’m kinda confused on. I think the politically correct garbage to regurgitate about suicidal people would be that they are horribly mentally ill people that need to be stopped at all costs before they destroy the moral fabric of America. I don’t think I was saying that.
E) Things not said – Some people, well, let’s be honest, many people commit suicide because they are mentally ill. Is that selfish? Are they being manipulative? …Insert other rhetorical questions here… How much, or little, mental illness are people allowed to have before they are, or are not, judged to be selfish dirt bags? Be sure to show all your work.
Odyssey, are you here because you want to harm yourself or because you need to come to terms with the people in your life that took their own lives? Just curious.
Hazy Day Sunflower,
Do you really think I am here because I want to harm myself? Nice try.
Given the fact that I have already said that my mother committed suicide, you know all you need to know about why I am here.
I am not the type of individual to make assumptions, which is why I asked. I would never assume to know the reasons why you are here or the pain you may be in. Here is a simple question, if you are not here because you want to harm yourself that what will be accomplished by posting this? I agree that you are allowed your opinion on this topic, and I don’t like people on the site telling others they can’t or shouldn’t post their heart felt opinions here. That just smacks of closed mindedness.
However I would like to ask, with the most heart felt respect, what you wish to accomplish by posting things like this? Is it you hope some of us will see your words and think twice about what they are trying to do? Or is it that you want to punish the people here for what has happened in your life?
If you want to be happy you have to forgive your mother, not go around pointing fingers and judging people. Forgiveness is the only way you can heal.
Going around judging people is worse than suicide.
@held, that didn’t even occur to me when I read this post and thread. That is extremely insightful.
1) Please no ad hominem grumpiness folks. (Not pointing fingers, um, yet, at anyone.)
2) I hate that I can’t figure out who is addressing whom.
I’m addressing Odyssey! And for all I care I can get the Ban-Hammer at this point! All of my comments, besides this one, is towards him! Ad hominem and all.
I don’t think anyone typed anything here that was ban worthy ZigZag, at least I hope not. It is just a very emotional topic for all involved.
If I added more shrimp to the pasta do you think that would get me banned? Maybe the OP should hop on board Jesus’ spaceship and chill out with some weed brownies.
@Neph, more shrimp absolutely not, less shrimp though? Most definitely.
I’m just saying that I personally am willing to get banned for this. I am horribly, vehemently offended! I am sorry if it’s too much. I’m very very emotional right now.
I don’t see why you can’t just open up a can of whoopass. I’m listening. I know I’ve been offended by some things here in the past and just squatted and took a giant dump on the post. I haven’t been banned yet, however I haven’t checked my email tonight, or this week now that I think of it…I should go do that.
@seesmith, i’m unsure if this is ad hominem. I have some other terms that may describe it better.
@seesmith: the other term I was thinking was troll.
Hazy Day Sunflower,
I appreciate your question and will do my best to answer it.
I have had plenty of time to consider the consequences of my mother’s final act over the past 38 years. I think I have come to a point where I have finally put it into some sort of perspective. And, that perspective has not placed her in a very favorable light.
My story is not unique. ANYONE who does this is leaving behind someone. In this case, she left two children, ages six and ten. It profoundly interrupted our upbringing. My sister and I were, up until that day, two relatively happy, normal children. All that changed, of course, with the suicide. It was extremely difficult for us to go through school and the requisite parts of growing up, not only with the fact that we had to do it with just one parent, but also with the rather bizarre spectacle of a parent who died by suicide. There were no other kids who could relate to this. We were on our own. Over time, we both formed our own coping mechanisms. One of mine is that I disagree with the portrayal of suiciders as “victims.” These people are not victims. They are victimizers. And they leave lots of victims behind.
I know that the ones here contemplating suicide are not going to receive the wake-up call that I have for them well. They will resist it, and continue to persist in their sob stories of how they have been beaten down by life in the various ways they feel they have been. At least one has already resorted to a profanity-laced tirade here. They won’t, not even for an instant, acknowledge any awareness of the selfish aspects of what they are considering, because that would, of course, diminish the merits of their case in favor of “checking out.” Nobody likes to be reminded of the errors of their ways, including me. But, that doesn’t mean that it’s wrong to remind them – and I don’t think I am wrong for doing that.
Your mother must have committed suicide because she was mentally ill, or was being abused, or something similar. People who are mentally stable/in a safe living environment do not kill themselves when they have children. Depression is a verifiable illness that effects a person’s quality of life. If you’ve never been depressed you can’t hope to understand the suicidal mindset.
Your answer is very heartfelt. I watched my cousin struggle in similar circumstances. However, you still have not answered my question.
are you doing this, posting what you obviously know are words that in all likelihood will injure people who you don’t even know, because you think it might do them some good or because you just need to do this to make yourself feel better. sort of like bullying?
Speaking of tirades…
@Ody And why don’t just address me personally instead of saying “they” This and that?
@Ody the one who needs a wake-up call is you!
Yes. Suicide is the most selfish of all acts because it means a person is taking away the most previous life bestowed unto them by the almighty Lord above who is all good, all powerful, and who knows where to find all the best shrimp pasta joints in his magnificent GPS of eternity. Amen.
Hazy Day Sunflower,
I do not know that anything I have posted here will harm anyone. I would never knowingly do that. I do think that people need to to start addressing this issue honestly, however. To that end, it’s essential that certain facets of the “suicidal ideology” be made clear: 1) it’s NOT a victimless act 2) it is an act that is (generally – to the exclusion of those who are terminally ill, for example) profoundly selfish and angry 3) it does squander the one life which we (again, generally) recognize is the only one we’ll have.
Why is an honest discourse of this so out of line? If you commit suicide – you’re done. You’re no longer relevant in the overall scheme of things. You no longer matter. What DOES matter, however, are the ones left behind. So… I hope this answers your question.
Nope it didn’t.
@od: you see you state you would not knowingly post anything that would hurt the individuals here yet we have several individuals that claim you are harming them by doing this. And his is not your first time posting these sorts of messages nor is it the first time you have heard this from the members here. So your argument is not valid.
@odyssey Everyone dies. It hurts when those we care about pass away, sure, but it’s an inevitability. If one has people in their life who care (not everyone does), then they’ll be sad no matter *when* they die. I had a family member choose suicide as well and although it was heartbreaking to hear about, I respected their choice. They were mentally unwell and unstable, and they couldn’t see anything worth living for. Why should someone be forced to live for years/decades in pain, loneliness, and misery if they truly think that life won’t improve for them?
Again, you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been there yourself.
This is why I never tell anyone about my suicidal thoughts. This is why people find it hard to seek help publicly. Because of people like you.
I came onto this site to find help from people who in a way know what Im going through. FYI, Im already starting to feel better and am getting my shit together.
I wouldnt be trying to get some form of help if I didnt know the impact my suicide would have on my loved ones. So, who the fuck do you think you?!
Have you tried to talk to professionals about your thoughts? I don’t know how it is in your country, but I was really surprised how understanding and helpful the psychologists and psychiatrists were that I talked to in Germany.
Im seeing a Dr for depression and PTSD. Its helping, but to some extent I feel even she doesnt really understand. Talking to people going through similar situations is helpful.
@Ylem: have your considered a PTSD help group? You have been through some serious trauma.
Exactly! I feel the same way! It’s people like the OP who makes it hard to get help
The OP isn’t even considering the many souls out there who feel as though they are completely alone and have no support, no loved ones and no one who cares about them. If they die, their deaths may not affect anyone.
@Neph: No the OP is either extremely angry, or a troll. I can’t decide which.
Hazy Day Sunflower:
What argument is not valid?
I told you that I knew some of the people here would not appreciate being told that suicide is selfish and they are not appreciating it. Does that amount to “harming” them, though?
If you cannot even agree with even the most rudimentary aspect of suicide – that it is first and foremost the most selfish of acts – than we should just end it there because there is no hope for any consensus if you won’t concede that much.
Thank you though for your responses.
I didn’t agree or disagree with your argument. As far as I’m concerned the jury will eternally be out on that ruling.
My point was that you stated you would never _intentionally_ hurt the people here, yet here you are intentionally hurting the people here under the guise of informing them that their actions you both do not agree with and feel are selfish. As I previously asked: have you examined your own motives for doing this? Is it for them or for you? I suspect this meets a deep seated need to injure the people here due to unresolved issues with the people who left you early in life.
I don’t see the logic in your actions.
Hazy Day Sunflower,
I like that name by the way.
This is an open forum. I would hope that the folks here realize that that anyone can post here. And I am by no means menacing or taunting people here.
Again, I know that people won’t like to be reminded of what suicide is: The most selfish of all acts. Before I started to respond your last message, I scrolled up to see if you had refuted this, and not surprisingly, you did not. Instead you questioned my motives, why I was here, etc – but that’s okay, because it’s an open forum and it is your right to raise those questions.
Who better than the son of a suicider to comment on the consequences of suicide? I can only think of one other person – my sister. But, she’s not here. I hope each of you finds that inner peace that has thus far eluded you. It’s never too late unless you make it so.
So you’re completely disregarding the veracity of mental illnesses. Bravo. *claps*
I’d like to petition the complete removal of this post, on the grounds that it breaks the “no hate” rule. If you click the link under the rules (where it says no methods, no parteners, no hate) it states that this isn’t a place for spouting hate or creating drama with the other members. I think we can all agree that drama has been made, and that certain lines have been crossed–to the point where people are getting hurt. If you agree, or if you know how to contact the admins about this, please reply. Thank you
Click ‘report this post’ at the bottom of the post.
Awesome! Thank you nepheliad!
@zig, neph,ylem,held,clar,see and ody. I need to bow out of this because I’m falling asleep. Do what you will, Odyssey continue to post these things with absolutely no insight to why you truly do this and everyone else feel free to report the post. I’m going to bed. I really do love all of you so much. Stay safe.
Wooooowwwww. I’m just gonna say I think OP needs more therapy than any of us. We may be suicidal but at least we have a heart and most on here are kind and caring in their real lives and here.
@Abiss: night abiss. Stay safe.
@Hazy: still considering it. Not sure Im a group person. It’ll probably add more to the anxiety.
I don’t think anybody here needs more or less therapy than anybody else.
Our side of the argument is better looking. Our children are genetically superior. Our cats have the cleanest assholes on the planet. Who is in our side at the moment I have no fucking clue.
I don’t think it is possible for odyssey to hurt anyone here with his or her ideas. Or maybe I’m the only invulnerable one here. … No Hazy is bulletproof…
Odessey is not a goddamned troll!!! I didn’t like much of anything he had to say. But his post was hilarious. Hey I wish Rocketman could be here.
Give a hoot. Don’t pollute.
I’d like to point out that I was being sarcastic with my comment about suicide being selfish, if no one got that. (I’m a staunch atheist/agnostic.)
The shrimp part totally clued me in. Although I would counter that shrimp is a very important aspect of daily life, chips, stirfry, paste. very important.
@seesmith: I disagree. There are many here that this post will harm. The rules state clearly no hate, no p@rtners, no m3thods. Even if the OP thinks he is doing this for the good of the group it does not follow that the end result has achieved this. I agree with all the PP’s that is a hateful thread. If even one of our members feels unsafe here I think we all should feel unsafe here.
It starts with me SeeSmith. If not who than me? See I understand that this post was hilarious for you. It really challenged my ability to debate in a way that was not ad hominem, I’m really rusty and it was really enjoyable, however, and this is a colossal however, I can’t lose sight of the fact there are individuals on this site that are just plain raw. Many of whom are 14 or 15 and look to us, the adults, for guidance on how to navigate this awful feeling we all have. I just can’t lose sight of that.
The slippery slope is stating “it’s his or her opinion, they are entitled to it”. However I beg to differ, the only one who is fit to judge if an opinion is appropriate is the admin and owner of the forum. This is not a democracy, and although I would love to debate with odyssey all night long, because his arguments are paper thin and he talks around the answer, I don’t think my enjoyment of a really good healthy debate should come at the expense of the individuals like Ylem31 who might not engage here any longer. People who have the kinds of things going on in their lives that I, in my worst nightmare, wouldn’t conjure up. People who desperately need a safe place to work through this, people like princessxxx, who just might live to see next year because of the non judgemental support we all gave her, despite my or your personal opinions regarding the path she is trying to choose.
I just cannot lose site that this starts with me. Taking a stand against what we are kinda sure isn’t hateful but because the argument is so well stated and there isn’t any obvious hatred, and by golly he is stating he is doing it out of true affection for all the injured souls on here, well we are going to let this continue. This isn’t his first post like this one. However it is up to the admin to decide if it is his last. We can report him, we can ignore him, but by golly we should stop encouraging him, which is what we are doing by even addressing these kinds of posts.
If someone stood up and convinced others that it starts with them too maybe there would be a lot more Jews alive in the world today, or less dead Chinese citizens from the Cultural Revolution, or maybe there would be a hell of a lot more Cambodians alive to enjoy Chinese New Year’s this year. This slippery slope us humans ride down, it’s so slow and safe and comfortable. But it stops with me, one woman in this life that by golly isn’t going to let her children or anyone I live, know or love, with slide down the slope. It starts with one. With me.
As for me being bullet proof. Oh seesmith I beg to differ. I am riddled with bullet holes. I am weak in a kind of way that totally disgusts me daily. I allow myself to live with a man who does not hold my values, and that is the worst kind of sin I can commit in this world. It is the kind of sin I live with daily. He is cruel and a bigot, small minded under the guise of being well written. He is the kind of individual that takes my hand and brings me slowly down that awful slope that robs me of my humanity.
I write well, online I can be the kind of person I wish I could achieve IRL, but IRL I am a coward and stay in this situation because it is easy. Blowing my brains out is easy. Being brave and doing the right thing, leaving this situation, that it true strength, which my friend I absolutely do not have. I would rather just kill myself then face that kind of change, at least this morning, at least this year maybe. That my friend is true cowardice.
I hear you. I understand your point. Debating Od was only fun for half an hour and I have no interest in fanning a perpetual flame war. Yes, as adults we have a responsibility to encourage the greatest good for the mostest.
That being said
1) I still don’t thing doggedly and emotionally saying suicide is selfish is hate speech.
2) I don’t think Od was intentionally manufacturing drama. (But I was by choosing to treat it as a debate.)
3) Od is a survivor of suicide. We also have a responsibility to him. I also think it’s important that those that are considering suicide are exposed to the thoughts and feelings of the survivors. We get far too few of those stories around here.
Maybe I’m way off base here. You see an anti-suicide rant. I see a son processing his mother’s suicide. Yes, it’s 100% subtext. Speaking as a pragmatist I did notice how everyone was outraged or was pretending to be outraged by the post. Too bad we can’t have a “you must be this tall to read this post” sign.
4) Bulletproof – Sometimes people say short, nice, offhand, exaggerated comments to each other. They are know as compliments and are often a roundabout way of expressing respect.
I’m sorry you don’t like your roommate. I’m sorry you think that the values of a white supremacist banker vinyl collector reflects on you. I really don’t know about that. I just know you have a great sense of narrative and I like to read your long form work.
Hugs, sweet one.
@seesmith: Very well stated. Like how you describe my *roommate* LOL. You are absolutely correct, the viewpoint of those affected by suicide are just as important as the views of those struggling. We do get a lot of that around here. I am thinking a lot of us have been affected by suicide. My aunt and cousin for example. I can’t let this go this morning, and I think that is on me. I felt so very protective of all the people on here last night and the thought of even one person leaving was destroying me. Maybe I just need to take a break for a while and watercolor.
That post was not funny. SeeSmith, you should try being a little more sensitive. I am extremely disappointed in you. I thought you were an okay person, prior to seeing this. But your words are just insensitive. Shame on you. This isn’t a hangout spot or a chatroom, although you seem to treat it like one. It’s true that having normal conversations on here helps suicidal people, but if you’re going to turn everything into some sort of joke, I really don’t think you have any business here.
@OP. I get what you want to say. You’ve said it. You’ve made your point, and you see clearly that it hasn’t helped anyone. Not even one person. You think you’re giving us ‘tough love’? You know what tough love is? It’s abuse. It’s the dad that whips his child with a belt. The drunken mother that pushes her 11 year old kid on a burning stove. That’s tough love. It’s not helpful.
There’s no more reason for you to be on this site. Get off. You need to be banned. I at least do not want people like you here. And it seems a lot of people agree with me.
I don’t particularly want to reply to this post. I just want to say: I don’t always think humour is used in appropriate places on this site, but I also believe it has a place here. There are always going to be mixed responses to a post like this one. Passing judgment on an individual person seems insensitive to me. I’ve done it before and I know it’s easy to sound more critical or unkind than intended when you’re angry. But it’s also easy to start arguments and hurt people in various ways. As one of the more vulnerable people here at this moment, it’s difficult to read comments like this whoever they’re directed at.
@trix: as one of the individuals that perpetuated this last night, I’m sorry Trix.
I apologize to everyone except the OP, if my anger is visible in my words. So, the OP thinks suicide is selfish… I agree since this world is based on selfishness. Throughout history, countries evolved by using others through force, manipulation or creative thinking. This world is based on suffering which means there will be those that are triumphant and those that are defeated by life. Is it wrong for people to want to quit this unfair game called life? If this world was fair than it would be. However, this world isn’t fair. A person can have everything but there is no guarantee they’ll be happy. Be it biological or situational, life is going to drop suddenly and only the strongest person can hold on.
Besides the greatest act of selfishness is what the OP is doing. The OP is metaphorically shoving us off a cliff and doesn’t even give a damn. The OP is mad at suicidal people just because his mother was suicidal… OP, do you resent your mother for committing suicide? If so, I feel sorry for the OP’s mother for having such a child… To quote Yoshimura from blah, “…The act of taking is equally evil. We, from the moment of birth, continue to take. Food, connections, even fellow blood. Living to utmost. Continuing to slaughter, kill, take. Life is to constantly sin. Life is evil itself. I am aware I am evil… And so are you all.” If taking freedom is evil then the OP’s mother is evil. However, the OP is much more evil than their mother for hating people like her. OP, a falling bird with broken wings and no support will always fall… The question you need to ask yourself is if you are really happy hating that falling bird, OP. Especially when the process of standing is a difficult battle for such a broken bird.
@zetsumei: you stated this so much better than I did. Thank you. This was positively eluquent.
*eloquent. However spelling that word wrong was not.
So well written
Wow Zetsumei…I just read your post. So amazingly well written. Good job my friend.
Nobody asked to be born
We deserve the right to die, as we did not ask to be born..we had NO say in being born. We were born and put into this world…
Nobody asked to be born <- nobody says that this is selfish
Trolololol has zero empathy sorry your mother had you
First of all, I’m sorry you lost your mother and your uncle. Losing loved ones is never easy, no matter how we lose them.
Now. What did you do to help them when they were alive? Were you supportive? Did you make sure they knew that, while you couldn’t necessarily understand the pain they were in, you would be there for them to the best of your ability? I’m seeing a person who is hurting, angry, and who is feeling guilty. And instead of turning that guilt into something productive, you’re lashing out at the people who least deserve that anger. I understand needing to vent. But please consider where your anger is truly directed.
Odyssey, are you trying to tell us that it is more selfish for one to suicide, than it is for someone else to not want you to suicide on the grounds that they will experience pain or that it would negatively impact THEM in another way?
Three years ago, my uncle committed suicide.
14 years ago, one of my best childhood friends committed suicide.
Not once have I ever had the audacity to call either of them selfish.
They was in more pain than he could cope with, the depression is what killed them. Depression, the invisible illness, the invisible disease that so often can be just as eluding and evasive, just as recurring, as any physical body disease you can name off the top of your head.
Being left by someone who killed themselves, it hurts. A lot.
Years later, I still burst into tears for three or more hours when I randomly think of them.
Years later my heart still aches as if someone is ripping it out, because I miss them, because I wish I could have done more.
I suggest that instead of childishly lashing out at others in anger, because you feel abandoned by your mother; instead of resorting to lashing out when you can no longer blame yourself for your mother’s actions, instead of using hurting other humans as YOUR coping method, spend some time enlightening yourself more about suicide, how to heal from suicide, how to get your life back to where you can take a deep breath in the morning and be ok with life.
Spend some time getting the word out there that SUICIDE DOES KILL. Spend time teaching others through your experience in a way that will prevent future suicides, that will spare other people from feeling that despair, instead of thoughtlessly making posts like these.
I realize you are hurt, and angry that she chose to end her pain instead of enduring through absolute hell just to make YOU feel better, but here’s the thing.
You have two options now.
You can either let this define you, let it pull you down, let yourself prove to the world that this painful thing defined YOU, or… YOU can define IT.
I won’t say the path is easy, cause it’s not. It really. Fucking. Isn’t. Dealing with those abandonment issues that pop up, dealing with the pain. It sucks.
What I will say? Is that the pain gets easier to bear. You’ll be less angry, you’ll be more satisfied with your life, you’ll be a BETTER PERSON. You’ll finally be able to feel like you can breathe again. You’ll finally be able to let go and move on, instead of clinging to the past like a plant with terrible thorns. Healing from pain is the first step to making peace within yourself. The first step to healing, is often education.
The pain never goes away 100%, but it gets to the point that you’ll no longer need to login to sites meant to be a coping method just to tear total strangers down to appease yourself like some sort of desperate drug. It’s a much more holistic approach.
I am terribly sorry for your loss, it sucks, God does it suck more than anything to lose someone you love, or once loved, to the grips of depression, or mental illnesses. It makes you wanna tear your heart out, it makes you doubt yourself, it makes you yourself face the jaws of depression. It sucks. To lose somebody. No matter who, ESPECIALLY a family member, especially one who we lead our whole lives thinking is supposed to protect US.
But that is NOT an excuse to display such terrible behavior to other human beings whom you have never met before; rather, it is an OBLIGATION to rise like a phoenix above this adversity & to spread education , awareness, & healing. Nightmares happening to you is not an excuse to drag others down too, it’s an obligation to try and spread sweet dreams in their stead.
This was a prime opportunity for you to speak about your experience about how it hurts like HELL to be left behind, a prime opportunity for you to PREVENT FUTURE SUICIDES, to PREVENT AND HEAL PAIN.
This was a prime opportunity that you refused to take simply because you hold onto bitterness and resentment.
I challenge you, to do some personal growth. I challenge you to enlighten yourself. Broaden your perspectives, open your mind. I challenge you to LEARN. Google is a glorious tool for our advantage.
Google “Why holding onto resentment is bad”, Google “How to overcome the grief of loss”, Google “how to heal”, there are a million resources at your fingertips. Literally. And you chose to use it for evil rather than good.
A personal site that I feel helped me immensely when my Uncle passed, was suicide.org and I am sure there are support groups for suicide survivors left behind in your area. If you’re religious, seek out a trusted religious supervisor. Confiding in a friend can be dangerous, as their vision may be biased. What you want is to find someone to heal your wounds that got left behind, who will open your perspectives, not someone who will close your mind even further and make you colder.
But by no means… By NO MEANS, permit yourself to sink to such ugly levels as to haughtily log into a site meant to help sufferers COPE and leave such foul messages.
Your mother loved you. She wouldn’t have stuck around so God damned long enduring excruciating pain unless she didn’t. She was fighting a brutal war, and she lost. But she died trying. How do I know? Because she survived that war long enough to give birth to you. She fought tooth and nail as long as she could considering how long of your life she was around. Or would you also blame her if she lost the battle to cancer instead of depression?
She wouldn’t want you to spread hate. And if that isn’t enough to motivate you…? I, a fellow survivor who lost someone, someone who knows EXACTLY what you’re going through, I do not want you to spread hate.
You have the ability to touch lives with your story, are you really going to show the world weakness by submitting?
Or are you gonna stand up and make a difference in the world?
A difference in real human lives! Just because these people aren’t someone you bumped into at a supermarket does NOT mean that they do not feel in reaction to you. Just because it’s over the internet does not mean you can say whatever you please without any slack. What you speak about others, speaks more of YOUR character than it does of THEIRS. And you my good sir, spew a lot of hatred. That lets me know more about you, than your mother.
Don’t act so haughty if you’re gonna parade around spreading pain. Rise above it, rise like the phoenix does after it burns to ashes.
I know you can do it. I have faith in you. You’re still alive and fighting today right?
You’re expressing yourself in the wrong manner.
Choose to heal, rather than inflicting pain on others just to satiate yourself. Because I assure you it is a HOLLOW victory. It’s naught much different from those who satiate their pain via drugs or alcohol. They use a medium to express their pain, and so do you. Only them? They chose the high road of enduring the pain solely by themselves, instead of having to resort to tearing down strangers just to make themselves feel better.
For those of you who are reading this, whom suffer from suicidal feelings, I implore you. I beg of you.
Don’t give up. It’s not my choice to order you to suffer more, I can honestly say I’m sure you’re all going through more pain than you dare to speak of, and that I am not able to live your life for even a day, but I will say one thing.
I don’t want any of you to die… If you could possibly help it, please…
I would be very sad, that the world would have to lose a precious soul, and I’m so terribly sorry that the world has hurt you so badly.
You did not deserve that pain, no one does. I promise you on my life that you deserve good things.
A resource I used, back when I was struggling myself, please see if any places you live have a facility called Vocational Rehabilitation, Psychotherapy works wonders, it did for me, and albeit the scary name, all it really is, is talking out your feelings with a trusted professional.
To those whom cannot afford possible therapy, there are online sites to type like 7 cups of tea.
All of you are valid.
Both those in pain, or those whom have lost loved ones to pain.
You are valid, your feelings are valid.
Merely by existing each and every one of you are precious, and irreplaceable.
I deeply hope that each of you will be able to find the freedom from torment that you so truly deserve, I advise you to Google for help if you need, to scream at the stars “I AM WORTHY!” until the collapse upon your brilliance!
I made this account to speak up, because I have both lost someone I loved to the jaws of suicide, as well as formerly faced this pain myself, and I want to try and offer hope to both sides of this article. Even just once.
I may not check back, but please know – someone out there, she believes in each and every one of you.
I am 30 years old. And I survived the jaws of suicide.
Hi Odyssey. I saw your post through the “under moderation” option in my dashboard. I’m really not internet savy even though majority of my generation are. Well, I posted recently about this topic on selfish suicide. If medical science is to be believed today, there are numerous combinations of personality disorders that show symptoms of suicidal actions. There is one specific personality disorder called, “borderline disorder”. These patients are more susceptible to commit suicide in order to hurt or to send a message to their loved ones. Yet, not all suicidal patients are diagnosed with this disorder. Their agonies and their end goals are all different. Some have semi-delusional tendencies and they see the world very differently. To them, suicide can be the penultimate goal of “true” faith. You can check other personality disorders with major depressive disorder. You will see that there are numerous reasons, causes, end-goals, that suicidal patients and suicide victims feel and believe. You cannot generalize us all as selfish… I do empathize with how you feel as a relative of a suicide victim. What I ask of you, is to also empathize with your mother and uncle. Study why they committed suicide. Put yourself in their perspective too. Then, hopefully, with your perspective and theirs, you can form a truthful answer to your doubts on suicide victims.